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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Question for non-believers

If you are a believer, please stay out of this thread as it is for non believers. However, feel free to read and learn.

So, as a non believer you stumble into this forum for whatever reason.

How would you expect the believers posting here to behave? What kinds of posts/responses would you expect/want to see, and what kids of posts/responses are total turnoffs, and reinforce the stereotypes that you would expect from believers?

Please keep it civil.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 07:24 PM
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No offense, but this forum is called The "Theology" Corner, theology being the study of religious faith and/or the relation of God to our lives. How then do nonbelievers' opinions and expectations regarding something they think is nonsense fit the intent of this specific forum, and would this thread not be better suited to the Back Porch?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
If you are a believer, please stay out of this thread as it is for non believers. However, feel free to read and learn.

So, as a non believer you stumble into this forum for whatever reason.

How would you expect the believers posting here to behave? What kinds of posts/responses would you expect/want to see, and what kids of posts/responses are total turnoffs, and reinforce the stereotypes that you would expect from believers?

Please keep it civil.
You know what's fucked up? I don't think I've once seen a "believers" post start out with "Non-believers, stay out of this thread." I've had some very non-constructive debates with believers in this forum and would like to keep it that way.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by poopnut2 View Post
You know what's fucked up? I don't think I've once seen a "believers" post start out with "Non-believers, stay out of this thread." I've had some very non-constructive debates with believers in this forum and would like to keep it that way.
The point of this thread is to find out what we, as believers, may be doing wrong with our witness. If the idea is to lead people to Christ (and it is), then what are we doing, as Christians, to turn OFF people from Christ. That is what i'm asking. You know that Christ hung out with the sinners, right? I'm pretty sure that he was approaching them with love, and not calling them names or otherwise spouting off criticism (as i've seen here). Otherwise they would not have tolerated him. Look at Luke 5:31-32, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but to call sinners to repentance". While Christ never compromised his position, he did hang around people that needed him.

Honestly, i've seen a ton of posts here that (IMO) are NOT WWJD or what he might say. Can you imagine Christ calling someone a faggot or going on with the gay insults?

Attack me as you will.

Last edited by mikeb; 07-10-2009 at 10:58 PM.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:12 PM
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I have not come to call the righteous, but to call sinners to repentance". While Christ never compromised his position, he did hang around people that needed him.
Honestly, i've seen a ton of posts here that (IMO) are NOT WWJD or what he might say. Can you imagine Christ calling someone a faggot or going on with the gay insults
x2. I think if we tried being Christ-like instead of Christians the perceptions would begin to change. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. It seems that many share the perspective that sinners are going to hell and we need to stay away from them or we will too. Instead we should see an opportunity to speak of the unconditional love Christ offers.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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x2. I think if we tried being Christ-like instead of Christians the perceptions would begin to change. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. It seems that many share the perspective that sinners are going to hell and we need to stay away from them or we will too. Instead we should see an opportunity to speak of the unconditional love Christ offers.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 06:27 AM
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One of the main reasons I rarely post in here is because people are too busy trying to get you to change your beliefs rather than listening to what you are saying. The whole quoting bible verses as a response is pretty annoying as well. If you can't even articulate your own feelings on a subject without quoting something else, are you really sure you understand what you're talking about?
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 12:35 PM
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Honestly, i've seen a ton of posts here that (IMO) are NOT WWJD or what he might say. Can you imagine Christ calling someone a faggot or going on with the gay insults?
In what posts in this forum has a believer called anyone a faggot or issued gay insults? I am guilty of having done so, to excess, in other forums but never in this one. If you disagree, find any post in here where I did so and I will eat crow. It's probably just as bad to call someone stupid, ignorant, a dumbass, or an asshole in here though, and I am guilty of having done that.

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Originally Posted by 5point0pony
I think if we tried being Christ-like instead of Christians the perceptions would begin to change. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. It seems that many share the perspective that sinners are going to hell and we need to stay away from them or we will too. Instead we should see an opportunity to speak of the unconditional love Christ offers.
I have always maintained in this forum that nobody is necessarily "going to hell" for their sins until God so decides. Satan, the Beast, and the false prophet are the only ones guaranteed to be cast into the lake of fire (place of eternal torment) for their having knowingly and intentionally rejected God. The rest of us have not yet been judged nor will we be until the Second Coming.

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Originally Posted by talisman
The whole quoting bible verses as a response is pretty annoying as well. If you can't even articulate your own feelings on a subject without quoting something else, are you really sure you understand what you're talking about?
The Bible is at the heart of Christianity, and it is thus enrirely appropriate to quote from it in responses posted in this forum.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2009, 05:40 AM
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I don't believe in religion at all, and the main thing that bothers me is the fact that most believers take that so extremely personally and offensively. I'm not trying to hurt you, I don't care what you believe, go on and believe it, and I will go on and "non-believe" what I choose.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-28-2009, 11:09 AM
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I've been in this forum MAYBE two or three times. The main reason I don't want to be a part of the conversations that go on in here is because it seems that people on both sides of the belief fence act in a manner that is non-conducive to discussing and learning about what others believe, feel, and see. In a perfect world maybe non-believers, believers, and everyone in between could actually learn some perspectives from one another but the raging opinions on all sides is a direct turn off to those of us who would just like to read the threads and maybe even take something from them. It seems that believers should be patient and kind. I don't see that a lot... especially on this board. I also don't understand why the non-believers have to attack the beliefs of others. In all honesty if you don't believe then why should you care what others believe? And vice versa... If you believe then why try and interfere with other people’s ideals? I personally don't understand the bickering and arguments that go on in here so I just steer clear.
post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RedLilPony View Post
I've been in this forum MAYBE two or three times. The main reason I don't want to be a part of the conversations that go on in here is because it seems that people on both sides of the belief fence act in a manner that is non-conducive to discussing and learning about what others believe, feel, and see. In a perfect world maybe non-believers, believers, and everyone in between could actually learn some perspectives from one another but the raging opinions on all sides is a direct turn off to those of us who would just like to read the threads and maybe even take something from them. It seems that believers should be patient and kind. I don't see that a lot... especially on this board. I also don't understand why the non-believers have to attack the beliefs of others. In all honesty if you don't believe then why should you care what others believe? And vice versa... If you believe then why try and interfere with other peopleís ideals? I personally don't understand the bickering and arguments that go on in here so I just steer clear.
Makes sense to me. I have read alot of The Bible, and I think it has some good lessons to be learned in it, but I just can't get my logical brain to believe in something that was handed down orally so long, then written down, then re-written and modified, then modified some more, then had different versions published simultaneously. I like to read, and these books are no exception, but to me that is all that they are: books with lessons to be learned.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
If you are a believer, please stay out of this thread as it is for non believers. However, feel free to read and learn.

So, as a non believer you stumble into this forum for whatever reason.

How would you expect the believers posting here to behave? What kinds of posts/responses would you expect/want to see, and what kids of posts/responses are total turnoffs, and reinforce the stereotypes that you would expect from believers?

Please keep it civil.
As it pertains to what? How they react to non believers or how they interact with each other?

I have a couple of things to say.. First of all, as others have said, I generally just avoid this forum because it doesn't interest me in the least. I happen in here today only because I am bored and there isn't much going on with the rest of the board.

Secondly, what I would expect from someone that claims to be a believer is a commitment from that person, particularly to attempt to live their life the way their religion expects them to. I wouldn't expect them to say, post, whatever anything they wouldn't if they personally knew their pastor (or whatever) was going to hear or read. Or anything their grandmother would, for that matter.

Now, I haven't read these threads so I don't know what is actually happening there but I know I see an awful lot of hypocrisy outside of the board. Some among friends, coworkers and others I am around daily. I understand that people aren’t perfect, but some people seem to make very little effort at all. Let’s look at just general language.. I hear many god fearing people cuss; speak badly about others, etc. Now, those same people can do an excellent job of cleaning up their language in the presence of kids, or at work, so why can't they do it all of the time? Lack of commitment, in my opinion.

I don't believe.. I have tried, believe me. I would love to believe there was something more. I have regularly attended a number of churches, fully immersed myself in the lifestyle, prayed.. All that was asked of me. I did have glimpses of what I thought might become a true belief but it never quite stuck. I have also gone the route of just playing along, just in case it is real, and lived the way one would expect a Christian to. Read the bible daily, went to multiple meetings a week, avoided becoming overly involved in worldly things.. It was just a matter of making a decision to stick to it. No different than choosing to work out, live a healthy lifestyle, etc. Ultimately I felt like it was useless and gave it up, though I still live just as moral a lifestyle as most Christians, I just don't feel bad and repent for actions that I feel aren't really bad (drinking, smoking, etc.)

For the record, I am agnostic.. I don't deny there is a god, for all I know one could exist. I am just not convinced.

Now, I say all of this in a very matter of fact sort of way, completely non confrontational and purely in response to the question asked..

Discuss?

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2009, 08:25 PM
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As it pertains to what? How they react to non believers or how they interact with each other?

I have a couple of things to say.. First of all, as others have said, I generally just avoid this forum because it doesn't interest me in the least. I happen in here today only because I am bored and there isn't much going on with the rest of the board.

Secondly, what I would expect from someone that claims to be a believer is a commitment from that person, particularly to attempt to live their life the way their religion expects them to. I wouldn't expect them to say, post, whatever anything they wouldn't if they personally knew their pastor (or whatever) was going to hear or read. Or anything their grandmother would, for that matter.

Now, I haven't read these threads so I don't know what is actually happening there but I know I see an awful lot of hypocrisy outside of the board. Some among friends, coworkers and others I am around daily. I understand that people arenít perfect, but some people seem to make very little effort at all. Letís look at just general language.. I hear many god fearing people cuss; speak badly about others, etc. Now, those same people can do an excellent job of cleaning up their language in the presence of kids, or at work, so why can't they do it all of the time? Lack of commitment, in my opinion.

I don't believe.. I have tried, believe me. I would love to believe there was something more. I have regularly attended a number of churches, fully immersed myself in the lifestyle, prayed.. All that was asked of me. I did have glimpses of what I thought might become a true belief but it never quite stuck. I have also gone the route of just playing along, just in case it is real, and lived the way one would expect a Christian to. Read the bible daily, went to multiple meetings a week, avoided becoming overly involved in worldly things.. It was just a matter of making a decision to stick to it. No different than choosing to work out, live a healthy lifestyle, etc. Ultimately I felt like it was useless and gave it up, though I still live just as moral a lifestyle as most Christians, I just don't feel bad and repent for actions that I feel aren't really bad (drinking, smoking, etc.)

For the record, I am agnostic.. I don't deny there is a god, for all I know one could exist. I am just not convinced.

Now, I say all of this in a very matter of fact sort of way, completely non confrontational and purely in response to the question asked..

Discuss?
I've had some good, and some bad conversations in this forum. For the most part, I avoid it now. It's basically the same thing over and over. A christian posts playing the victim or an atheist posts...also playing the victim. I won't consider myself anything. Not even agnostic. I am a man. I live my life. I have regrets. I hope to learn from my mistakes if for nothing else, self-preservation. If somebody needs to believe in God to sleep better, so be it. If somebody else wants refuses to believe in God because there's no physical proof, whatever. Just leave eachother the fuck alone and live your own lives.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2009, 11:01 PM
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I don't post in this forum cause I see religion as another form of government. And I hate the government. If you don't believe one way you are wrong, if you don't believe the other way you are wrong. There will always be debates and there will never be any winners, or there will never be a religion that is the best religion.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:30 AM
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i dont post in this forum because. oh wait, shit i just did.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 10:08 AM
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This is my first venture into this forum because I saw this thread title from the main page...but I dont buy into the whole religion thing. If a good person that provides for his family, is a good father and husband and does for others but doesnt believe in the nonsense in the bible cannot get into heaven...if there is one...then I dont want to go. But to answer the question, nothing that a believer can say will change the mind of a nonbeliever. They have to make that change on their own based on their own experiences...
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chili View Post
As it pertains to what? How they react to non believers or how they interact with each other?


Secondly, what I would expect from someone that claims to be a believer is a commitment from that person, particularly to attempt to live their life the way their religion expects them to. I wouldn't expect them to say, post, whatever anything they wouldn't if they personally knew their pastor (or whatever) was going to hear or read. Or anything their grandmother would, for that matter.

Now, I haven't read these threads so I don't know what is actually happening there but I know I see an awful lot of hypocrisy outside of the board. Some among friends, coworkers and others I am around daily. I understand that people arenít perfect, but some people seem to make very little effort at all. Letís look at just general language.. I hear many god fearing people cuss; speak badly about others, etc. Now, those same people can do an excellent job of cleaning up their language in the presence of kids, or at work, so why can't they do it all of the time? Lack of commitment, in my opinion.
Discuss?

DItto from me except that I still believe in Jesus and all that, it's just the perversion and hypocrisy that happens when man gets involved - preachers and flock alike. The condescencion levied on poor sinners vs. those with money is comical. Most preachers I've met are businessmen selling Jesus. They don't mind organizing a mission to Africa but can't be bothered to drive 5 blocks over to help their neighbors.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 07:09 PM
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I just don't feel bad and repent for actions that I feel aren't really bad (drinking, smoking, etc.)
From the Book of Genesis, that is exactly what Adam and Eve did, along with many of their descendants ever since. They decided that they would determine for themselves what should be deemed right or wrong, rather than listening to God.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 09:04 PM
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From the Book of Genesis, that is exactly what Adam and Eve did, along with many of their descendants ever since. They decided that they would determine for themselves what should be deemed right or wrong, rather than listening to God.
So I'm in good company!

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2009, 11:06 AM
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 12:50 PM
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I expect believers to recruit, based on personal experience. I do understand though. Religeon is our number 3 industry today... behind only sex and drugs. There will always be a profit in selling salvation.

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 10:15 AM
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In what posts in this forum has a believer called anyone a faggot or issued gay insults? I am guilty of having done so, to excess, in other forums but never in this one. If you disagree, find any post in here where I did so and I will eat crow. It's probably just as bad to call someone stupid, ignorant, a dumbass, or an asshole in here though, and I am guilty of having done that.



I have always maintained in this forum that nobody is necessarily "going to hell" for their sins until God so decides. Satan, the Beast, and the false prophet are the only ones guaranteed to be cast into the lake of fire (place of eternal torment) for their having knowingly and intentionally rejected God. The rest of us have not yet been judged nor will we be until the Second Coming.



The Bible is at the heart of Christianity, and it is thus enrirely appropriate to quote from it in responses posted in this forum.
What does this mean I dont get it?

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