What do you get out of worshipping God...... - DFWstangs Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
What do you get out of worshipping God......

because i just don't get it?

I don't have a problem with anyone worshipping anything as long as it is not pushed on others.

Feel free to worship your dog.....just don't try to get me to.

And please don't quote the Bible in any answers because I do not take it for the word of god seeing as it has gone thru countless editings and translations.
Jester is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 06:18 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
because i just don't get it?

I don't have a problem with anyone worshipping anything as long as it is not pushed on others.

Feel free to worship your dog.....just don't try to get me to.

And please don't quote the Bible in any answers because I do not take it for the word of god seeing as it has gone thru countless editings and translations.
So, I hate pushers of EITHER SIDE! I have my beliefs and I'm plenty cool with people who don't agree with me.

What I'm seeing more an more lately is that folks who don't believe bashing those who do w/o cause. This shit is a two way street.

Be sure to take this on a case-by-case basis, cause I'm pretty laid back right up until being -bashed- for my beliefs and then I get angry. (especially since I don't talk about them, unless asked and I answer that question) I won't tell you how you how to live your life from a religious point of view, don't do it to me.

As far as what do I get out of it - frankly that whole thing is waaaay to hard to explain on a forum and likely is different for everyone. A quick example is I feel I make my own luck and there maybe some divine intervention. Others feel it is all God's will.

Another is, my God is better than your God (of course that does not apply to you, just an example). I feel that in general, I don't care if you feel your God is different then mine. At the end of the day the rules are about the same on how you're supposed to live life which is the important part. Muslims seem to be different however and that is one religion I would not be able to embrace.

In relation to the previous paragraph, I don't know of anyone who can't live a decent life with or without religion. It's more about parenting, maturity, and responsibility. For some families, religion is a tool/structure or whatever to assist and guide.

The final thing I'll say is that I believe in God, but I don't necessarily KNOW there is a God. I've never been dead that long to remember what happened. This is where it gets way to hard for me to explain what I'd want to say in full, on a forum.

Whoops, not quite final. The way I also see things is if there is a God (and heaven/hell), even if you're a non-believer but lived a good life you will be judged on how you lived your life. You my not get the top floor suite or something, but you won't be hating afterlife either. (Generally speaking w/o getting too much into it)

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #3 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 07:29 AM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
because i just don't get it?

I don't have a problem with anyone worshipping anything as long as it is not pushed on others.

Feel free to worship your dog.....just don't try to get me to.

And please don't quote the Bible in any answers because I do not take it for the word of god seeing as it has gone thru countless editings and translations.


I think you answered your own question.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
 
post #4 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 08:44 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Also, the Bible is the Word of God and until you can take it as such you may not "get it".
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #5 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
Also, the Bible is the Word of God and until you can take it as such you may not "get it".
......except the word of God has been in man's hands for centuries and has had many translations and editings.........
so the "word of God" could be complete and total bullshit. There is ZERO proof of it being the word of god. Zero actual physical evidence. It is all word of mouth passed down for centuries. It always falls back on faith.

And honestly, I don't give a shit if that is your thing, but it just doesn't make sense. I mean, you are seriously worshipping something that you have only read about in a book or been told about.
What if God was described to be a giant cheese monster? Would it be any less believable? What if god really is a giant cheese monster?
Jester is offline  
post #6 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
And I also find religious people to be the most condescending people on the planet. It's like they think they know a big secret and they take joy in thinking I will burn in hell.

This does not apply to all religious folk, obviously, but I honestly find them to be dicks for the most part when I question the existence of God.
Jester is offline  
post #7 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 04:20 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And I also find religious people to be the most condescending people on the planet. It's like they think they know a big secret and they take joy in thinking I will burn in hell.

This does not apply to all religious folk, obviously, but I honestly find them to be dicks for the most part when I question the existence of God.
Why question someone's beliefs? Of course they'll get defensive if you start talking smack about them not making sense or whatever, it's more or less human nature. Why not let people be?

If they are pushing it on you, that's certainly one thing. Otherwise let it go and these problems go away.

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #8 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 06:19 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And I also find religious people to be the most condescending people on the planet. It's like they think they know a big secret and they take joy in thinking I will burn in hell.

This does not apply to all religious folk, obviously, but I honestly find them to be dicks for the most part when I question the existence of God.
There is no secret nor should there be, and anyone who claims to be religious and is of that opinion is totally wrong. Also, if anyone seriously takes joy in believing you will burn in hell they are definitely not true Christians, because in the first place that's not their call to be making.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #9 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 06:27 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
because i just don't get it?

I don't have a problem with anyone worshipping anything as long as it is not pushed on others.

Feel free to worship your dog.....just don't try to get me to.

