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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Homosexuality

Hey guys, know JC made a post of the is on the Backporch, but looking for versus that are against homosexuality in the Bible. Post up some versus if you know any.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:39 PM
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Here's another question to ponder: Is homosexuality genetic, or is it a choice? Why do you believe one way or the other?

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Here's another question to ponder: Is homosexuality genetic, or is it a choice? Why do you believe one way or the other?
JC had a post about this yesterday, got out of control
Maybe that is just b/c it was in the back porch
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:42 PM
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Yeah, JC got mad about my "abomination" comment. I was just stating why I thought it was wrong and I guess he didn't like it. Oh well.

Like I had stated in that thread, I have a brother that is gay (HIV positive) and I did alot of researching and studing on the subject and have alot of verses that say that it is wrong. That is one of the reasons why I do not believe people are born that way. If God is so strongly against it, why would he allow someone to be born that way and have no choice. Just doesn't make sense to me. I will post verses later at home.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Here's another question to ponder: Is homosexuality genetic, or is it a choice? Why do you believe one way or the other?
It is obvious in the Bible that it is one's choice to be homosexual. God calls it an abomination, and that is all there is to it. It is sin.

Romans 1:25-32
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 18:20-29
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:59 PM
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It is obvious in the Bible that it is one's choice to be homosexual. God calls it an abomination, and that is all there is to it. It is sin.

Romans 1:25-32
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 18:20-29
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

Lee
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:09 PM
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Ok, then here's a retort ... why would someone willingly choose to partner with someone of the same sex?

My belief is that homosexuality is genetic. Bi-sexuality, however, is a choice. I could also point out, you don't see too many bi-sexual men ... men are either straight, or gay, for the most part. Women, on the otherhand, very commonly are bi-sexual.

In my own personal experience, I cannot imagine a situation so dire, or so desperate, that I would have sex with another man. Not only would it be physically impossible, but mentally as well. I could not force my body to perform sexually with another man. If I can't consciously make the choice to be gay, I can't believe that homosexuality is a choice.

Of course, you could also bring up the numerous medical findings, cat scans, etc, that show a distinct difference in the brains of homosexuals. If I need to find the research, I'll see what I can do.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:10 PM
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It evil, wrong, 100% sinful, of the devil, and life style of the condemed.

(rev 21:8)

Its also sick and twisted.
Its hard to have any kind of love for people like that.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Ok, then here's a retort ... why would someone willingly choose to partner with someone of the same sex?

My belief is that homosexuality is genetic. Bi-sexuality, however, is a choice. I could also point out, you don't see too many bi-sexual men ... men are either straight, or gay, for the most part. Women, on the otherhand, very commonly are bi-sexual.

In my own personal experience, I cannot imagine a situation so dire, or so desperate, that I would have sex with another man. Not only would it be physically impossible, but mentally as well. I could not force my body to perform sexually with another man. If I can't consciously make the choice to be gay, I can't believe that homosexuality is a choice.

Of course, you could also bring up the numerous medical findings, cat scans, etc, that show a distinct difference in the brains of homosexuals. If I need to find the research, I'll see what I can do.
Just because you can't see it or make that choice doesn't mean others can't. A murderers brain is somewhat different when scanned, does that mean that murder is genetic? It is a choice. I can't see myself bungee jumping, I can't see myself killing myself, I can't see myself smoking crack, does that mean others can't? The truth is when a person is in a poor mental state, confused and hurt by past (childhood) issues, your thinking is screwed up and scarred by the world and circumstance. You can do lots of things you never imagined you could. I know from personal experience!

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
Yeah, JC got mad about my "abomination" comment. I was just stating why I thought it was wrong and I guess he didn't like it. Oh well.

Like I had stated in that thread, I have a brother that is gay (HIV positive) and I did alot of researching and studing on the subject and have alot of verses that say that it is wrong. That is one of the reasons why I do not believe people are born that way. If God is so strongly against it, why would he allow someone to be born that way and have no choice. Just doesn't make sense to me. I will post verses later at home.
Why does God allow children to be born disfigured, mentally handicapped, conjoined twins, fatally ill, drug addicts, etc, etc, etc? None of these are beneficial to the gene pool, they're all genetic anomollies(sp). Just as homosexuality is not beneficial to the gene pool. Yet why are these children not given any choice of how they want their lives to be lived?

