Since Mustangs were ugly in the 70s.... - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-10-2002, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Since Mustangs were ugly in the 70s....

...does that mean that the Mustang production line, since it's inception, has been a grand mistake. When you consider the '67 Fastback GT350, a 65 Coupe, 93 or 03 Cobra I'd say that the mustang has been a very successful vehicle. But there were some ugly years and some weak motors weren't there? How about a 79 GT. What did they produce, 160-180 hp? What about the Mustang II. Terrible.

So you are wondering why this thread is not in Back Porch. I am trying to draw an analogy. In reference to a previous thread. Christianity is often attacked and disputed as valid for the mistakes of our predecessors. The Crusades for instance. Christ commisioned Christians to go into all the world and to spread the good news. He did not however tell us to do it by killing those who resist it. The New Testament makes specific inferences that salvation or Christiandom is based on free will. Free will had no part in the Crusades. In fact, the Crusades have nothing at all to do with Christianity.
Indeed, mistakes have been made but throwing out the merits of Christianity because of them is a fallacy. It is mearly an embarassing unfortunate blemish in our history.

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-10-2002, 09:00 AM
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I agree.
But maybe God wants all us Christians to drive Mustangs
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-10-2002, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Only pretty ones.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-11-2002, 01:39 PM
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That has got to be the goofiest comparison I've heard yet. And that's really saying something.

Christianity is a religion - a system of beliefs created by people, and perpetuated by people. Any 'blemishes' come directly from the people that were supporters of the particular system of beliefs. To take Christianity as a whole, you have to accept the Crusades as fundamentally important to Christianity as any other component - like the birth of Jesus Christ. Do you not agree?

Mustangs are cars - they are made by people, and they have no free will over their destiny. The cars that you say 'sucked' had no control over their 'suckiness'. They sucked because of the Arab oil embargo, they sucked because people quit buying cars with big powerful engines, and they sucked because everything else in the '70s sucked

These two quotes crack me up:
Quote:
Christ commisioned Christians to go into all the world and to spread the good news. He did not however tell us to do it by killing those who resist it.

In fact, the Crusades have nothing at all to do with Christianity.
I would be ashamed too. Just as Muslims should be ashamed of the bombings in Israel and the Jews should be ashamed of all the Palestenians they have killed defending 'their' territory.

And what's wrong with '79 GTs? I had a 4cyl '80 hatch that was a pretty good car... might even hang with that Saleen LONG LIVE FOUR EYES!!

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-11-2002, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird

Christianity is a religion - a system of beliefs created by people, and perpetuated by people. Any 'blemishes' come directly from the people that were supporters of the particular system of beliefs. To take Christianity as a whole, you have to accept the Crusades as fundamentally important to Christianity as any other component - like the birth of Jesus Christ. Do you not agree?
nope, not really. The crusades have nothing to do with the Christian faith. Christ our King and his teachings has everything to do with our faith. But if this is how you base religon on a system of beliefs, then you sir are a religon also.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-11-2002, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
That has got to be the goofiest comparison I've heard yet. And that's really saying something.

Christianity is a religion - a system of beliefs created by people, and perpetuated by people. Any 'blemishes' come directly from the people that were supporters of the particular system of beliefs. To take Christianity as a whole, you have to accept the Crusades as fundamentally important to Christianity as any other component - like the birth of Jesus Christ. Do you not agree?

Mustangs are cars - they are made by people, and they have no free will over their destiny. The cars that you say 'sucked' had no control over their 'suckiness'. They sucked because of the Arab oil embargo, they sucked because people quit buying cars with big powerful engines, and they sucked because everything else in the '70s sucked

These two quotes crack me up:

I would be ashamed too. Just as Muslims should be ashamed of the bombings in Israel and the Jews should be ashamed of all the Palestenians they have killed defending 'their' territory.

