At what point did christianity become more than a cult? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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At what point did christianity become more than a cult?

Seems to me that christianity definitely started out as a cult. A few guys following another guy who claims to be the son of god and teaching ideas outside of the norm of thinking for the time. I'm sure I've expressed this before but IMO the only difference between a religion and a cult is the number of members.
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post #2 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 07:47 PM
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Technically...


"The post-apostolic period concerns the time after the death of the apostles (roughly 100 AD) until persecutions ended with the legalisation of Christian worship under Constantine the Great."

Constantine ruled from 306 to 337.



"Validation" (acceptance? tolerance?) is key, in my mind, for moving away from that cult status. In that era I'd say you're pretty well validated when the emperor says, "Yeah, you can do your thing."


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post #3 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:42 PM
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I wonder if the Branch Davidians will be validated one day?
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post #4 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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I wonder if the Branch Davidians will be validated one day?
Apparently some of those guys still camp out where the complex used to be.
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post #5 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 01:32 AM
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It's all in the definition you accept, look up the word and you'll find different meanings of it. Some are harmless like the definition you gave, others have a more specific application.

The most common use of it is in reference to a "Christian" cult where a leader gains a following and begins teaching new revelations or new doctrines which go against orthodox Christian beliefs. For example, Mormonism is a cult because it deviates from the basic Christian doctrine of there being only one God.
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post #6 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 07:24 AM
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That's the main reason why I think that religion (and Christianity) are bullshit...all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell? I really dont see how an intelligent person could actually believe in this stuff.
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post #7 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 09:01 AM
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That's the main reason why I think that religion (and Christianity) are bullshit...all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell? I really dont see how an intelligent person could actually believe in this stuff.
What references can you quote from Christian doctrine to support what you think, or as I suspect are you simply parroting what you've "heard"?
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post #8 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 12:20 PM
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That's the main reason why I think that religion (and Christianity) are bullshit...all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell? I really dont see how an intelligent person could actually believe in this stuff.
As a product of postmodernism, it is no surprise that you reject that there are right and wrong beliefs when it comes to religion.
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post #9 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 12:23 PM
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What references can you quote from Christian doctrine to support what you think, or as I suspect are you simply parroting what you've "heard"?
Whether you call it hell or something else, it is not a good place to be.

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this flame."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
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post #10 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 01:37 PM
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These verses do not state "all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell" as the doctor (and you?) claim. Only Jesus, not any one religion, will judge who shall be found in the Book of Life.
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post #11 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 02:04 PM
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These verses do not state "all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell" as the doctor (and you?) claim. Only Jesus, not any one religion, will judge who shall be found in the Book of Life.
If these other religions are not wrong, are you then saying that religions which deny Christ are right?

The Bible clearly states that those that do not believe upon Christ will be condemned (John 3:18)
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post #12 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 02:23 PM
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That's the main reason why I think that religion (and Christianity) are bullshit...all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell? I really dont see how an intelligent person could actually believe in this stuff.
I attended the Catholic Church as a child and I am currently a Methodist and have never personally heard a priest or minister say that other religions or non-believers are going to hell. I know some hard core Christian religions may believe that, but it is not the religion I am a part of.

Do you have specifics from firsthand knowledge?

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post #13 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 02:29 PM
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If these other religions are not wrong, are you then saying that religions which deny Christ are right?

The Bible clearly states that those that do not believe upon Christ will be condemned (John 3:18)
I am not saying any such thing. I am saying you or any other man are not of any authority to judge who shall be condemned. A man may not believe in Christ today, yet still repent tomorrow and be saved.
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post #14 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 02:53 PM
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I am not saying any such thing. I am saying you or any other man are not of any authority to judge who shall be condemned. A man may not believe in Christ today, yet still repent tomorrow and be saved.
Why did you bring up other religions being wrong or not then?

But yes, I agree. God even saves some at the end of their days such as the thief on the cross.
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post #15 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 04:39 PM
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Why did you bring up other religions being wrong or not then?

But yes, I agree. God even saves some at the end of their days such as the thief on the cross.
I didn't, Dr. Dave did....read eight posts back.
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post #16 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 04:48 PM
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I was just "parroting" what I read in the bible. If you dont believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he is the son of God, then you are damned. How else could I have interpreted this? Every Christian that I have talked to tell me that if I dont believe in their God, then I am going to Hell. Ridiculous...
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post #17 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 06:38 PM
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Ridiculous...
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post #18 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 07:45 PM
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I was just "parroting" what I read in the bible. If you dont believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he is the son of God, then you are damned. How else could I have interpreted this? Every Christian that I have talked to tell me that if I dont believe in their God, then I am going to Hell. Ridiculous...
You are only parroting what you've been told by someone else. Since you're implying that you personally read this in the Bible, it should be a relatively simple matter to post quotes from the Bible in support of your post above.
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post #19 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 10:02 PM
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John 3:18, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Mark 16:16, John 3:36, Romans 6:23, I John 5:12
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post #20 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:41 AM
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That's the main reason why I think that religion (and Christianity) are bullshit...all the other religions in the world are wrong and they are all heathens and going to hell? I really dont see how an intelligent person could actually believe in this stuff.
Hell must be pretty crowded, what with all the cavemen, africans, chinese, native americans and others who never even heard of Jesus but were damned simply by default. Maybe there is an unknown consolation prize?

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post #21 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:47 AM
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Hell must be pretty crowded, what with all the cavemen, africans, chinese, native americans and others who never even heard of Jesus but were damned simply by default. Maybe there is an unknown consolation prize?
I believe that those who don't know get a 'get out of jail free card'
Hell is reserved for people like Dr. Dave

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post #22 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:38 AM
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LOL at you two...common sense is a gift that many have yet to receive!
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post #23 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:39 AM
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Hell must be pretty crowded, what with all the cavemen, africans, chinese, native americans and others who never even heard of Jesus but were damned simply by default. Maybe there is an unknown consolation prize?
Since dinosaurs arent mentioned in the bible, are they in hell too? I am just trying to get prepared for when I get there...wouldnt wanna get eaten you know.
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post #24 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:57 AM
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Since dinosaurs arent mentioned in the bible, are they in hell too? I am just trying to get prepared for when I get there...wouldnt wanna get eaten you know.
The greater question should be 'what is hell?'. The modern vision is directly related to Dante's Inferno. Some pope liked the imagery and conjured up hell.

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post #25 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 11:30 AM
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Hell must be pretty crowded, what with all the cavemen, africans, chinese, native americans and others who never even heard of Jesus but were damned simply by default. Maybe there is an unknown consolation prize?
There is. Those people go to Heck. It's just really warm instead of burning, and it's a little less miserable.
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post #26 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 11:32 AM
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There is. Those people go to Heck. It's just really warm instead of burning, and it's a little less miserable.
Heckas?

What AL P rings true with me since my dad is Buddhist. Guess he is going to hell...
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post #27 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 01:24 PM
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post #28 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 01:29 PM
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Sharing that ^ rofl
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post #29 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:17 PM
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Since dinosaurs arent mentioned in the bible, are they in hell too? I am just trying to get prepared for when I get there...wouldnt wanna get eaten you know.
Dinosaurs are definitely in hell. Aliens that live on other planets...hell. All the Greeks, who founded western civilization and came up with the ideas of citizenship and democracy back around 500 BC? Yea, those guys are burning in hell too, they were pagans. Don't tell anyone though because if this common sense stuff gets out it gets real hard to get the sheep back in the barn.

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post #30 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:18 PM
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Dinosaurs are definitely in hell. Aliens that live on other planets...hell. All the Greeks, who founded western civilization and came up with the ideas of citizenship and democracy back around 500 BC? Yea, those guys are burning in hell too, they were pagans. Don't tell anyone though because if this common sense stuff gets out it gets real hard to get the sheep back in the barn.
Love the logic... If you came up with citizenship and democracy, then you don't deserve to go to hell. The ignorance and arrogance in this thread is amazing.
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post #31 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:23 PM
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John 3:18, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Mark 16:16, John 3:36, Romans 6:23, I John 5:12
All of the above refer to those who know of Jesus and choose to reject Him. I didn't see the word "Hell" mentioned in any of them, only in your repetition of what you've been told by others..
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post #32 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:25 PM
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Hell must be pretty crowded, what with all the cavemen, africans, chinese, native americans and others who never even heard of Jesus but were damned simply by default. Maybe there is an unknown consolation prize?
Who says they're damned by default?
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post #33 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:28 PM
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All of the above refer to those who know of Jesus and choose to reject Him. I didn't see the word "Hell" mentioned in any of them, only in your repetition of what you've been told by others..
Please, oh mighty bible-knowing guru, enlighten us on what the bible actually means in those passages? Does it have to specifically say Hell for the reader to understand what it means when it speaks of damnation? C'mon man...your arguments are weak. You believe in magic and irrational BS yet you want to argue semantics? So you are saying that if you do not believe that Jesus is your savior you can still get into Heaven? Isnt that the whole mantra of Christianity?
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post #34 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:28 PM
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Who says they're damned by default?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that everybody has or will commit at least one sin in their lifetime, and if they don't accept Jesus and ask for forgiveness, they can't get into Heaven.


