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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-03-2003, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting read on Secret Societies and New World Order

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chapter3/index.htm

Anyone want to read and discuss? Got more links. Go to http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com and check out some more.

After you've read, let me know. Im interested in discussing.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-07-2003, 10:29 AM
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hmmmmmmm, this site is VERY interesting. It's alot of reading but, it's weird because I've seen shifting of my views on how the One World Gov. or NWO will come about.

And the US is leading the charge. What's weird is that the US (eagle) isn't mentioned in Revelations.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-07-2003, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Yea. Its a LOT of reading. But, I took about 3 hours and really dug into it, including pulling the bible out and reading the corresponding links.

Digging into the FreeMasonry and Illuminati societies was really facinating also. Especially the streets and layout of the Whitehouse and surrounding blocks.

One thing that has really hit home, and had me wondering, was the part about us being put on earth as slaves.

Quote:
Taken from http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/yyz/index.htm
Who was God?


The word "God" does not always refer to any combination of the Holy Trinity as the church believing Christian community believes. The fact that Christ's Father wouldn't create and later control as noted before is proof of that.


In Eden "God" was comprised of two factions, one good and one evil as the book of Genesis reveals through the Adam & Eve story. The book of Job chapter 38 states that when the foundations of the earth were laid, "ALL the sons of God shouted for joy." "ALL" includes both good and evil.


Together both factions came to earth under mining operations as Sumerian clay tablets say. Work was difficult and they needed a solution to their hardships. So they created a slave to do their work for them.


Genesis 1:26;"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Then the suggestion was carried out: "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them." The suggestion originates from a plural entity that addresses a plural audience. And second, it would be evident that the quoted verse also explains why the Adam was created: "For there was no Adam to till the land." (work) These are two important --- and unsettling --- hints to who had created Man and why.


If the Hebrew bible, which is the ORIGINAL were to be studied, it would be discovered that the creative act is attributed to a certain ELOHIM - a plural term that at the least should be translated as "gods," not "God".


If one were to study ancient Sumerian texts, they would discover the Sumerian term that means Man is "LU". But its root meaning is not "human being"; it is "worker, servant". A slave. This is 100% correct because it coincides with the revelations brought forth in this article.


As long as the Adam accepted their slave status to the Elohim (which their nudity was a symbol of) they would remain dependent (Gen 2:9) and live in "paradise" forever. I use the word "paradise" in quotations here because it was and is no paradise.


Humans were often used as prostitutes for these Elohim (gods). Ancient Sumerian's depicted their gods as being fully clothed while humans were naked.


Later the two factions had an argument over the final destination of their creation. This conflict produced the Serpent faction. By spreading lies Satan took on the image of God and fooled the world. This is why his control system can be seen in Eden and is still in place today. Christians and many others are living those lies thinking the Serpent was Satan when all the combined evidence proves the reverse is true.
Some of the things on his site make curious, but some make me just want to shut him out, as I think he goes WAY out on a limb, such as one phrase on his site that basically says, "if after reading my site, and you still don't believe me, you are an anti-christ. " I don't like being told something like this from someone whom I don't know nor have any reason to trust his linkages to current events and biblical passages.

But, back to what I wanted to discuss of this passage:

Where we created as slaves? Even in the 2 diff bibles I have here, New World Translation and NIV version, both say in Genesis, that we were created to tend to the Garden of Eden. Essentially, we WERE created as slaves.

I can post passages if someone likes. Im too lazy to rush for my bible at the moment.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 07:06 AM
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I give everything some consideration so that I can make sure that I believe what I believe. Yes he went far to the left on some stuff. I found the Freemasonry and the Global Elitist stuff very interesting and I can believe that.

But he leaves alot of things unanswered when he tries to explain his theory on human beings orgins. For example: He offers no explanation as to where the Aliens came from, rather he chooses to assume that God was talking to a race of people when He said "let us make man in our image". But we know from other scriptures that there has always been The Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is the "us" spoken of.