And what's wrong with '79 GTs? I had a 4cyl '80 hatch that was a pretty good car... might even hang with that Saleen LONG LIVE FOUR EYES!!

The Crusades were not fundamentally important to Christianity. Although they were "Christians" trying to force people to believe what they did, that is not what Jesus taught and that is not what Christianity is about. I am ashamed of what happened during the Crusades, it is a part of Christian history and something that never should have happened nor should it be ignored. But it is not anything that is important to Christianity. It is important to history to remind us all that we are human and we all make mistakes in the name of religion.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
That has got to be the goofiest comparison I've heard yet. And that's really saying something.

Christianity is a religion - a system of beliefs created by people, and perpetuated by people. Any 'blemishes' come directly from the people that were supporters of the particular system of beliefs. To take Christianity as a whole, you have to accept the Crusades as fundamentally important to Christianity as any other component - like the birth of Jesus Christ. Do you not agree?

Mustangs are cars - they are made by people, and they have no free will over their destiny. The cars that you say 'sucked' had no control over their 'suckiness'. They sucked because of the Arab oil embargo, they sucked because people quit buying cars with big powerful engines, and they sucked because everything else in the '70s sucked

These two quotes crack me up:

I would be ashamed too. Just as Muslims should be ashamed of the bombings in Israel and the Jews should be ashamed of all the Palestenians they have killed defending 'their' territory.

And what's wrong with '79 GTs? I had a 4cyl '80 hatch that was a pretty good car... might even hang with that Saleen LONG LIVE FOUR EYES!!
Well I am glad I could bring some joy into your life with my absolutely relevant analogy. I chose it simply because of the nature of the forum that we are on. True, it may not be perfect but I believe that my point is well visible, as humorous as it may be. I'll simplify it. Mustangs, despite having some ugly years, have been a very successful vehicle. Just because a 73 Mustang is ugly does not mean an 80 model is. In the same respect, just because some 11th century pope decided to misrepresent the true nature of the Bible to fit his agenda does not mean that the whole of Christianity is tainted. Follow?

What were the Crusades all about anyway? Spreading the love and gospel of Jesus Christ? No sir.
Here is a 3 sentence summarization of how I understand it: After the Turks took control of Jerusalem and prevented pilgrimages, Pope Urban II and Emperor Alexus I of Constantinople decided that that was not going to work. So they set off to destroy the enemy who was preventing them from entering their "Mecca" (for lack of a better term). So you see it was not to spread the triumphant news of Christ's resurection. It was to gain politcal control of a very important piece of property.
In Pope Urban's rallying cry he made this unfounded claim to all those who would enlist in the fight:
Quote:
The West must march to the defense of the East. All should go, rich and poor alike. The Franks must stop their internal wars and squabbles. Let them go instead against the infidel and fight a righteous war.

"God himself will lead them, for they will be doing His work. There will be absolution and remission of sins for all who die in the service of Christ. Here they are poor and miserable sinners; there they will be rich and happy. Let none hesitate; they must march next summer. God wills it!
Doesn't seem to jive with Ephesians 2:8-9 very well does it.
Absolution of sin for figting and dying in a Holy War. Hmmmmm....Seem familiar? Sounds like the same controlling nature of radical Islam today. Throw 10 virgins in there and it sounds like Osama talking.

So tell me what the Crusades, aside from being in the history of Chritiandom, has to do with the actual belief system itself. Absolutely nothing.
Another question: How can you equate a smear on the history of Christianity with the fundemental necessity of Jesus' virgin birth?

One last thing in my defense, I never said 79 mustangs were ugly, just underpowered. I was speaking more about the model prior to the Fox chassis. Yours fast as my Saleen? Depends, how fast is yours without the motor and transmission? LOL

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Last edited by Josh; 12-12-2002 at 01:46 AM.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
The Crusades were not fundamentally important to Christianity. Although they were "Christians" trying to force people to believe what they did, that is not what Jesus taught and that is not what Christianity is about.
That is assuming of course that they actually were Christians.
The GrandDragon of the KKK, who is likely to call himself a devout Chrisitian, would pobably tell you it is okay to kill a ni*ger for Jesus too.

Matthew 7:21-29 has alot to say about these type of people.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SvtJosh
What were the Crusades all about anyway? Spreading the love and gospel of Jesus Christ? No sir.
That's not what the people involved in the Crusades would say.
Quote:
Doesn't seem to jive with Ephesians 2:8-9 very well does it.

Nope.
Quote:
Absolution of sin for figting and dying in a Holy War. Hmmmmm....Seem familiar? Sounds like the same controlling nature of radical Islam today. Throw 10 virgins in there and it sounds like Osama talking.

Yeah, or Hitler. I don't think most Christians would like to be compared to those men. Or their Pope - a man 'so close to God'.
Quote:
So tell me what the Crusades, aside from being in the history of Chritiandom, has to do with the actual belief system itself. Absolutely nothing.
It shows you how easy it is to be led astray by men that purport to be inspired by God.
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Yours fast as my Saleen? Depends, how fast is yours without the motor and transmission? LOL
LOL - Dick.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
[B]That's not what the people involved in the Crusades would say.
Let us not be judged by our words, but by our actions. I am sure LBJ said it was American to get into Vietnam.
Think about how many people call them selves American but then go against the government and against the principles of America. Are they true Americans or not? Well they claim to be..
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 11:17 AM
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I don't know what you're trying to say...

All you have to do to get into heaven is accept Jesus Christ as your savior, right? Or am I missing something? It is OK to rape, pillage, and kill - as long as you are a Christian and have accepted Jesus into your life.

Who gives a crap about all those other rules?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by 46Tbird
I don't know what you're trying to say...

All you have to do to get into heaven is accept Jesus Christ as your savior, right? Or am I missing something? It is OK to rape, pillage, and kill - as long as you are a Christian and have accepted Jesus into your life.

Who gives a crap about all those other rules?
No, because at the end. Everyone will have to account for their sins. Except only the saved will have Christ as their lawyer and be found not guilty. But obviously you have never found Christ and "TRUELY" experienced Him. If you have, you would not question why if you "Truely Believe" you still do bad things. Once you truely believe and transformed by the Holy Spirit you want to do good, not bad. If you say you believe but yet you continue to do bad things without regret or in fear of the Lord. I suggest you take a good look at your heart because obviously something is wrong or your living a lie. A true believer loves God, but yet fears God because why would we want to make God angry? Make since?
Are you suggesting that a person that believes can sin and sin and God will not do anything about it? You know, God is in control and He can teach lessons too.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
I don't know what you're trying to say...

All you have to do to get into heaven is accept Jesus Christ as your savior, right? Or am I missing something? It is OK to rape, pillage, and kill - as long as you are a Christian and have accepted Jesus into your life.

Who gives a crap about all those other rules?
Danny, you keep wanting to base going to Heaven on how much of a good person someone is. You can't do that, it is clearly spelled out in the Bible that there is nothing that we can do to gain our own way into Heaven. It is a free gift given to us by God and all we have to do is except it. No, it is not alright to do those things and the Bible is clear on that but it is also clear that it is not accepting Christ that keeps us from Gods presence.

It doesn't matter how good you think you are, everyone at one time or another has sinned, and to God, a sin is a sin regardless of what it may be. We look at different sins as being greater then others, like you and I may say that raping a 6 yr girl is a bigger sin then lieing to your mother. But God sees them both as the same and He hates them both with a passion. Yes, it is hard to understand but once you do you will realize that we are all human and that we all need a divine Savior.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 03:40 PM
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Well let's just boil out the BS and get down to it:
Quote:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Interesting. According to this, the leaders of the Crusades are in Heaven! You get to spend eternity with rapists, thieves, torturers, and brutal killers. What do you guys think about that?
Quote:
A true believer loves God, but yet fears God because why would we want to make God angry? Make since?
Are you suggesting that a person that believes can sin and sin and God will not do anything about it? You know, God is in control and He can teach lessons too.
That is exactly what I'm saying. There are all walks of people, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever - that are not living the way God would want them to. It is written in the book - each book - how to live your life in order to be closer to God. Yet it is disregarded by people that think "Oh, well I love Jesus and Jesus died for my sins, so I can conquer other nations in His name". Or, "I have killed the infidels, so Allah has a special place in the afterlife for me". Which I think is complete BS.

I agree, it isn't for me to judge who is accepted by God and who isn't. But do you really believe the afterlife is a place just for Christians? God sure did put a lot of effort into making those other people for nothing, didn't He...
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
Well let's just boil out the BS and get down to it:

Interesting. According to this, the leaders of the Crusades are in Heaven! You get to spend eternity with rapists, thieves, torturers, and brutal killers. What do you guys think about that?

That is exactly what I'm saying. There are all walks of people, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever - that are not living the way God would want them to. It is written in the book - each book - how to live your life in order to be closer to God. Yet it is disregarded by people that think "Oh, well I love Jesus and Jesus died for my sins, so I can conquer other nations in His name". Or, "I have killed the infidels, so Allah has a special place in the afterlife for me". Which I think is complete BS.

I agree, it isn't for me to judge who is accepted by God and who isn't. But do you really believe the afterlife is a place just for Christians? God sure did put a lot of effort into making those other people for nothing, didn't He...
Bro, the afterlife is for everyone. Some will spend it in Heaven and some will spend it in Hell. It is ours to choose. There maybe people in Heaven that commited an aweful sin like rape or murder but I can one thing, there are more of them in Hell then Heaven.

The sad thing too is that there are people who live "good" lives but refused to accept Christ and are in Hell. Yeah, it is a shame and I wish it wasn't that way but God set it up that way and we cant see the whole picture. In the end we will know the answers to all our questions.

He did not waste His time creating anyone, it is His desire for everyone to accept Him, but not everyone will. So, if someone does not have the desire to accept Him why should He allow them to live eternally with Him?
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird

Interesting. According to this, the leaders of the Crusades are in Heaven! You get to spend eternity with rapists, thieves, torturers, and brutal killers. What do you guys think about that?
Exactly, b/c everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everybody is bad person and it took a ultimate sacrifice for any of us to be saved. God's Son, Jesus Christ. Without Him, we would all go to hell. But in Heaven, these liars, thieves, rapist, and torturers, including me in this catagory that all accepted Jesus Christ as there ticket into Heaven will be made perfect. Thats the good news!

Last edited by 281R; 12-12-2002 at 04:11 PM.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-12-2002, 04:09 PM
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The way to Heaven is a narrow road. God chooses the road. He dosent even have to offer it to you. We have the choice to follow that road and stay on it or get off.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Those who participated in the crusades may have believed in Jesus. That, however, does not neccessarily mean that they were repentent of their sin and trusted Christ for the remission of that sin.

Quote:
James 2:19
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly 281R.
We all have free will and we all choose the road that we travel. I also believe that the offering for salvation is given to all people. Why else would the aforementioned verse Jn. 3:16 say "whoever believes"? In the case you suggest it should read, "whoever God chooses".
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SvtJosh

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly 281R.
We all have free will and we all choose the road that we travel. I also believe that the offering for salvation is given to all people. Why else would the aforementioned verse Jn. 3:16 say "whoever believes"? In the case you suggest it should read, "whoever God chooses".
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were getting at.
lol, sorry. Maybe I should have said that there is only one door to Heaven and God chooses the door which is His Son Jesus Christ. Just be glad that God gave us a way b/c He dosent have to.

Dose this make it any clearer of what I meant?
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I agree that God chose His Son as the only door through which salvation can be had.

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