I think completely for myself. Where do I once bring up someone else? That's right, this is just another baseless claim.
Really? REALLY?? Are you gonna' just flat out lie? First of all, you quote exactly the verses other Calvinists quote, and in private conversations, you've listed out all of the teachers you listen to on the radio! ALL CALVINISTS! LOL I mean, come on, man... stop trying to "win" the debate and start being truthful for a change. You're just waisting my time...
Ahh, but in your view God's sacrifice is not enough to secure anyone's salvation. Salvation therefore must depend on man's will in your view to seal the deal. God just happens to get lucky that some men and women do their part to make salvation possible.
In the biblical view, salvation does depend on God.
Once again, you show your complete and utter lack of critical thinking. I'm sorry your brain doesn't work past step 1 of the deduction and reasoning process. I can't cure stupid.
You still don't get it... that nothing matters without free-will, and you can't even see how it makes God a horrific, tyrannical psychopath. I mean, that's just sad... And you don't realize how it is LOVE to ALLOW us to choose for ourselves. God can do everything in His power to push us in the right direction and encourage us to make the right decision on salvation, but He cannot make that choice for us. To make that choice for us is not love. It's hate. Because it chooses one over another and doesn't give the unchosen one chance to repent or do anything to save themselves. How sick and twisted is that?
I want to see you in a seat of authority choosing to lives or dies and tell me how glorious and loving it makes you feel. You'd double over and start throwing up like a little girl the first time you had to choose someone to die and had to watch them die. You sit and judge the rest of us as if we're stupid because we don't see the non-existent lack of free-will in scripture like you apparently do, but all you're doing is showing how badly you've been schooled...
Where is that in THIS text we are discussing?
And now you're showing that you don't know the Bible very well, which we already were well aware of...
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Learn your Bible, man! You're lookin' like a complete idiot here. These are very well known verses.
Is this meant to be serious? Where do I ever mention Calvin?
Seriously?? Holy crap... You're now going to play this game with me? In our private discussions, we've discussed how your views are Calvinistic and we even discussed Calvin himself! You're like the most Calvinistic person I know! Dude, you need to stop playing these "I just wanna win the debate" games... It's making you look really pathetic, like you're just grasping for straws and trying to be deceptive. It's blatant. We all know you're a Calvinist. In fact, this thread was a challenge to Calvinists! The fact that you're answering it means you're Calvinist! How stupid do you have to be to try to suddenly distance yourself from Calvinism when it's that obvious??
Are you going to give another message on manipulation? lol.
Why do some love God and some hate Him?
You must ask why the language of "vengeance" and "smiting" is even in the bible if you deny that the Lord does this. Careless use of language here on your part when the bible so clearly describes the Lord as doing these things.
So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.
"I will smite them with pestilence and dispossess them, and I will make you into a nation greater and mightier than they."
Once again, we see that the Scriptures rebuke your teachings here Brian.
Scriptures 3, Brian 0
(notice I don't need Calvin or any other man to argue from the viewpoint of)
Oh, I have no problem with what you just said. You're exactly right and I believe exactly the same. The problem is...
I wasn't talking about the Old Testament! I'm talking about end-time prophecy! Did you not catch that?? Prior to Christ's coming, God had reason to carry out His wrath on mankind and was fully justified in doing so to protect His people from those seeking to kill them. But once Jesus came, the world was reconciled to God through Jesus' blood. Jesus purchased EVERYONE. And now, everyone has to make a choice as to whether they will accept Jesus or deny Him. He said, in the New Testament, that He's reserving His wrath for the day of the Lord. So He's holding it back.
What I was referring to specifically was end-time prophecy. In the end, God's wrath is simlpy tossing people into hell, because they wanted separation from God. It's what they wanted if they didn't choose Him, and so He's giving it to them. All of the language you see in prophecy which speaks of horsemen and armageddon is just figurative language which the people in those days could relate to, because the lives involved things being used in the descriptions. Most of it is speaking about what's happening in the spiritual realm. For instance, horsemen always symbolizes evil spirits. We know this because Zecheriah 6:1-9 tells us what horsemen symbolize in prophecy. The Old Testament tells us that seas/oceans are symbolic for people, and beasts are nations, and horns are leaders of nations, etc. (refer to Daniel 7-8). It's all figurative language.
Think about it like this... we're told that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord in the end. How can people on earth do that if He and His army are slaughtering those people? It makes no sense. No, He's coming back and everyone will bow in His presence and confess He is Lord, and then He will judge what's in their hearts and give them what they want. Everything in the Old Testament, the things Israel went through and what Israel represented and what the Law was for... all of that was so that God could use it as an example and shape prophecy with those symbols. That way, for a person to truly understand the prophecies, one would really have to have a firm grasp on the Old Testament. Keep studying, Junior.
What? How you think my God failed is beyond me? Proof contextually that it only means Christians is that in the CONTEXT of last days writing to comfort the CHRISTIANS telling them that God is patient with them, that the day of judgement would not occur until every one who is to believe comes to repentance.
If your view is correct, then the Day of Judgement will never take place because God's equal patience would have to wait for every single person ever born to come to repentance.
Great... here we go again...
Again, I say, how would the passage make any sense in your doctrine for God to wait around for only His people to come to repentance? He can make every one of them repent INSTANTLY according to you! Why the heck does He have to wait thousands of years?? He could just create all the people, send a big lot to hell and keep the others in heaven whom He was planning to save. What is the point?? Does God like to sit around and watch the death and destruction here on earth? Is it some sick obsession of His? Sorry, but you're full of crap. Because of free-will, God has to wait till the time of the end, which He designated, so that His word has time to spread around the earth and so that billions can be born and hear the message and have a chance to accept Him of their own free-will. It is His will that everyone would do so, and He will give time enough so that great multitudes have a chance to hear His message and choose for themselves.
Sorry, but I'm not rehashing this one again. I've bent you over my knee tons of times on this one. Not commenting on it again.
As for God failing, it is YOUR view that paints God as a failure.
Anyone who can read can clearly see the syllogism:
A. God would have everyone saved
B. Everyone is not saved
C. God failed at some point in not saving everyone and gets lucky for the one's that decide to take Him up on His offer of salvation.
Again, TOTALLY CRITICAL THINKING FAIL!
In my view, God gave us free-will (just like the Bible says in Genesis 1:26-28 - gee, imagine that)! It is not God's failure, but rather man's failure! You said God failed in my view because He didn't save everyone. But that implies God has the ability to go against their free-will to save them! lol It's like your tiny little mind cannot think outside the realm of your doctrine. You can't even think from a position of someone else's doctrine, because you can't comprehend it. And it makes your arguments, such as the one above, completely illogical! Thanks again for proving my point...
or we could say...
A. God wants no one in the entire world (not simply Christians) to perish
B. Some perish
C. God failed
Please, keep it up. You're just further proving you haven't a clue what free-will means in regard to doctrine. Your logic, again, is completely fail.
God fully succeeded in dying for the sins of mankind and reconciling us to Him. His success is complete, 100%, in that single act. Now, it is left to a simple choice for us. That's it. It's on OUR heads now. We succeed or we fail by the choice we make. It's that simple.
In your view, God has the ability to save everyone, and yet chooses not to. Explain exactly how that shows His love and glory! Explain it!