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedpro50
Just because you can't see it or make that choice doesn't mean others can't. A murderers brain is somewhat different when scanned, does that mean that murder is genetic? It is a choice. I can't see myself bungee jumping, I can't see myself killing myself, I can't see myself smoking crack, does that mean others can't? The truth is when a person is in a poor mental state, confused and hurt by past (childhood) issues, your thinking is screwed up and scarred by the world and circumstance. You can do lots of things you never imagined you could. I know from personal experience!

Lee
Mass murderer, serial killers ... yes, I believe those are genetic anomollies. The random crime of passion, or getting someone out of the way, no, that's a choice. Check those facts again, only the mass murderers and serial killers have those differences in their brains.

I can see myself bungee jumping. I can see myself killing myself if the situation were desperate enough (I've never been close to considering it, but I can see myself doing it). I can see myself smoking crack if someone holds a gun to my head and threatens to kill me if I don't. But there is no situation, no threat to my life, that I can see myself forcing my body to perform sexually with a man.

Yes, you can do a lot of things you never thought you could, but there are things that are so ingrained in your core, that no, no matter what the situation, you cannot do.

I know the Bible says it's wrong, and says it's a choice. I don't believe it is. And I challenge any of you who think it is, to seek out homosexuals, and speak with them, and ask them why they chose to be gay. Why they chose to be attracted to boys, and not girls (or vice versa), even though they knew it was against nature. Stay away from bi-sexuals, that's their choice. You have to speak with the full blown, 100% homosexuals.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:54 PM
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it IS a choice....genetic defect of not.

A man chooses whether or not to follow the laws of God. As a heterosexual i desire sex and society says it is ok, but God says no sex before marriage; I choose to follow the laws of God so I abstain. If I were a homosexual, I too would desire sex, society says it is ok, do i CHOOSE to follow the laws of God? The thoughts alone are a sin, but the act I believe is the abomination.
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Quote:
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it IS a choice....genetic defect of not.

A man chooses whether or not to follow the laws of God. As a heterosexual i desire sex and society says it is ok, but God says no sex before marriage; I choose to follow the laws of God so I abstain. If I were a homosexual, I too would desire sex, society says it is ok, do i CHOOSE to follow the laws of God? The thoughts alone are a sin, but the act I believe is the abomination.
very good answer
born that way or not born that way is no excuse for questioning God's Holy and Rightous judgement.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadKat
It evil, wrong, 100% sinful, of the devil, and life style of the condemed.

(rev 21:8)

Its also sick and twisted.
Its hard to have any kind of love for people like that.
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Revelation 21
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by NoBikeMike
it IS a choice....genetic defect of not.

A man chooses whether or not to follow the laws of God. As a heterosexual i desire sex and society says it is ok, but God says no sex before marriage; I choose to follow the laws of God so I abstain. If I were a homosexual, I too would desire sex, society says it is ok, do i CHOOSE to follow the laws of God? The thoughts alone are a sin, but the act I believe is the abomination.
Ok, that's kind of dodging the point. Having sex is a choice, yes we all know this. But that doesn't mean the desire is a choice. That doesn't mean that homosexuality is a choice. It's their choice to have sex, or to not have sex, but it's not (in my belief) their choice to feel sexual attraction to persons of the same sex.

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Ok, that's kind of dodging the point. Having sex is a choice, yes we all know this. But that doesn't mean the desire is a choice. That doesn't mean that homosexuality is a choice. It's their choice to have sex, or to not have sex, but it's not (in my belief) their choice to feel sexual attraction to persons of the same sex.
Yes, desire is a choice, humanity is in nature to go against God and sin against him. We have the choice to choose to follow that desire or not. There is no difference here.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 05:24 PM
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Wait, are you telling me you choose whether or not your attracted to someone? Let's get off the "acting on those desires" stint, and just go with the base desire. Are you telling me that physical attraction, a core function of human nature, is a choice?