I do agree that we are fighting a spiritual war the Bible tell us this. And I do agree that evil men, led by evil spirits are running this world. Everything is done under the guise of peace. God saw our future and revealed it to Daniel, John and others. Jesus spoke of it also. So these things (Revelations) will come to pass.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil

Where we created as slaves? Even in the 2 diff bibles I have here, New World Translation and NIV version, both say in Genesis, that we were created to tend to the Garden of Eden. Essentially, we WERE created as slaves.

Do you think so? God created a place for us to live in. (Eden) And because we were to take care of it makes us slaves? The Bible makes no reference that Adam or Eve had to "work" in the garden. They just ate of the goods that God provided them.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 07:59 AM
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also, God told Adam in the beginning to multiply and rule earth.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
Do you think so? God created a place for us to live in. (Eden) And because we were to take care of it makes us slaves? The Bible makes no reference that Adam or Eve had to "work" in the garden. They just ate of the goods that God provided them.
I agree with you here JC. God did not institute "work" until after the fall, when He said:
Quote:
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Now that is work. Before the fall I believe all Adam and Eve did was enjoy the things of God. They were by no means slaves. Even today we are not slaves to God.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 02:49 PM
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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ok. Heres some passages I'll use for my own curiosity, and to show some debatable proof.

Lets start at Genesis 2:4 - "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created."

So can we agree that at this point in Genesis, the writer is going into more detail about the previous chapter and verses? Seems like it to me, I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same path of thought.

Genesis 2:5-7 - When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Notice, that man was created only AFTER it was noted that there was no MAN available to till the ground. Also, it didn't say "God created the Earth, because Man had no place to till, or no place to live."

Looks like man was created to "Work the ground" to me. No other reason is given for creating man at this point. Of course, one could argue no reason was given for God creating shrubs and "planting" the Garden of E'den also. Perhaps God just finished reading the latest copy of "Martha Stewart" magazine and wanted to test His new ideas out?


Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

More evidence pointing towards "slavery".

Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Now, the LORD God has decided it would be nice if Adam had a helper to "work and take care of the Garden".

Genesis 2:19-20 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Hmmm. Quite a dilema. Not a single creature that had been created up until this point, had been found to be "suitable for working and taking care of the Garden".

Its also wierd seeing that Woman wasn't the FIRST option. The LORD God thought maybe one of the creatures he had ALREADY created could have been suitable. But none were found suitable in Adam's eyes, as he seemed to have been given the final say so in the matter.

Now, as imaginative as I am, I can think of some truly spectacular conversations that may have very well taken place during this "American Idol" interview process. I'll leave that for another post, as Im too busy laughing right now at the various thoughts, and would like to finish this post today.

Genesis 2:21-25
21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, '
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Well, there ya go boys and girls. More information all pointing that we were in fact created to be the Lord God's yard boy. But the LORD God was very generous and offered the fruit of almost EVERY single tree and plant, except for one, to be eaten as food, until Adam was satiated. (No longer hungry).

Its also interesting to note that the LORD God designed man's very first food choices to be carbohydrates, not meats. Or at least not until Noah comes along and has to replenish the earth. No longer do I need to question why our body burns carbs first, then fat. Looks like it was designed that way by the LORD God himself.

One thing I've noticed since I started investigating and researching the "left field" and alternate unpreached theories, is that its made me quite hungry for the Word of God, and I find myself reading the Bible daily now, questioning and reasoning out ideas in my head all the time. If anything, I can say its brought me closer to God than I have been in a very long time.

Funny how things can get started, or how very easy it can be for a lost sheep to find it's way home.....
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 10:31 PM
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I think you are confusing slave with servant.
Quote:
servant
One who is privately employed to perform domestic services.
One who is publicly employed to perform services, as for a government.
One who expresses submission, recognizance, or debt to another: your obedient servant.

slave
One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence.
One who works extremely hard.
A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.
Slaves have no choice in who they serve and usually get nothing in return for their work. Where servants usually get some type of compensation and can usually choose who to serve. God has called us to be servants. The New Testament states that Jesus came and took on the form of a servant, not a slave. He made the choice to serve God and got greatly rewarded.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
I think you are confusing slave with servant.

Slaves have no choice in who they serve and usually get nothing in return for their work. Where servants usually get some type of compensation and can usually choose who to serve.
Im not confusing it at all. Look at your own definitions you posted.

Where did it specify where Man was given a choice to whom he may serve? That didn't happen until post-AppleEating.

Where did you see that Man was compensated?
Even slaves are given food and shelter, for without food, the slave would simply die from starvation, and the Master would no longer have that slave.

Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
God has called us to be servants. The New Testament states that Jesus came and took on the form of a servant, not a slave. He made the choice to serve God and got greatly rewarded.
Im not saying that we are slaves today. The post was concerning our original creation. And so far, until the point of Man eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Man was a slave.

Notice that after Man and Woman ate from the tree, they both realized they were naked, and ashamed.

Genesis 3:5-7 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Now - beyond the fact that they "gained knowledge", how DID they know what naked was and meant? I would think then that God and the sons of God that frequented the Garden of E'den wore garments. How else would would they know that they were different from the only other beings they had seen? Also note that not one single animal in history ever ate from the tree of knowledge. Not a bird, snake, cow, squirrel, whatever. Only MAN ever did, and realized that he was a naked slave, and felt ashamed.

You can't argue that being naked is evil either. Otherwise, we are all guilty of sin at various times of the day for doing nothing more than being in our birthday suits. No, eating from the Tree of Knowledge symbolized much more. Being a slave wasn't a favorable societal position, and once their eyes were opened, they realized that they were in fact slaves, and felt very low in comparison to God, as they should have.

However, I'll start a new post with some other thoughts on that whole matter. Regardless, In my current way of thinking, I believe that when they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they actually did us a favor, setting us free, and giving us the ability to decide whom to worship, regardless of the physical consequences bestowed upon the human race after this event.

Im sure the work Adam did in the Garden, pre-AppleEating, was much less laboureous than physcial labor was afterwards.

But again, I DO NOT believe we are all slaves today. I believe there are a LOT of people that are slaves to Satan and his cause some unknowingly and some willingly. But as of this moment, and after doing some research, I do believe we were originally created on this planet as slaves, regardless of how cush the job may have been compared to our knowledge of slaves today.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2003, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil

Lets start at Genesis 2:4 - "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created."

So can we agree that at this point in Genesis, the writer is going into more detail about the previous chapter and verses? Seems like it to me, I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same path of thought.
Yes

Quote:
Genesis 2:5-7 - When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Notice, that man was created only AFTER it was noted that there was no MAN available to till the ground. Also, it didn't say "God created the Earth, because Man had no place to till, or no place to live."

Looks like man was created to "Work the ground" to me. No other reason is given for creating man at this point. Of course, one could argue no reason was given for God creating shrubs and "planting" the Garden of E'den also. Perhaps God just finished reading the latest copy of "Martha Stewart" magazine and wanted to test His new ideas out?


Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Like I stated earlier "work" is the operative word. What is your definition of it? God didn't put foliage all over the planet when he first made it because there was no man to till the land. God likes order. His work has a design to it. So my first point is: Would it make sense to make the planet start sprouting plants with no one to take care of the fields? So what did God do? He made Eden and placed man in it to dress it and to keep it. Again for the same reason he didn't grow Eden without a keeper was the same logic for not growing the whole planet without people everywhere. He put man where he put plants. Also there's your first ecosystem. So ask yourself. Did God benefit from Adam and Eve keeping the garden? Or did they benefit? Looks to me like the humans were the benefactors of their own work. So if anything they were slaves to themselves. So skip to Gen 3:17-And to the man he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree about which I commanded you, "You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life Here's the first reference to hard "work" while it is subtle it is enough to make a distinction. The Bible is like that. This is the difference. Man is now punished to work hard and the land is now cursed or rather not easy to work on. Back breaking work is now on our heads.