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post #35 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:29 PM
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Who says they're damned by default?
They arent Christian and do not believe in Jesus...therefore they are damned...hey, there you go. Even you are defining being destined for Hell as "damned."
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post #36 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:32 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that everybody has or will commit at least one sin in their lifetime, and if they don't accept Jesus and ask for forgiveness, they can't get into Heaven.
That is correct...but that doesnt mean that they arent headed to Hell apparently...only that they are damned. Which, I guess, just means that you will have to let Forensix sit on your face for eternity?
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post #37 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:39 PM
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They arent Christian and do not believe in Jesus...therefore they are damned...hey, there you go. Even you are defining being destined for Hell as "damned."
I didn't say they were damned, I repeated what Al P posted. Can you not keep track of who posted what?
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post #38 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:42 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that everybody has or will commit at least one sin in their lifetime, and if they don't accept Jesus and ask for forgiveness, they can't get into Heaven.
I am not the one that decides who does or does not "get into Heaven". Our sins are already forgiven, that is what you need to accept.
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post #39 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:45 PM
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Please, oh mighty bible-knowing guru, enlighten us on what the bible actually means in those passages? Does it have to specifically say Hell for the reader to understand what it means when it speaks of damnation? C'mon man...your arguments are weak. You believe in magic and irrational BS yet you want to argue semantics? So you are saying that if you do not believe that Jesus is your savior you can still get into Heaven? Isnt that the whole mantra of Christianity?
Just about everything in the quoted post is simply a rant, so it merits no serious reply.
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post #40 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:19 PM
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Just about everything in the quoted post is simply a rant, so it merits no serious reply.
But thats what makes this forum so fun...arguing with irrational people. You can do better...I know you can!
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post #41 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:21 PM
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I am not the one that decides who does or does not "get into Heaven". Our sins are already forgiven, that is what you need to accept.
Just because your sins are forgiven doesnt give you the right to sin willy-nilly no? You have to be a believer and do good by your actions, correct? At least that is what I remember...this keeps people like Hitler from getting in to Heaven.
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post #42 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 12:23 AM
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It's sad when a non-Christian has a better theology than a "Christian"
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post #43 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 05:05 AM
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Even more tragic is seeing someone attempt to usurp the authority of Jesus Christ while claiming to be Christian.
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post #44 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 07:51 AM
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Even more tragic is seeing someone attempt to usurp the authority of Jesus Christ while claiming to be Christian.
Where is the authority of Jesus Christ being usurped? You said "Our sins are already forgiven, that is what you need to accept."

Can you show me any verse that says non-believers sins are already forgiven?

Forgiveness of sins is by faith in Christ, not simply by being born.

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post #45 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:00 AM
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I am not the one that decides who does or does not "get into Heaven". Our sins are already forgiven, that is what you need to accept.
But my example is valid, those people existed before Christ. If the death of Christ relieved us from the burden of sin then those people were damned by circumstance.

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post #46 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:08 AM
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Love the logic... If you came up with citizenship and democracy, then you don't deserve to go to hell. The ignorance and arrogance in this thread is amazing.
The arrogance in this forum certainly is amazing. Especially the part where some of the giant assholes in here pretend to have all the answers. Or worse yet, look down their noses at people because they have formed an opinion about the Bible which is no more valid than any other opinion.

And just FYI, I am virtually certain that God exists and Jesus was exactly what he said he was. At the end of the day that is my opinion though. I'd like to think it is more valid than the guy who thinks God was an alien but no amount of wishing on my part or criticizing others or forming my own complex opinion is going to make it so.

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post #47 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:45 AM
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The arrogance in this forum certainly is amazing. Especially the part where some of the giant assholes in here pretend to have all the answers. Or worse yet, look down their noses at people because they have formed an opinion about the Bible which is no more valid than any other opinion.
I am speaking of arrogance towards God. The "How dare God send someone to hell" kind of attitude. The bible uses the language of pots arguing with the potter.

If it is arrogant of me to stand for what I believe in based upon the bible, so be it. I could take a willy nilly approach to the truth claims it makes, but I am not here to bend what it says in order to not offend someone or make friends.
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post #48 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 09:57 AM
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It's sad when a non-Christian has a better theology than a "Christian"
No, just shows that my reading comprehension is better than his. I can read and remember what is in a book and not necessarily believe what I read. I have also read "The Great and Secret Show" but I dont believe in Quiddity.
You two probably agree more than you disagree...MM has his own views of what the Bible means in certain verses and you have yours...doesnt mean either of you are right or wrong. Just have your own personal relationships with your God and dont sweat what others believe.
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post #49 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
I am not the one that decides who does or does not "get into Heaven". Our sins are already forgiven, that is what you need to accept.
I'm not talking about you or me deciding who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. It's stated in the Bible that if you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be forgiven and go to Heaven; if you don't, you won't. Correct?


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That_Is_My_El_Camino is offline  
post #50 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino View Post
I'm not talking about you or me deciding who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. It's stated in the Bible that if you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be forgiven and go to Heaven; if you don't, you won't. Correct?
It all depends on how you interpret what is stated in the Bible.
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