Revelation 9:13-16 Thoughts? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2003, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Revelation 9:13-16 Thoughts?

13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four F29 horns of the golden altar before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 So the four angels were released, who had been held ready for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, to kill a third of humankind


1) Consider the location of Iraq
2) Consider the other nations having turmoil with each other (China and Taiwan)
3) Korea is trippin.

What are your thoughts?
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2003, 03:51 PM
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hmmm, I dunno
Revelation has always been a confusing book to me
I'll think on it

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2003, 04:30 PM
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Here is the whole chapter for ref:

Revelation 9

1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
7The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. 11They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.[1]
12The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
13The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns[2] of the golden altar that is before God. 14It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.
17The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.
20The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-30-2003, 07:34 AM
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Reading that always gives me chills. I really do believe we are in the last "hours".
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-30-2003, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. If we are truly upon the war that will kill a 3rd of mankind it'll need to be a big war.

1)Iraq is built around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. They "allegedly" have weapons of mass destruction and Sadamm will use them

2) N. Korea is trippin

3) China wants Taiwan

4) Turkey and India are mad at each other

5) Will Bush strike w/o the UNs approval?

One thing is gonna set off another.

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 03:55 PM
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Q: Why does God have to speak in riddles




A: He doesn't. Men write in riddles so that 'revelations' can be nice and vague and still be considered valid!

People will die, it will be terrible. But it won't be anything like this..
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19The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.
You fellas just let me know if you find a horse whose tail has a dangerous snake head on it and I'll be sure to retract the above statement.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 04:32 PM
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Believe it or not. It will come true. Now it might be over your head..... But it takes Biblical study to understand these matters, but it will come true. In fact it is already in the happening.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by 281R
Believe it or not. It will come true. Now it might be over your head..... But it takes Biblical study to understand these matters, but it will come true. In fact it is already in the happening.
I'm calling BS. Revelations was a dream. We're not in the "end times" People have been preaching "the end is near" for years ... much longer than either of us has graced the face of this planet. People were preaching the "end times" hundreds of years ago. Why? Because situations appeared to reflect Revelations They were wrong then, and they're wrong now.

And even if we are in the "end times" ... what's the point in worrying about it, and trying to figure out when it's all going to end?

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 06:31 PM
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And even if we are in the "end times" ... what's the point in worrying about it, and trying to figure out when it's all going to end?
Well, the only point I could see worrying is if your not saved. Otherwise, no worries here about myself but I do worry for others. You can take Revelations how every you want, but it does not make it any less true.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Well, the only point I could see worrying is if your not saved. Otherwise, no worries here about myself but I do worry for others. You can take Revelations how every you want, but it does not make it any less true.
No worries here either

And the same can be said about it not being any more true.

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-31-2003, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
I'm calling BS. Revelations was a dream. We're not in the "end times"
This is just your opinion Jay. I can say that you are dreaming when you say you hear from God and have your out of body experiences or whatever you do. It would be my opinion. I have not experienced what you have just like you did not experience what John did when he wrote the book of Revelation, so I cant say whether what you experience it real or not. John said that he was "in the Spirit". He did not say "as I was dreaming last night". So you can't really sit there and say that it is a fact that he was dreaming. You just choose to believe that he was.

Even though I believe that we are at least near the end times, I dont think the time is right yet for the events in Revelation to unfold. I think that we will know beyond a shadow of doubt that the end is near without any guess work and reading into current events to fit scripture.

This is just my opinion though guys, it has been a while since I have studied Revelation. Maybe it is time to go back through and re-read it.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2003, 01:04 AM
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It is my opinion, but it's also an opinion shared by other religious scholars.

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2003, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
It is my opinion, but it's also an opinion shared by other religious scholars.
I understand that, I dont mean to start an argument about it, I know there are many who believe that way. But in my opinion there are many, many more that believe otherwise.

Lets say he was dreaming, who is to say that God can't give us dreams to show us things that will or may happen in the future? With the limited technology that was around 2000 years ago, John discribed the things he saw (whether dreaming or not) the best that he could. Thus, it would seem that he was speaking in riddles.

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2003, 02:32 PM
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I'm not saying that's not possible. I've had many dreams that months, even years later, the exact events unfold. It's pretty freaky when you're doing, or watching something, and realize you dreamt the exact thing. But that's neither here nor there.

I wasn't starting an argument either, just pointing out that fact. However, I find it interesting, that every other "prophecy" in the Bible, is written clearly, and concisely, in understandable language. There's no metaphors, or riddles, or vague images of what will come to pass. Except for Revelations. It's the only "prophecy" that's written in this fashion.

