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post #1 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Adam and Eve... Unravel

What was the state of their "being" before the apple was eaten?
If the ignorance of evil was the state before eating the apple, then how was the act of disobedience by deciding to eat the apple accomplished before the act?
If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of evil before the eating of the apple, why would they ejected from the garden after the eating. What was it about the Garden that would no longer accept them even though the Snake, deliverer of Evil, was already there?
Would not Adam and Eve be lesser beings without the knowledge of evil ("Incomplete People")?
Wouldn't, then, the highest mechanism of value in the Old and the New Testements be the ability to decide, even above accepting a crucified man as savior?
Is there a possibility we are ready this information incorrectly... through the wrong glasses
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post #2 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 08:07 AM
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They tried to set themselves up as being equal to God.
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post #3 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
They tried to set themselves up as being equal to God.
You will be like G#d.
So in a way they became like him because they understood the concept of evil.
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post #4 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 09:56 AM
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Trying to be "like" God is short of trying to be "equal" to God
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post #5 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Trying to be "like" God is short of trying to be "equal" to God
I don't see the connection. You must be cloaking your foundation.
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post #6 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FSON
I don't see the connection. You must be cloaking your foundation.
Consider it thus: when growing up, you might have wanted and tried to be like your father, knowing all the while however that you could never actually be your father.
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post #7 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Something doesn't seem to hold water in this story.
Why didn't these people have knowledge of evil.
Why did the spirit visit only once a day.
Being that He is, wouldn't He have been with them every minute of the day?
If it was such a perfect place, how and why was the Devil there?
If Adam and Eve were made to be so pure and ignorant, wouldn't they already know the inconsistancy before them as the Devil.

All this goes back to the foundational concept of choice. I see no other mechanism concept that drives choice.
It would seem the love of G#d would be more foundational.

So you see, the jigsaw puzzle appears to have some missing pieces and miss-matching parts from other puzzles.
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post #8 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FSON
Something doesn't seem to hold water in this story.
Why didn't these people have knowledge of evil.
Because they were made while and perfect, it babies don't have any knowledge of evil but are inclined to it as they get older due to inheritance.

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Originally Posted by FSON
Why did the spirit visit only once a day.
Why not? He was there, but they had a lot to get done in the first days on earth, naming, exploring, etc. They would have not learned much of the current state if they sat around talking instead of learning on their own, which God is big on.

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Originally Posted by FSON
Being that He is, wouldn't He have been with them every minute of the day?



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Originally Posted by FSON
If it was such a perfect place, how and why was the Devil there?
The devil still has access to anywhere...even heaven. Read JOB to see this in action.



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Originally Posted by FSON
If Adam and Eve were made to be so pure and ignorant, wouldn't they already know the inconsistancy before them as the Devil.

What was inconsistent? They were naive..what they were doing they thought was a good thing at first..... it wasn't what they did, it was the act. The disobedience was the sin.....

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post #9 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FSON
If it was such a perfect place, how and why was the Devil there?
The Devil, or Lucifer, was already in the Garden of Eden with God prior to the arrival of Adam (Ezekiel 28). His subsequent rebellion against the authority of God, by trying to place himself equal to God, is what ultimately led to Adam and Eve's downfall. What he tried and failed to do, he then succesfully tricked Eve and Adam into also trying.
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post #10 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
What was inconsistent? They were naive..what they were doing they thought was a good thing at first..... it wasn't what they did, it was the act. The disobedience was the sin.....
They were naive. How were they expected to know the difference and be punished because of their naivite?
The Garden of Eden was no Garden of Eden.
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
The Devil, or Lucifer, was already in the Garden of Eden with God prior to the arrival of Adam (Ezekiel 28). His subsequent rebellion against the authority of God, by trying to place himself equal to God, is what ultimately led to Adam and Eve's downfall. What he tried and failed to do, he then succesfully tricked Eve and Adam into also trying.
Again, punishment for naivite
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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 07:16 AM
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No, not naivete, rather an attempt to become equal to God. Adam and Eve did the same thing Lucifer did, and like him they failed. What is interesting as well was that Adam was given complete dominion over all the anaimals in God's Creation, and in a turnaround it was one of those animals, albeit the devil in disguise, that gained dominion over Eve.
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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
No, not naivete, rather an attempt to become equal to God. Adam and Eve did the same thing Lucifer did, and like him they failed. What is interesting as well was that Adam was given complete dominion over all the anaimals in God's Creation, and in a turnaround it was one of those animals, albeit the devil in disguise, that gained dominion over Eve.
If they had no knowledge of evil, why were they punished.
If they had no knowledge of evil, why were they punished.
So they were punished for wanting to be more like G#d. Keep yee down oh, human. Your quest for spiritual perfection will not come through me?