Quote:
Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Now, the LORD God has decided it would be nice if Adam had a helper to "work and take care of the Garden".

Genesis 2:19-20 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Hmmm. Quite a dilema. Not a single creature that had been created up until this point, had been found to be "suitable for working and taking care of the Garden".

Its also wierd seeing that Woman wasn't the FIRST option. The LORD God thought maybe one of the creatures he had ALREADY created could have been suitable. But none were found suitable in Adam's eyes, as he seemed to have been given the final say so in the matter.

Now, as imaginative as I am, I can think of some truly spectacular conversations that may have very well taken place during this "American Idol" interview process. I'll leave that for another post, as Im too busy laughing right now at the various thoughts, and would like to finish this post today.
Now c'mon Shane, you know why God created Woman All the animals had mates except Adam. That wasn't fair. Can't you imagine Adam lying up at night watching the monkeys have sex and he's like hey God, can I get a hook up?


Genesis 2:21-25
Quote:
Well, there ya go boys and girls. More information all pointing that we were in fact created to be the Lord God's yard boy.
I hope the points I've given you will stick also. I don't get hung up one point of view. The stance I have taken is only after consideration of the facts and the wordage.
Quote:
Its also interesting to note that the LORD God designed man's very first food choices to be carbohydrates, not meats. Or at least not until Noah comes along and has to replenish the earth. No longer do I need to question why our body burns carbs first, then fat. Looks like it was designed that way by the LORD God himself.
No argument with that
Quote:
One thing I've noticed since I started investigating and researching the "left field" and alternate unpreached theories, is that its made me quite hungry for the Word of God, and I find myself reading the Bible daily now, questioning and reasoning out ideas in my head all the time. If anything, I can say its brought me closer to God than I have been in a very long time.

Funny how things can get started, or how very easy it can be for a lost sheep to find it's way home.....
Congratulations just keep reading and asking the hard questions

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2003, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil
Im not confusing it at all. Look at your own definitions you posted.

Where did it specify where Man was given a choice to whom he may serve? That didn't happen until post-AppleEating.
But he did have a choice and he made a choice. Before he ate the fruit he had a choice to serve either the Spirit or the flesh. He chose the flesh. When you are given a choice you are not a slave. Man was created with a free will and the right to choose between right and wrong.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil
Where did you see that Man was compensated?
Even slaves are given food and shelter, for without food, the slave would simply die from starvation, and the Master would no longer have that slave.
His compensation was having dominion over the land, sea, and air. Gen 1:28

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil
Regardless, In my current way of thinking, I believe that when they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they actually did us a favor, setting us free, and giving us the ability to decide whom to worship, regardless of the physical consequences bestowed upon the human race after this event.
That is a pretty bold statement since God says Adam sinned. Rom 5:14 but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even on those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression... God said it was a sin and Satan said that Adam and Eve would be doing themselves a favor by eating the fruit.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil
But again, I DO NOT believe we are all slaves today. I believe there are a LOT of people that are slaves to Satan and his cause some unknowingly and some willingly.
I agree.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2003, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog


That is a pretty bold statement since God says Adam sinned. Rom 5:14 but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even on those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression... God said it was a sin and Satan said that Adam and Eve would be doing themselves a favor by eating the fruit.
I agree.
Yes, Adam biteing into the forbidden fruit only brought death too us and eternal death if it wasnt for Jesus Christ. A statement saying that Adam did us a favor by biteing into the forbidden fruit did us a favor is like saying wishing death on someone is a favor.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2003, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
Yes

Like I stated earlier "work" is the operative word. What is your definition of it? God didn't put foliage all over the planet when he first made it because there was no man to till the land. God likes order. His work has a design to it. So my first point is: Would it make sense to make the planet start sprouting plants with no one to take care of the fields? So what did God do? He made Eden and placed man in it to dress it and to keep it. Again for the same reason he didn't grow Eden without a keeper was the same logic for not growing the whole planet without people everywhere. He put man where he put plants. Also there's your first ecosystem. So ask yourself. Did God benefit from Adam and Eve keeping the garden? Or did they benefit? Looks to me like the humans were the benefactors of their own work. So if anything they were slaves to themselves. So skip to Gen 3:17-And to the man he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree about which I commanded you, "You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life Here's the first reference to hard "work" while it is subtle it is enough to make a distinction. The Bible is like that. This is the difference. Man is now punished to work hard and the land is now cursed or rather not easy to work on. Back breaking work is now on our heads.


