Have some of the Bible prophecies been fulfilled? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Have some of the Bible prophecies been fulfilled?

I think Revelations 8: 10-11 has-The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the fountains of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the water, because it was made bitter.


What do you think it was?

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 12:42 PM
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Chernobyl - "wormwood" in russian.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 02:14 PM
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JC, seriously lets set up a night for all who want to discuss Rev. and such get together.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 02:56 PM
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Mike makes a good point but I don't think that this is something that has happened yet. What excactly is it? I dont know, but I tend to think that it might be some type of missle or rocket carrying chemical warfare that is launched, aimed at ruining the earths water supply. Just a thought.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally posted by MoonDog
Mike makes a good point but I don't think that this is something that has happened yet. What excactly is it? I dont know, but I tend to think that it might be some type of missle or rocket carrying chemical warfare that is launched, aimed at ruining the earths water supply. Just a thought.
Mike was right. It was Chernobyl.


281R-I'm down for a prophecy study.

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2003, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Red Heifer

Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed. "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence. Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times. "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned. "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."

There have been two red heifers that have been born. They were both found to be unkosher. But what is curious is there was none born for 2000 years. (The first for 2k years was in 1997) hmmmmmmmm

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-13-2003, 02:17 AM
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Red Heifer

Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed. "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence. Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times. "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned. "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."

There have been two red heifers that have been born. They were both found to be unkosher. But what is curious is there was none born for 2000 years. (The first for 2k years was in 1997) hmmmmmmmm
Is there a Priest Eleazar? If not, I guess we're peachy, because without him ... the prophecy can't be fulfilled even if a pure unblemished Red Heifer is born

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-13-2003, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Is there a Priest Eleazar? If not, I guess we're peachy, because without him ... the prophecy can't be fulfilled even if a pure unblemished Red Heifer is born
No. A simple High Preist meeting the requirements set forth by God at the end of Exodus shall suffice.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-14-2003, 01:08 AM
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No. A simple High Preist meeting the requirements set forth by God at the end of Exodus shall suffice.
Except that this prophecy is specific by giving a name. That's why most prophecies are made as vague as possible, so they can be applied to potentially anything. By giving something as specific as a name, that's suggesting that the only way this prophecy can be fulfilled, is if the Red Heifer is brought to the Priest Eleazar.

Had there not been a name given, then yes, any High Priest that meets the requirements could perform the act.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-14-2003, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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No, Jay that is not the case. Eleazar was simply the Son of Aaron the original High Priest. Eleazar soon took his father's position as high priest. God was being specific because he was speaking in present tense to Moses giving him instructions. Eleazar was the high priest at the time.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-15-2003, 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by Monsoon X
No, Jay that is not the case. Eleazar was simply the Son of Aaron the original High Priest. Eleazar soon took his father's position as high priest. God was being specific because he was speaking in present tense to Moses giving him instructions. Eleazar was the high priest at the time.
Ok ... maybe I'm missing something here, but was a Red Heifer brought to Eleazar when he was alive?

If not, then this is a prophecy that was not fulfilled, and because God specifically said the cow is to be brought to Eleazar ... until there is another Priest named Eleazar, and a Red Heifer is born as well ... this prophecy cannot be fulfilled.

I mean ... it's pretty specific. It doesn't say "the cow is to be brought to Eleazar ... or if Eleazar isn't available ... ie: If I decide not to let a Red Heifer be born for 2000 or so years ... any High Priest meeting the requirments will suffice."

You can't simply choose what information in the Bible is to be taken literally, and what is to be taken figuratively based on convenience. For instance, some of you feel the account of creation is to be taken litterally as 6 days on Earth. But it's vague enough, that it could represent 6 days to God ... which translates into 15 billion Earth years. It doesn't affect the account of creation one way or the other ... it just gives rise to the debate of whether or not the Earth is old or young.

Yet, when presented with a no nonsense, specific prophecy, including names, and events ... it's not meant to be taken literally? By suggesting that any high priest meeting the requirements will suffice, when the prophecy specifically says the cow is to be brought to Eleazar ... that's essentially suggesting that God gave an innacurate prophecy. Why would God give an innacurate prophecy, when he can make the prophecy be fulfilled exactly as he had laid out (ie: a red cow, and a priest named Eleazar are alive and well at the same time)?

That just doesn't make any sense to me.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-15-2003, 09:55 AM
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Nine red heifers have been performed (through burning etc.) from the time the Jews were given order (Numbers 19:2), until the destruction of the Second Holy Temple around 70 AD. The first heifer was performed by Moses (i.e. he directed its burning etc., whereas the actual performance was done by Eleazar). The second one was performed by Ezra. And there were another seven red heifers performed from Ezra until the destruction of the temple. It is believed the 10th red heifer will be performed by the Messiah. That is why it is of much importance everytime a red heifer is born because is signals the coming of Jesus Christ.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-15-2003, 02:12 PM
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Ahhh, ok.