And please don't quote the Bible in any answers because I do not take it for the word of god seeing as it has gone thru countless editings and translations.
You know, if Christians were doing what we're supposed to, we're told in the Bible, by God Himself, to worship in deed and in truth. In other words, we are supposed to make our worship helping others and always sharing truth. The rest is in addition to that, and much less important. And yet Christians generally do the singing to worship God instead of the "deed and truth". They take the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff...

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #10 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
Why question someone's beliefs? Of course they'll get defensive if you start talking smack about them not making sense or whatever, it's more or less human nature. Why not let people be?

If they are pushing it on you, that's certainly one thing. Otherwise let it go and these problems go away.
I wish it were that simple. Radical Muslims believe we should die..........im not ignoring that. A "christian" I work with thinks his hands heal people.......seriously. He thinks he has healed the blind.
Makes my "you're a fucking nutjob" radar go off!
Jester is offline  
post #11 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And I also find religious people to be the most condescending people on the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I honestly find them to be dicks for the most part when I question the existence of God.


lulz

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #12 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
lulz
I can just never ask questions without them getting confused, flustered, and then blowing me off. The answer is stupid simple.....faith. That is the only thing they have......and that is fine, but don't tell me it is the absolute truth.
Jester is offline  
post #13 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:47 AM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I can just never ask questions without them getting confused, flustered, and then blowing me off. The answer is stupid simple.....faith. That is the only thing they have......and that is fine, but don't tell me it is the absolute truth.
It seems the problem is your own then. If someone tells you that it is absolute truth, then to that person ..it is.. case closed.

From that point on you own what decision you make as far as how it feels to you and how it affects you.

For instance:

God IS real and I have seen Him work in my own life when there were no other ways that things could have happened. That is a fact.

How you take it from here and how it affects you is up to you, and not my issue.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #14 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
It seems the problem is your own then. If someone tells you that it is absolute truth, then to that person ..it is.. case closed.

From that point on you own what decision you make as far as how it feels to you and how it affects you.

For instance:

God IS real and I have seen Him work in my own life when there were no other ways that things could have happened. That is a fact.

How you take it from here and how it affects you is up to you, and not my issue.
It seems to me that we like to give god credit for everything goor or bad in our lives. Maybe it is us making our own luck, if you will, by using a little more of our brain to influence our surroundings. That is why I question everything because I know I don't understand how the universe works. I think if we would scientifically search for more answers rather than blaming God or thanking God, we would be further along.

Maybe I am totally wrong and it is God taking time out from working on real world issues to help me a little when my life is screwed up.......
Jester is offline  
post #15 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 06:59 AM
Canada is welcome here.
 
justinsn95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ft worth
Posts: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
......except the word of God has been in man's hands for centuries and has had many translations and editings.........
so the "word of God" could be complete and total bullshit. There is ZERO proof of it being the word of god. Zero actual physical evidence. It is all word of mouth passed down for centuries. It always falls back on faith.

And honestly, I don't give a shit if that is your thing, but it just doesn't make sense. I mean, you are seriously worshipping something that you have only read about in a book or been told about.
What if God was described to be a giant cheese monster? Would it be any less believable? What if god really is a giant cheese monster?
Most people don't understand the word "worship". You probly think it means going to church, singing songs, saying prayers, all those things. While those things are part of it, I wouldn't even say that they are the main portion of it. The main thing is that you sort of carry goodness around in your soul. Once you ask God to come into your life (and really mean it) then it sort of becomes part of who you are. It changes you for the better, and you'll know it.

You'll find yourself behaving oddly, (at least it will seem odd to you) in ways that you know you would never have seriously considered before. And no, not in some weird way. In good ways. Such as actually giving a little money to the homeless guy that asks you for a hand out, and not being angry about it. There are a lot of selfish things that I used to do, that I would never do now, because of it. And you begin to hate injustice a lot more. All the things that you used to just blow off, like the petty evils of governments around the world, seem to bother you a little bit more. And I think its actually because you are turning more good inside, more like him. Good does not tolerate evil and has extreme bias against it. All of this stuff, is kind of like worship in a way. You are carrying around his values in you, and that is paying tribute to him. Cause I know people that "worship" him, that really shouldn't even bother, because of the way they truly are.

Also, when it comes to the bible itself being lost in translation. Consider this. We are, for the sake of this argument, assuming that God exists. Right? So if we do that, then we automatically assume a lot of things. We assume that if he exists, then in all likelihood he created the universe in which we live. Which is basically, a perfect system. The fact that the human body is a working machine so that we can even have this argument is proof of this. Again, for the sake of this argument at least. Well, if God is so powerful, that he could do all this, wouldn't it be a small thing for him to see to it that the message wasn't lost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"

Last edited by justinsn95; 05-15-2010 at 07:06 AM.
justinsn95 is offline  
post #16 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 07:40 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hallsville/Longview Hickville TX.
Posts: 81
I don't consider myself a christian but... I DO give to the homeless... and I DO try to help the needy and less fortunate. These things are a given. Good people don't have to be christians. The bible was written by man something like 300 yrs. after the death of "Christ" and in general is a book about how to live a good life. Even if it were the book that was spoken by God/Angelic forces (depending on the pastor/priest whos interpretation you buy) If you think for a second that opinionated men (Liars, as we all are) didnt throw thier 2 cents in then I need some of that drug because its making you delusional. The bible is subject to interpretation far more than any other book. For instance... When Jesus walked into the church and found his people gambling and selling items with which to worship, he said... in a nutshell... I wash my hands of this church. I believe he was washing his hands of the BUSINESS itself. Small groups of people in a living room can worship without buying the pastor a new cadillac. That being said... I have very close christian friends who I love dearly (my wife being one of them and my best friend) and hold in the highest respect because they are not judgmental of me or my "ideas". However, if you are the type to "hate" on others belief systems... "Thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged".
Not tryin to pick a fight here, just expressing opinions.

...Because it's Super-Badass!
jerevicious13 is offline  
post #17 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 08:56 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It seems to me that we like to give god credit for everything goor or bad in our lives. Maybe it is us making our own luck, if you will, by using a little more of our brain to influence our surroundings. That is why I question everything because I know I don't understand how the universe works. I think if we would scientifically search for more answers rather than blaming God or thanking God, we would be further along.

Maybe I am totally wrong and it is God taking time out from working on real world issues to help me a little when my life is screwed up.......
I believe in a God so I do. However, it sounds like you work with an a-hole bible thumper which as a "believer" I dislike them as much as people who bust my chops (unsolicited) for believing.

You either do or you don't and that's all there is too it. You need to tell anyone trying to shove their bliefs on you to shut their pie holes, seriously.

I believe that if there truly is a God, he's not going to hate people who don't believe. If he's truly forgiving and all that, he's going to care more about how you lead your life and all that jazz.

If there is not a God/higher being/whatever, it really does not matter anyway. Live a good life to be around good people, stay out of jail and so forth. End result is the same.

Personally, I'm sorry you have to deal with that person. I could not put up with it all that long. I have a guy at my work that does that to people who BASH those who believe in God, and I've gotten him to refrain from it. There is some banter now between us, but at the end of the day what does it hurt if you're not bashing the other group.

If you believe, great. If not, great.

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #18 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 09:49 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerevicious13 View Post
I don't consider myself a christian but... I DO give to the homeless... and I DO try to help the needy and less fortunate. These things are a given. Good people don't have to be christians. The bible was written by man something like 300 yrs. after the death of "Christ" and in general is a book about how to live a good life. Even if it were the book that was spoken by God/Angelic forces (depending on the pastor/priest whos interpretation you buy) If you think for a second that opinionated men (Liars, as we all are) didnt throw thier 2 cents in then I need some of that drug because its making you delusional. The bible is subject to interpretation far more than any other book. For instance... When Jesus walked into the church and found his people gambling and selling items with which to worship, he said... in a nutshell... I wash my hands of this church. I believe he was washing his hands of the BUSINESS itself. Small groups of people in a living room can worship without buying the pastor a new cadillac. That being said... I have very close christian friends who I love dearly (my wife being one of them and my best friend) and hold in the highest respect because they are not judgmental of me or my "ideas". However, if you are the type to "hate" on others belief systems... "Thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged".
Not tryin to pick a fight here, just expressing opinions.
This is why Scripture is debated, which is a good thing because it requires the debaters to read for themselves what God is telling them.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #19 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 06:13 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,249
... kicking ego's shite out of the ruler's chair. Then the fun begins.
FSON is offline  
post #20 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 08:09 AM
Canada is welcome here.
 
justinsn95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ft worth
Posts: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerevicious13 View Post
I don't consider myself a christian but... I DO give to the homeless... and I DO try to help the needy and less fortunate. These things are a given. Good people don't have to be christians. The bible was written by man something like 300 yrs. after the death of "Christ" and in general is a book about how to live a good life. Even if it were the book that was spoken by God/Angelic forces (depending on the pastor/priest whos interpretation you buy) If you think for a second that opinionated men (Liars, as we all are) didnt throw thier 2 cents in then I need some of that drug because its making you delusional. The bible is subject to interpretation far more than any other book. For instance... When Jesus walked into the church and found his people gambling and selling items with which to worship, he said... in a nutshell... I wash my hands of this church. I believe he was washing his hands of the BUSINESS itself. Small groups of people in a living room can worship without buying the pastor a new cadillac. That being said... I have very close christian friends who I love dearly (my wife being one of them and my best friend) and hold in the highest respect because they are not judgmental of me or my "ideas". However, if you are the type to "hate" on others belief systems... "Thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged".
Not tryin to pick a fight here, just expressing opinions.
That's all fine and great, for you. Maybe I was what you would call a bad person. And without God's help I could not have made the change over to "good" person. I saw no reason to. After all, what was the point, if it didn't even matter either way? You probably think that I am doing it out of fear or because I feel like I have to. Not at all. Once you invite him into your life you realize that you don't really have a reason to fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
justinsn95 is offline  
post #21 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
......except the word of God has been in man's hands for centuries and has had many translations and editings.........
so the "word of God" could be complete and total bullshit. There is ZERO proof of it being the word of god. Zero actual physical evidence. It is all word of mouth passed down for centuries. It always falls back on faith.

And honestly, I don't give a shit if that is your thing, but it just doesn't make sense. I mean, you are seriously worshipping something that you have only read about in a book or been told about.
What if God was described to be a giant cheese monster? Would it be any less believable? What if god really is a giant cheese monster?
Actually, this is not accurate. You might want to study into this sometime. The dead sea scrolls are dated back to the BC 300 era to the first century AD era. We found them in 1947-1948. They contain basically all of the books of the Old Testament and much more, and I think they may contain a few of the New Testament writings as well, but I forget. What the Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed is that our Bible manuscripts we have today are pretty much dead-on accurate. And when we go to translate those, we look at the King James Version and look at the original Hebrew (which hasn't changed hardly at all in the past few thousand years) and we find that the King James Version is well translated and not manipulated. I can sit down with a Hebrew dictionary and go word-by-word in the original manuscripts and translate them and they say exactly what the King James says. The only small manipulations we see with translation is in the newer translations after the 1700s. Those have definitely manipulations in them. There are plenty of books to prove it, and one was written by a guy that headed the translating for the New American Standard Bible. It's called New Age Bible Translations. Very good book if you want to research this.

Therefore, no, the 17,000 (or 27,000... I forget) manuscripts we have are not at all modified one bit, except a mess up here and there, and the translations are barely manipulated, aside from the King James Version which is pretty darn accurate aside from very very few honest mistakes.

So your statement is rendered inaccurate at this point (no disrespect intended).

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #22 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 02:02 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerevicious13 View Post
I don't consider myself a christian but... I DO give to the homeless... and I DO try to help the needy and less fortunate. These things are a given. Good people don't have to be christians. The bible was written by man something like 300 yrs. after the death of "Christ" and in general is a book about how to live a good life.
There are some things which need to be corrected with your post.

No disrespect intended, but that is an incorrect statement. The oldest book in the Bible, Job, was written only a few hundred years after the flood, which happened 4400 years ago. Thus, the Bible's writing started around 4,000 years ago, which is about 2,000 years before Christ. The New Testament began being written around AD 40-50 and was finished around AD 90, approximately.

The event you're referring to is the Council of Nicea (sp?) where they determined which books would be in the Bible.

Quote:
Even if it were the book that was spoken by God/Angelic forces (depending on the pastor/priest whos interpretation you buy) If you think for a second that opinionated men (Liars, as we all are) didnt throw thier 2 cents in then I need some of that drug because its making you delusional.
That is an assumption on your part. We have absolutely no way of proving or disproving they were telling the truth or were not telling the truth. We can assume either/or. You could be correct or you could be 100% incorrect. Who knows? Best to be objectional about it. I believe we can all but prove that mankind didn't screw it up, so I stick with that assumption, for the most part, but it is just that: an assumption.

Quote:
The bible is subject to interpretation far more than any other book.
Art and other books are also open to interpretation. Only the author knows the real interpretation. Can I now toss out all art and all books as complete crap simply because they, too, are open to interpretation? That doesn't make much sense.

The qualifiers for the Bible being real or fake are not legitimate qualifiers. Objectively, we must toss them out and look for actual things which prove or disprove the Bible. As of yet, nothing in the Bible has been disproven and no contradictions have been found. Sure, we see a lot of supposed contradictions, but when someone with some knowledge and understanding of the Bible sees them, they explain what those things actually mean, and there's absolutely no contradiction at all. Thus, for so many men to have written it over thousands of years and for them all to never once contradict themselves is quite amazing. No other religious book has done that. Also, there are 13 numerical prophecies throughout the Bible, and all have come true exactly to the dates on which they were to come true. Unless those people or God could see the future (which 'seeing the future" must be understood correctly), then it's impossible odds for those things to have come true by coincidence. Those are some very strong arguments for legitimacy of the Bible.

Quote:
For instance... When Jesus walked into the church and found his people gambling and selling items with which to worship, he said... in a nutshell... I wash my hands of this church. I believe he was washing his hands of the BUSINESS itself.
This never happened in the Bible. You're mixing up events.

Right before Day of Unleaven Bread, Jesus fulfilled Feast of Unleaven Bread by walking into His Father's house (the temple) and throwing out the money-changers. This was to fulfill the Law which says that the people should clean out their houses of all leaven (leaven represents sin) right before Feast of Unleaven Bread. So, Jesus was fulfilling that part of the Law when He did that.

Jesus told the 12 Disciples to go out to different places and preach the gospel, heal the sick and forgive sins, etc.. He told them that if they walk into a town where the people do not accept them and their healing and teaching that they should leave that town and shake off the dust from their sandles as they leave as a sign to those people that they're done with them.

When Jesus was brought before Pontius Pilot and the Jews wanted him to release the murdering theif Barabas in order that Jesus might be crusified instead of Barabas. When this occured, Pontius Pilot washed his hands in a bowl of water and said, "I do not see that this man has done any wrong. I wash my hands of this situation. His blood is on your hands." (paraphrased).

You mixed all of the events together accidentally.

Quote:
Small groups of people in a living room can worship without buying the pastor a new cadillac.
And that is the way Jesus set up the church through Paul and the apostles, actually - home assemblies. There was no pastor above anyone. No one was above anyone else, actually. "Pastors", if you can call them that, in Bible times, were missionary church planters. All they did was go around to cities, get converts, teach them how to build a home assembly and he would administer it for a while, teaching them all how to let Jesus work through them to teach one another in the assembly, and then the apostle would move on. There was no tithing of money. We're only told to give freely in the New Testament, and only if we want to. We're told to take care of the widowed, homeless and orphans and our fellow Christians of course. It was a big family. That's what Jesus came to setup - God's family on earth. They were referred to as the 3rd race, if I remember correctly.

In fact, in the 4th and 5th centuries, secular historians would call them the dancers and say that they were the ones who knew God and knew all wisdom. They were called the dancers because their home assemblies started out like a party nowadays starts out. People eating, singing, dancing, having a good time. Then would come the meal which was like a last supper sort of deal (communion) but it was a big feast in celebration of Jesus. Then afterward, everyone would teach everyone else by sharing whatever Jesus put on their hearts to share. Everyone was being used by Jesus weekly to teach others and everyone was being taught by Jesus through everyone else. No crazy tongues stuff was going on. Tongues means languages. People would be invited whom did not speak the common language of the assembly, and so sometimes, people would start speaking in that new person's language to prophesy to them, or the person would hear, in their own language, the speakers, so they didn't need a translator.

With tithing, like I said, that was Old Testament and referred only to food, not money. It was not in the New Testament teaching. Everyone simply took care of each other as needed.

Quote:
That being said... I have very close christian friends who I love dearly (my wife being one of them and my best friend) and hold in the highest respect because they are not judgmental of me or my "ideas". However, if you are the type to "hate" on others belief systems... "Thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged".
Not tryin to pick a fight here, just expressing opinions.
Everyone has the free-will right to believe what they want. It's not my place to judge them. I'll only judge what other Christians are teaching and disprove them or support them if necessary. I will debate non-Christians, but I have learned not to disrespect them or judge them. Best to discuss with them instead.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #23 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 02:10 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95 View Post
That's all fine and great, for you. Maybe I was what you would call a bad person. And without God's help I could not have made the change over to "good" person. I saw no reason to. After all, what was the point, if it didn't even matter either way? You probably think that I am doing it out of fear or because I feel like I have to. Not at all. Once you invite him into your life you realize that you don't really have a reason to fear.
There are no good or bad people, only good or bad choices, really.

Did you read the verse where it says that if a non-Christian is married to a Christian, because they are made "one", the Christian sanctifies the non-Christian? In other words, if an atheist marries a Christian, the Atheist is going to heaven with his/her Christian spouse. Interesting, no? So it would appear that even atheists can get into heaven through God's lovely little loopholes, which means when given the choice, even Atheists will choose God when standing in front of Him. Pretty cool, eh?

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #24 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 02:41 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It seems to me that we like to give god credit for everything goor or bad in our lives. Maybe it is us making our own luck, if you will, by using a little more of our brain to influence our surroundings. That is why I question everything because I know I don't understand how the universe works. I think if we would scientifically search for more answers rather than blaming God or thanking God, we would be further along.

Maybe I am totally wrong and it is God taking time out from working on real world issues to help me a little when my life is screwed up.......
I give God credit for the good in my life and I give myself credit for the bad, because when I am in stronger relationship with Him, my life goes WAY better.

But science can only answer so much for you, you know? Science wasn't there in the beginning. Science can only theorize, and they do it badly, because their theories are very easily disproven. And even science cannot tell you where the very first matter of the Big Bang came from. Philosophiscally and scientifically, a Creator who created that first matter is required. There is absolutely no other possibility for where matter came from originally. Matter is made up of energy, and energy has to be transfered from someone or something. Because everything is very intelligently made, we assume a person with intelligence. It's logical. Makes perfect sense.

Heck, look at DNA. It has a literal programming language in it that is more complex than our computer systems. Did you know there's more information in a single cell than there is in an entire huge city?