Now c'mon Shane, you know why God created Woman All the animals had mates except Adam. That wasn't fair. Can't you imagine Adam lying up at night watching the monkeys have sex and he's like hey God, can I get a hook up?


Genesis 2:21-25
I hope the points I've given you will stick also. I don't get hung up one point of view. The stance I have taken is only after consideration of the facts and the wordage.
No argument with that
Congratulations just keep reading and asking the hard questions
This isn't neccassarily a point of view that Im hard pressed into believing, the above that I posted, that is. I spend a lot of time reading other's theories, and I like making people think for themselves, and actually READING and digging in to the material, rather than repeating the same dribble they have been taught day in and day out at church, after its been comprehended and dispensed by their minster or bible school teacher.

Jac and I discuss these things too, and its nice to make her have to dig in to the bible, rather than spurting off stuff she believes, simply because everybody else believes it and thats what she's been taught.

Certainly, I know why Woman was created. But it was interesting to see that Woman was not God's first choice in giving man a helper. Im sure he already knew what we were getting into by having a woman around, aside from the sex side. Although its nice to see Adam chose the woman, and not Dolly the Sheep, like some members on this board would have chosen.

Moondog - yes. Its a pretty bold statement. Right now, Im considering some other theories that say that Satan actually swapped places with God in Eden, and this was one of the biggest and earliest lies in Mans history. I'll take the time to post up links and reading for it, and debate that with you guys. Im not totally sold on it, but it certainly makes sense, both logically and biblically. Again, some of these things are hard to accept to us because WE have been taught to read into the bible whats been handed down to us, from generation to generation, for centuries. Thinking outside the norm from what the masses thinks have gotten many people killed throughout history, even when they were correct, and the church and government was wrong.

And my statement was based upon my current consideration of that theory. If that theory is infact correct, then my statement holds true. If not, The Big Guy will smack me in the mouth and tell me to hush it up. I'll deal with it. God knows where I stand with him, and also knows what Im thinking and considering and researching. He'll make the truth known to me.

But regardless, no matter what, its all the same right now. Believe in Jesus, that he was the Son of God, and that he died so that he could wash away our sins. Repent and do your best to walk with Jesus.

No matter the actual turn out of the alternate theories at this point, the above still holds true and is what is most important right now.

Im mostly curious as to what God did before us? What makes God laugh? What did the sons of God do for entertainment? Did they order out too? Was Popeye's Chicken a Divine inspiration and a regularly ordered dish for our Divine Hosts?

All the normal stuff. Im my intervew at 24 hour fitness, the manager asked me, what person , either alive today , or from history past, would you want to meet and talk to, and why?

I said, "Jesus. I wanna talk to the most contraversial man on the face of this earth. I wanna ask him all kinds of stuff." I went into some specifics, but he probably thought I was a nutcase after that. But he still gave me the job.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2003, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Yes, Adam biteing into the forbidden fruit only brought death too us and eternal death if it wasnt for Jesus Christ.
Adam and Eve had yet to eat from the Tree of Life. They hadn't become Immortal yet. Unless Im missing something that told them not to eat from this tree either.

So, speculation would say that until Adam ate from this tree, he would have died regardless. Unless God stepped in to intervene OR Adam ate from the tree of life.

But I don't think he could have comprehended the effects from eating from the Tree of Life until AFTER he had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. I could be wrong tho. There's certainly no proof either way. If there is, please enlighten me.

My followers outside are ready to drink from the bowl of poison and await the great mothership that will take us to Gods Cavern in Space. Hurry earthlings, or their blood shall be on your hands.
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