And if that is what you're saying, can you please back it up with some facts? Until then, desire is inherent. It's genetic. It's human nature. It's NOT a choice. You don't choose who you're attracted to.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Wait, are you telling me you choose whether or not your attracted to someone? Let's get off the "acting on those desires" stint, and just go with the base desire. Are you telling me that physical attraction, a core function of human nature, is a choice?

And if that is what you're saying, can you please back it up with some facts? Until then, desire is inherent. It's genetic. It's human nature. It's NOT a choice. You don't choose who you're attracted to.
You are talking about something totally different here Jay. We all have at one time or another have had thoughts and desires (not just sexually) that go against the will of God. But we are told to overcome those fleshly desires. And we can only overcome those by the blood of the lamb. I myself could have a homosexual desire (not really but for arguement sake) but that does not make me gay, not until I give in to those desires, then it becomes a sin. Genetic or not we must overcome any ill desire and do what is right in Gods eye. The bible says that sex is to be between a man and woman after marriage. Any kind of sex outside of marriage, straight or gay is a sin.

My brother is gay and knowing him growing up, I can say from first hand experience that at least in his instance it is a choice to go in that direction. The sad thing is, he knows it is wrong but chooses to live that way anyhow.

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Wait, are you telling me you choose whether or not your attracted to someone? Let's get off the "acting on those desires" stint, and just go with the base desire. Are you telling me that physical attraction, a core function of human nature, is a choice?

And if that is what you're saying, can you please back it up with some facts? Until then, desire is inherent. It's genetic. It's human nature. It's NOT a choice. You don't choose who you're attracted to.
Jay, you really dont have a leg to stand on here. God says it wrong and says it is an abomination. And thats it. Everyone in life gets a different deck of cars but read Rev 21:7-8
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And may I point out verse 7, "He that overcometh" and verse 8 points out all the sins and flaws that are not in rightousness. Ex: Fear is not of God, but we are born with it. Homosexuality fits right in verse 8 as an abomination. He that overcometh, shall inherit all things. I am not saying a gay person will not go to heaven, b/c we can not judge that. But if states clearly that God is against it!

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 09:48 PM
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Wow, you guys get into some deep stuff in here.

I personally have always felt that it is a choice made as a result of situations unknown encountered during the impressionistic periods in life.
Case in point: There is a group of young girls in the Junior High here that the teachers refer to as "The Vampire Lesbians." This group dresses all in black and are...lesbians. Hopefully in label only, as they are in Junior high. I find this appalling, to say the least. What kind of parental influence is present in these girls lives? Back to the point. It is perceived by the other children to be the "in" thing to be a lesbian, or homosexual. This is but one example of why I believe it is a mental choice that is made.


First real post here...
And I'm guessing they're most likely not lesbians, but bi-sexual. Lesbian isn't the "in" thing. Bi-sexual is.

Quote:
not until I give in to those desires, then it becomes a sin.
Yet the Bible says that sin in thought is no different that sin in deed.

Quote:
Jay, you really dont have a leg to stand on here. God says it wrong and says it is an abomination. And thats it. Everyone in life gets a different deck of cars but read
I'm not arguing whether or not the Bible says it's ok, or whether or not it's against God. I'm arguing that it's NOT a choice.

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 06:40 AM
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Let me air this out.

I started that thread so I can get an idea of how people think on certain subjects. I do stuff like that because it really helps me to "know" how an individual's mind thinks.

I wanted religion kept out of it because it just leads to a big ol' mess and I didn't feel like having another religious debate. I wanted to keep it on topic.

Moondog- I didn't get mad at you. I was just trying to keep everyone within the parameters of the post.

I wanted to see if we could come to a conclusion on the matter without Biblical interpretations.

For the record I believe that it is a sexual disorder brought on by your environment. In other words it's a choice but it goes deeper than that it's like an addiction to alchohol or drugs. It's hard to recover but, it can be done. The problem is that those who do not have Christ in them, and have been given over to a reprobate mind, are making it seem like they are "born" that way.
But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions." It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And convince some, who doubt; save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 09:03 AM
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Moondog- I didn't get mad at you. I was just trying to keep everyone within the parameters of the post.

I wanted to see if we could come to a conclusion on the matter without Biblical interpretations.

Well, I could tell you were alittle pissed is all. But, it didn't bother me, I still was able to sleep that night. Half of the kids (I call them kids because that is what they are) on the back porch dont know what to believe anyway, and if I can give a biblical reason for believing something I am going to do it. I have kids of my own the same age as some on this board.

Anyway, you cant leave religion out of a discussion that is based on religious beliefs. Even those who say they are non-religious have beliefs based on a religion. Everything comes down to religion whether it is Christianity, Hinduism, Buddism or Humanism. Samething with political views, people vote according to their beliefs. Abortion, sex before marriage, the list goes on and on. From the sounds of it, the thread got to the point where religion became the focal point, which proves my point. To try to have a thread and not have religion affected by it is like a LS1 beating a Mustang, it just can't be done.

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 09:07 AM
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Why does God allow children to be born disfigured, mentally handicapped, conjoined twins, fatally ill, drug addicts, etc, etc, etc? None of these are beneficial to the gene pool, they're all genetic anomollies(sp). Just as homosexuality is not beneficial to the gene pool. Yet why are these children not given any choice of how they want their lives to be lived?
A long time ago I overheard someone answer that question and I liked what they said. They said that God doesn't make things happen like that, he lets them happen. Why? When you think of a child that is handicapped, or a child cancer patient that has lost all their hair or children who are disfigured, we are taught a great lesson. One is there is not limitation to why one person gets something the other doesn't ever have. People all over the world have problems. We assume that because God allowed this to happen that he does not love us or that he does not want us to be happy. This is far from the truth. We each have to learn to live with the life lesson that God has chosen for us to learn. While one learns compassion another learns to be confident and another something else. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean there isn't a good lesson to be learned. Have you ever talked to a handicapped child or a disfigured person or any child with an ailment? Most of those children are the most happy, loving, non jugemental people you will ever meet. Unconditional love and happiness comes from their hearts. They have saddness just like we do, but for the most part they have a greater love for life than most of us in the world. If their can be beautiful people in the world that are horribly ugly on the inside, than why can't there be just the opposite? I will not question God on his authority. He has chosen it for a reason. Even if I cannot understand what that reason is. All I know is that someday we will all be together in a place with no more tears, no more saddness or anger and everyone (saved) will have their new heavenly bodies and be with Christ.

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by MoonDog


Well, I could tell you were alittle pissed is all.................


Humanism. Samething with political views, people vote according to their beliefs. Abortion, sex before marriage, the list goes on and on. From the sounds of it, the thread got to the point where religion became the focal point, which proves my point. To try to have a thread and not have religion affected by it is like a LS1 beating a Mustang, it just can't be done.
Seriously. I wasn't upset at all. I understand what you are saying but, speaking God out there, leads to other comments and while I enjoy the debates I didn't want that thread to turn into one. That is all.

Again. I wasn't upset. Not one bit at you. Okay? Now let it go b4 I get mad!

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by QckCmbck
A long time ago I overheard someone answer that question and I liked what they said. They said that God doesn't make things happen like that, he lets them happen. Why? When you think of a child that is handicapped, or a child cancer patient that has lost all their hair or children who are disfigured, we are taught a great lesson. One is there is not limitation to why one person gets something the other doesn't ever have. People all over the world have problems. We assume that because God allowed this to happen that he does not love us or that he does not want us to be happy. This is far from the truth. We each have to learn to live with the life lesson that God has chosen for us to learn. While one learns compassion another learns to be confident and another something else. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean there isn't a good lesson to be learned. Have you ever talked to a handicapped child or a disfigured person or any child with an ailment? Most of those children are the most happy, loving, non jugemental people you will ever meet. Unconditional love and happiness comes from their hearts. They have saddness just like we do, but for the most part they have a greater love for life than most of us in the world. If their can be beautiful people in the world that are horribly ugly on the inside, than why can't there be just the opposite? I will not question God on his authority. He has chosen it for a reason. Even if I cannot understand what that reason is. All I know is that someday we will all be together in a place with no more tears, no more saddness or anger and everyone (saved) will have their new heavenly bodies and be with Christ.
Well, my statement was in repsonse to someone saying "Why would God allow people to be born homosexual". It's just the same thing as saying "Why would he allow people to be born with birth defects, ect..."