What I don't understand is how a person can look at a computer and see that it was clearly programmed by a person, but they cannot look at DNA and see that it was clearly programmed by a person. Do you think after billions of years, this computer you're on would ever have evolved by itself? If not, then why mankind? Mankind is FAR more complex than this computer. It's completely irrational to think that way. Makes no logical sense, ya' know?

So, science may be able to answer some things, but it actually points to a Creator, not the lack there of.

Creation and a Creator makes far more sense, scientifically.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #25 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
This is why Scripture is debated, which is a good thing because it requires the debaters to read for themselves what God is telling them.
It requires the debaters to read it for themselves?? LOL Wow, I wish that were the truth. Unfortunately, people debate without ever reading the Bible, but rather, by just reading what other people say about the Bible or listening to others talk about it... and they actually think they understand it and can debate it. No offense to those people, though. Just stating a fact.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #26 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
because i just don't get it?

I don't have a problem with anyone worshipping anything as long as it is not pushed on others.

Feel free to worship your dog.....just don't try to get me to.

And please don't quote the Bible in any answers because I do not take it for the word of god seeing as it has gone thru countless editings and translations.
Oh, and by the way, Christians, if they worship with a sincere heart, get a TON of joy, peace and happiness out of worshipping God. There's hope and friendship from it as well as wisdom. Lots of things, really.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #27 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It seems to me that we like to give god credit for everything goor or bad in our lives. Maybe it is us making our own luck, if you will, by using a little more of our brain to influence our surroundings. That is why I question everything because I know I don't understand how the universe works. I think if we would scientifically search for more answers rather than blaming God or thanking God, we would be further along.

Maybe I am totally wrong and it is God taking time out from working on real world issues to help me a little when my life is screwed up.......
Where do you get this idea that God screws up anyone's life? That's not in the Bible anywhere that I'm aware of. At best, we see God giving Satan power to do that to people sometimes, but once the people overcome the trails they were put through, they come out WAY better than they started. Job, for instance, was given twice of everything he had before the trails started and he got rid of pride and fear in the process too.

If people say God does bad stuff to us, they don't know the Bible very well... they know religion.

And just to be clear, you aren't rebelling against God. You're rebelling against the god religion has told you exists, and that guy is much different than the real God. Religion paints God as someone quite a bit different than the real God, usually. That's why it's best to get to know Him on your own as much as possible instead of listening to mankind tell ya' about Him.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #28 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 05:07 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
There are no good or bad people, only good or bad choices, really.

Did you read the verse where it says that if a non-Christian is married to a Christian, because they are made "one", the Christian sanctifies the non-Christian? In other words, if an atheist marries a Christian, the Atheist is going to heaven with his/her Christian spouse. Interesting, no? So it would appear that even atheists can get into heaven through God's lovely little loopholes, which means when given the choice, even Atheists will choose God when standing in front of Him. Pretty cool, eh?
"God's lovely little loopholes"

Your theology is worse than I thought.
Phillystang is offline  
post #29 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-20-2010, 02:32 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
"God's lovely little loopholes"

Your theology is worse than I thought.
Great proof there, buddy. Way to be a scholar and debater.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #30 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
Great proof there, buddy. Way to be a scholar and debater.
It is difficult to debate with someone who is irrational.
Phillystang is offline  
post #31 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 01:15 AM
JKD
Gracie Jiu Jitsu Addict
 
JKD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
Posts: 16,273
If I went camping in the mountains and came back to DFWS to make a thread about when I got to the top of the mountain I talked to a burning bush then on the way back down I met a jewish zombie, you guys would think I was fucking nuts.

Shrimp'n ain't easy....
JKD is offline  
post #32 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 06:28 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD View Post
If I went camping in the mountains and came back to DFWS to make a thread about when I got to the top of the mountain I talked to a burning bush then on the way back down I met a jewish zombie, you guys would think I was fucking nuts.
Although your synopsis above includes a reposted moniker you plagarized from HobieF3, we'll let that slide since we shouldn't really expect much more than that.

If your audience had just been led out of captivity from Egypt and experienced the direct intervention of God, they just might listen to the man who had brokered the deal rather than thinking he was "fucking" nuts.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #33 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 06:41 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Plus, this post is turning into the standard religion thread.

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #34 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 08:18 AM
JKD
Gracie Jiu Jitsu Addict
 
JKD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
Posts: 16,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
Although your synopsis above includes a reposted moniker you plagarized from HobieF3, we'll let that slide since we shouldn't really expect much more than that.

If your audience had just been led out of captivity from Egypt and experienced the direct intervention of God, they just might listen to the man who had brokered the deal rather than thinking he was "fucking" nuts.
No matter what religous nonsense you regurgitate that you've read from a book, you still have no proof of heaven or hell.


Shrimp'n ain't easy....
JKD is offline  
post #35 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 08:37 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
You're confusing religion with theology.

