To be saved or baptized? Or both? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-18-2002, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Question To be saved or baptized? Or both?

I would like for Duff, Hailey and me to be saved together. We are searching for a new church that Duff feels comfortable with. One geared towards married couples OUR age and one that keeps a youthful atmosphere, i.e. Christian rock style music, etc. (any suggestions are appreciated).

Issues:

1.) We do not want to be saved in front of a church full of strangers. We would like to do it on our own or in a quiet comfortable setting (which I fully understand that it can be done by ourselves). We just want it done soon and then if we want to do it again before our church down the road we can.

I am simply under the impression that it must be done in church in front of other Christians. Am I correct? Or is it possible to do something w/just the pastor?

2.) I am baptized and so is Hailey (altho I want her to be done again at a "knowing" age). Duff is not. JC especially, should we be baptized AND saved? What are the exact differences?

Thanks in advance - I know this forum is like a 2nd job for some of you. I for one am grateful you're here. Nic

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-18-2002, 02:38 PM
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Re: To be saved or baptized? Or both?

Quote:
Originally posted by Girls can too
I would like for Duff, Hailey and me to be saved together. We are searching for a new church that Duff feels comfortable with. One geared towards married couples OUR age and one that keeps a youthful atmosphere, i.e. Christian rock style music, etc. (any suggestions are appreciated).
What part of town do you all live. The church that my family goes to is at the corner of Trinity Mills and Kelly in Carrollton. It may suit what you are looking for. Another one that I heard is very good is Fellowship Church across from Grapevine Mills Mall.

Quote:
Issues:

1.) We do not want to be saved in front of a church full of strangers. We would like to do it on our own or in a quiet comfortable setting (which I fully understand that it can be done by ourselves). We just want it done soon and then if we want to do it again before our church down the road we can.

I am simply under the impression that it must be done in church in front of other Christians. Am I correct? Or is it possible to do something w/just the pastor?
Salvation can come anywhere at anytime. It does not have to be in front of a church or with a pastor. You can be lying in bed and give your heart over to God and be saved. It is a personal thing between you and God.

Quote:
2.) I am baptized and so is Hailey (altho I want her to be done again at a "knowing" age). Duff is not. JC especially, should we be baptized AND saved? What are the exact differences?

Thanks in advance - I know this forum is like a 2nd job for some of you. I for one am grateful you're here. Nic
One reason to be baptized is to confess before "man" that you acknowledge what Christ has done for you and you accept His free gift of salvation. The Bible states that to be saved you must believe in your heart and confess with your mouth. Baptism is one form of confessing.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-18-2002, 02:58 PM
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Just go Church search. Give a bunch a try till one hits ya. I recommend the church that I go to now. Been going there for about 4 months now and it is great. Their are three services every Sun, 8:00, 9:15, and 11:00. The 9:30 I like the best b/c we always have a live band every sun on that one. The 9:30 is the most contemporary anyways. But it is in Carrollton and here is a link Prince of Peace Let me know if you would like to come. Shoot me a PM and me and my wife will meet you up. It is a good size church and we dont know everyone there yet, but I like it alot.

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Last edited by 281R; 12-18-2002 at 06:17 PM.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-19-2002, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much. I agree 281R, we planned to just "pop" into different ones and see which one(s) "fit". I feel that a commitment to a church is like a commitment to your spouse...Nothing that should be taken lightly and something that should last years.

I've always wanted to be a part of a church but Duff's always had the belief that most are money-driven. Always digging deeper and deeper into the participant's pockets. I almost had him convinced otherwise but then his mother got Dementia and, as she slowly lost her mind and eventually died from it, her church emptied her bank account. It was like a concrete wall was put back up in front of us.

I have slowly chissled it back down but it'd take a really great church/service to make him take it seriously. He believes that he's confessed his faith, follows His rules (well, except our cursing ) and does so much for others that going to church isn't a requirement to enter Heaven. Don't worry - I've explained otherwise and he'll learn even more when we do find our church.

