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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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People who "steal" WiFi

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/394...z799vIG3EFLZA5

This seems bullshit to me, arrests have been made? Encrypt your damn network!! It seems to me if you leave your wireless signal open, you're just ASKING someone to share it.
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:10 PM
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I dont care is people use my wifi because I have more than enough bandwidth and only a couple neighbors close enough to use it.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:10 PM
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Right to airwaves... no charges can or will fly.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:12 PM
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Encrypting your network is still teh suk. If someone wants in bad enough they can get it.
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:12 PM
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that's fucking stupid....

i can understand how it would be a pain in the ass if someone was logging into your network and looking at other computers on that network, but not just to use the internet.

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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHornet
Encrypting your network is still teh suk. If someone wants in bad enough they can get it.
i know. veteran war driver here. i never intentionally maliciously harmed peoples networks, but changing passwords so they have to reset to default is fun
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHornet
Encrypting your network is still teh suk. If someone wants in bad enough they can get it.
you gonna hax my netwekz and watch my pr0n?

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:16 PM
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
you gonna hax my netwekz and watch my pr0n?
Ha! I don't know how to do that, plus, I have my own very nice collection of pr0n.
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
To steal, someone would have to take something to deny the use of it.
what ever happened with your network coding patent?
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
To steal, someone would have to take something to deny the use of it.
Judging by this definition, it's not theft since the owner isn't deprived of anything.


(7) "Steal" means to acquire property or service by
theft[0].


§ 31.03. THEFT[0]. (a) A person commits an offense if he
unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner
of property.
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:18 PM
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We rented a high rise condo in florida this summer on the beach. Our unit did not have wi-fi but about 6 units around us did, all unsecured. I used the hell out of them
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:19 PM
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What's the diff between that and FTA? They can't enforce on it.





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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:19 PM
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I don't see the problem..

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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:20 PM
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§ 33.02. BREACH OF COMPUTER[0] SECURITY. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person knowingly accesses a computer[0],
computer[0] network, or computer[0] system without the effective consent
of the owner.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor
unless in committing the offense the actor knowingly obtains a
benefit, defrauds or harms another, or alters, damages, or deletes
property, in which event the offense is:
(1) a Class A misdemeanor if the aggregate amount
involved is less than $1,500;
(2) a state jail felony if:
(A) the aggregate amount involved is $1,500 or
more but less than $20,000; or
(B) the aggregate amount involved is less than
$1,500 and the defendant has been previously convicted two or more
times of an offense under this chapter;
(3) a felony of the third degree if the aggregate
amount involved is $20,000 or more but less than $100,000;
(4) a felony of the second degree if the aggregate
amount involved is $100,000 or more but less than $200,000; or
(5) a felony of the first degree if the aggregate
amount involved is $200,000 or more.
(c) When benefits are obtained, a victim is defrauded or
harmed, or property is altered, damaged, or deleted in violation of
this section, whether or not in a single incident, the conduct may
be considered as one offense and the value of the benefits obtained
and of the losses incurred because of the fraud, harm, or
alteration, damage, or deletion of property may be aggregated in
determining the grade of the offense.
(d) A person who his subject to prosecution under this
section and any other section of this code may be prosecuted under
either or both sections.
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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHornet
Judging by this definition, it's not theft since the owner isn't deprived of anything.


(7) "Steal" means to acquire property or service by
theft[0].


§ 31.03. THEFT[0]. (a) A person commits an offense if he
unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner
of property.
Agree. If I use your yard to take a short cut, I didn't steal your grass.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
Agree. If I use your yard to take a short cut, I didn't steal your grass.
On the flip side, you may not have stolen my grass, but you committed a different offense. (Trespassing)


There's almost always something different to charge someone with.
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
Agree. If I use your yard to take a short cut, I didn't steal your grass.


no but that is trespassing



edit - damn you RedHornet you beat me to it

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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
Agree. If I use your yard to take a short cut, I didn't steal your grass.
lol. i cant believe you can get a class b misdemeanor just for browsing a couple web pages and checking some email. they left that shit open it's their fault! all wireless routers available have at least WEP or ASCII available to the person who purchased it. its like leaving your keys in your car, and its running at the gas station. youre asking to get jacked...
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:25 PM
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I have redhornets WEP key on my laptop at home.

If anyone in the carrollton area needs it, PM Me.

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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunt4m3x
I have redhornets WEP key on my laptop at home.