No surprise there, many people who know little or nothing about either and simply regurgitate what they've "heard" or simply copy others' observations, make that same mistake.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #36 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 08:44 AM
Lifer
 
slow06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Arlington
Posts: 2,075
Jester I have struggled with this a lot lately. I agree that there is no indesputable physical proof of God existing and honestly the Bible is hard one to believe becasue of the human element. I was talking to a pastor at my church a few nights ago about that and how I honestly think I can argue against God's existence better than I can argue for it.

For me I just chose to believe it. There was no swaying proof, just my gut feeling (which is probably there becasue I was brought up christian) that God is out there. Having been there myself I can't look down on anybody who doesn't believe. For me it is harder to believe than to not believe, I struggle with it on a daily basis.

I think christians who come across as looking down or chastizing may have good intentions, but I hate the effects that they can have. I feel the same way you do about people in my own church sometimes.

I know you didn't want any verses so stop reading now if you don't want to see it, but this verse summarizes how I strive to treat people. It is not a popular one, but I wish it were:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

"A Republic, if you can keep it"
- Benjamin Franklin

The way to peaceably remove elected officials who deviate from the constitution of the United States of America...
www.blowoutcongress.com
slow06 is offline  
post #37 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 08:58 AM
Lifer
 
tenacious j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: arlington
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Jester I have struggled with this a lot lately. I agree that there is no indesputable physical proof of God existing and honestly the Bible is hard one to believe becasue of the human element. I was talking to a pastor at my church a few nights ago about that and how I honestly think I can argue against God's existence better than I can argue for it.

For me I just chose to believe it. There was no swaying proof, just my gut feeling (which is probably there becasue I was brought up christian) that God is out there. Having been there myself I can't look down on anybody who doesn't believe. For me it is harder to believe than to not believe, I struggle with it on a daily basis.

I think christians who come across as looking down or chastizing may have good intentions, but I hate the effects that they can have. I feel the same way you do about people in my own church sometimes.

I know you didn't want any verses so stop reading now if you don't want to see it, but this verse summarizes how I strive to treat people. It is not a popular one, but I wish it were:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17


good post.

i have struggled with Christianity a lot over the past couple years. i used to accept it all when i was a kid and i have gone from Christian to atheist to agnostic back and forth several times. i still try to study it a little but it usually leaves me more confused about the whole idea, but it is fun to talk about when people aren't being rude or dicks about it.

myspace.com/tylerdurdin
tenacious j is offline  
post #38 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 11:08 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
It is difficult to debate with someone who is irrational.
lol

Just explain how God randomly choosing whom will burn forever in hell and whom will be with Him in heaven is loving and merciful and shows His glory.

(I've asked many times, but you never answer)

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #39 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 11:16 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenacious j View Post
good post.

i have struggled with Christianity a lot over the past couple years. i used to accept it all when i was a kid and i have gone from Christian to atheist to agnostic back and forth several times. i still try to study it a little but it usually leaves me more confused about the whole idea, but it is fun to talk about when people aren't being rude or dicks about it.
Since you're into studying this stuff, if you want two books that will blow your mind in regard to Christianity, these two will do so:

www.fishhouseministries.com (click on The False Prophet or The Shining Man under Books in Print in the upper left section of the homepage)

I believe both of these books have absolute proof of God and the spiritual realm in them. I can confirm everything in the The Shining Man because I have done that type of work for over three years now. The False Prophet is a good place to start, but it really takes some heavy thought, where as The Shining Man is a lighter, easier read. Both books are free to read there online or to be printed out and read. Both are around 200 pages, The Shining Man is much faster to read since much of it is chat logs.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #40 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 11:23 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenacious j View Post
good post.

i have struggled with Christianity a lot over the past couple years. i used to accept it all when i was a kid and i have gone from Christian to atheist to agnostic back and forth several times. i still try to study it a little but it usually leaves me more confused about the whole idea, but it is fun to talk about when people aren't being rude or dicks about it.
Keep in mind that there is the god of religion which many churches feed you, and the actual God of the Bible whom is much different than this god that religion teaches us exists. Religion often is very bad at figuring out the true nature of God and who He really is. Mankind loves to screw up the things of God. Look at the Old Testament... God and the prophets were constantly fighting against the Jews whom were trying to change or get away from the Laws and practices God had given them. Those laws were set in place to allow a free society with as little sin as possible so the people could represent God's sinless nature of love. This is why the Founding Fathers built our Constitution on the Old Testament Law. It was the first free society that didn't even have a king of any kind to run it at first (the people begged for a king later and God finally allowed them to have kings). So you have Christians and Jews to thank for this free society you live in. Before, if you didn't believe in God in most countries, you would be killed, thanks to religion.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #41 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 11:29 AM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
lol

Just explain how God randomly choosing whom will burn forever in hell and whom will be with Him in heaven is loving and merciful and shows His glory.