Wow, dominion over all the animals. That's a spiritual star in one's crown.
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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 08:07 AM
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They had no knowledge of evil until they disobeyed God. Disobedience carried consequences then, just as it does today.
They had no knowledge of evil until they disobeyed God. Disobedience carried consequences then, just as it does today.

They did not want to be like God, they wanted to be equal to God....re-read my first two posts in this thread. Same thing Lucifer wanted.

Dominion over all the animals sure beats submission to all the animals.
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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 08:23 AM
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Its not really that hard to understand, they were punished for disobedience, which they clearly did by choice.

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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
What was the state of their "being" before the apple was eaten?
What apple? The bible never said anything about an apple...do you mean forbidden fruit?
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Its not really that hard to understand, they were punished for disobedience, which they clearly did by choice.
How could they know disobedience when they were naive and did not know evil?
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
They did not want to be like God, they wanted to be equal to God....re-read my first two posts in this thread. Same thing Lucifer wanted.



Dominion over all the animals sure beats submission to all the animals.
Which translation are you using and what is the original word they are using as their reference?


Is dominion over animals supposed to be a special spiritual priviledge?
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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
What apple? The bible never said anything about an apple...do you mean forbidden fruit?
Apple, Fig, Knowledge, Yes, which one?
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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
How could they know disobedience when they were naive and did not know evil?
I really don't understand this question, but they DID know disobedience because they were told to NOT eat from the tree of knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Apple, Fig, Knowledge, Yes, which one?

I just wanted to set the record straight. If we are going by what the bible is saying, then we need to be accurate.
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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 11:42 AM
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How could they know disobedience when they were naive and did not know evil?

They knew disobedience. That is enough to be in rebellion. A newborn is still inheriting a sin nature, even though they have no knowledge of it. One does not have to "know" evil to know that what you are doing is wrong.

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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Which translation are you using and what is the original word they are using as their reference?


Is dominion over animals supposed to be a special spiritual priviledge?
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil......

Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: 1as
Pronunciation: \əz, (ˌ)az\
Function: adverb

1 : to the same degree or amount


Dominion over all the animals is indeed a special spiritual privelege, in that it allows us to extend our own grace to God's Creation, albeit to a much lesser degree than by which He extends His grace to us.
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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
They knew disobedience. That is enough to be in rebellion. A newborn is still inheriting a sin nature, even though they have no knowledge of it. One does not have to "know" evil to know that what you are doing is wrong.
So knowing wrong and knowing evil are separate.
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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil......

Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: 1as
Pronunciation: \əz, (ˌ)az\
Function: adverb

1 : to the same degree or amount


Dominion over all the animals is indeed a special spiritual privelege, in that it allows us to extend our own grace to God's Creation, albeit to a much lesser degree than by which He extends His grace to us.
Who is "US". Is knowing good and evil a good thing? If it is a good thing, why the punishment?

Where in the Bible does it expand on the spiritual qualities of having dominion over animals?
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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 01:25 PM
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So knowing wrong and knowing evil are separate.
Tell me your definition of evil and I can answer that for you. Evil is kind of a term that man has ascribed to anything from Satan to coffee.

The real issue is living in a state of disobedience. When they chose to do something they were told not to, they were instantly changed.

It is far more of a spiritual issue than it is a "who ate the fruit and why" situation.

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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Who is "US". Is knowing good and evil a good thing? If it is a good thing, why the punishment?
"US" is the Holy Trinity

Knowing good and evil in the case of Adam and Eve meant they took on that role for themselves....they attempted to set themselves up as God and decide for themselves what was righteous and what was not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Where in the Bible does it expand on the spiritual qualities of having dominion over animals?
God intended for His Creation to be that way. The fall of Adam and Eve turned that upside down: the serpent dominated Eve, who dominated Adam, who blamed God for his own misdeed. God, through His grace, restored His intended order by clothing the naked, ashamed Adam and Eve with skins sacrificed by animals.

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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
What apple? The bible never said anything about an apple...do you mean forbidden fruit?
The idea that the forbidden fruit was an apple may have had its genesis (pun intended ) in the similarity between the Latin words for apple (malam) and evil (malum).
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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Tell me your definition of evil and I can answer that for you. Evil is kind of a term that man has ascribed to anything from Satan to coffee.

The real issue is living in a state of disobedience. When they chose to do something they were told not to, they were instantly changed.

It is far more of a spiritual issue than it is a "who ate the fruit and why" situation.
The point is to draw out the Bible's definition or lack of.

If Adam and Eve were in a state of naivite, how was Eve able to make a bad decision?

The Spirit came to them in the evening. Isn't Spirit always already there?
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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:14 PM
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The point is to draw out the Bible's definition or lack of.

If Adam and Eve were in a state of naivite, how was Eve able to make a bad decision?

The Spirit came to them in the evening. Isn't Spirit always already there?

I don't think that you are reading what I am saying.... being naive does not protect you from making bad choices, otherwise when a 3 year old says " I don't know" ..it would be a valid excuse.

As far as the spirit, of course He was there, but only available to them at that time of the day. They were busy, as I stated earlier.

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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
"US" is the Holy Trinity

Knowing good and evil in the case of Adam and Eve meant they took on that role for themselves....they attempted to set themselves up as God and decide for themselves what was was righteous and what was not.



God intended for His Creation to be that way. The fall of Adam and Eve turned that upside down: the serpent dominated Eve, who dominated Adam, who blamed God for his own misdeed. God, through His grace, restored His intended order by clothing the naked, ashamed Adam and Eve with skins sacrificed by animals.
If they did not know evil, how could they make the decision that from then on they would decide what was good and evil?
How is nakedness and shame related according to the Bible. Why is nakedness not shamefull in a state of naivite? Is nakedness evil? Why should it be hidden?
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post #31 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think that you are reading what I am saying.... being naive does not protect you from making bad choices, otherwise when a 3 year old says " I don't know" ..it would be a valid excuse.

As far as the spirit, of course He was there, but only available to them at that time of the day. They were busy, as I stated earlier.
Using your analogy, by eating of the fruit of knowledge, and sinning, Adam and Eve grew spiritually.
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post #32 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:57 PM
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Using your analogy, by eating of the fruit of knowledge, and sinning, Adam and Eve grew spiritually.

You might say that spiritually they became more aware. This is not always a god thing. In this case, it was the ultimate. Simply knowing something will not cause one to grow. Often times it can hinder, and in this case, it killed.

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post #33 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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You might say that spiritually they became more aware. This is not always a god thing. In this case, it was the ultimate. Simply knowing something will not cause one to grow. Often times it can hinder, and in this case, it killed.
So one can become spiritually more aware and not grow spiritually. I guess they didn't attend the right church.
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post #34 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FSON
If they did not know evil, how could they make the decision that from then on they would decide what was good and evil?
How is nakedness and shame related according to the Bible. Why is nakedness not shamefull in a state of naivite? Is nakedness evil? Why should it be hidden?
Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, there was no need to question. The garden was PERFECT, in every way, and Adam and Eve was WITH God. Sin did not interfere with their thinking, because they were PURE (not naive.)

After the fall, Adam and Eve saw eachother for the first time, no longer though God, but through eachother's eyes. Nakedness isn't evil, but it takes our eyes and mind off God. Also, the bible says the covered themselves to hide from God

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Using your analogy, by eating of the fruit of knowledge, and sinning, Adam and Eve grew spiritually.
Wrong. By his analogy, they FELL from spiritually.

Last edited by Bobba Fett; 08-12-2008 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Added to post
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post #35 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, there was no need to question. The garden was PERFECT, in every way, and Adam and Eve was WITH God. Sin did not interfere with their thinking, because they were PURE (not naive.)

After the fall, Adam and Eve saw eachother for the first time, no longer though God, but through eachother's eyes. Nakedness isn't evil, but it takes our eyes and mind off God.



Wrong. By his analogy, they FELL from spiritually.
If the garden was perfect how did the snake get there?
If they were pure, how was Eve able to make the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge.
Why wasn't the tree called the tree of sin?
If God made us in his own image, how does this creations detract from him?
How did they fall spiritually... in what respect?
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post #36 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:19 PM
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So one can become spiritually more aware and not grow spiritually. I guess they didn't attend the right church.

*sigh..I had hoped that you were actually looking for an answer, but I can see that you are just baiting. You answer a statement with another vague question. Maybe Bobba or Mr. can answer you to your satisfaction.

You are talking in circles as all of these were answered above.

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post #37 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
If the garden was perfect how did the snake get there?
If they were pure, how was Eve able to make the decision to eat of the tree of knowledge.
Why wasn't the tree called the tree of sin?
If God made us in his own image, how does this creations detract from him?
How did they fall spiritually... in what respect?
1.)Read Genesis Chapter 3
2.)Eve was tempted, but still, the decision was hers and hers alone.
3.)Who cares what the tress is called...God said to not eat from it. Also, the word sin is not used in Genesis Chapter 3
4.)Dunno what is being asked...
5.)We fell spiritually that day...the great fall of man. From Adam onward, men will be born into sin because of Adam and Eve. (Original sin)

Last edited by Bobba Fett; 08-12-2008 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Change text
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post #38 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:39 PM
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I think it is also important to note that the bible never said that the snake is or was under the control of Satan:

Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
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post #39 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
If the garden was perfect how did the snake get there?
I answered that already in post #9. Lucifer was with God in the Garden of Eden before he rebelled against God, and before God created Adam and Eve. I suggest you get a Bible, and read the Scriptures for yourself. flashtang04 alluded to this in his last post. Try it, you'll like what it tells you.....I do.
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post #40 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I answered that already in post #9. Lucifer was with God in the Garden of Eden before he rebelled against God, and before God created Adam and Eve. I suggest you get a Bible, and read the Scriptures for yourself. flashtang04 alluded to this in his last post. Try it, you'll like what it tells you.....I do.

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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 04:29 PM
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OOPS

Ich bin ein dummkopf!!!
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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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I have read it.

Did animals forfeit their ability to speak when Adam and Eve left the garden?
Why should Adam and Eve be ashamed of their nakedness before G#d?
When the serpent said that they would not die, was it talking about flesh or spirit?
Why would G#d punish Adam and Eve? There was no indication that punishment was the consequence.
Is the tree of life the same tree that was the forbidden tree in the center of the garden and how do you know?
If Adam and Eve had free will, wouldn't they already know what the difference was between good and evil? They would know it was "Evil" to eat of the tree in the center of the garden.

So you see, there are many questions to be asked and many answers to be questioned. There are many leaks in this chapter with no precedence to plug the leaks. You may refer to later chapters, but I could also offer my interpretation which is just as valid.

Now, no one has offered any answers to the above questions that have not been spoon fed them by some earthly authority. I suggest asking yourself some questions about this chapter. Pick it apart, piece by piece, look at all angles, definitions, original multiple definitions, and put it back together. An answer or a new question might come to you in a flash.
Most often, an insightful question is more important than an insightful answer.

Why all this? The whole of the Bible hinges on chapter 3. I don't think any of you who have answered this thread have really considered the depth of this chapter.

"How then should we live?"
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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 08:22 AM
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If you "have read it" as you say, why do you ask, for instance, your question #5:
Is the tree of life the same tree that was the forbidden tree in the center of the garden and how do you know?

Genesis 2:9 (KJV) and Genesis 2:17 (KJV) directly answer your question. It appears to be you who are looking to be spoon fed by earthly authorities...are you simply too lazy to read for yourself?
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
I have read it.

Did animals forfeit their ability to speak when Adam and Eve left the garden?
Why should Adam and Eve be ashamed of their nakedness before G#d?
When the serpent said that they would not die, was it talking about flesh or spirit?
Why would G#d punish Adam and Eve? There was no indication that punishment was the consequence.
Is the tree of life the same tree that was the forbidden tree in the center of the garden and how do you know?
If Adam and Eve had free will, wouldn't they already know what the difference was between good and evil? They would know it was "Evil" to eat of the tree in the center of the garden.

So you see, there are many questions to be asked and many answers to be questioned. There are many leaks in this chapter with no precedence to plug the leaks. You may refer to later chapters, but I could also offer my interpretation which is just as valid.

Now, no one has offered any answers to the above questions that have not been spoon fed them by some earthly authority. I suggest asking yourself some questions about this chapter. Pick it apart, piece by piece, look at all angles, definitions, original multiple definitions, and put it back together. An answer or a new question might come to you in a flash.
Most often, an insightful question is more important than an insightful answer.

Why all this? The whole of the Bible hinges on chapter 3. I don't think any of you who have answered this thread have really considered the depth of this chapter.

"How then should we live?"
FSON, very insightful! You are right, many things can be picked out in Genesis Chapter 3, and there are many questions and answers that can be found though out the entire bible.

What I don't agree on is "the whole bible hinges on Gen. C3" part. The Bible is made for new testament believers, and having a discussion about part of the old testament isn't really my place. A person more suited would be a jew, as it is more part of their study. I also think many of your questions could be answered here, but really no one wants to debate with you. If these were questions a believer was asking, I would bet people would be more willing to convey an answer, as they would not have to hand feed you the bible like a nursing baby (not be mean, everyone starts out as a newborn when you are born again.)

Also FSON, have you read the bible? How can you debate about a book you haven't completely read? I had to paste Gen C3 just to point out that there was no apple, and no mention of satan.
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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
If you "have read it" as you say, why do you ask, for instance, your question #5:
Is the tree of life the same tree that was the forbidden tree in the center of the garden and how do you know?

Genesis 2:9 (KJV) and Genesis 2:17 (KJV) directly answer your question. It appears to be you who are looking to be spoon fed by earthly authorities...are you simply too lazy to read for yourself?
It does not say they are different.
How did they die after the eating.
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post #46 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
FSON, very insightful! You are right, many things can be picked out in Genesis Chapter 3, and there are many questions and answers that can be found though out the entire bible.

What I don't agree on is "the whole bible hinges on Gen. C3" part. The Bible is made for new testament believers, and having a discussion about part of the old testament isn't really my place. A person more suited would be a jew, as it is more part of their study. I also think many of your questions could be answered here, but really no one wants to debate with you. If these were questions a believer was asking, I would bet people would be more willing to convey an answer, as they would not have to hand feed you the bible like a nursing baby (not be mean, everyone starts out as a newborn when you are born again.)

Also FSON, have you read the bible? How can you debate about a book you haven't completely read? I had to paste Gen C3 just to point out that there was no apple, and no mention of satan.
I make it a point to read all "literture" as if a newborne.

C3 is the foundation.
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post #47 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON

C3 is the foundation.

If you truly know that then explain why, maybe that will get your point across more.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
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post #48 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Because it is the initial structure of G#d's relationship with man. It is the foundation. Any change in the "read" of C3 changes the "read" throughout the Bible. How do you read C3 without precedents.

I'm not trying to force my viewpoint on anyone or try to get a free ride from someone elses reading. This is an attempt to examine a chapter by circumventing preconceptions of authority and habit.
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post #49 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 09:33 AM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Because it is the initial structure of G#d's relationship with man. It is the foundation. Any change in the "read" of C3 changes the "read" throughout the Bible. How do you read C3 without precedents.

I'm not trying to force my viewpoint on anyone or try to get a free ride from someone elses reading. This is an attempt to examine a chapter by circumventing preconceptions of authority and habit.

Well you won't get many replies by saying that someone "spoon fed" us our ideas. That is condescending and shows a "I know I'm right already" attitude, and eventually people are going to just ignore you in what could be a really good conversation.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
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post #50 of 56 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
Well you won't get many replies by saying that someone "spoon fed" us our ideas. That is condescending and shows a "I know I'm right already" attitude, and eventually people are going to just ignore you in what could be a really good conversation.
You are correct, sir.
It would have come across different in person (hand gestures, facial expression, wink, etc.), my blunder.
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