Christian-Jews - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Christian-Jews

How does this work. I am not talking about the descendants of Jerusalem... I am talking about Massianic(sp) jews.

Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah and Christians do. How can you be both?
mustangguy289 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:13 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
They're Jewish by heritage/race and Christian by faith.

Slowhand is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhand View Post
They're Jewish by heritage/race and Christian by faith.
What about a person who does not have any of that heritage but practices this? Also they say there is a difference between Massianic jew and a believer. They also have their son telling his grandfather he is not following God's word because he eats pork, shrimp, etc.

They keep labeling everything we do as antisemitic. I do not hate jews... my bible just tells everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as their saver is going to hell.
mustangguy289 is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:35 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
What about a person who does not have any of that heritage but practices this? Also they say there is a difference between Massianic jew and a believer. They also have their son telling his grandfather he is not following God's word because he eats pork, shrimp, etc.

They keep labeling everything we do as antisemitic. I do not hate jews... my bible just tells everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as their saver is going to hell.
In that case, they're someone who is a Christian that follows Jewish Law. Christians today tend to ignore the Jewish Law stated in the Old Testament; a Messianic Jew is a Christian that would say that other Christians are not correctly practicing their faith because they're ignoring something they proclaim to believe.

Slowhand is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhand View Post
In that case, they're someone who is a Christian that follows Jewish Law. Christians today tend to ignore the Jewish Law stated in the Old Testament; a Messianic Jew is a Christian that would say that other Christians are not correctly practicing their faith because they're ignoring something they proclaim to believe.
The Messianic Jew is ignoring the new testament when some of those old testament laws were over written. We had a pastor show us a verse that in the new testament that was Jesus talking it pretty much did away with the kosher food laws. If I can remember the verse or get a hold of him I will post it.

Next time i see my brother and sister in law I am gonna ask them what they meant when they said there is a difference between a believer and a Messianic jew. By your definition and wikipedias def. a Messianic Jew is a believer with different customs pretty much.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:44 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
The Messianic Jew is ignoring the new testament when some of those old testament laws were over written. We had a pastor show us a verse that in the new testament that was Jesus talking it pretty much did away with the kosher food laws. If I can remember the verse or get a hold of him I will post it.

Next time i see my brother and sister in law I am gonna ask them what they meant when they said there is a difference between a believer and a Messianic jew. By your definition and wikipedias def. a Messianic Jew is a believer with different customs pretty much.
That's what I've always heard. Never really concerned myself with it.

Slowhand is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:47 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
The Messianic Jew is ignoring the new testament when some of those old testament laws were over written. We had a pastor show us a verse that in the new testament that was Jesus talking it pretty much did away with the kosher food laws. If I can remember the verse or get a hold of him I will post it.

Next time i see my brother and sister in law I am gonna ask them what they meant when they said there is a difference between a believer and a Messianic jew. By your definition and wikipedias def. a Messianic Jew is a believer with different customs pretty much.
Acts 11:

4 Then Peter began to explain to them point by point what had happened. He said,
5 “I was in the town of Joppa praying when in a trance I saw a vision: Something like a large linen sheet descended down from heaven, lowered by its four corners, and it came right down to me.
6 When I examined it closely, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild animals, reptiles, and birds of the air.
7 I also heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter! Kill something and eat it.’
8 But I replied, ‘Absolutely not, Lord, for nothing common or unclean has ever entered my mouth!’
9 Then the voice from heaven answered a second time, ‘You must stop calling common what God has made clean!’
10 This happened three times. Then everything was pulled back up to heaven.


Messianic Jews are subject to different beliefs just as different denominations... if people would stop squabbling over.... rapture placement, 'to dunk or sprinkle. to use music or not, don't eat this don't eat that.....and focus on Christ, the world would be a much better place.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhand View Post
That's what I've always heard. Never really concerned myself with it.
Neither did I before. But it is really kind of seperating my wife's side of the family. My wife's father has some Jewish blood in his family tree. The entire family was Christian long before my wife and her brother were born. Her brother's wife has absolutely no jew in here and she is the main pusher for all of this. They had a jewish wedding before they were even members of a synagogue lol.