Now ... does the Bible make reference to these 9 cows, and that they were sacrificed by various priests (one being Eleazar)... or is this just how things happened, but it wasn't commanded by the Bible, the Church just assumed God wanted priests to slaughter red cows for the rest of time?

I mean, I know what the significance of the red cow is, but what I'm unclear on is if only the Eleazar one was mentioned in the Bible or not.

Also, I have to wonder ... if the last was done after Jesus died, thus sealing the new covenant (ie: no more sacrifice) ... why is it believed that the red cow an exception to that rule?

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-16-2003, 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by DarkWolf
Ahhh, ok.

Now ... does the Bible make reference to these 9 cows, and that they were sacrificed by various priests (one being Eleazar)... or is this just how things happened, but it wasn't commanded by the Bible, the Church just assumed God wanted priests to slaughter red cows for the rest of time?

I mean, I know what the significance of the red cow is, but what I'm unclear on is if only the Eleazar one was mentioned in the Bible or not.

It was a law given by God that it be performed by the high priest of the time. Therefore,

Also, I have to wonder ... if the last was done after Jesus died, thus sealing the new covenant (ie: no more sacrifice) ... why is it believed that the red cow an exception to that rule?
This was a law given by God that the high priest at the time carrys it out. And from what I have been able to find out, the bible only speaks on a red heifer that one time in regards to who is to sacrifice it. The rest, I think, is Jewish tradition.

The reason there is an "exception" here is because the Jews do not believe that the Messiah came the first time, and it is also a divine sign that work can begin on building the Third Temple in Jerusalem. According to prophecy, it is this newly built temple that is defiled by the anti-christ in the middle of tribulation period, refered to as the 'abomination of desolation'.

My take is this, all these things going on in the world right now could/might be a fulfilment of prophecy. But the return of Jesus will not be until the abomination of desolation occurs.

Jesus said this:
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Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is the one thing I am watching out for, so yes, the red heifer is important, because the temple will be rebuilt, the same temple that the anti-christ sets up shop in.

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-16-2003, 02:55 PM
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Ok, gotcha. So the sacrifice is not kosher with God. Now that would make sense, and stay in line with new testament.

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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-17-2003, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I should've laid everything out before I posted this.

I'm not implying that the red heifer is a "prophecy". Orthodox Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as the messiah. They want to rebuild the temple but this cannot be done until the people have gone through a mass cleansing. This is why "they" are waiting for a Kosher red heifer. So they can spread the ashes.

I put it in here because the anti-christ is supposed to stand in the temple and stop the animal sacrifices that will have been resumed by the Jews and set himself up as god.

So watching for a red heifer is important when watching for endtime signs. It will signal that the temple will more than likely begin to be rebuilt.

I dunno. Sounds good.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 02:57 AM
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Yeah, gotta help a heathen out every now and then

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 01:52 PM
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Religious zealotry over stupid WATCH THE LANGUAGE JR.!like red cows is going to end the world for all of us. Here's one way to look at it.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 02:51 PM
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Religious zealotry over stupid CRAP like red cows is going to end the world for all of us. Here's one way to look at it.
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And Danny, its not the stupid red cow that will end the world, it will be the end of the anti-christ and his followers. Those that stand true to the things of God will rule along side of Jesus on a new earth. The world and society as we know it will be gone but htere will be a new Heaven and a new Earth. So, as long as you are right with God then you really have nothing to worry about.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2003, 11:33 PM
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The thing i'm watching for is the rebuilding of the 3rd temple. There are already plans for it and they actually have the cornerstone ready for placement.

Since the AOD has to occur in that temple it must first exist, and the red heifer is a part of the purification of the new temple. It all fits together.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 07:43 AM
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The thing i'm watching for is the rebuilding of the 3rd temple. There are already plans for it and they actually have the cornerstone ready for placement.
Why do they WANT the world to end? Is it because they want Christ to return...or is it just an easy out? A possible way to get out of their miserable lives. I don't want the world, even as it is, to end yet.

But then again, unlike many Christians who hope He comes tomorrow, I am happy with what He's already given me and don't mind waiting it out like all the people got to do before me. How is that fair? Am I selfish for wanting to see my daughter grow up? Because hey, whether I repent or not, there's never a 100% guarantee I'm ganna make it into Heaven, I'd like to get my chance in while I can.
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i know this is way off topic, but if there were to be a gtg to discuss these types of issues, where and when? i'm anyting but christian (raised in a jewish household), but i want to learn what you (being christians) are talking about, because i know i can't make any educated comments or opinions untill then...i dont wanna be converted or anything, i hardly practice as it is, but i want to learn. lemee know when and where, and i'll try and be there.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 08:30 AM
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i know this is way off topic, but if there were to be a gtg to discuss these types of issues, where and when? i'm anyting but christian (raised in a jewish household), but i want to learn what you (being christians) are talking about, because i know i can't make any educated comments or opinions untill then...i dont wanna be converted or anything, i hardly practice as it is, but i want to learn. lemee know when and where, and i'll try and be there.
That's awesome. I love people with open minds.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 08:46 AM
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i know this is way off topic, but if there were to be a gtg to discuss these types of issues, where and when? i'm anyting but christian (raised in a jewish household), but i want to learn what you (being christians) are talking about, because i know i can't make any educated comments or opinions untill then...i dont wanna be converted or anything, i hardly practice as it is, but i want to learn. lemee know when and where, and i'll try and be there.
Come and join us in watching the videos JC is getting in. Us Jews and Christians have the same background but one major difference. And I have even met a lot of Jews that are Christian but dont go by that name. More as "Jews for Jesus" and "Apple in His Eye". Look forward to meeting you
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 09:13 AM
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That's awesome. I love people with open minds.
thnx nicole, i've always been pretty open to stuff like that, i had some BS happen to me back in the day in Jr High regarding my religion, and since then i have always wondered what was going on inside everyone elses head that made them tick...

also, i have never liked the idea of a religion where someone interprets the book of beleifs to me, and tells me how to take it. I have always been the one who will read it himself, and then make opinions accordingly, which is why organized religion has never appealed to me. When i studied the Torah for my Bar Mitzvah, i started understanding what they meant when it was written and i liked being able to take what i wanted out of context and take it how I wanted to.

sorry to rant, i guess the only thing i really need to know again, is where and when? i'll try and make it, but a college student with a 30hr job doesnt leave much time for fun. Lemee know whats up tho, i'm down for a little god squad//wrenching on an LS1 (right JC)
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 03:04 PM
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Why do they WANT the world to end? Is it because they want Christ to return...or is it just an easy out? A possible way to get out of their miserable lives. I don't want the world, even as it is, to end yet.
No one (around here anyway) really wants the world to end Nic. Actually the world wont end it will just become new and the society that we live in will become totally different. And yes, it is the return of Christ that we look forward to and not the "end of the world".

Quote:
Originally posted by Girls can too But then again, unlike many Christians who hope He comes tomorrow, I am happy with what He's already given me and don't mind waiting it out like all the people got to do before me. How is that fair? Am I selfish for wanting to see my daughter grow up? Because hey, whether I repent or not, there's never a 100% guarantee I'm ganna make it into Heaven, I'd like to get my chance in while I can.
I understand everything you are saying here. I hope that I live long enough to see both of my daughters grow up and get married and have kids of their own. I dont think it is selfish at all.

As far as the hope He comes tomorrow quote, I am not sure that I have really thought about it like that. Do I hope He comes tomorrow? I dont know. I look forward to His return and beleive that He will one day, but I know that God has plans for myself and my family. So I dont sit around and hope that He comes today or tomorrow. When He comes, He comes.

I only have to disagree with one comment you made though. There is a 100% guarantee that you will be in the presence of God when you repent of your sins and accept Christ.
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No one (around here anyway) really wants the world to end Nic. Actually the world wont end it will just become new and the society that we live in will become totally different. And yes, it is the return of Christ that we look forward to and not the "end of the world".



I understand everything you are saying here. I hope that I live long enough to see both of my daughters grow up and get married and have kids of their own. I dont think it is selfish at all.

As far as the hope He comes tomorrow quote, I am not sure that I have really thought about it like that. Do I hope He comes tomorrow? I dont know. I look forward to His return and beleive that He will one day, but I know that God has plans for myself and my family. So I dont sit around and hope that He comes today or tomorrow. When He comes, He comes.

I only have to disagree with one comment you made though. There is a 100% guarantee that you will be in the presence of God when you repent of your sins and accept Christ.
but I think if He did come tomorrow, no Christian would regret it.

And yes, if you have accepted Christ into your heart, you are born again and you are guaranted a place in Heaven, so says God in His word

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-19-2003, 12:00 AM
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Thanks to you both for the good words. I usually believe that but lately it's been hard to see a good ending. I beat myself up for the most mundane things and let the haters get to me. I just need to come in here more often to pump myself back up, remind myself who I really am, and regain strength. It's very uplifting in here. I don't know why I stay away so long. Thanks! Nic
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-19-2003, 08:50 AM
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Thanks to you both for the good words. I usually believe that but lately it's been hard to see a good ending. I beat myself up for the most mundane things and let the haters get to me. I just need to come in here more often to pump myself back up, remind myself who I really am, and regain strength. It's very uplifting in here. I don't know why I stay away so long. Thanks! Nic
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