Maybe it's the fact that every other "prophecy" in the Bible, is both prophecised, and fulfilled within the Bible, while Revelations is the only "prophecy" that has not yet been fulfilled. But that still doesn't explain why all the other "prophecies" are written in the method that they were spoken (according to the Bible) ... in no uncertain metaphors, or riddles.

Revelations, to me, is very similar to the "prophecies" of Nostradamus. Just vague enough as to be applicable to any number of events that may or may not happen.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2003, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
I'm not saying that's not possible. I've had many dreams that months, even years later, the exact events unfold. It's pretty freaky when you're doing, or watching something, and realize you dreamt the exact thing. But that's neither here nor there.

I wasn't starting an argument either, just pointing out that fact. However, I find it interesting, that every other "prophecy" in the Bible, is written clearly, and concisely, in understandable language. There's no metaphors, or riddles, or vague images of what will come to pass. Except for Revelations. It's the only "prophecy" that's written in this fashion.

Maybe it's the fact that every other "prophecy" in the Bible, is both prophecised, and fulfilled within the Bible, while Revelations is the only "prophecy" that has not yet been fulfilled. But that still doesn't explain why all the other "prophecies" are written in the method that they were spoken (according to the Bible) ... in no uncertain metaphors, or riddles.

Revelations, to me, is very similar to the "prophecies" of Nostradamus. Just vague enough as to be applicable to any number of events that may or may not happen.
How is John supposed to discribe a Cobra Helicopter firing missiles if he had never seen anything fly before? Maybe to him it looked like a giant dragonfly that breathed fire. 2000 years ago they did not have the same things we do today. What is discribed as a fire from Heaven could in reality be missiles being launched from different countries.

It is very difficult to translate Revelations because we really dont know what John saw, we can only speculate. One this is for sure, when the events in Revelation do come to pass, it wont be pretty.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2003, 10:02 PM
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I can add a couple of interesting tidbits to this.

1. There has been a dam constructed across the Euphrates. It is now possible to completely stop the river to allow an army to cross. The flow of the river was completely stopped already once for some reason or another.

2. One of the past chinese leaders (I think it was Mao) boasted that he could field a 200M man army.

Interesting times, indeed.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2003, 11:48 PM
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Anyone here a preterist view of eschatology? If so I have a few quetions.

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone here a preterist view of eschatology? If so I have a few quetions.
I don't think anyone on here does.

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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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The Book of Revelations isn't vague if you know how to read it.

Once you understand what the code is and how to tie it in to the Book of Daniel you can figure out what's happening.

For example-

We have already experienced the third trumpet blast of Rev. 8:10-11

Any guesses as to what it is?

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2003, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Monsoon X
The Book of Revelations isn't vague if you know how to read it.

Once you understand what the code is and how to tie it in to the Book of Daniel you can figure out what's happening.

For example-

We have already experienced the third trumpet blast of Rev. 8:10-11

Any guesses as to what it is?
Chernobyl - "wormwood"
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2003, 09:36 AM
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Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Why are the prophecies vague/riddled? I think He is in control of our understanding. We're not meant to know the fullness of His kingdom. We're not supposed to know the time of His return. As we open our hearts to Him, I believe that He reveals His messge to us in accordance to His will. He instills a sense of urgency in the hearts of man. The idea that He may return today, tomorrow carries the message, that one should not wait to return to Him. I also agree with MoonDog in the sense that John was putting his vision into terms that he could understand. If we go back to the bible, as Jesus was fulfilling prophecy day by day, those prophecies were still misunderstood, except by those who believed in and loved Him.

Back to the original topic:
I do think we are on the verge of the sixth trumpet. We have alot of work to do.

John 16:33
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; for I have overcome the world."

So when is the next Poltics and Religion: Israel Trip?
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2003, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
The Book of Revelations isn't vague if you know how to read it.

Once you understand what the code is and how to tie it in to the Book of Daniel you can figure out what's happening.

For example-

We have already experienced the third trumpet blast of Rev. 8:10-11

Any guesses as to what it is?
I am not so sure about that JC. The trumpets take place after the seventh seal of the scroll is opened. Which would mean that the other six seals have already been opened also.

The first seal is the anti-christ that makes war with the saints. Last I checked, the anti-christ is not in power yet and not making war.

Rev. 6:7 says that the day of Gods wrath has come and who is able to stand. I do not believe that we are in the middle of Gods wrath. Also, in Rev. 7 it speaks of a great multitude seen in heaven that are those that came out of great tribulation, and have washed robes, and been made white in the blood of the Lamb. These are those that have been raptured before the great and terrible day of Gods wrath.

We will be around for the opening of the first six seals but be ratured just before the opening of the seventh which begins in chapter 8.
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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First of all Rev. isn't in cronological order. If you look closer you'll find out that the Seals, Trumpets, Vials happen during the same times. Compare the stories of the 6th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial, they are all one in the same.

"The Seals are the long story of God ending at Armageddon, the Trumpets are a short-story and the vials are an even shorter story."

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Monsoon X
First of all Rev. isn't in cronological order. If you look closer you'll find out that the Seals, Trumpets, Vials happen during the same times. Compare the stories of the 6th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial, they are all one in the same.

"The Seals are the long story of God ending at Armageddon, the Trumpets are a short-story and the vials are an even shorter story."
I relize that parts of Revelation are not in order. But when it comes to the seals, it is. You can't have the seventh seal opened before the other six seals opened, and the trumpets and vials come after the seventh seal has been opened. The trumpets and vials are Gods wrath. How can you say that the seventh seal is already opened and we are enduring Gods wrath?

Read Matthew 24:5-30 and read Revelation 6 and 7. The deciples asked Jesus what would be a sign for the end of this age and a sign for his second coming. What He said lines right up with the first 6 seals of Revelation. After this will be Gods wrath on an unbelieving world.

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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I relize that parts of Revelation are not in order. But when it comes to the seals, it is. You can't have the seventh seal opened before the other six seals opened, and the trumpets and vials come after the seventh seal has been opened.
The only thing that happened when the 7th seal was opened was a silence in heaven for about 30minutes.

Compare the 7th trump and the 7th bowl with the events in the 6th seal. They are the same.

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
The only thing that happened when the 7th seal was opened was a silence in heaven for about 30minutes.

Compare the 7th trump and the 7th bowl with the events in the 6th seal. They are the same.
Quote:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
This verse is inbetween the 6th seal and the 7th seal. It states that God's wrath is about to begin with the opening of the 7th seal.

This silence before God shows that those who were round about him were expecting, with the deepest reverence, the great things which the Divine Majesty would farther open and order. Silence is only a preparation for what is to come.

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
This verse is inbetween the 6th seal and the 7th seal. It states that God's wrath is about to begin with the opening of the 7th seal.

No. I feel that this is associated with the people who were crying to the rocks in v. 15-16

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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2003, 04:21 PM
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The truth about Chernobyl

Most of this was taken from www.jvim.com .

An independent Russian investigation of the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown has found that the accident will have long-term catastrophic consequences for the Ukraine.

So serious are the effects of the radiation leakage at the power plant, the experts suggest, that the history of mankind is being divided into two epochs -- before Chernobyl and after.

Indeed, what happened on April 26, 1986, was a disaster of unprecedented proportions. When the reactor surged out of control, a steam explosion pierced the roof. Without coolant, 150 tons of uranium fuel quickly melted into lava and filled the basement of the plant. A hydrogen explosion ignited blocks of graphite, shooting a plume of radioactive material a mile into the sky. The 2 million pound concrete lid of the reactor was blown into the air. The ensuing fire raged out of control for three weeks, spreading poisonous iodine-131 and other toxics throughout Europe. About 125,000 Ukrainians have already died as a result. The radiation released was 10 times higher than the bomb at Hiroshima. One million extra cancer cases are predicted worldwide within the next 70 years. More than 200 million people have been subjected to excess radiation because of Chernobyl.

"The number of mutations and thyroid gland cancer cases among children has increased," says Professor Elena Burlakova, chairman of the Radio-Biological Scientific Council of the Russian Federation. "But a full-blown scientific explanation of all this does not exist. In Russia, the Obninsk Radiological Center is examining the problem of thyroid gland afflictions. Its work indicates that a global ecological disaster took place in April 1986, and as a result, living conditions have changed. The newly introduced background radiation has influenced the immunity of population. In contaminated zones, preventive measures now are being put into practice, but only with extreme hesitation," she was quoted as saying in the prestigious Krieble Institute Monitor.

Professor Vladimir Shevchenko, director of a laboratory that studies the effects of radiation on genes, says 4,500 forms of genetic mutations threaten the human race as a direct result of the Chernobyl disaster.

To make matters worse, the concrete structure that they encased the reactor in as a temporary barrier to prevent further leaks, has begun to deteriorate. Rainwater has gotten in through cracks in the roof, contaminating the water, and decomposing the container's support structure. Unless something is done, it is only a matter of time before the area becomes lethal again. I dont feel that the third trumpet sounded the first time around but during the great tribulation, God could use Chernobyl to burn like a torch, contaminating a third of the waters, and causing many more men to die and fulfill the prophecy.

Anyway, we can go on and on about this. We definitly have different views about this. I would be down with getting together sometime with you and any others interested, Lance?, and having a discussion about this. I find this type of stuff very interesting. But it all depends on when, and where, my schedule is fairly busy these days.