My sister in law uses the reason of " He looks like a jew " as one of the reasons they decided to do this.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post


Messianic Jews are subject to different beliefs just as different denominations... if people would stop squabbling over.... rapture placement, 'to dunk or sprinkle. to use music or not, don't eat this don't eat that.....and focus on Christ, the world would be a much better place.
Very good point. I have never argued with them or even discussed it with them. I merely want to know. They get very defensive anytime anyone asks them anything about it so I have just steered clear of it.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 01:54 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
Very good point. I have never argued with them or even discussed it with them. I merely want to know. They get very defensive anytime anyone asks them anything about it so I have just steered clear of it.

Realize that most of the time people get insulting, or defensive, especially non believers (see atheist vs. Christian thread) it is because they are backed into a corner and have no idea what they are talking about so they can't really give you an answer, so they get huffy....

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 07:40 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
The Messianic Jew is ignoring the new testament when some of those old testament laws were over written. We had a pastor show us a verse that in the new testament that was Jesus talking it pretty much did away with the kosher food laws. If I can remember the verse or get a hold of him I will post it.

Next time i see my brother and sister in law I am gonna ask them what they meant when they said there is a difference between a believer and a Messianic jew. By your definition and wikipedias def. a Messianic Jew is a believer with different customs pretty much.
I don't believe Jesus did away with any of the First Covenant Laws, rather He fulfilled them on our behalf.

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 09:59 PM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
I don't believe Jesus did away with any of the First Covenant Laws, rather He fulfilled them on our behalf.

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
That's EXACTLY what it means! The Laws that God put in place were never over-ridden or expired. Jesus' sacrifice just made it possible for us to receive Salvation. The Laws still need to be followed. I'm just waiting for the Temple to return (or at least an attempt to rebuild it). Just like the tithing thread a while back... It was Law then, it is Law (to me) now.
Denny is offline  
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-17-2009, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
That's EXACTLY what it means! The Laws that God put in place were never over-ridden or expired. Jesus' sacrifice just made it possible for us to receive Salvation. The Laws still need to be followed. I'm just waiting for the Temple to return (or at least an attempt to rebuild it). Just like the tithing thread a while back... It was Law then, it is Law (to me) now.
So do you only eat kosher food... do you consider it a sin to eat non kosher food?
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-18-2009, 10:21 PM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
So do you only eat kosher food... do you consider it a sin to eat non kosher food?
I can't... not in the environment I'm living in. I eat whatever is offered to me. Actually, in today's society, eating a traditional diet is something you'd have to go out of your way to make it truly Kashrut. I'm not even talking about Bishul Yisroel, Cholov Yisroel or Mevushal.

I would say about 10% of "Traditional American Jews" keep kosher, just from what I see.
Denny is offline  
post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 05:41 AM
Canada is welcome here.
 
justinsn95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ft worth
Posts: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
Messianic Jews are subject to different beliefs just as different denominations... if people would stop squabbling over.... rapture placement, 'to dunk or sprinkle. to use music or not, don't eat this don't eat that.....and focus on Christ, the world would be a much better place.
Agreed, to many stupid people concerned with stupid crap that doesn't even matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
Very good point. I have never argued with them or even discussed it with them. I merely want to know. They get very defensive anytime anyone asks them anything about it so I have just steered clear of it.
I would just consider them to be blithering idiots, and go ahead and do what you are doing and avoid the whole thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
justinsn95 is offline  
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95 View Post



I would just consider them to be blithering idiots, and go ahead and do what you are doing and avoid the whole thing.
But that would be the same thing that all non-christians hate christians for. To think anyone else is stupid and I am right. I mean I know my faith is right but I will not put someone else down for believing something a bit different than me. There is also nothing wrong from hearting out other people and opening your mind to that knowledge whether it be wrong or right.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
That's EXACTLY what it means! The Laws that God put in place were never over-ridden or expired. Jesus' sacrifice just made it possible for us to receive Salvation. The Laws still need to be followed. I'm just waiting for the Temple to return (or at least an attempt to rebuild it). Just like the tithing thread a while back... It was Law then, it is Law (to me) now.
Are you serious Denny, do you ever wear mixed fabrics? That was part of God's law to Israel.

"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together. " (Deut 22:11)
Phillystang is offline  
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
Are you serious Denny, do you ever wear mixed fabrics? That was part of God's law to Israel.

"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together. " (Deut 22:11)
Tell me where He said, "OK, since Jesus died and rose again, all that BS I said in past... just forget about it." All or nothing, right? So do we just forget the Ten Commandments while we're at it?
Denny is offline  
post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Tell me where He said, "OK, since Jesus died and rose again, all that BS I said in past... just forget about it." All or nothing, right? So do we just forget the Ten Commandments while we're at it?
Ok maybe I mis said what I meant. I was only referring to the food laws not the ten commandments.

You did not answer my question on if you only eat kosher food.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
Ok maybe I mis said what I meant. I was only referring to the food laws not the ten commandments.

You did not answer my question on if you only eat kosher food.


The two can't be separated actually.....

Either you do it all, or you don't..

Anything in between is just preference, and not law.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 02:09 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Tell me where He said, "OK, since Jesus died and rose again, all that BS I said in past... just forget about it." All or nothing, right? So do we just forget the Ten Commandments while we're at it?
Ok, by your standards of all or nothing, do you wear mixed fabrics?

Please take the time to read Galatians 5
Phillystang is offline  
post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
BANNED
 
mustangguy289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
The two can't be separated actually.....

Either you do it all, or you don't..

Anything in between is just preference, and not law.
Show me which commandment talks about kosher food or the two different material clothing.
mustangguy289 is offline  
post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289 View Post
Show me which commandment talks about kosher food or the two different material clothing.
"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together. " (Deut 22:11)

for dietary laws, see Leviticus ch 11
Phillystang is offline  
post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangguy289
Show me which commandment talks about kosher food or the two different material clothing.
Deuteronomy 14:3-21 (KJV)

Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing.

These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.

Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:

And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.

Of all clean birds ye shall eat.

But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
And every raven after his kind,
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.

But of all clean fowls ye may eat.



And, as Phillystang referenced:

Deuteronomy 22:11 (KJV)

Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 06:18 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Tell me where He said, "OK, since Jesus died and rose again, all that BS I said in past... just forget about it." All or nothing, right? So do we just forget the Ten Commandments while we're at it?
Also read Acts chapter 10 in the vision that God shows to Peter.
Phillystang is offline  
post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 09:56 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
flashstang04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang View Post
Also read Acts chapter 10 in the vision that God shows to Peter.
Acts 11

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
flashstang04 is offline  
post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 01:00 AM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
The two can't be separated actually.....

Either you do it all, or you don't..

Anything in between is just preference, and not law.
See, this is what I'm talking about. How can there be seperation of the Law. It's all "The Law," not laws.

I've read Acts 10 and Galatiians 5. Peter's vision in Acts 10 is showing him that he and the Gentiles are now on equal ground in the Lord's eyes. Galatians 5 has one really interesting verse that you guys need to chew on for a second...

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

The term "circumcision" relates to those who follow the Law, as opposed to "uncircumcision," meaning believers who don't recognize the Law. If my Salvation depended on me abiding by the Law, I wouldn't have a chance (like everyone else). My recognition of the Law demonstrates my respect for His commands and obedience. My Faith demonstrates my love for Him. It also shows my recognition and thankfulness of His sacrifice for me. THAT is what determines my Salvation.

I'm really not trying to argue anything here, just trying to show you all my personal relationship with Him. I can even follow the Law 100% for one day, but as long as I make a concious effort when I can, it's all I can do for His expectations. I believe we need to do what we can to abide by ALL of His commands, but we are not held accountable for not getting 100%, thanks to the sacrifice that Jesus made for all of us.
Denny is offline  
post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Pilgrim
 
Phillystang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
See, this is what I'm talking about. How can there be seperation of the Law. It's all "The Law," not laws.

I've read Acts 10 and Galatiians 5. Peter's vision in Acts 10 is showing him that he and the Gentiles are now on equal ground in the Lord's eyes. Galatians 5 has one really interesting verse that you guys need to chew on for a second...

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

The term "circumcision" relates to those who follow the Law, as opposed to "uncircumcision," meaning believers who don't recognize the Law. If my Salvation depended on me abiding by the Law, I wouldn't have a chance (like everyone else). My recognition of the Law demonstrates my respect for His commands and obedience. My Faith demonstrates my love for Him. It also shows my recognition and thankfulness of His sacrifice for me. THAT is what determines my Salvation.

I'm really not trying to argue anything here, just trying to show you all my personal relationship with Him. I can even follow the Law 100% for one day, but as long as I make a concious effort when I can, it's all I can do for His expectations. I believe we need to do what we can to abide by ALL of His commands, but we are not held accountable for not getting 100%, thanks to the sacrifice that Jesus made for all of us.
The point is that God gave certain laws to Israel that were never given to Gentiles. The Apostle Paul never placed the burden of Israel's laws on gentile converts. Galatians is about Paul condemning those that are seeking to be justified by keeping the law.
Phillystang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome