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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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U.S. is founded on christian beliefs

What do people mean when they say that this country was founded on Christian beliefs? Or that this is a Christian nation?

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 11:26 AM
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What do people mean when they say that this country was founded on Christian beliefs? Or that this is a Christian nation?
A nation of religious freedom; that's it.

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites." - Jefferson

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 12:38 PM
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A nation of religious freedom; that's it.

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites." - Jefferson
I think that is the original intention but many people misinterpret it

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 06:10 PM
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The foundation kind of looks Freemasonarianistic.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:04 PM
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This sounds like a man of Faith...

And have we forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. - Ben Franklin

The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations. - George Washington

And this sounds like a religious freedom...

If ever there was a body of men who merited damnation on earth and in Hell, it is this society of Loyola’s (Jesuits). Nevertheless, we are compelled by our system of religious toleration to offer them an asylum. - John Adams


Some Founding Fathers were religious, some were not.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:45 PM
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What do people mean when they say that this country was founded on Christian beliefs? Or that this is a Christian nation?
lol, ever read the declaration of independence, or the constitution?
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:29 AM
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lol, ever read the declaration of independence, or the constitution?
The Declaration of Independance has the words

"that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,"

but the Constitution does not mention any type of God, Creator, etc.

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:44 AM
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Regardless of what belief system it was founded on, it has evolved into what it is today. A country where I, a non believer, can sit and have heated debates with some of my closest friends and after we are done, go have a beer and still be good friends, not trying to kill one another.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:55 AM
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If ever there was a body of men who merited damnation on earth and in Hell, it is this society of Loyola’s (Jesuits). - John Adams

I can not find how he made the determination of merit.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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lol, ever read the declaration of independence, or the constitution?


i have looked them over. i googled God and the constutution and found out that God is not mentioned in the constitution except when one guy signed his name as in the name of our lord.

is he mentioned in the decleration of independence or are you going to make me google that as well.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:38 AM
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i have looked them over. i googled God and the constutution and found out that God is not mentioned in the constitution except when one guy signed his name as in the name of our lord.

is he mentioned in the decleration of independence or are you going to make me google that as well.

No, I wouldn't want you to have to work your precious little hands for it.

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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No, I wouldn't want you to have to work your precious little hands for it.

http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com...f+independence
thank you.

ok, i looked it over and i didn't see Christianity mentioned.

there were a few references to a God and to a Creator.

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:08 AM
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thank you.

ok, i looked it over and i didn't see Christianity mentioned.

there were a few references to a God and to a Creator.

Let me do everything for you then.

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"The Declaration contains five references to God - God as supreme Lawmaker, God as Creator of all men, God as the Source of all rights, God as the world's supreme Judge, and God as our Protector on whom we can rely. "
US currency displays "In God We Trust." as well.

What do they mean this was founded on Christian beliefs? Of all 13 colonies landing on the shores, all of them were Christian religious based sects.

What do they mean this is a Christian Nation? at last census 82% of people in the united states are Christian.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, now you're just retarded or being a smartass. Let me do everything for you then.


whoa, easy there. i am not trying to be a smartass. I am genuinely curious about this. I was saying that I saw references to God but not to Christianity.

The original topic was Why do people say that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

I was asking originally because I found out that the Constitution doesn't mention God or Christianity.

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:13 AM
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whoa, easy there. i am not trying to be a smartass. I am genuinely curious about this. I was saying that I saw references to God but not to Christianity.

The original topic was Why do people say that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

I was asking originally because I found out that the Constitution doesn't mention God or Christianity.
see edit.^^^ That is why people say that.

Christianity and the US constitution:

http://www.rbvincent.com/usconstitution.htm

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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:31 AM
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"A government of the people, by the people, and for the people."

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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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yeah I understand that the majority of Americans are Christians.

wasn't the In God We Trust added to our currency in the 50's to remind us of the evils of communism. Or am i mixing up the Under God in the pledge and the In God We Trust.



the declaration of independence was basically like our letter to the king to fuck off right?

and then the constitution was the rules to our new nation.

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:34 AM
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yeah I understand that the majority of Americans are Christians.

wasn't the In God We Trust added to our currency in the 50's to remind us of the evils of communism. Or am i mixing up the Under God in the pledge and the In God We Trust.



the declaration of independence was basically like our letter to the king to fuck off right?

and then the constitution was the rules to our new nation.
If you understand the overwhelming majority of this country is christian, and you accept that the original colonies were all christian sects, then you already have your answer to why the US is a Christian nation.
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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If you understand the overwhelming majority of this country is christian, and you accept that the original colonies were all christian sects, then you already have your answer to why the US is a Christian nation.


but i wouldn't say the majority being Christian would make it a Christian nation.

I would say we are a free nation, and the majority are Christians.

to me it seemed like the founders tried very hard to keep religious beliefs out of the laws they originally created.

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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:49 AM
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but i wouldn't say the majority being Christian would make it a Christian nation.

I would say we are a free nation, and the majority are Christians.

to me it seemed like the founders tried very hard to keep religious beliefs out of the laws they originally created.
Yes they were, that was the purpose for the constitution and foundation for this nation, the reason for the christian separatists coming to America in the first place was for prosecution and discrimination by religion. What makes it a christian nation is the majority of christians, it's a generalizing term.
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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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cool, i wasn't trying to change anyone's mind about it.

i was just wondering why people say it is.

thanks,

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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 11:18 AM
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Yes they were, that was the purpose for the constitution and foundation for this nation, the reason for the christian separatists coming to America in the first place was for prosecution and discrimination by religion. What makes it a christian nation is the majority of christians, it's a generalizing term.
I agree with you in general, but taxation without representation was the main reason. They were getting tired of being hit in the wallet with no way to change it.

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:53 PM
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lol, ever read the declaration of independence, or the constitution?
Does is actually say "christian" though in either of those? I know it uses the term "God," but that term was around long before christianity came to light.
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:57 PM
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Yes they were, that was the purpose for the constitution and foundation for this nation, the reason for the christian separatists coming to America in the first place was for prosecution and discrimination by religion. What makes it a christian nation is the majority of christians, it's a generalizing term.
What? Taxes were the reason that people moved to America. Religious freedom is what they tell you in grade school. It sounds more profound.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 03:13 PM
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It is well documented that religious freedom is why many came here. Take the Quakers, for one.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 06:08 PM
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The country was founded on Deism more so than Christianity. Not necessarily exclusive, but not the same either.
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 09:16 PM
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What about Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 10:36 PM
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It is well documented that religious freedom is why many came here. Take the Quakers, for one.
It was also well documented that the earth was flat, and that there was an actual battle at Wounded Knee.
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 02:29 PM
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What? Taxes were the reason that people moved to America. Religious freedom is what they tell you in grade school. It sounds more profound.
uh no, that's dead wrong - taxes was the reason skilled laborers and businessman moved, but the puritans, quakers, etc. didn't move because of taxes.. I guess you're going to sell a conspiracy now.
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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 06:59 PM
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uh no, that's dead wrong - taxes was the reason skilled laborers and businessman moved, but the puritans, quakers, etc. didn't move because of taxes.. I guess you're going to sell a conspiracy now.
Not sure about the quakers, but the puritans were christian extremists. Do you really want to say they left England for "religious freedom?" That's like a muslim leaving America and saying that we won't let him be muslim enough, so he moves to Afghanistan and joins a terrorist faction.
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post #31 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:53 PM
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It was also well documented that the earth was flat, and that there was an actual battle at Wounded Knee.
So you are saying that they didn't? Cause if we just want to deny all historical documentation of any kind, then we might as well not even argue. They did come here to escape religious persecution, among a few other groups as well. This isn't really one of those things thats just kinda open for speculation lol. My great grandmother was still alive until i was about 10, and she would tell us of how her very large family came to the US from italy in the early 1900's to get away from people there who would not let them worship in the way that they wanted to. Now while that's nowhere close to the beginning of the country, i think that it's real damn safe to assume that religious tolerance does not increase as you follow the time line backwards.

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post #32 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 05:31 AM
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I recommend you listen to Rick Green former Texas State Representative or David Barton. He brings a excellent message about how are country was founded on Christian belief's. David Barton resides in Aledo TX. Rick Green spoke at my church about 3 months ago I highly recommend if you get the opportunity to here him don't turn it down.

www.wallbuilders.com

Heres one of David's video it's 9 minutes but if your really wanting some solid answers in my opinion you will watch it.




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post #33 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 11:44 PM
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It was also well documented that the earth was flat...
Documented where, internet forums?

Wait, Washington Irving was 19th centrury, long before internet forums.

How about a 13th century university text (from when universities were run by the Church) called De sphaera mundi.

If you like looking at pictures, there are many images of Jesus Christ or earthly kings and emporers holding a Globus Cruciger.

Columbus was very religious and he believed the Earth was round. Those that said he was wrong did not believe the Earth was flat, they thought it was bigger than he thought. They were right, he was wrong.

The truth is, you don't need to spread false information to support your opinion if your opinion is well developed.

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post #34 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 12:00 AM
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This is an interesting link

http://home.earthlink.net/~gfeldmeth/colchart.html

Religious freedom for... does not mean religious freedom. It means freedom for that group to practice their religion as opposed to the Church of England.

The founding of the colonies are a mix of money and religion.

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post #35 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 05:24 PM
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So you are saying that they didn't? Cause if we just want to deny all historical documentation of any kind, then we might as well not even argue. They did come here to escape religious persecution, among a few other groups as well. This isn't really one of those things thats just kinda open for speculation lol. My great grandmother was still alive until i was about 10, and she would tell us of how her very large family came to the US from italy in the early 1900's to get away from people there who would not let them worship in the way that they wanted to. Now while that's nowhere close to the beginning of the country, i think that it's real damn safe to assume that religious tolerance does not increase as you follow the time line backwards.
What persecution? Please elaborate. What did they want to believe that they weren't allowed to believe as long as they payed their tithing?
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post #36 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 05:42 PM
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Documented where, internet forums?

Wait, Washington Irving was 19th centrury, long before internet forums.

How about a 13th century university text (from when universities were run by the Church) called De sphaera mundi.

If you like looking at pictures, there are many images of Jesus Christ or earthly kings and emporers holding a Globus Cruciger.

Columbus was very religious and he believed the Earth was round. Those that said he was wrong did not believe the Earth was flat, they thought it was bigger than he thought. They were right, he was wrong.

The truth is, you don't need to spread false information to support your opinion if your opinion is well developed.
First of all, Columbus wasn't the first person who believed the earth was round. Second of all...how old are the original images of Jesus holding a globe?

It was widely believed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. Both beliefs enforced by the church who for a LONG time ruled over countries, and if anyone opposed those beliefs, even if they had proof, they were often sentenced to house arrest or even death.

Long story short, organized religion has slowed down the social evolution of mankind so much that it's sickening. America wasn't FOUNDED on christian beliefs, but christian beliefs were definitely implemented over time and by certain individuals that were elected into office. However, according to historical documents, there was no written intention of using the christian faith and it's beliefs to run America.
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post #37 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 10:40 AM
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First of all, Columbus wasn't the first person who believed the earth was round. Second of all...how old are the original images of Jesus holding a globe?

It was widely believed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. Both beliefs enforced by the church who for a LONG time ruled over countries, and if anyone opposed those beliefs, even if they had proof, they were often sentenced to house arrest or even death.

Long story short, organized religion has slowed down the social evolution of mankind so much that it's sickening. America wasn't FOUNDED on christian beliefs, but christian beliefs were definitely implemented over time and by certain individuals that were elected into office. However, according to historical documents, there was no written intention of using the christian faith and it's beliefs to run America.
I agree with most of your statement here, but if most of the guys who founded the country were christians, (the forefathers) then it's pretty obvious that their beliefs were going to spill over into the government's decisions and political documents. I mean, how could they not? If you believe in something, be it religious or otherwise, and you are in charge of making a new set of rules, then what you believe in will spill over into it. I mean, a simplistic example might be that if i was starting a new country somewhere, and i don't believe in thievery, then obviously there is going to be a law against theft. So if any of those guys were Christians, then what they wrote will be at the very least influenced by their religion. Therefore, if they were Christians, and if they founded the country, (the founding fathers) then logic would suggest that yes this country was founded on Christian beliefs. You may not like it, but it doesn't even really matter. None of it really affects you anyway. We are not forced to go to church or live by any one religion's ways.

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post #38 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:14 PM
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First of all, Columbus wasn't the first person who believed the earth was round. Second of all...how old are the original images of Jesus holding a globe?
Exactly! Most people with an education (not the average serf farmer) believed the Earth was round. That is WHY there are symbols such as the Globus Cruciger.
Columbus said the Earth was small, others believed it was much larger than he believed. There was not an argument of whether it was flat or round. You are following the anti-Catholic fiction of Washington Irving from the 19th Century.
The Globus Cruciger dates back to the Christian Roman and Byzantine Emperors of the 5th century. Educated Christians knew the Earth was round. Un-Educated Americans following the teachings of Washington Irving which says Catholics believed the Earth was flat. Look this guy up.

This is a Hungarian coin (land locked country, not even sailors) from the 13th to 14th century. http://www.beastcoins.com/World/Hungary/E0153.jpg
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It was widely believed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe.
By whom? I back my arguments with facts. I even tell you who created YOUR myth. Satan is the father of all lies.
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Both beliefs enforced by the church who for a LONG time ruled over countries, and if anyone opposed those beliefs, even if they had proof, they were often sentenced to house arrest or even death.
If you are found wrong, try changing the subject again. The one with facts is me. I show images on coins, give the names of the symbols, and tell you who created YOUR myth, yet since my facts are opposed to your belief, I am wrong and you are still right. Would you sentence me to house arrest?
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Long story short, organized religion has slowed down the social evolution of mankind so much that it's sickening. America wasn't FOUNDED on christian beliefs, but christian beliefs were definitely implemented over time and by certain individuals that were elected into office. However, according to historical documents, there was no written intention of using the christian faith and it's beliefs to run America.
Fictional story to fact, although many of the fathers were not practicing Christians, their beliefs in a creator and rights endowed by that creator is the basis of our nation. Since these men lived in a Christian society, this creator is a Christian God and not something else.

If your assumption is correct, than the secular US would have outlawed slavery before all the Latin American nations. Oops.

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post #39 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-18-2009, 01:47 PM
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... silence... ** crickets**

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #40 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1 View Post
Exactly! Most people with an education (not the average serf farmer) believed the Earth was round. That is WHY there are symbols such as the Globus Cruciger.
Columbus said the Earth was small, others believed it was much larger than he believed. There was not an argument of whether it was flat or round. You are following the anti-Catholic fiction of Washington Irving from the 19th Century.
The Globus Cruciger dates back to the Christian Roman and Byzantine Emperors of the 5th century. Educated Christians knew the Earth was round. Un-Educated Americans following the teachings of Washington Irving which says Catholics believed the Earth was flat. Look this guy up.

This is a Hungarian coin (land locked country, not even sailors) from the 13th to 14th century. http://www.beastcoins.com/World/Hungary/E0153.jpg By whom? I back my arguments with facts. I even tell you who created YOUR myth. Satan is the father of all lies. If you are found wrong, try changing the subject again. The one with facts is me. I show images on coins, give the names of the symbols, and tell you who created YOUR myth, yet since my facts are opposed to your belief, I am wrong and you are still right. Would you sentence me to house arrest?Fictional story to fact, although many of the fathers were not practicing Christians, their beliefs in a creator and rights endowed by that creator is the basis of our nation. Since these men lived in a Christian society, this creator is a Christian God and not something else.

If your assumption is correct, than the secular US would have outlawed slavery before all the Latin American nations. Oops.
Sorry, I don't keep up with this religious argument as much as I used to. Not reading your whole post, but just the last part...

...how do you think the United States thrived? By fair labor laws? Haha! Why do you think China is kicking ass economically? Slavery= cheap labor. Cheap at best. Free labor essentially. Same thing with China right now. No labor laws. Make people produce...and pay them nothing, or next to nothing.

Once China establishes a legit labor workforce with laws, they're done for.
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post #41 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 07:36 PM
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It was founded by Protestants where Christmas and Easter later became national holidays based on the same belief. Because of the influx of Muslims, Buhdists and Hindu's those holidays are slowly being eroded away and generic names like "have a happy holiday" where we should say "Merry Christmas" are taking over. It's bs!!





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post #42 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 08:33 PM
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Court system is modeled after the book of Judges
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