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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MD-this is true. We have different views but, it's fun to talk about them. It could've blown the first time or it may be used. I think that it has blown. Not all signs will be globalized where all people can see them.

The Bible says only those of us who have the spirit will be able to see the truth. In others words we who study and know what to look for. You and I and others who believe.

I'm anxious to see how the Iraq thing turns out. Are we going to war?

This is the first time that NATO is having problems with each other. The world is getting mad at each other. I can definately see how this MIGHT be the war that will kill a third of mankind.

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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-11-2003, 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Monsoon X
MD-this is true. We have different views but, it's fun to talk about them. It could've blown the first time or it may be used. I think that it has blown. Not all signs will be globalized where all people can see them.

The Bible says only those of us who have the spirit will be able to see the truth. In others words we who study and know what to look for. You and I and others who believe.

I'm anxious to see how the Iraq thing turns out. Are we going to war?

This is the first time that NATO is having problems with each other. The world is getting mad at each other. I can definately see how this MIGHT be the war that will kill a third of mankind.
A friend of mine that I work with (who is also a christian) and I were talking about this this morning. What happens if we go into Iraq and beat the crap out of them and take over the oil supply? How many countries are gonna get pissed? The oil companies here in the states have already been talking about this senario. If this happens, by this time next year we could see gas prices back under a buck but on the other hand we may have so many other countries mad at us it could spur the next world war.

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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-12-2003, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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So is it a mere coincidence that the Bible prophecies speak of a war that kills a 1/3 of mankind will come from the Euphrates river and the nation that we have the most probs with (As well as other nations) has that river running smack dab through it?

How could the "fairy tale" writers of the Bible make a coincidence like that?

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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-13-2003, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
So is it a mere coincidence that the Bible prophecies speak of a war that kills a 1/3 of mankind will come from the Euphrates river and the nation that we have the most probs with (As well as other nations) has that river running smack dab through it?

How could the "fairy tale" writers of the Bible make a coincidence like that?
What war might you be speaking of? If you're speaking about the current possible war with Iraq, I highly doubt that 2 billion people will be wiped out because of it. I'll be surprised if the deathtoll reaches the hundred thousands. There are enough countries out there that realize Iraq needs to be dealt with ... they're just too chicken sh*t to do anything about it, because Iraq poses a much greater threat to them, being as close as they are. If we take out Iraq, there's going to be a lot of "thank you"s coming from current countries that are on the fence about the situation.

As for other middle eastern countries, Iraq is the only one besides Israel, with the means to actually mount a sizable offensive. Egypt is a distant 3rd, with Iran close behind, or on about the same level. Other countries don't pose near as much of a threat, even if they combined forces, against the western world. Fortunately, Israel is on our side (and hopefully it will stay that way. It appears that it will for the forseeable future), so that leaves Iraq.

And, let's not forget, just because a country is predominantely Muslim, does not mean that we're all of the sudden going to have millions of Muslims crying foul, if we take out Saddam's regime. Most Muslims, I'd hope, have the common sense to know an insane madman when they see one. Anyone who willingly slaughters his own people, and picks on smaller, neighboring countries ... that's a madman that needs to be dealt with.

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post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-13-2003, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
So is it a mere coincidence that the Bible prophecies speak of a war that kills a 1/3 of mankind will come from the Euphrates river and the nation that we have the most probs with (As well as other nations) has that river running smack dab through it?

How could the "fairy tale" writers of the Bible make a coincidence like that?
I dont think this is the war that starts it all but I do think that the war to end all wars is close. Only when China gets involed will it happen. They are the only country able to put together an army of 200 million. China is one country you dont want to piss off. And yes, it will have alot to do with Iraq and its neighboring countries.
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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-13-2003, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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1.) It seems as if we will bomb Iraq with or without a new U.N. resolution.

2.) Al Quieda and others have said that if we attack Iraq then the U.S. will be terrorized by operatives still in the U.S.

3.) While we are attacking Iraq, N. Korea seeks a pre-emptive strike against the U.S. They have already said that the U.S. isn't the only country that can be preactive against countries which threaten the country. The CIA has announced that NK has a missle that is capable of reaching the West Coast. NK thinks they could be next because Bush has already identified them as being apart of the Axis Of Evil

4.) So while we're fighting a war on two fronts. China does what it's been itching to do......take over Taiiwan. Bush said he will do "whatever it takes" and we have already promised to defend Taiiwan if they should be attacked by China. So we go help defend Taiiwan

5.) China attacks the U.S.

6.) India moves against Pakistan they both have nuclear weapons. India is with the UN and Pakistan likes Iraq.

This war could easily spin out of control.

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