If anyone in the carrollton area needs it, PM Me.
I hate you.
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:32 PM
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If someone has their network left wide open via a wireless signal, I can see letting it slide. Read the damned instructions and put SOME measure of security in place. Otherwise it is like leaving a cat 5 cable in your front yard that is connected to one of your switchports.

If you have any encryption going and someone hacks it - I put that in the same category as breaking into my house to plug into one of my switchports.

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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:34 PM
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Any exemptions to that law? Like, maybe receiving the signal from your own home?
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Any exemptions to that law? Like, maybe receiving the signal from your own home?

No exemptions that i'm aware of. It could probably be used as a defense during trail, but that's obviously up to the jury to decide.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHornet
No exemptions that i'm aware of. It could probably be used as a defense during trail, but that's obviously up to the jury to decide.
That law reads like it was made before WiFi... Hmmm.

Just for the record, I know it was.
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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
That law reads like it was made before WiFi... Hmmm.

Just for the record, I know it was.
Yeah, Texas really needs to work on their computer laws. They're still in on the stone ages.
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:44 PM
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Sup i used my neighbors till they installed my cable modem. He was hogging the bandwidth so i hacked his router and limited his outbound speed.

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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:56 PM
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Sup i used my neighbors till they installed my cable modem. He was hogging the bandwidth so i hacked his router and limited his outbound speed.
lol.. now if you can just enlighten me on messing with mac tables and taking off the cap on my fios modem

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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbecX
Sup i used my neighbors till they installed my cable modem. He was hogging the bandwidth so i hacked his router and limited his outbound speed.
he was hogging the bandwidth on his own connection? LOL, thats funny
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt4m3x
I have redhornets WEP key on my laptop at home.

If anyone in the carrollton area needs it, PM Me.
PM SENT!

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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
lol.. now if you can just enlighten me on messing with mac tables and taking off the cap on my fios modem
The cap isn't the modem. It's limited by Verizon.
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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:27 PM
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It could be theft of service as well. Of course the actual monetary damage would be very low as most persons pay on a monthly basis no matter what the usage is.

As far as using an open wireless signal, as long as you do not damage, change, or "hack" a computer on the network, all should be good. That is just my opinion though.

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
It could be theft of service as well. Of course the actual monetary damage would be very low as most persons pay on a monthly basis no matter what the usage is.

As far as using an open wireless signal, as long as you do not damage, change, or "hack" a computer on the network, all should be good. That is just my opinion though.

Eric
Yes, it 'could' be theft of service. But in this case, Breach of Computer Security is a much better charge.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHornet
The cap isn't the modem. It's limited by Verizon.
hmm... my bro in law said it was (or used to be) capped by the mac tables in the modem. His buddy was able to uncap his junk when cable modem came out and had speeds everyone was jealous of

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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
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Sup i used my neighbors till they installed my cable modem. He was hogging the bandwidth so i hacked his router and limited his outbound speed.

Haha, When we got banned, I used phillips for bout 2 weeks. A month after, he went and got new equipment and setup wpa2

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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 06:33 PM
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I know where I am at I can get at least 2 other unsecured networks around me just sitting on my couch. You can literally drive to just about any apartment complex or decent neighborhood and find an open network. Some people are just that lazy or totally inept. Hell, you can even drive by Motels/Hotels and they usually have open networks as well.
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
hmm... my bro in law said it was (or used to be) capped by the mac tables in the modem. His buddy was able to uncap his junk when cable modem came out and had speeds everyone was jealous of
No, he wasn't. Not by that method anyways.
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 09:26 PM
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No, he wasn't. Not by that method anyways.
I remember reading about a tftp exploit that could be used to uncap your cable modem if it was a certain model. Of course, when your ISP found out about it (ya think ya might stand out with the network traffic you'd generate?) you were gone LOL.....
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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 10:32 PM
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Mac address filtering for me, shows to be open network also...just impossible password for the router...
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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 01:37 AM
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So is it also stealing when people drive by and look at my flowerbed? I paid money for those flowers, they didn't. I never said they could look!


IDK, but it seems the same as the post topic here
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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 01:50 AM
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So is it also stealing when people drive by and look at my flowerbed? I paid money for those flowers, they didn't. I never said they could look!


IDK, but it seems the same as the post topic here
If you didn't want your flowerbed to be seen from the street, you would have put it in your backyard.

It would be trespassing if they got out of their car and walked over to your flowerbed and smelled the roses. Picking a rose would be stealing.

There is a difference between firing up my laptop and SEEING that you had an unsecured wireless network and actually USING your wireless network.

