Unbelievers...what is the reason(s) you don't believe? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Unbelievers...what is the reason(s) you don't believe?

Unbelievers...what is the reason(s) you don't believe? Did you ever believe? If so, what was it that made you stop? If you don't believe are you looking for a reason to believe?

The reason I ask is, I have noticed some people that seem to not believe, but ask questions that seem like good questions (as if they are trying to learn more or figure things out), instead of asking to test the Christians on their knowledge and trying to win a debate. I will have to say, I don't like defending my faith to people that are trying to mock it. But, for the most part, every discussion I have had here lately hasn't had too many low blows.
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post #2 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 07:59 AM
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Hmmmm... Very interesting. Actually I really don't know how we got here and how we ended up how we are. I hate it when people say god does this and god does that? Maybe he did maybe he didn't? Maybe it was hard work maybe it was luck? But why does luck have to mean god and why does hard work mean god paid you with that?

To me I know there is a reason whatever it is i'd like to know and be shown rather than told. I mean what if someone got the story all screwed up and when you die you die and that's it. But a friend of mine once asked me if god came down to you right now and talked with you do you think you'd change? I said yes. Then he brought up the story of adam and eve and how they knew he was the god almighty and they still screwed up.

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post #3 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 08:05 AM
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I don't have a problem with God,... just some of his followers.

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post #4 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 08:48 AM
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I'm completely comfortable acknowledging the fact that I (nor human beings in general) don't know everything. I don't need to believe in some book to add structure to my life, or to feel whole. A large portion of my family is Southern Baptist, but I was raised by my parents going to a Methodist church every week. I went to the church camps, and vacation bible school, etc etc. As a kid, I believed what I was being told because the adults were telling it to me. At that time, to not believe would be like calling them all liars. As I grew older and wiser, I realized that they weren't really lying. They were just telling me what they believed was true. I think there's a real good chance that they're wrong, but I don't blame them for believing in the Bible and wanting me to believe as well. I do, however, think that hard-core believers of any religion are a little foolish and naive for assuming that they really have the answers, and that in a world of so many different beliefs, their beliefs must be right and the beliefs of others must be wrong. No matter what you say, the FACT is that nobody really knows exactly where we came from, or exactly what happens when we die. If believing in something makes your life better in some way, then more power to you.

When I really think about, I like to think that their is probably a God of some type. But maybe the truth behind him and his story is nothing like what any of the religions say. Or maybe he's a mix of all of them, somehow. Or, maybe the Christians are spot on. Maybe the Muslims are right. Maybe the Bhuddists have it all figured out. Or heck, maybe it can all be explained with science. Really, who fucking knows? That's my stance. Who knows? I don't, and I can admit it. And I like to believe that if there is a God, that he's a pretty cool dude. The God I like to believe exists would respect the fact that I wanted to hold off on choosing a religion or claiming that I have it figured out, and instead waited until I could high five him and chat it up face-to-face. At the very least, I think he'd be cool enough to tell me or show me the truth after I die, or whenever he comes back, or whatever, and then let me absorb it and become a believer at that time. And if he isn't at least that cool, then why would I want to worship him anyway? So in a way, I'm gambling less than the hard-core religious peeps. With all of the choices, you picked one religion and latched on. A lot of people have to be wrong for you to be right. Instead, I'm leaving my options open. I'm gonna stay undecided for now, and just wait and see who's right, or if anyone is even right. I have absolutely no motivation to pick one and roll with it. Maybe God will be cool with that. Maybe he won't. Maybe there is no such thing. It's whatever.
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post #5 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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I don't have a problem with God,... just some of his followers.

I am with you on that. I'm a Christian and I get pissed of at some of the followers. Some Christians have no clue about who God is. They are quick to judge and act like they are holier than everyone.
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post #6 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:53 AM
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I haven't seen/heard/felt anything to make me WANT to believe.

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post #7 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Hmmmm... Very interesting. Actually I really don't know how we got here and how we ended up how we are. I hate it when people say god does this and god does that? Maybe he did maybe he didn't? Maybe it was hard work maybe it was luck? But why does luck have to mean god and why does hard work mean god paid you with that?

To me I know there is a reason whatever it is i'd like to know and be shown rather than told. I mean what if someone got the story all screwed up and when you die you die and that's it. But a friend of mine once asked me if god came down to you right now and talked with you do you think you'd change? I said yes. Then he brought up the story of adam and eve and how they knew he was the god almighty and they still screwed up.


I see what you are saying. It is hard to believe in something, especially if it isn't the correct teaching. I
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post #8 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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I haven't seen/heard/felt anything to make me WANT to believe.


Fair enough.
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post #9 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:57 AM
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For me, the problem isn't belief in God, it's belief in the super-flawed horse hockey that is organized religion. Between the dogma that sounds like a bunch of fantasy BS, and the people that run the show: I'm out. I don't need all that mess to be just fine with God.

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post #10 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jluv View Post
I'm completely comfortable acknowledging the fact that I (nor human beings in general) don't know everything. I don't need to believe in some book to add structure to my life, or to feel whole. A large portion of my family is Southern Baptist, but I was raised by my parents going to a Methodist church every week. I went to the church camps, and vacation bible school, etc etc. As a kid, I believed what I was being told because the adults were telling it to me. At that time, to not believe would be like calling them all liars. As I grew older and wiser, I realized that they weren't really lying. They were just telling me what they believed was true. I think there's a real good chance that they're wrong, but I don't blame them for believing in the Bible and wanting me to believe as well. I do, however, think that hard-core believers of any religion are a little foolish and naive for assuming that they really have the answers, and that in a world of so many different beliefs, their beliefs must be right and the beliefs of others must be wrong. No matter what you say, the FACT is that nobody really knows exactly where we came from, or exactly what happens when we die. If believing in something makes your life better in some way, then more power to you.

When I really think about, I like to think that their is probably a God of some type. But maybe the truth behind him and his story is nothing like what any of the religions say. Or maybe he's a mix of all of them, somehow. Or, maybe the Christians are spot on. Maybe the Muslims are right. Maybe the Bhuddists have it all figured out. Or heck, maybe it can all be explained with science. Really, who fucking knows? That's my stance. Who knows? I don't, and I can admit it. And I like to believe that if there is a God, that he's a pretty cool dude. The God I like to believe exists would respect the fact that I wanted to hold off on choosing a religion or claiming that I have it figured out, and instead waited until I could high five him and chat it up face-to-face. At the very least, I think he'd be cool enough to tell me or show me the truth after I die, or whenever he comes back, or whatever, and then let me absorb it and become a believer at that time. And if he isn't at least that cool, then why would I want to worship him anyway? So in a way, I'm gambling less than the hard-core religious peeps. With all of the choices, you picked one religion and latched on. A lot of people have to be wrong for you to be right. Instead, I'm leaving my options open. I'm gonna stay undecided for now, and just wait and see who's right, or if anyone is even right. I have absolutely no motivation to pick one and roll with it. Maybe God will be cool with that. Maybe he won't. Maybe there is no such thing. It's whatever.
I competely agree with your first paragraph, you and I had similar upbringings and I pretty much feel the same way

On the second, I think that is an excellent way to look at it, but I am leaning towards not thinking there is a God. I am thinking the more realistic explanation is scientific.

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post #11 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:09 AM
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Also, when you were in grade school....remember when the teacher would play the game where she would tell a student something, and that student would say it to the student next to them and so on and so on until it was passed all the way around the class? Remember that when it got back to the teacher? it was ALWAYS completely fucked and usually in no way related to the original phrase.


The Bible, Koran etc have been passed around for thousands of years.


That's my stance on the Bible. And yes, I damn near read all of it when I was younger.

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post #12 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:11 AM
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I was raised Lutheran, I don't really know when the fallout was, quit going after confirmation around 15, during college I just dropped any notion that the major religions, and possibly ANY organized religion may all be just a scam. I don't want a god to prove itself to me, I don't desire a sign of their existence, I desire peace between the religions and humankind. The universe as we see it is beautiful, all life should be revered.

I don't believe that we go to a worse place in the after life, and I don't believe we don't just go *poof*, but I haven't really worked out all the details...and neither has any other person still alive.
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post #13 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:12 AM
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I'm completely comfortable acknowledging the fact that I (nor human beings in general) don't know everything. I don't need to believe in some book to add structure to my life, or to feel whole. If believing in something makes your life better in some way, then more power to you.

Well said, I feel the same way. I'm happy and content with the way I am and how I live my life. I don't need a book, church, or believers to try and preach to me something no one can truly verify. Till the end of time we will never really know how all was really created.

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post #14 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:13 AM
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I've already found faith in a another religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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post #15 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Txstang1 View Post
Also, when you were in grade school....remember when the teacher would play the game where she would tell a student something, and that student would say it to the student next to them and so on and so on until it was passed all the way around the class? Remember that when it got back to the teacher? it was ALWAYS completely fucked and usually in no way related to the original phrase.
Telephone, and yep, exactly how I think about it

Last edited by greenrebel; 06-05-2009 at 10:53 AM.
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post #16 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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I'm completely comfortable acknowledging the fact that I (nor human beings in general) don't know everything. I don't need to believe in some book to add structure to my life, or to feel whole. A large portion of my family is Southern Baptist, but I was raised by my parents going to a Methodist church every week. I went to the church camps, and vacation bible school, etc etc. As a kid, I believed what I was being told because the adults were telling it to me. At that time, to not believe would be like calling them all liars. As I grew older and wiser, I realized that they weren't really lying. They were just telling me what they believed was true. I think there's a real good chance that they're wrong, but I don't blame them for believing in the Bible and wanting me to believe as well. I do, however, think that hard-core believers of any religion are a little foolish and naive for assuming that they really have the answers, and that in a world of so many different beliefs, their beliefs must be right and the beliefs of others must be wrong. No matter what you say, the FACT is that nobody really knows exactly where we came from, or exactly what happens when we die. If believing in something makes your life better in some way, then more power to you.

When I really think about, I like to think that their is probably a God of some type. But maybe the truth behind him and his story is nothing like what any of the religions say. Or maybe he's a mix of all of them, somehow. Or, maybe the Christians are spot on. Maybe the Muslims are right. Maybe the Bhuddists have it all figured out. Or heck, maybe it can all be explained with science. Really, who fucking knows? That's my stance. Who knows? I don't, and I can admit it. And I like to believe that if there is a God, that he's a pretty cool dude. The God I like to believe exists would respect the fact that I wanted to hold off on choosing a religion or claiming that I have it figured out, and instead waited until I could high five him and chat it up face-to-face. At the very least, I think he'd be cool enough to tell me or show me the truth after I die, or whenever he comes back, or whatever, and then let me absorb it and become a believer at that time. And if he isn't at least that cool, then why would I want to worship him anyway? So in a way, I'm gambling less than the hard-core religious peeps. With all of the choices, you picked one religion and latched on. A lot of people have to be wrong for you to be right. Instead, I'm leaving my options open. I'm gonna stay undecided for now, and just wait and see who's right, or if anyone is even right. I have absolutely no motivation to pick one and roll with it. Maybe God will be cool with that. Maybe he won't. Maybe there is no such thing. It's whatever.


LOL! I just had a relaps of my childhood. Though, I grew up Baptist and your parents sound like they where a little more extreme than mine. (We missed church every once in a while and I didn't go to church camp) But, it sounds pretty close. I didn't go as far as stop believing, but something seemed wrong with the teachings. It was like they made God out to be some angry, mean God that was going smite me with something for any wrong move I made. I would leave church with a guilty conscience everytime. It is a wonder why people don't like going to church.lol

I was never big on preachers that screamed and talked with a weird voice. Also, the preachers that begged for money everytime the preached were a turnoff. Then the famous "turn or burn" preachers that I grew up with. In the late 80's early 90's I finally found a minister that changed my life and has the best teaching I have ever heard.

I don't know if you or anyone else are interested in listening to any of his teaching. But, he has all of his teachings on his website for free on MP3. Here is his website and you can click any of the teachings on the left of the screen to listen to. I recommend listening to the True Nature of God or any of the God's kind of Love teachings. http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1002
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post #17 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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For me, the problem isn't belief in God, it's belief in the super-flawed horse hockey that is organized religion. Between the dogma that sounds like a bunch of fantasy BS, and the people that run the show: I'm out. I don't need all that mess to be just fine with God.
I feel the same way. I hate religion. Religion perverts the word of God. I call myself a Christian and go by what the KJV Bible says. I don't think it is important on how you dress, or if a woman has to wear a dress and no make up, etc. You don't have to perform to be in right standing wth God all you have to do is accept him.
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post #18 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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I've already found faith in a another religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

LOL!! All I saw was flying spaghetti monster.
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post #19 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:24 AM
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I've met too many believers who can't properly conjugate a verb in their native language
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post #20 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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I've met too many believers who can't properly conjugate a verb in their native language

LOL!! That is one of the reasons why I am thankful my trust only needs to be in God, and not the followers.
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post #21 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:52 AM
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oh, you were talking about Christians in your first post...

I believe in a creator
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post #22 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 12:31 PM
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i don't know what i believe anymore. i am more undecided than anything. i grew up as a Christian, and now just want to know more. i know i believe there is a creator and i can dig Jesus being his messanger or son or just a way to show people how to act. but i dont believe the bible is completely true.

the bible is confusing and people can read the same passage and get totally different messages.

i like to find out what others believe without sounding like a prick. like believing or not believing makes one smarter.

me and my pops have long ass discussions about religion and we go round and round about it, but i think its healthier to have doubt than have blind faith.

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post #23 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 12:31 PM
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I wouldn't say I don't believe in God, or a divine force, but I don't believe the bible, the koran, or any other mainstream religious text is anything other than an invention of man. I don't believe a god had anything to do with their being written. My reasoning is that, taken literally, they're crap. The bible would appear to mostly be parable, with some general sun worship/zodiac overtones. The koran is just a handbook for political domination through religious persecution, written by a warlord. The vedas? Shit, some of those are over 5,000 years old, and I think something's been lost in all that time, to say the least.

Give me a dollar.
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post #24 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 01:06 PM
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I wouldn't say I don't believe in God, or a divine force, but I don't believe the bible, the koran, or any other mainstream religious text is anything other than an invention of man. I don't believe a god had anything to do with their being written. My reasoning is that, taken literally, they're crap. The bible would appear to mostly be parable, with some general sun worship/zodiac overtones. The koran is just a handbook for political domination through religious persecution, written by a warlord. The vedas? Shit, some of those are over 5,000 years old, and I think something's been lost in all that time, to say the least.
written by man to control men
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post #25 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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i don't know what i believe anymore. i am more undecided than anything. i grew up as a Christian, and now just want to know more. i know i believe there is a creator and i can dig Jesus being his messanger or son or just a way to show people how to act. but i dont believe the bible is completely true.

the bible is confusing and people can read the same passage and get totally different messages.

i like to find out what others believe without sounding like a prick. like believing or not believing makes one smarter.

me and my pops have long ass discussions about religion and we go round and round about it, but i think its healthier to have doubt than have blind faith.
Try the link below. There is tons of free audio teachings. He has a great way of explaining things. It will also help the Bible not seem so confusing. I have listened to his teaching for close to 20 years and it really opened my eyes. As stated before "The True Nature of God" and "Gods Kind of Love..." would be good to start out with.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1002
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post #26 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 04:03 PM
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written by man to control men
Seriously, I can't hate on the Catholic Church. That scheme is genius!

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post #27 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:37 PM
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written by man to control men
Please explain...

Who wrote it if it is to control men?

We would suspect Kings, Princes, People of Power right?

Isn't it funny that common men wrote it, and they often spoke of their failures and shortcomings.

And yet we are to believe that it is to control men, lol.
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post #28 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 11:39 PM
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For the original post, the Bible gives us a hint:

2 Corinthians 4

3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
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post #29 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 01:02 AM
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What bothers me is that people say "how can God let this happen" when a plane crashes but they never give thanks to God when a plane lands safely. Religion is flawed because man has a part in it. To me your relationship with God is different from everyone else. Religion has nothing to do with it. Going to church facilitates an avenue for growth but it is a commitment that you have to grow through your personal reading and studies.

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post #30 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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What bothers me is that people say "how can God let this happen" when a plane crashes but they never give thanks to God when a plane lands safely. Religion is flawed because man has a part in it. To me your relationship with God is different from everyone else. Religion has nothing to do with it. Going to church facilitates an avenue for growth but it is a commitment that you have to grow through your personal reading and studies.

I don't see why people blame God in the first place. God doesn't decide to make a plane crash.lol Blame it on the pilot, mechanical failure or whatever went wrong.
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post #31 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 01:32 AM
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I don't see why people blame God in the first place. God doesn't decide to make a plane crash.lol Blame it on the pilot, mechanical failure or whatever went wrong.
People that don't believe in God will blame him for these things as a defense in their argument. It goes both ways. You can praise him or blame him.

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post #32 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 07:05 AM
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Please explain...

Who wrote it if it is to control men?

We would suspect Kings, Princes, People of Power right?

Isn't it funny that common men wrote it, and they often spoke of their failures and shortcomings.

And yet we are to believe that it is to control men, lol.
ok, used by men to control men
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post #33 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 07:22 AM
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Please explain...

Who wrote it if it is to control men?

We would suspect Kings, Princes, People of Power right?

Isn't it funny that common men wrote it, and they often spoke of their failures and shortcomings.

And yet we are to believe that it is to control men, lol.
Common men didn't write it. Men in power wrote it, going all the way back to Genesis.

Give me a dollar.
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post #34 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 07:35 AM
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Common men didn't write it. Men in power wrote it, going all the way back to Genesis.
are you somehow implying that common men back then weren't well educated and able to read and write? oh wait... nvm
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post #35 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 08:26 AM
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Common men didn't write it. Men in power wrote it, going all the way back to Genesis.
I was primarily concerning the New Testament but...

Moses was born in Egypt, a country that had his people in slavery and oppression. The only way he rose to power was because of God.

Why was Moses not able to go into the promised land? Why would those in power make themselves look bad?

Tell me what percentage of the books in the Bible are to control men...
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post #36 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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Common men didn't write it. Men in power wrote it, going all the way back to Genesis.
Actually, much of the Old Testament was passed down through oral records, meticulous oral records.
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post #37 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
I was primarily concerning the New Testament but...

Moses was born in Egypt, a country that had his people in slavery and oppression. The only way he rose to power was because of God.

Why was Moses not able to go into the promised land? Why would those in power make themselves look bad?

Tell me what percentage of the books in the Bible are to control men...
My opinion is, all of them. They all contain some parable or fable about proper behavior within their applicable societies. The problem is that the cultures that spawned them are gone, so we don't have a frame of reference for the rational behind those stringent rules. You and I aren't struggling to survive in a desert. Moses wasn't able to go into the promised land, because it was occupied by the Canaanites, and he wasn't done conquering them, yet. I don't know what you mean by, "Why would those in power make themselves look bad?" The Hebrew heirarchy wove one hell of a bullshit story to make themselves look good. They ran around, copied everyone elses' respective creation myths, put a Jewish spin on them, and took over Israel. They came out of Egypt, militarily occupied Israel, ran some bull to legitemize their presence (what culture hasn't declared itself the "chosen" people?) got taken over and made a vassal state by Babylon, escaped that, ran some fresh bull having been exposed to Babylonian mythology, and then basically got rolled by every invading army for 2000 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
Actually, much of the Old Testament was passed down through oral records, meticulous oral records.
They've been writing the torah down for a long, long time. It's pretty well established that even though he's credited with writing the first 4 books, Moses most likely did not write them. They've probably been writing down the Torah for 2500+ years. There are a ton of scrolls in trash piles in Egypt.

Give me a dollar.
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post #38 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txstang1 View Post
I competely agree with your first paragraph, you and I had similar upbringings and I pretty much feel the same way

On the second, I think that is an excellent way to look at it, but I am leaning towards not thinking there is a God. I am thinking the more realistic explanation is scientific.
I couldn't have summed it up better than these two posts. I just find it hard to believe that one day there was nothing, then 7 days later there was everything, including fully evolved Humans, not to mention the other millions of species on Earth. But that's an overly simplistic view of what happened, according to the bible.
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post #39 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yale View Post
I don't know what you mean by, "Why would those in power make themselves look bad?"
Why would the authors of the book, whom you assume are seeking to control the masses, write about themselves in a self deprecating manner?
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post #40 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
Why would the authors of the book, whom you assume are seeking to control the masses, write about themselves in a self deprecating manner?
You're saying I'm reading in implied intent to self-depricate? I'm not. I don't think they WANTED to make themselves look bad. I think they WANTED to make themselves look good, and authoritative.

Give me a dollar.
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post #41 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 03:47 PM
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The way I see it is that christianity wasn't the first religion, and it won't be the last...it's just another one. Is it the "right" one? Maybe, maybe not. It's no more right or wrong than the others, or not being religious at all.
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post #42 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post

Tell me what percentage of the books in the Bible are to control men...
Exactly 62%!
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post #43 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 10:24 AM
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NO Proof to any religion. Thats why I won't / don't believe.

Written by man ... edited by man to control man.

Raised as a Christian but realized long ago we've been fooled.

Never really believed but was looking and learning. Any truly sane person would question religion since no proof exists.

Religion is big money business... thats one thing it is...

Last edited by Bullitt3055; 06-08-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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post #44 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 10:30 AM
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Because it's all bullshit.
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post #45 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 10:31 AM
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^^^^^
Wrong........

Inspired by God, revealed to mankind.
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post #46 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
^^^^^
Wrong........

Inspired by God, revealed to mankind.
Inspired by being afraid of the dark, revealed to scam the others.
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post #47 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
^^^^^
Wrong........

Inspired by God, revealed to mankind.
Do you like Joel Osteen?

Give me a dollar.
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post #48 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 04:04 PM
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I don't know anything about Joel Osteen other than he has his own television show.

Based on that lack of knowledge, I can't say that I like or dislike him.
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post #49 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 08:03 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
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Osteen is a heretic.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
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post #50 of 309 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 11:51 PM
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In Christianity, heresy is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church, or, by extension, to that of any church, creed, or religious system, considered as orthodox. By extension, heresy is an opinion or doctrine in philosophy, politics, science, art, etc., at variance with those generally accepted as authoritative.

Whats wrong with being a heretic...???
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