BTW, we're close to the south Irving area. I'm not ganna be online much until the New Year, so I say thank you so much for your responses/PM's. They were so informative and heartfelt! We would love to pop in to each of your churches, if for nothing more than to spend time with you. Thanks again and talk soon! Nic
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-07-2003, 11:28 AM
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Hey Nichole, if you want, you can come to church with me (St. Elizabeth), we have 3 different services on sunday...8, 10, & 12. Just let me know when you guys would like to go.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2003, 10:56 PM
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baptism isn't necessary, but def is great to have. it represents the crucification of the old man and the birth of the new and also confesses to man... to be saved though, is just between you and God. you do not have to have anyone else with you...finding a comfortable church is necessary and is a true blessing. if you are ever in the 183/ euless main area come see us. we are contemporary, and have great, spirit filled services. but find a church that suits you. it might even take a while. it took my family and i almost a year to find our church, but God is moving in all of our lives and we are all thankful. have faith and hang in there. God has a plan for you!
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnStang
baptism isn't necessary, but def is great to have. it represents the crucification of the old man and the birth of the new and also confesses to man... to be saved though, is just between you and God.
I agree to a point John and I don't think it is necessary to salvation, however, I don't think it is an option either. My point is, Jesus commanded us to be baptized. He commanded the disciples to baptize new believers.
Quote:
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
All the way through ACTS it mentions of new believers being baptized. Even though it may not be a "requirement" for salvation, I believe it is something that needs, not should, be done.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 02:59 PM
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Boy, i wish you guys lived up here. Stonebriar Community Church in Frisco was intrumental in bringing me back to Christ. It's non-denominational, so there's not the in-fighting that I grew up with (presbyterian vs Baptist, etc). The pastor is Chuck Swindoll who use to be the president (now chancellor) of the Dallas Theological Seminary (not to mention his radio show Insight for Living). His achievements helped give him the credibility that I am so hesitant and cautious to give to anyone, especially in this area.

You don't have to be a 'member' of the church to take part in anything, so there is zero pressure. In my heart, this church and congregation is the perfect stepping stone back into grace.

Their counseling staff is top notch. I wasn't a member adn I was so very thankful for the opportunity to visit with both an associate pastor and Dr. Swindoll in private to work out some issues close to my heart.

Even though I know it'd be a drive for ya'll, I can't recommend them high enough.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 03:43 PM
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All the way through ACTS it mentions of new believers being baptized. Even though it may not be a "requirement" for salvation, I believe it is something that needs, not should, be done.

i agree 100%
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnStang
All the way through ACTS it mentions of new believers being baptized. Even though it may not be a "requirement" for salvation, I believe it is something that needs, not should, be done.

i agree 100%
Just making sure we were on the same page there, it was sounding like you thought being baptized was not nessesary at all.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chris98GT
Boy, i wish you guys lived up here. Stonebriar Community Church in Frisco was intrumental in bringing me back to Christ. It's non-denominational, so there's not the in-fighting that I grew up with (presbyterian vs Baptist, etc). The pastor is Chuck Swindoll who use to be the president (now chancellor) of the Dallas Theological Seminary (not to mention his radio show Insight for Living). His achievements helped give him the credibility that I am so hesitant and cautious to give to anyone, especially in this area.

You don't have to be a 'member' of the church to take part in anything, so there is zero pressure. In my heart, this church and congregation is the perfect stepping stone back into grace.

Their counseling staff is top notch. I wasn't a member adn I was so very thankful for the opportunity to visit with both an associate pastor and Dr. Swindoll in private to work out some issues close to my heart.

Even though I know it'd be a drive for ya'll, I can't recommend them high enough.
I know of Chuck Swindoll very well Chris. I had heard of him probably around 10 years ago when I first started getting back into church. I used to listen to his radio program and have seen him on TV a few time. He is a very insightful speaker. I think I have even heard him speak one time at a Promise Keepers Meeting that I went to once, not sure about that though. I myself go to a non-denominational church, Covenant Church in Carrollton. Mike Hayes is the pastor.

I am kinda wondering why you posted this though, did you get the idea that there was "in-fighting" going on? Don't think that, John had stated something that confused me alittle and I was trying to clarify what was said. And John came back and agreed with me.

There are things in the bible that are cut and dry and there are somethings that can be interpreted several different ways. Does that make one way right and the other wrong? Not at all, only when they conflict do we have a problem, everyday man is getting a fresh revelation from the Word of God.

But anyway, please dont think that there was an argument starting here.

Also, for those interested here is a link to what my church as a whole believes and teaches.

http://www.covenantchurch.org/conten...ntCT.asp?P=517
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 02:27 AM
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Wasn't referring to here or anyones church about the infighting. Purely a personal experiance I had as a kid. I witnessed first hand as a 6 yr old child a popular church family being publicly ostracized because they moved to a baptist church.

There were some bad people in religous positions in my life and colored my view of religion in ways similar to Duff's. I was just stating how fresh of a breath of air it was to find something with such clarity.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog

Does that make one way right and the other wrong? Not at all, only when they conflict do we have a problem, everyday man is getting a fresh revelation from the Word of God.
Well, I would say that only one interpretation is right and that is the way God intended it to be. But yes it is very hard for us human beings in our fallen state to interpretate which one is right and which one is wrong. But only one right way.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris98GT
Wasn't referring to here or anyones church about the infighting. Purely a personal experiance I had as a kid. I witnessed first hand as a 6 yr old child a popular church family being publicly ostracized because they moved to a baptist church.

There were some bad people in religous positions in my life and colored my view of religion in ways similar to Duff's. I was just stating how fresh of a breath of air it was to find something with such clarity.
It is indeed a sad thing. Stuff like that still happens today. Alot of times as people grow in the walk with God they will feel led to move on to a different church or maybe they just aren't getting what they need at their current church. And, like you stated, sometimes they are marked as heathens in front of the whole congregation.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Well, I would say that only one interpretation is right and that is the way God intended it to be. But yes it is very hard for us human beings in our fallen state to interpretate which one is right and which one is wrong. But only one right way.
I guess what I am trying to say here Lance is the one pastor can give a message on Romans 8 for example. Another pastor can also give a message on the same chapter. Now these two messages with differ, the underlying message may be the same, but there will be some new revelation from the first pastor and some from the second. In my opinion, that does not make one right and one wrong. Chuck Swindoll teaches different from Mike Hayes, who teaches different from you pastor. But all of these men are men of God and fervently pray about what they are to say.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
I guess what I am trying to say here Lance is the one pastor can give a message on Romans 8 for example. Another pastor can also give a message on the same chapter. Now these two messages with differ, the underlying message may be the same, but there will be some new revelation from the first pastor and some from the second. In my opinion, that does not make one right and one wrong. Chuck Swindoll teaches different from Mike Hayes, who teaches different from you pastor. But all of these men are men of God and fervently pray about what they are to say.
this is true, teaching something different ways is possible without taking away from the truth. Sorry. I was thinking on like for EXAMPLE: the instance of Baptism. Jesus Christ said to go out and baptise all nations and some Christians interprete Christ meant young children and babys too and some Christians interprete Christ didnt mean just that. But only one way is right, not both ways. So that is what I was meaning
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2003, 10:44 AM
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Nicolle-

I understand where Duff is coming from on the money thing and I think I can speak to that just a bit.

I've served on the budget and finance committee at a couple of churches and actually chaired the committee one year. Most churches have a heavy debt obligation on the property and also have to support the pastor, music minister, etc. There is also ongoing expenses such as property and grounds maintenance. There are also utility bills. These are fixed expenses that must be met every month.

Most churches also do ministrys of some kind such as inreach and outreach and also healp needy people that stop by for help with cash or food. Some churches support foreign ministry in other countries by sending money to missionaries.

There are expenses for educational materials such as sunday school supplies and music sheets.

It's not unusual to pay the person playing the piano. When the pastor is absent the church pays for a guest pastor to preach. The church has to be cleaned and sometimes a cleaning service get contracted to do that, especially if the church property is large.

The church budget is usually voted on by the membership and i'd expect that you could get a copy of it just by asking. It will show where the resources that are given are expected to be applied during the year.

It's a fact that %20 of the people attending church pay %80 of the costs of running the church. If you have 200 families in attendance that's about 40 of them.

Now, to the heart of the matter. There are certain churches, ministries and preachers that preach a "prosperity" gospel - give and God will make you rich. It sounds like Duff's mom may have gotten involved with some of these characters. The bible does say (and I don't one right in front of me right now so I can't quote the exact verse) essentially that God will bless the giver. In fact, it's the only place in the bible that God says you can test him on what he promises.

God loves a cheerful giver and there are some verses in Malachi that talk about giving. I believe that if a person is a Christian they should financially support the ministry of Christ in some way. How you give is between yourself and God, and should be a matter for prayer.

As far as the baptism goes - it's not unheard of to have a small party in someone's back yard with a pool and baptise people in the pool. That way you can have friends and family around in a comfortable setting and have some burgers on the grill when it's done. You might want to wait till it warms up a bit though

Consider getting involved in a Sunday school group. That's a great way to meet people and make friends.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2003, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
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The bible does say (and I don't one right in front of me right now so I can't quote the exact verse) essentially that God will bless the giver. In fact, it's the only place in the bible that God says you can test him on what he promises.
(I just read what I wrote above/below and it looks like i'm lecturing you which is not my intention Many people don't know how finances in a church actually work and what I wanted to do was to explain it a bit and to encourage Duff to feel free to ask questions to whatever church you may be considering joining about how they handle their offerings. I also wanted to point you to the verses most commonly used to explain why giving is an important part of being a believer).

OK, found a bible and here are the verses (gotta love the Gideons). Pay attention to the blessing part - that's the part I like

Malachi chapter 3 (emphasis copied from the book itself)

8: Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9: Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11: And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12: And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delight-some land, saith the Lord of hosts.


That's good stuff for being faithful with your giving to the Lord.
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