(I've asked many times, but you never answer)
The Bible clearly teaches vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. Perhaps you used a sharpie and crossed out this section in your bible?

Romans 9

22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’ ”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called m‘sons of the living God.’ ”
Phillystang is offline  
post #42 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 04:55 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
The Bible clearly teaches vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. Perhaps you used a sharpie and crossed out this section in your bible?

Romans 9

22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’ ”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called m‘sons of the living God.’ ”
You still are not answering my question. Any idiot can take a verse out of context and use it for whatever purposes he or she wishes. That's not what I want you to do. I asked you to EXPLAIN HOW sending people to hell randomly against their will shows God's love, mercy and glory. Are you comprehending my question? If so, then answer it.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #43 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 11:49 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
You still are not answering my question. Any idiot can take a verse out of context and use it for whatever purposes he or she wishes. That's not what I want you to do. I asked you to EXPLAIN HOW sending people to hell randomly against their will shows God's love, mercy and glory. Are you comprehending my question? If so, then answer it.
Sorry buddy boy, that verse is in the context of matters of salvation. It just goes against your philosophy.

Where did I ever say it was random? Where did I ever say it was against their will? Where did I ever say it shows God's love or mercy? You want me to answer questions if which I do not even affirm. lol.
Phillystang is offline  
post #44 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 03:18 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
Sorry buddy boy, that verse is in the context of matters of salvation. It just goes against your philosophy.

Where did I ever say it was random? Where did I ever say it was against their will? Where did I ever say it shows God's love or mercy? You want me to answer questions if which I do not even affirm. lol.
LOL Dude, you've claimed all of those things in the past. And now you suddenly are trying to make it like you never claimed it's against their will and that it shows God's love and mercy?? That's pathetic... You really should remember what you've said in the past, boy.

Okay, let's try this again, then. I'm going to ask you questions. You answer them.

1 - How does God choose whom He saves?

2 - Does man's will play any part in God's choice?

3 - Since God never changes, and God is loving and merciful, wouldn't all of His actions be done in love and mercy?

4 - If so, explain how love and mercy figure into the parts of the Bible where God must clear out a sinful people from the promised land even if it means killing them?

If you answer with verses, also give your reasoning for what the verses mean and how they answer the questions. Then we will see if you believe the things I claimed of you.

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #45 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
LOL Dude, you've claimed all of those things in the past. And now you suddenly are trying to make it like you never claimed it's against their will and that it shows God's love and mercy?? That's pathetic... You really should remember what you've said in the past, boy.
I'll get to the rest when I have time, but just because you imply something, doesn't mean I believe it. If you want to post quotes of me that is fine.
Phillystang is offline  
post #46 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 08:07 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
I'll get to the rest when I have time, but just because you imply something, doesn't mean I believe it. If you want to post quotes of me that is fine.
I'm not going through your old posts. It would take years. lol Just answer my questions and we'll see exactly what you believe, and it'll like up with basically everything I just stated which you tried to sidestep cleverly...

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #47 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 08:28 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
I'm not going through your old posts. It would take years. lol Just answer my questions and we'll see exactly what you believe, and it'll like up with basically everything I just stated which you tried to sidestep cleverly...
So you want me to prove stuff that I may not necessarily believe?
Phillystang is offline  
post #48 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 08:51 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
So you want me to prove stuff that I may not necessarily believe?
I want you to answer the questions!

- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO
BrianC is offline  
post #49 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 09:34 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lewisville/flower mound
Posts: 1,518
How do you know for sure that Christianity is the right way? With so many religions out there, how do you know that you are right? Maybe the muslims are right...maybe the Jews are right...maybe the budhists are right...maybe the atheists are right. At the end of the day all major religions are basically the same. They all have a martyr of some sort, they all have a book of tales and they all have the same basic rules.

I'm not a beleiver in any religion, but I do not knock those who do. An overwhelming majority of people in the world beleive in a God. Does it make sense... not really, but if it helps people feel better about themselves and stay on the right path in life then so be it.

Christians get mad when Muslims come to America and try to convert them, but those same Christians have no issues going on "mission" trips to the middle east to try and convert Muslims. Then they wonder why they are held hostage in the middle east and get their heads cut off on live T.V.

I'm not knocking Christianity. I think the Bible is a good book that everyone should read. It has a lot of good teachings and moral stories that we as humans should absorb, but it was written by man. I can say the same about the Quaraan or any other religious text. Most of them are similar to each other and worth reading.

All religions have big holes in their theories, but if beleiving in something helps people accomplish what they need to then so be it. Just don't rip on me for not beleiving.




2011 Jeep Wrangler
1993 Mustang GT (getting molested daily)

CLICK ON THIS LINK IF YOU HATE MR. EDD
https://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/show...63#post6264063

Last edited by kennybo; 05-22-2010 at 09:47 PM.
kennybo is offline  
post #50 of 217 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 10:13 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all have the same beginning.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome