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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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No Good Friday thread?!?!

We are by nature, sinful and unclean. We all fall short of Godís expectations and deserve nothing more than eternal punishment. I know this, God knows this and we all know there is no hope for us to be perfect as He expects. This is one of the reasons Christ came to earth as one of us (mortal). He not only taught us how to live and performed miracles, but He also came to offer Himself as the ultimate sacrifice. With sin, there is always a need for punishment and that punishment is eternal death (life without God). Christ offered His life for us so that we donít have to be punished, rather receive eternal life with Him. Although we should remember this continuously, we use today, Good Friday, to commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus and his death at Golgotha... a turning point and in all our lives that led to our greatest victory (Christ's resurrection).
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 02:51 PM
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Jesus's Obituary

Jesus Christ, 33, of Nazareth, died Friday on Mount Calvary, also known as Golgotha, the place of the skull. Betrayed by the apostle, Judas, Jesus was crucified by the Romans, by order of the Ruler Pontius Pilate.

The causes of death were crucifixion, extreme exhaustion, severe torture and loss of blood.

Jesus Christ, a descendent of Abraham, was a member of the house of David. He was the Son of the late Joseph, a carpenter of Nazareth, and Mary, His devoted Mother. Jesus was born in a stable in the city of Bethlehem, Judea. He is survived by His mother, Mary, His faithful Apostles, numerous disciples and many other followers.

Jesus was self-educated and spent most of his adult life working as a Teacher. Jesus also occasionally worked as a Medical Doctor and it is reported that he healed many patients. Up until the time of His death, Jesus was teaching and sharing the Good News, healing the sick, touching the lonely, feeding the hungry and helping the poor.

Jesus was most noted for telling parables about His Father's Kingdom and performing miracles, such as feeding over 5,000 people with only five loaves of bread and two fish, and healing a man who was born blind. On the day before His death, He held a Last Supper celebrating the Passover Feast, at which He foretold His death.

The body was quickly buried in a stone grave, which was donated by Joseph of Arimathea, a loyal friend of the family. By order of Pontius Pilate, a boulder was rolled in front of the tomb. Roman soldiers were put on guard.

In lieu of flowers, the family has requested that everyone try to live as Jesus did. Donations may be sent to anyone in need.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 02:53 PM
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 02:55 PM
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it's been a dang good friday here.

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SVT Lurch View Post
Jesus Christ, 33, of Nazareth, died Friday on Mount Calvary, also known as Golgotha, the place of the skull. Betrayed by the apostle, Judas, Jesus was crucified by the Romans, by order of the Ruler Pontius Pilate.

The causes of death were crucifixion, extreme exhaustion, severe torture and loss of blood.

Jesus Christ, a descendent of Abraham, was a member of the house of David. He was the Son of the late Joseph, a carpenter of Nazareth, and Mary, His devoted Mother. Jesus was born in a stable in the city of Bethlehem, Judea. He is survived by His mother, Mary, His faithful Apostles, numerous disciples and many other followers.

Jesus was self-educated and spent most of his adult life working as a Teacher. Jesus also occasionally worked as a Medical Doctor and it is reported that he healed many patients. Up until the time of His death, Jesus was teaching and sharing the Good News, healing the sick, touching the lonely, feeding the hungry and helping the poor.

Jesus was most noted for telling parables about His Father's Kingdom and performing miracles, such as feeding over 5,000 people with only five loaves of bread and two fish, and healing a man who was born blind. On the day before His death, He held a Last Supper celebrating the Passover Feast, at which He foretold His death.

The body was quickly buried in a stone grave, which was donated by Joseph of Arimathea, a loyal friend of the family. By order of Pontius Pilate, a boulder was rolled in front of the tomb. Roman soldiers were put on guard.

In lieu of flowers, the family has requested that everyone try to live as Jesus did. Donations may be sent to anyone in need.

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Good post, and thanks for the remembrance...

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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 07:08 PM
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We are by nature, sinful and unclean. We all fall short of Godís expectations and deserve nothing more than eternal punishment. I know this, God knows this and we all know there is no hope for us to be perfect as He expects.




Why would God expect us to be perfect if he already knows we can't be? God needs to get over his inferiority complex; after all: he is god.
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 07:18 PM
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Why would God expect us to be perfect if he already knows we can't be? God needs to get over his inferiority complex; after all: he is god.
Because we could be. Jesus did it as a mortal, we could too.
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 09:21 PM
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Why would God expect us to be perfect if he already knows we can't be? God needs to get over his inferiority complex; after all: he is god.
He doesn't expect us to be perfect. If He did He wouldn't have made a way to get to Heaven without being perfect.

He asks us to strive to love perfectly.

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Why would God expect us to be perfect if he already knows we can't be? God needs to get over his inferiority complex; after all: he is god.
How would that be Him having an inferiority complex? He expects certain things of us and even came to earth in our condition and lived a life just like us to show us it CAN be done. Too bad the greatest person to ever walk the face of this earth had to experience what He did. It was a bad Friday for Him, for sure...




But now it's Sunday!!!
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 11:57 PM
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Why would God expect us to be perfect if he already knows we can't be? God needs to get over his inferiority complex; after all: he is god.
LMFAO, so true.

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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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I'm sorry it bothers you guys. It doesn't have to, though.
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:33 AM
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I've been trying to reconcile the math. If he died on Friday, and resurrected on Sunday, how is that three days later? If he resurrected on the 3rd day following his death on Friday, that would put his resurrection on Monday.

Also, why is this holiday based on moon cycles and jewish mysticism, rather than an actual day? Nobody thought to jot down the actual date of Jesus' death? Seems to be a pretty egregious oversight. They didn't even consider at least assigning an arbitrary and/or pagan date to his death, like they did with his supposed birth on December 25th? It's already celebrated with pagan iconography, might as well have it fall on the spring equinox as well.

Hell, they could have even said "It shall be celebrated on the last Friday of March", if you really must stick to the Friday-Sunday bit, and it would still be close enough to Ostara for the kids to get their egg hunting in.

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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:48 AM
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I've been trying to reconcile the math. If he died on Friday, and resurrected on Sunday, how is that three days later? If he resurrected on the 3rd day following his death on Friday, that would put his resurrection on Monday.

Also, why is this holiday based on moon cycles and jewish mysticism, rather than an actual day? Nobody thought to jot down the actual date of Jesus' death? Seems to be a pretty egregious oversight. They didn't even consider at least assigning an arbitrary and/or pagan date to his death, like they did with his supposed birth on December 25th? It's already celebrated with pagan iconography, might as well have it fall on the spring equinox as well.

Hell, they could have even said "It shall be celebrated on the last Friday of March", if you really must stick to the Friday-Sunday bit, and it would still be close enough to Ostara for the kids to get their egg hunting in.


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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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I've been trying to reconcile the math. If he died on Friday, and resurrected on Sunday, how is that three days later? If he resurrected on the 3rd day following his death on Friday, that would put his resurrection on Monday.

Also, why is this holiday based on moon cycles and jewish mysticism, rather than an actual day? Nobody thought to jot down the actual date of Jesus' death? Seems to be a pretty egregious oversight. They didn't even consider at least assigning an arbitrary and/or pagan date to his death, like they did with his supposed birth on December 25th? It's already celebrated with pagan iconography, might as well have it fall on the spring equinox as well.

Hell, they could have even said "It shall be celebrated on the last Friday of March", if you really must stick to the Friday-Sunday bit, and it would still be close enough to Ostara for the kids to get their egg hunting in.
He will tear down the Temple and rebuild it in three days.
Day one- dies
Day two- had to take a break... dying takes a lot out of you
Day three- proves Dark Wolf wrong

Looks like three days to me.

"On the third day He rose again."
I don't see "Wait until I die and the count three days after that" anywhere in the Bible.

Our celebration of Easter doesn't fall on a certain day to remember the day itself, rather a time set aside to openly commemorate what happened. All we know is that He died on a Friday and He rose on a Sunday morning...

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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 06:22 AM
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There are many who have spent years trying to discredit the bible, both historically and geographically, and have not had a lot of luck. It's funny how folks give credit to Nostradamus, but won't crack open the bible for 10 minutes...

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:05 PM
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Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Micky Mouse and Jesus, it's all the same.

The fact that religous people believe that man will rise from the dead for a "God" there is no proof of for a day of revenge is just down right silly.

You can quote the bible all you like, I can quote a book too, doesn't make it so.

It twas the night before Christmas and all through the house....

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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:54 PM
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Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Micky Mouse and Jesus, it's all the same.

The fact that religous people believe that man will rise from the dead for a "God" there is no proof of for a day of revenge is just down right silly.

You can quote the bible all you like, I can quote a book too, doesn't make it so.

It twas the night before Christmas and all through the house....

Apparently you can't quote very well....there is no "It" in the first line of the poem The Night Before Christmas.
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 04:04 PM
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Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Micky Mouse and Jesus, it's all the same.

The fact that religous people believe that man will rise from the dead for a "God" there is no proof of for a day of revenge is just down right silly.

You can quote the bible all you like, I can quote a book too, doesn't make it so.

It twas the night before Christmas and all through the house....
So why even venture into this forum?

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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 06:40 PM
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Looks like a few posters should remember these two gems from another thread in the Theology Corner, but I know that's probably too much to expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
All atheists have one thing in common, they are all obsessed with religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5point0pony
Do you really think that every believer will just stop believing because your just that good at e-arguing?
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 06:42 PM
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So why even venture into this forum?
Because there is more comedy in this forum then in the Jokes forum.

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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 07:54 PM
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Too bad he didn't die on Friday.



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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Because there is more comedy in this forum then in the Jokes forum.
I do agree with you that there is a lack of comedy in the Jokes Forum (since most of them are just sorry forwarded emails that we've read over and over), but when it comes time to look back on NOW with hindsight, I don't think there will be too much laughter. You've heard the term, "It's never too late." Well, there will be a time when it is.
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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 09:43 AM
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Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Micky Mouse and Jesus, it's all the same.

The fact that religous people believe that man will rise from the dead for a "God" there is no proof of for a day of revenge is just down right silly.

You can quote the bible all you like, I can quote a book too, doesn't make it so.

It twas the night before Christmas and all through the house....
You know what.... If you are wrong and die you go to hell... if i am wrong and die... well then nothing happens.

Which is better?
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 09:45 AM
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Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Micky Mouse and Jesus, it's all the same.

The fact that religous people believe that man will rise from the dead for a "God" there is no proof of for a day of revenge is just down right silly.

You can quote the bible all you like, I can quote a book too, doesn't make it so.

It twas the night before Christmas and all through the house....
You spend more tme arguing trying to prove us wrong... if none of it is true why do you waste your time? Non-religious people spend so much time trying to prove themselves right that they might as well join a religion where atleast you get something for the time you are spending.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 10:09 AM
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You spend more tme arguing trying to prove us wrong... if none of it is true why do you waste your time? Non-religious people spend so much time trying to prove themselves right that they might as well join a religion where atleast you get something for the time you are spending.
People that strive to prove Christianity wrong are more trying to convince themselves on a subconscious level, that is why they strive with such passion.

Humans hate accountability when applying to their own freedom.

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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 10:50 AM
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You know what.... If you are wrong and die you go to hell... if i am wrong and die... well then nothing happens.

Which is better?
No offense but I don't like to hear that used as a reason to believe, because it sounds like simply hedging a bet. It is not altogether true either, from a Biblical perspective, to say that when JKD dies he will go to hell if he is wrong.
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 11:50 AM
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No offense but I don't like to hear that used as a reason to believe, because it sounds like simply hedging a bet. It is not altogether true either, from a Biblical perspective, to say that when JKD dies he will go to hell if he is wrong.


My bible says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ė John 3:16 (KJV)
"

Therefore, he that does not believe will go to hell.
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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My bible says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ė John 3:16 (KJV)
"

Therefore, he that does not believe will go to hell.
What does perish mean?
Is Perish a good translation from the original text and intent?
Did the King James translators know the original intent or were they working under the hundreds of years of influence of the Catholic Church?
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 12:41 PM
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You know what.... If you are wrong and die you go to hell... if i am wrong and die... well then nothing happens.

Which is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
You spend more tme arguing trying to prove us wrong... if none of it is true why do you waste your time? Non-religious people spend so much time trying to prove themselves right that they might as well join a religion where atleast you get something for the time you are spending.
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People that strive to prove Christianity wrong are more trying to convince themselves on a subconscious level, that is why they strive with such passion.

Humans hate accountability when applying to their own freedom.
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My bible says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ė John 3:16 (KJV)
"

Therefore, he that does not believe will go to hell.

LOL, see, good comedy. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just funny to me how brainwashed you people are. Those of you standing in here with the book in your hand, placing judgement, but then, I could do a simple search of your posts in other forums to see your unchrisitian like behavior. You guys can't even leave your keyboard without being hypocrites, let alone leaving the house. Who could possibly take the word of someone like that? Mr Majestic is right, it's simple hedging your bets and placing yourself above others.

The simple fact remains, you guys have NO proof of heaven nor hell, other then a book. Meinkamph was a book too, was that right in it's ways of thought?

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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 12:49 PM
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LOL, see, good comedy. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just funny to me how brainwashed you people are. Those of you standing in here with the book in your hand, placing judgement, but then, I could do a simple search of your posts in other forums to see your unchrisitian like behavior. You guys can't even leave your keyboard without being hypocrites, let alone leaving the house. Who could possibly take the word of someone like that? Mr Majestic is right, it's simple hedging your bets and placing yourself above others.

The simple fact remains, you guys have NO proof of heaven nor hell, other then a book. Meinkamph was a book too, was that right in it's ways of thought?
I have all the proof I need everyday in the things that happen in my life. I am reminded of how good God has been to me. I also repent for my sins daily. We are not perfect.
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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 12:53 PM
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I have all the proof I need everyday in the things that happen in my life. I am reminded of how good God has been to me. I also repent for my sins daily. We are not perfect.
Ah..the old ace up the sleeve trick! Party on Saturday, ask for forgiveness on Sunday. Typical religious hypocrisy. If you were truly what you say, every waking moment would be lived to those "beliefs and morals" but the fact is won't, because you have your out card you can do as you wish as long as you ask for forgiveness. That's not faith, that's simply playing both sides.

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 12:59 PM
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My bible says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ė John 3:16 (KJV)
"

Therefore, he that does not believe will go to hell.
OK, your Bible quote says perish, it does not say go to hell as you assumed above by stating "...he that does not believe will go to hell." Perish does not necessarily mean the traditional view of hell as a place of eternal torment and anguish, rather it means cease to exist (my interpretation).

Remember all those who have yet to hear the Good News? They, along with those who decided to reject Christ in this life will have another, final chance to accept Him at the Second Coming. If one rejects Him then, he will utterly perish, as in cease to exist.
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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 01:05 PM
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LOL, see, good comedy. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just funny to me how brainwashed you people are. Those of you standing in here with the book in your hand, placing judgement, but then, I could do a simple search of your posts in other forums to see your unchrisitian like behavior. You guys can't even leave your keyboard without being hypocrites, let alone leaving the house. Who could possibly take the word of someone like that? Mr Majestic is right, it's simple hedging your bets and placing yourself above others.

The simple fact remains, you guys have NO proof of heaven nor hell, other then a book. Meinkamph was a book too, was that right in it's ways of thought?
Define "unchristian like behavior". How could you possibly know what that is unless you are a Christian? You would obviously have to rely on your own opinion or what you've "heard", i.e. assumptions with NO proof your definition would even be remotely correct.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 01:12 PM
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Ah..the old ace up the sleeve trick! Party on Saturday, ask for forgiveness on Sunday. Typical religious hypocrisy. If you were truly what you say, every waking moment would be lived to those "beliefs and morals" but the fact is won't, because you have your out card you can do as you wish as long as you ask for forgiveness. That's not faith, that's simply playing both sides.
Actually, you don't do as you wish because you have your out card. Everyone has been given salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and those who have accepted it also gladly accept a higher standard of conduct for themselves.
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 01:31 PM
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Define "unchristian like behavior". How could you possibly know what that is unless you are a Christian? You would obviously have to rely on your own opinion or what you've "heard", i.e. assumptions with NO proof your definition would even be remotely correct.
You relying on your own opinion about the existance of God, heaven and hell. I don't see the difference. You're also assuming alot about me without knowing the facts. I was born and raised in a religous family, was given a religious education as well. But I have my own mind and through my own experiences come to my own conclusions. They differ from yours.

This board is FULL of Sunday Christians and just use their out card.

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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 02:00 PM
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Meinkamph was a book too, was that right in it's ways of thought?
RIGHT in what respect: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Daoist, Hindi...?
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 02:35 PM
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You relying on your own opinion about the existance of God, heaven and hell. I don't see the difference. You're also assuming alot about me without knowing the facts. I was born and raised in a religous family, was given a religious education as well. But I have my own mind and through my own experiences come to my own conclusions. They differ from yours.

This board is FULL of Sunday Christians and just use their out card.
They are still only conclusions on your part, which are not proof.
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 02:55 PM
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They are still only conclusions on your part, which are not proof.
Same goes for your part, you have no proof of heaven, hell, God or Satan.

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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:04 PM
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If you had proof would you follow?

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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:06 PM
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If you had proof would you follow?
As an atheist, if I had proof of God, I would follow. Would you not believe in God if there was proof that he did not exist? If not, what would it take to make you stop believing?
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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:10 PM
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As an atheist, if I had proof of God, I would follow. Would you not believe in God if there was proof that he did not exist? If not, what would it take to make you stop believing?
Well, I understand your question, but for a believer that is just not possible. If you have read any of my personal posts over the years, you have seen I found proof of life beyond what we see and hear long before I was ever a Christian. Eventually I had to pick a side.

In short...even if they found a body in a tomb labeled Jesus of Nazereth, son of Mary, I would still believe, knowing it to be a hoax.

A real believer has a change inside that is very obvious....like a baby discovering it's own hand. It is that obvious. The other Christians here would most likely have their own stories of what has changed for them.

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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:38 PM
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Same goes for your part, you have no proof of heaven, hell, God or Satan.
I have my faith, which is far superior to proofs devised by man. Since you have broached the subject however, you have no proof refuting the existence of heaven, hell, God, or Satan. Remember that you came to us in this thread, we did not come to you. Thus, the burden is on you to prove anybody wrong in this thread if you choose to try, and to quote the oft-used phrase, it ain't a-gonna happen.
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 03:47 PM
JKD
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If you had proof would you follow?
Sure. I'm logical enough to beleive proof when provided.

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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr View Post
As an atheist, if I had proof of God, I would follow. Would you not believe in God if there was proof that he did not exist? If not, what would it take to make you stop believing?
Doubtful. The brainwashing in religion is unbelievably powerful. If I were tell people I saw some guy walking on water today, they would think I was nuts or I saw Criss Angel. Put the name "Jesus" in there and suddenly it strikes fear into them. It's strange what a label can do.

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I have my faith, which is far superior to proofs devised by man. Since you have broached the subject however, you have no proof refuting the existence of heaven, hell, God, or Satan. Remember that you came to us in this thread, we did not come to you. Thus, the burden is on you to prove anybody wrong in this thread if you choose to try, and to quote the oft-used phrase, it ain't a-gonna happen.
Nice play. A statement to where you don't put yourself in the position of having to do anything other then stand there with your storybook in your hand.

How does one go about proving something doesnt exist? lol, that makes no sense. There is no proof to counter the idea that it doesn't. What a crack up.

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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 04:05 PM
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Nice play. A statement to where you don't put yourself in the position of having to do anything other then stand there with your storybook in your hand.

How does one go about proving something doesnt exist? lol, that makes no sense. There is no proof to counter the idea that it doesn't. What a crack up.
Do mean the manner in which you are doing nothing but posting empty arguments, much less proving anything? As of yet, you have still failed to even define the "unchristian" behavior you say you can prove by searching the posts of mustangguy289 and flashstang04. Do you really think you're saying anything that hasn't been said by non-believers in here before, or that you are somehow saying it better? You're not.
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 05:19 PM
You lookin' at mah EYE?!
 
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There are many who have spent years trying to discredit the bible, both historically and geographically, and have not had a lot of luck. It's funny how folks give credit to Nostradamus, but won't crack open the bible for 10 minutes...
Nostradamus was a nutcase.

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Day one- dies
Day two- had to take a break... dying takes a lot out of you
Day three- proves Dark Wolf wrong
It's a stretch, but I'll give you that. Some people even now count the day they're on as day 1. Which is wrong, obviously, but if 2000+ years later people still can't count right, maybe it's not so unthinkable they couldn't back then either.

Quote:
Our celebration of Easter doesn't fall on a certain day to remember the day itself,
I get what it's supposed to mean for christians, however that fails to account for the christian practice of celebrating the death of someone as sacred/revered. It wasn't until the 4th century that it was acceptable to celebrate someone's birth (it was a pagan practice until then, and considered heretical), but death was the big hoorah.

Yet no one recorded the date. And there ares still conflicts regarding what year exactly he died. 33AD is the generally accepted year, but there are scholarly estimates as early as 5BC.

Quote:
You know what.... If you are wrong and die you go to hell... if i am wrong and die... well then nothing happens.

Which is better?
I don't know... maybe believing because you feel it in your heart to be true, and not because you're scared of what might happen if you don't?

Seems to me God would punish those that hedged their bets because there was no downside, the same as he'd punish those who did not believe at all.

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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 05:44 PM
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Ah..the old ace up the sleeve trick! Party on Saturday, ask for forgiveness on Sunday. Typical religious hypocrisy. If you were truly what you say, every waking moment would be lived to those "beliefs and morals" but the fact is won't, because you have your out card you can do as you wish as long as you ask for forgiveness. That's not faith, that's simply playing both sides.
I don't think you know me too well and are making major assumptions about my life. I am not perfect but I try to do what is pleasing to my Lord and Savior.

I am sorry for your view on religion. I regret that Christians have not portrayed themselves as we should for you. If we did you would probably find something wrong about that also. You mentioned earlier that Christians look down on non believers, well for some that might be true, but in your words... are you not looking down on Christians? I do not look down upon you and I will pray for you.
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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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I get what it's supposed to mean for christians, however that fails to account for the christian practice of celebrating the death of someone as sacred/revered. It wasn't until the 4th century that it was acceptable to celebrate someone's birth (it was a pagan practice until then, and considered heretical), but death was the big hoorah.

Yet no one recorded the date. And there ares still conflicts regarding what year exactly he died. 33AD is the generally accepted year, but there are scholarly estimates as early as 5BC.
Actually, if you re well-versed in Jewish tradition AND read the story, according to the Gospels, you can get a better idea as to why He was crucified when He was.

Start with Passover. This began as a command from God to His people when they were enslaved by the Egyptians. Moses told them to take their most perfect lamb and slaughter it for the meal that day, also putting its blood above the doorway because that night, the Angel of Death was going to pass over the city and anyone who did not have the lamb's blood above their door would lose their first born male. (Exodus 12:1-14) Hmmm... sounds like another story

Anyway, let's look at how the Jews practiced the Passover Festival and compare it to Jesus' death. Now I will just put up the Bible verses because I want anyone who reads this to know I'm not just throwing words out there. I want you to see what was written in the time of Moses and what occurred a couple thousand years AFTER that.

Start
First, you have to have a perfect lamb... (John 1:29)(Matthew 21:1-11)(Hebrews 10:1-18)

Next, the lamb was to be displayed at the alter at 9:00am, or the third hour in Jewish culture... (Mark 15:25)

The lamb was sacrificed at 3:00pm, or the ninth hour in Jewish culture... (Matthew 27:45-50)

Lastly, the priest shouts his exclamation... (John 19:30)

Jesus' death... OUR Passover Lamb's death occurred down to the exact hour. We also know it was the day before the Festival of Unleavened Bread (which doesn't fall on a day, rather a time of season as well) this is why they were so quick to get the body down and put it in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb... (John 19:40-42) Because they needed the area to be "clean" before the Festival. Jewish people were so adamant about not having any leaven in their kitchen when preparing this bread, they swept out their whole house before making the dough. The term "unleavened" bread reffers to sinless and clean. Speaking of which, let's look at Jesus' death compared to the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

The bread could not have leaven (Exodus 12:15)... Look how it's broken down here (1 Corinthians 5:6-8 and 1 Corinthians 11:23-24) Jesus, being sinless, contained no leaven.

The bread is broken into three pieces, the second piece is wrapped and hidden away... go back to (John 19 40:42). Actually, it's like an Easter egg hunt because the kids look for the hidden piece of bread.

What about the Festival of First Fruits? This is what Jews celebrate, remembering coming through the Red Sea safely, leaving Pharoh's mighty army drowning. (Exodus 14).

When does this occur? (Leviticus 23:11) now look at (Matthew 28:1)

Jesus's own words, notice who he cites... (Acts 26:22-23)

Lastly, (1 Corinthians 15:20-23)

OK, let's get into the Festival of Weeks (or Pentecost). This is the giving of the Law. It can be compared like this:

Giving of the Law (19:16-19) compares to the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts capters 1 and 2)

3000 died (Exodus 32:28)... 3000 saved (Acts 2:41)









Bro... I can go on all day like this. My point is that Jesus died when He was supposed to, where He was supposed to and for the reason He was supposed to. Contrary to what many people think, He did not come to replace the Law, to cancel out the Law or anything like that. He came to fullfill the Law and all the prophcies. He nailed it! (no pun intended)

I know that you and many are unbelievers, but how can you deny THAT?!?! Jesus didn't tell the Romans what and when to do anything.
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 12:07 AM
JKD
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I don't think you know me too well and are making major assumptions about my life. I am not perfect but I try to do what is pleasing to my Lord and Savior.

I am sorry for your view on religion. I regret that Christians have not portrayed themselves as we should for you. If we did you would probably find something wrong about that also. You mentioned earlier that Christians look down on non believers, well for some that might be true, but in your words... are you not looking down on Christians? I do not look down upon you and I will pray for you.
Honestly, I'm all for whatever makes people feel better and be better people, if that's worshipping "God" or the "easter bunny" that's all fine and well. My issue has always been more with the Church and the people of the Church. It's a turn off to see people preach "the word" condeming people because they don't believe as they do, or because this did this or that, but turn around and do the very same things themselves. The Church pushes people for cash, even those whom don't have it to give a percentage. Elderly people passing up paying for medications they need and rather giving it to the Church, for preachers and pastors to be driving fancy cars and building monuments of Churchs for bigger congregations to pull in even more money.

Do I believe in God? I honestly don't know. I've been in conflict with it all my life. The logical part of my mind tells me it's silly to put so much faith in something I can't see or feel or prove for that matter. How does one get "faith" without proof? Do I just make my mind to believe one day and go from there? Doesn't seem logical to me. I was born and raised in a strict Roman Catholic, all Navy family. I went to Catholic school, I've been through it all, the Church ruined it for me personally.

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 06:24 AM
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It is unfortunate that your experience with church turned you off to the reason for going in the first place. Like you, I have no fondness for hypocrisy. Bear in mind that not all churches are like the one(s) you experienced. My membership in the two churches that I have primarily attended during my life, and (very important) independently studying the Bible, has brought me to point where I have unquestioning faith in God.

Regarding the cash issue, one need not contribute cash solely to the church. Worthwhile charities are often better organizations to donate to, and a donation of one's time is just as valuable as cash.. The point is to give back to God some of that which He has equipped us with to benefit others as a show of faith, and by so doing He will return blessings many times over.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 04-14-2009 at 07:29 AM.
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 06:24 AM
Lifer
 
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Honestly, I'm all for whatever makes people feel better and be better people, if that's worshipping "God" or the "easter bunny" that's all fine and well. My issue has always been more with the Church and the people of the Church. It's a turn off to see people preach "the word" condeming people because they don't believe as they do, or because this did this or that, but turn around and do the very same things themselves. The Church pushes people for cash, even those whom don't have it to give a percentage. Elderly people passing up paying for medications they need and rather giving it to the Church, for preachers and pastors to be driving fancy cars and building monuments of Churchs for bigger congregations to pull in even more money.

Do I believe in God? I honestly don't know. I've been in conflict with it all my life. The logical part of my mind tells me it's silly to put so much faith in something I can't see or feel or prove for that matter. How does one get "faith" without proof? Do I just make my mind to believe one day and go from there? Doesn't seem logical to me. I was born and raised in a strict Roman Catholic, all Navy family. I went to Catholic school, I've been through it all, the Church ruined it for me personally.

There's a ton of folks in your situation (including me)...grew up with church shoved down their throats. I don't think God is about church as much as it is about fellowship. You don't need church to find God. Recently, there's been a large group of atheists' that are meeting regularly for "fellowship", too. I do give some to our small church (150 members), but never feel pressured to do so. Like any small business, they need funds just to keep the doors open. The books are always open to any member at any time. I have no desire to belong to a "mega-church" for several reasons, finances being one of them. I do tons of volunteer work for the church (we remodeled a restaurant to make our "church"). My church is small enough that I know my pastor on a first-name basis, along with his family. I hope you give it another shot sometime...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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