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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2002, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Talking Trinity Discussion

I was wanting everyone to chip in here and let me know different scriptures you have read that show the trinity. I have a few I will post in a bit.

Lee
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2002, 04:17 PM
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Re: Trinity Discussion

Quote:
Originally posted by speedpro50
I was wanting everyone to chip in here and let me know different scriptures you have read that show the trinity. I have a few I will post in a bit.

Lee
I am still studing this one. I will let you know what I find though.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a chapter for you to study. I have taught on this chapter using the basic outline below. I have more to come and would like other input as well. I am interested in hearing what others have been shown by the Holy Spirit who is the ultimate teacher!

LUKE 15
--Jeus the Redeemer
1Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. 2But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

--Holy Spirit the Revealer
8"Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[1] and loses one. Does she not light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.' 10In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

--God the Father the Receiver
11Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[2] '
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "

Again, more to come!

Lee
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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This one is extremely clear as well:

Luke 3:21-22
When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Lee
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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1 John 5:8

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Lee
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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The first example:

Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Jesus is THE light!

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Lee
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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John 17:1
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17:5
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17:10-11
And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:14
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:21-23
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24-26
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Lee
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 02:02 PM
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Hey Lee, what do you know about the Christadelphians? I came across them when I was looking up stuff to support the trinity. Their beliefs as far as who Jesus was is similar to mine.

I definitly believe in God the Father, Jesus the Son, and Holy the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is how God dwells in each one of us, so I see how these two are one. I know that the fullness of God dwelt in within the man Jesus. My only problem is the pre-existance of the man Jesus. Is this not what the trinity is based on? At least that is how I have always viewed it.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know anything about the Christadelphians.

Why do you have this confusion about Jesus being the great I am? There are several scriptures above that show proof posisitive that he is God and has always been!
Lee
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedpro50
I don't know anything about the Christadelphians.

Why do you have this confusion about Jesus being the great I am? There are several scriptures above that show proof posisitive that he is God and has always been!
Lee
I guess I am just looking at it different then most other people. I know how it is taught, my church teaches the samething. I am just looking at from the view of Jesus being God and man. The God part of him pre-exsisted. The man part of him, not so sure about that. Do you see where I am coming from?

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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I agree with that statement as Jesus was God and man or God in the flesh. Yes, he existed before as God, and then was born of a virgin Mary as a man, yet never lost any part of being God.

Lee
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 03:45 PM
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So I guess we are talking the samething here, I am just explaining it alittle different. I am looking at Jesus's pre-exsistence more of being God. Then when He was born to Mary, I see Him as Jesus, God dwelling inside a man.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 09:25 PM
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Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2002, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Where we may differ however is that I believe that the Trinity existed before Jesus was ever born of Mary. The three persons have been and are the great I AM!

Lee
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2002, 10:25 AM
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Here is how I see it.

God has always exsisted and manifested himself in many way throughout the old testement. i.e. wrestling with Jacob, appearing to Abraham, burning bush, in the fiery furnace and so on.

Jesus is fully God and fully man. As God he has always exsisted like I just stated. But as man he was born 2000 years ago just as we are born. He was more than a mere man in that he led a sinless and perfect life.
I do not deny His divinity, since He was God, and that part of him has always exsisted. Jesus had two distinct natures, divine and human. I dont think that His human nature exsisted prior to His birth.

The Holy Spirit is a part of God and therefore has always exsisted. The Holy Spirit is given to the believers as a gift from God and serves many purposes.

Their is still a trinity here, God, Jesus, Spirit. But I think what you are saying is that human nature of Jesus pre-exsisted also, right?

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