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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 02:09 AM
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allrightythen

If there is no damage or illegal intent, doesn't there have to be a sign for it to be a tresspass?

BTW I live on a corner, my backyard CAN be seen from the street!

hey, I think that someone is outside either looking at the flowers or using my wifi
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
I remember reading about a tftp exploit that could be used to uncap your cable modem if it was a certain model. Of course, when your ISP found out about it (ya think ya might stand out with the network traffic you'd generate?) you were gone LOL.....
That was a LONG time ago in the @home days when they were the local provider. Back then you could also DHCP as many addresses as you wanted. Things changed about 1999 or 2000 so they capped your speeds upstream.

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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailman
allrightythen

If there is no damage or illegal intent, doesn't there have to be a sign for it to be a tresspass?

BTW I live on a corner, my backyard CAN be seen from the street!

hey, I think that someone is outside either looking at the flowers or using my wifi
Wow, you are comparing apples to oranges.

A better comparison....

Scenario 1: *Unsecure Wireless* You have a house and the front door is open. People can see the inside of the house from the street. Some just look, but a some people just walk into your house, drink your beer, charge their cell phones and fuck your wife.

Scenario 2: *Secure Wireless* You have a house and the front door is locked. People can see your house and 95% of the people just look at the door. The other 5% break into your house (aka hack), drink your beer, charge their cell phones and fuck your wife.

That covers the two basic scenarios from the 10000' level.

Another way to look at it....are you okay with random strangers walking into your house and plugging into your network? If not, there is no difference between using your wireless and plugging directly into your network. (At the consumer level typically)

I could go on, but if you get it you get it...if not....

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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 08:37 AM
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If you're going to compare it to house at least use a better analogy, its more like your home is residing in a business district, right smack dab around some other places. If you don't secure your setup, then how am I supposed to know you're not offering a free service? There is a ton of free WAP setups out there, if you don't want it to be free, then do the 5 minute setup of securing your shit to keep people like me out of it.

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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 09:07 AM
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Concur, see previous post prior to this one. I like my analogy better for the point I was trying to make with post 44. Big difference between looking at flowers and using someone else's network regardless if it is secure or not. Any idiot should be able to implement some sort of security. Looking at flowers is the same as looking at the SSID...nothing wrong with that. (Of course you can negate that as well by not allowing the SSID to be seen)

Two seperate issues. One is ethical IMO and the other is the standard stupid users being stupid users and crying about it. RTFM if you have to, but secure your stuff - I agree completely on that matter.

I guess my point of contention is for people who secure their shit, they should have legal recourse when they bust someone who hacked their crap. However, if people secured their shit these problems would be reduced drastically. From my experience 99.9% of the time it'll be easier/quicker for me to use a broadband card or run a cable for network/Internet access.

Then it'll go another level - users would actually have to log things, know how to log it, review logs and actually understand when a problem happened. User's are funny.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbecX
If you're going to compare it to house at least use a better analogy, its more like your home is residing in a business district, right smack dab around some other places. If you don't secure your setup, then how am I supposed to know you're not offering a free service? There is a ton of free WAP setups out there, if you don't want it to be free, then do the 5 minute setup of securing your shit to keep people like me out of it.
exactly
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 03:59 PM
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damn, i guess that i was stealing for the last year, until whoever it was moved out. I have been reborn though and now pay for my internet

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-09-2007, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
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If you're going to compare it to house at least use a better analogy, its more like your home is residing in a business district, right smack dab around some other places. If you don't secure your setup, then how am I supposed to know you're not offering a free service? There is a ton of free WAP setups out there, if you don't want it to be free, then do the 5 minute setup of securing your shit to keep people like me out of it.

When I went downtown for Jury Duty, my phones wifi picked up over 20 OPEN points that were connectable to surf the internet, and they listed like the Companys name. Hampton and Assco, etc.


I wonder would happen if someone arp attacked...

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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
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Mac address filtering for me, shows to be open network also...just impossible password for the router...
Bingo.

A MAC table (especially if you only have 1 or 2 computers TOTAL) are a nice way to lock down your network. Unless they spoof a MAC address of one of your machines (near impossible to do unless they come over and copy it down) or hack your network and disable MAC filtering and you dont notice, they cant get in. Even if they see an open network a "Limited Connectivity" error will come up and they will get a default 169.254....address

I made my father in-laws WPA key 12345678901234567890123456...no one is on when I check his DHCP Client Table...brute-force would destroy that WPA in 5 minutes...but it is in OK.....hicks.




IHaveAMustang is offline  
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