As far as what you said JC, about you "believe that it is a sexual disorder brought on by your environment. In other words it's a choice but it goes deeper than that it's like an addiction to alchohol or drugs. It's hard to recover but, it can be done."

I know someone who's known their entire life ... or at least as far back as they can remember, that they've been attracted to boys. Their childhood was normal, normal family, father and mother, no sexual abuse, no mistreating, no neglect. As a child they wanted to play house, and play with the girls, because that was fun for them. While all the other boys were saying "ew, girls are gross", and playing G.I. Joe, they were playing house with the girl next door, and playing with her dolls. As they got older, going through puberty, they tried to fit in, they tried to date girls, and feel some physical attraction to them, but they never did. Again, nothing in their 'environment' has "made them choose to be gay". When they hit their 20's, they realised that no matter how hard they tried to feel attracted to women, it just wasn't happening. They liked women, they're good friends with many women, but they feel no physical attraction to them. But that attraction is there for men. The sad part, they know it's wrong in the eyes of God (they're Baptist btw), and they know it's against nature ... but they can't help how they feel.

So, tell me. How can someone who came from a completely normal childhood, who was very effeminant(sp) as a child, who tried to be attracted to women, how can they have chosen to be gay? What 'environmental variables' exactly were present to sway them to choose homosexuality over heterosexuality?

I've known him for about 2 years now, he's still in his early 20's, and he still hasn't gone out on a date with any man. However, he's given up on dating women. He remains friends with women, and is always searching for "the one" that will spark his attraction so he can stop being gay. So, what factors are present to foster this "addiction" as you put it, you can't be addicted to something you've never tried.

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Here's another question to ponder: Is homosexuality genetic, or is it a choice? Why do you believe one way or the other?
it could be both at the same time, even if it's caused by genetic's it only goes so far on it's own, genetic's doesn't make you hop in the sack with another person of the same sex.
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 03:56 AM
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I am gonna suggest something that may sound a bit odd to some of you but hear me out.

It is not a sin to be gay.

In fact I believe it can be sinful to be straight. How you may ask?
Well, what is sin? Sin is a result of bowing to temptation. In other words, it is what we do with our temptation that determines whether sin is commited. Now I do believe the act of homosexuality is sinful. But then again isn't straight sex or lust when it is outside the bonds of mariage? My point being that you can have homosexual tendencies without being sinful. It only becomes a sin when the person decides to act on that inclination. Whether that act simply be lust or the actual act of gay sex. It is the same thing with those of us who are straight. Our inclination, albeit natural, can become sinful once it steps outside the scope of God's intention. When ones natural desire degrades into lust it becomes sin.

I will not get into an argument as to what causes homosexual desire because frankly it does not matter to me. For whatever reason it exists, be it psychological, physilogical or genetic is not going to explain it out of existance. It has been around forever and it will be here for a long while yet.

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 06:08 AM
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I agree totally with you Josh.

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SvtJosh
I am gonna suggest something that may sound a bit odd to some of you but hear me out.

It is not a sin to be gay.

In fact I believe it can be sinful to be straight. How you may ask?
Well, what is sin? Sin is a result of bowing to temptation. In other words, it is what we do with our temptation that determines whether sin is commited. Now I do believe the act of homosexuality is sinful. But then again isn't straight sex or lust when it is outside the bonds of mariage? My point being that you can have homosexual tendencies without being sinful. It only becomes a sin when the person decides to act on that inclination. Whether that act simply be lust or the actual act of gay sex. It is the same thing with those of us who are straight. Our inclination, albeit natural, can become sinful once it steps outside the scope of God's intention. When ones natural desire degrades into lust it becomes sin.

I will not get into an argument as to what causes homosexual desire because frankly it does not matter to me. For whatever reason it exists, be it psychological, physilogical or genetic is not going to explain it out of existance. It has been around forever and it will be here for a long while yet.
This is basicly what I said in one of my previous posts. The only thing though, is that we are also commanded to take charge of the lustful desires and bring them under submission. The longer we entertain these types of thoughts the harder it becomes to not act upon them. But I agree, having a thought does not make you sinful, acting on that thought does.

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No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!
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