I would like to get your full opinion, of these 3 churches. - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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I would like to get your full opinion, of these 3 churches.

1. Southern babtists. Specifically southern.

2.E-piss-ca-pale-eons. I had no idea how to spell that, so i wont even try. I just sounded it out.

3. The church of Christ. Seems like an interesting one to me.

Anyway, if you actually know anything about any of these three churches, i would like to know your thoughts and opinions of them. If you dont, and are just going to say God isnt real and those churches are full of crap, then please fuck off and get the hell out of my thread.

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 07:10 PM
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Do some research on carm.org
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 02:03 AM
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My suggestion is to find a non-demoniacal "bible" church that simply teaches the word. Visit some of these kinds of churches and see if you like what they are preaching.

I happen to go to a "baptist" church but they don't really fit the mold of the stereotypical bible thumping fire and brimstone "no dancing" baptists. It is a pretty cool place. Point is, find a church that you like and that you can belong to/serve in.
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. Anyone else? Anyone had any personal experience with any of these?

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i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 08:00 PM
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Those are 3 very different beliefs. Like Mike above, we are members of a "Baptist" church, but it's very liberal with a lot of good music and a great pastor. Visit several churches before settling in with one.

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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
Thanks for the replies. Anyone else? Anyone had any personal experience with any of these?
I enjoy the Baptist churches the most.
I find Baptist to be well founded in the basic Protestant theology. However, most of them are run pretty independently, so you'll run into the occasion "pastor gone wild".

I don't know anything about Episcopalian.

I've been in several different Church of Christ. I don't like these churches. I generally think of them as uneducated, which is weird considering there is a college level to them. They always give me the impression that they operate like the church has no history and the bible was originally written in English. They can't seem to complete a sermon without talking down about the other denominations. In hip-hop terms they are "haters".

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 07:30 AM
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I enjoy the Baptist churches the most.
I find Baptist to be well founded in the basic Protestant theology. However, most of them are run pretty independently, so you'll run into the occasion "pastor gone wild".

I don't know anything about Episcopalian.

I've been in several different Church of Christ. I don't like these churches. I generally think of them as uneducated, which is weird considering there is a college level to them. They always give me the impression that they operate like the church has no history and the bible was originally written in English. They can't seem to complete a sermon without talking down about the other denominations. In hip-hop terms they are "haters".
You beat me to the punch about haters.
My observation of these people is they have a hierarchy that mentally enslaves those below.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 08:36 AM
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I agree with the statement that Baptist churches tend to be the most adaptable, and fitting to a protestant lifestyle. I would also suggest finding a bible teaching church like Calvary Chapel, or Grace church.


Episcopalians are very much like Catholics in the fact that tradition comes before many other things, and is a very big part of the service. In fact, it is even in the creed.

Scripture, Tradition, Reason....in that order. The problem with this is that it limits growth and adaptation for the times, so membership will be less and less as time goes on. It is very close to Catholicism in the fact that it is very tradition based, they repeat certain things in service like a chant out of "the book of common prayer". Some also believe in the sacraments along with confession and confirmation.



Church of Christ has come a long way. In the traditional sense, they believed that anyone that was NOT a member of the C.O.C was going to hell. If you were a Baptist, etc. you were gonna burn. They have since mostly done away with this belief because not only is it bad for publicity and finances, it is becoming known to most of the Church of Christ pastors to be completely ridiculous. For instance, Max Lucado is Church of Christ and is one of the greatest pastors in history in my opinion. He is truly gifted. He had to start his own church though because basically he was not satisfied that the C.O.C. he was a member of had it right. They also do not believe in worship with instruments. You will only find traditional hymns sung a cappella (although the old testament clearly says to do so). They also have "steps" to salvation, rather than praying the sinners prayer, they are:

1. One must be properly taught, and hear
2. One must believe-and build faith
3. One must repent, which means turning from one's former lifestyle and choosing God's ways
4. One must confess belief that Jesus is the son of God
5. One must be baptized
6. One must remain faithful unto death



They all believe in Christ as Redeemer, it's just up to you to decide what fits you best and what will enable you to grow. For me, stagnant tradition, while has its place for historical purposes, does not allow me to grow as much as something that changes and adapts with the times while keeping Christ first and foremost as the ONLY thing that brings salvation and reconciliation.


Anyway, hope this helps some....

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 10:11 AM
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C.O.C.

Lack of instruments is both lip service to the original church and a publicity stunt. If they want to be true to the original church, then they should. First try the language. It certainly wasn't English with a southern accent.

They confuse "Spiritual Warfare" with Hate.
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-30-2008, 12:54 PM
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If you are a baptist and you want to drink, or a catholic and want a divorce, you go to an episcopal church
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-30-2008, 01:39 PM
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Liquor stores on the Arkansas side of Texarkana seem to nearly all have so-called "Baptist Windows" where a patron can drive up and buy their favorite beverage without having to get out of their vehicle. The strategic placement of said windows around the rear of the establishments assists the good Baptist in avoiding being seen by his brethren patronizing such a heathen place.
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-30-2008, 01:59 PM
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I know for a fact, The Jesus Christ did NOT drink wine.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-30-2008, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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As the saying goes: 2000 years ago Jesus converted water into wine. Christians have been trying to turn it back into water ever since...lol.

But anyway. So no church of christ unless you wana be around a buncha haters lol. Sounds like southern babtist it is.

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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 08:42 PM
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As the saying goes: 2000 years ago Jesus converted water into wine. Christians have been trying to turn it back into water ever since...lol.
Not even half of the worlds Christians are opposed to alcohol consumption.

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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Not even half of the worlds Christians are opposed to alcohol consumption.
Still, a great many are. The Church of Christ, for one. I have been to one a couple times, and they seem to hate alchohol consumption.

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 10:28 PM
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My suggestion is to find a non-demoniacal "bible" church that simply teaches the word. Visit some of these kinds of churches and see if you like what they are preaching.

I happen to go to a "baptist" church but they don't really fit the mold of the stereotypical bible thumping fire and brimstone "no dancing" baptists. It is a pretty cool place. Point is, find a church that you like and that you can belong to/serve in.
Wow... same advice and same situation for me.
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-09-2008, 07:33 PM
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Still, a great many are. The Church of Christ, for one. I have been to one a couple times, and they seem to hate alchohol consumption.
Christians are also tying to get McCain elected and Christians are trying to get Obama elected....

That is the wonderful world of Christians not being one as the Father and I (Jesus) are one. Anyone can open his own church according to his own interpretation of scripture.

But back to your irrelevant point most Christians are not opposed to consumption of alcohol. In fact, a majority of Christians use it in thier litergy.

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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Christians are also tying to get McCain elected and Christians are trying to get Obama elected....

That is the wonderful world of Christians not being one as the Father and I (Jesus) are one. Anyone can open his own church according to his own interpretation of scripture.

But back to your irrelevant point most Christians are not opposed to consumption of alcohol. In fact, a majority of Christians use it in thier litergy.
Sigh... I wasn't trying to make a point, it's just an old saying.

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"

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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 12:30 AM
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It's not an irrelevant point, you dumbass, it's just an old saying.
Brain wants you to become a Catholic
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 06:51 AM
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Brain wants you to become a Catholic
Phillystang wants to be His own Pope and accepts false witness as an acceptable means to an end?

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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 08:28 AM
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You guys should discuss it over a beer....

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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 01:49 PM
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Those are 3 very different beliefs. Like Mike above, we are members of a "Baptist" church, but it's very liberal with a lot of good music and a great pastor. Visit several churches before settling in with one.
How are Baptists liberal? I am a Baptist have been all my life and have gone to the same church all my life but I have visited other churches that are Baptist, and none are anywhere close to libral we are way more on the consevitave side.
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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 01:57 PM
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Dont be a C.O.C lol my girlfriend is one and I have been to church with her many times and I always feel the same way every time I leave, I feel like I havent learned a thing, maybe its just the pastor but it seems his sermons are very "dumbed down" for lack of a better term. And there is nothin wrong with playing instruments as a way of worship. I play guitar during worship at my church and that is my way of worship and i truly believe if the voice caint say it the guitar will play it lol
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 02:22 PM
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Phillystang wants to be His own Pope and accepts false witness as an acceptable means to an end?
Christ is the head of the Church, not me or your Popey Benedict.
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Christ is the head of the Church, not me or your Popey Benedict.
I would have to agree, the catholic church is obviously just some large man made organization. I dont believe in all that pope stuff.

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 03:15 PM
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I would have to agree, the catholic church is obviously just some large man made organization. I dont believe in all that pope stuff.

All men are just men..therefore fallible. That is the big thing that is missed.

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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 05:37 PM
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A Man named Jesus said, “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”
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Christ is the head of the Church, not me or your Popey Benedict.
You are correct. But you put your book down too soon.

"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

But this is Peter and not Benedict. What did Peter say about empty offices?

He said, "My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus. He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.... May another take his office.'

So the man with the keys says that an office must be filled when it is empty.

What scripture or logic says this does not apply to his office?

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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
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A Man named Jesus said, “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”You are correct. But you put your book down too soon.

"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

But this is Peter and not Benedict. What did Peter say about empty offices?

He said, "My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus. He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.... May another take his office.'

So the man with the keys says that an office must be filled when it is empty.

What scripture or logic says this does not apply to his office?
That is eisegesis, reading your own ideas into the text. The replacing of Judas the betrayer has nothing to do with a replacement of Peter, or that what Christ gave to Peter would be passed down to successors.
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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When i see stuff like that, it kinda confuses me and i take it to be all well beyond my realm of understanding. You say he puts his own words in there, but how can you not? You were not there talking to the man that said them, so how can you really claim to know what the true meaning was? And, that really looks like it's barely even translatable into English. To me it seems that to much time has passed to really be sure what a lot of it was supposed to mean. I mean sure i get the gist of it and all. But some of it...

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 08:58 PM
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That is eisegesis, reading your own ideas into the text. The replacing of Judas the betrayer has nothing to do with a replacement of Peter, or that what Christ gave to Peter would be passed down to successors.
I asked for either scripture or logic, this response is neither.

I think you mean exegesis which is a critical interpretation of a text. Critical is good.

Using exegesis, what do keys mean to the Jews? Jesus is the King, the head of the Church. I think you agree with this. Isaiah Chapter 22 talks about keys, what does it say?

God is not pleased with the Master of the Palace, so this is what He says, ”On that day I will summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah; I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open."

How does this language compare to the language Jesus used with Peter? “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

When the master of the palace dies, why would the office disappear? Does a prime minister position die with the office holder? We see the key passed from one man to another in Isaiah. We see Judas' office filled.

Where is the scripture to say Peter's authority died with Peter?

I know you love making fun of the title Pope with your clever iterations like Popey. But what does Pope mean? It means father, from the Greek Pappas. "He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah."

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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 09:31 PM
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When i see stuff like that, it kinda confuses me and i take it to be all well beyond my realm of understanding. You say he puts his own words in there, but how can you not? You were not there talking to the man that said them, so how can you really claim to know what the true meaning was? And, that really looks like it's barely even translatable into English. To me it seems that to much time has passed to really be sure what a lot of it was supposed to mean. I mean sure i get the gist of it and all. But some of it...
Great question.

The students of the apostles wrote letters which survive today. Although not scripture, they are historic at minimal.

Clement of Rome was instructed by Peter and Paul.
Ignatius of Antioch was instructed by Peter and Paul.
Polycarp of Smyrna (Smyrna is one of the Churches mentioned in the Revelation of John) was instructed by John.

All three of these men wrote letters which survive today.

There are also ancient Christian writings such as the Didache which predates some New Testament books.

Now let’s say that a modern preacher (let’s call him James) is preaching from the Gospel According to John something which completely contradicts the writings of Polycarp (a student of John). Who is more likely to understand John, Polycarp of James?

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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 11:10 PM
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I asked for either scripture or logic, this response is neither.

I think you mean exegesis which is a critical interpretation of a text. Critical is good.

Using exegesis, what do keys mean to the Jews? Jesus is the King, the head of the Church. I think you agree with this. Isaiah Chapter 22 talks about keys, what does it say?

God is not pleased with the Master of the Palace, so this is what He says, ”On that day I will summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah; I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open."

How does this language compare to the language Jesus used with Peter? “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

When the master of the palace dies, why would the office disappear? Does a prime minister position die with the office holder? We see the key passed from one man to another in Isaiah. We see Judas' office filled.

Where is the scripture to say Peter's authority died with Peter?

I know you love making fun of the title Pope with your clever iterations like Popey. But what does Pope mean? It means father, from the Greek Pappas. "He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah."
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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Who is more likely to understand John, Polycarp of James?
Im afraid i dont get the meaning of this, either.

As for the authority dying: I am afraid to me thats a losing battle. Naturally, man makes and uses authority. So that alone is a big argument against the catholic way IMO. It stands to reason that man would add to, and make an authority out of all this. Not only that, but why is any humanly authority even needed? There is only one authority that really matters. I dont need some hierarchy telling me what to do, all i have to do is read it. To say that no, you must use us is just... well to me it just proves you wrong instantly. In order for the bible to be able to work for everyone that ever lived, God would have to have designed it for someone who did not have access to, (or maybe never even heard of) the Catholic church.

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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 05:49 AM
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PhillyStang, why do you still post one-sided edited debates? Why not post complete debates?

Because you can’t support yourself with scripture or logical reasoning?

Not even James White can point to scripture when he claims that authority died with Peter. Why not show the rebuttles by Father Mitch?

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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by justinsn95
Im afraid i dont get the meaning of this, either.
What is there to understand. Polycarp would know what John meant better than someone who read his portions of the Bible 1900 years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
As for the authority dying: I am afraid to me thats a losing battle. Naturally, man makes and uses authority. So that alone is a big argument against the catholic way IMO. It stands to reason that man would add to, and make an authority out of all this. Not only that, but why is any humanly authority even needed? There is only one authority that really matters.
How is it a losing battle? The authority comes from God.

John writes: The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

How has the Father sent Jesus? Matthew writes: Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

True, man can make and use authority. That is why the Protestant Reformation has splintered Christianity so much. Each person created his own authority. We have 40,000 denominations in the USA alone. That is not being one as the Father and Son are one. Each person is inspired by the Holy Spirit, but have different interpretations. Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? The 3 denominations above are all from Holy Spirit inspiration but completely different.

There is one authority, but he has shared it as is shown above from John and Matthew.

To say that no authority is needed is claiming that Jesus intended for 40,000 denominations in the USA alone. The Old Testament shows the need for authority from Exodus, through Joshua, Judges, Chronicles and Kings. Remember, David and Solomon worshiped in the temple and led the liturgy while it was the kingdom of Israel after the split that started worshiping on the mountain tops away from the temple. This is the same thing that happens again and again in the USA everytime a church split and forms another church. James White (one of Phillystang's favorites) is not even Baptist, he is Reform Baptist. Why is he not a Baptist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
I dont need some hierarchy telling me what to do, all i have to do is read it. To say that no, you must use us is just... well to me it just proves you wrong instantly. In order for the bible to be able to work for everyone that ever lived, God would have to have designed it for someone who did not have access to, (or maybe never even heard of) the Catholic church.
You bring up a great point here, but it speaks for not against a single authoritative Church.

The printing press was not created until 1439. Even then, most people could not read of afford a cheaper printed Bible. It is not possible for a Bible only evangelization until after the 15th century. But, scripture say “faith comes from hearing”. “Go into the world and proclaim the Gospel.” Unfortunately, you are thinking in a 18th-21st century mindset and not a universal mindset.

Again, Chronicles and Kings both show people interpreting worship in their own way and the problems with it.

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang
That is eisegesis, reading your own ideas into the text.
I found the correct phrase

It is an hermeneutic of anachronism.

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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1
I found the correct phrase

It is an hermeneutic of anachronism.
Is that opposed to reading the author's correct initial intentions?
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Is that opposed to reading the author's correct initial intentions?
right
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1
PhillyStang, why do you still post one-sided edited debates? Why not post complete debates?

Because you can’t support yourself with scripture or logical reasoning?

Not even James White can point to scripture when he claims that authority died with Peter. Why not show the rebuttles by Father Mitch?
The video is posted because it is on topic with the argument against the papal office.

You are the one bringing up Isaiah 22 and somehow contorting it to relate to Peter and the keys. Once again that is poor exegesis reaching back to unrelated, other context Old Testament passages to seek to create a line of succession from Peter. What you want it to say isn't there in context and so you have to reach back to non related texts to seek to make it mean what you want it to, I don't have to do that. There is no description of Peter being the head over all of the churches, or that there would be a replacement with the same authority as Peter. Try again.
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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Well from your posts you have made it clear that it is all just interpretation. You read it and understand it one way, and i another. Does that mean i am going to hell because i don't agree with the next guy on the silly minor details? Only if God is not at all who or what he claims to be. He would know that if i really want the truth, the only person i can trust is me. If i am a sane and reasonable man, i can't just take the word of some guy yelling it out to the masses. I need to read and understand for myself. Well, if what i read and understand is different slightly than you, there is nothing wrong with that and thus i have no need for your overly large and institutionalized church, with it's hierarchy of men. I do not trust human beings they are flawed.

And thus, your church is flawed. Is it not made up entirely and comprised only of human beings? I never saw any angels or demons or aliens sitting in the pews, or giving a sermon. What we are really arguing about here, is power. Who submits to who. Who gives money to who. Who says what goes. Well i submit to only one. And he is not a flawed human being. And i really hav'nt found anything in the bible where he would have any problem with that. I don't read it as "Now Justin, you need to listen to this man. He is a little smarter than you and he can read a little better. And he spends more time at the church. So he is higher than you and you need to just do what he says".

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i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
Well from your posts you have made it clear that it is all just interpretation. You read it and understand it one way, and i another. Does that mean i am going to hell because i don't agree with the next guy on the silly minor details? Only if God is not at all who or what he claims to be. He would know that if i really want the truth, the only person i can trust is me. If i am a sane and reasonable man, i can't just take the word of some guy yelling it out to the masses. I need to read and understand for myself. Well, if what i read and understand is different slightly than you, there is nothing wrong with that and thus i have no need for your overly large and institutionalized church, with it's hierarchy of men. I do not trust human beings they are flawed.

And thus, your church is flawed. Is it not made up entirely and comprised only of human beings? I never saw any angels or demons or aliens sitting in the pews, or giving a sermon. What we are really arguing about here, is power. Who submits to who. Who gives money to who. Who says what goes. Well i submit to only one. And he is not a flawed human being. And i really hav'nt found anything in the bible where he would have any problem with that. I don't read it as "Now Justin, you need to listen to this man. He is a little smarter than you and he can read a little better. And he spends more time at the church. So he is higher than you and you need to just do what he says".


Christ is the standard of measure.

Nothing else, including the church, marriage, tradition or any variant or lack thereof, can get you into heaven or out of hell apart from Jesus Christ.

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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-13-2008, 05:03 PM
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What can I tell ya`

I been a Baptist pastor for 18 years. Not the preacher you understand, but a Missions pastor and ministry pastor. If there is any one thing I can tell you for sure about us Baptists it is this: EVERY SINGLE BAPTIST CHURCH IS DIFFERENT.

You just gotta go see for yourself and find out what the individual place is like before making a commitment there. Try meeting with the pastor a time or two and some of the other staff to see if they are genuine people. You will know if they are real people who love God & people or just pulpit jockies & windbags after just a personal meeting or two.

PM me any time and I'll be happy to meet you tell you anything you wanna know.

Alright people, pay attention:
"To Many " is an address like in a toast or tribute while "Too Many " is an implication of excess.



I think I am the only non-fox guy out here!
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang
right
We better get the Meaning Police in here.
There is no reason to debate the Bible, the meaning is quite clear. I personally know the exact intentions of every author of every book of the Bible and every post on this thread. People, you have no escape from my power.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
We better get the Meaning Police in here.
There is no reason to debate the Bible, the meaning is quite clear. I personally know the exact intentions of every author of every book of the Bible and every post on this thread. People, you have no escape from my power.
Jews have been debating the oral version of the Laws of Moses since the time of their revelation. No different really than what we Christians do concerning New Testament Scripture.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Jews have been debating the oral version of the Laws of Moses since the time of their revelation. No different really than what we Christians do concerning New Testament Scripture.
Patent
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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
We better get the Meaning Police in here.
There is no reason to debate the Bible, the meaning is quite clear. I personally know the exact intentions of every author of every book of the Bible and every post on this thread. People, you have no escape from my power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-15-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
Well from your posts you have made it clear that it is all just interpretation. You read it and understand it one way, and i another. Does that mean i am going to hell because i don't agree with the next guy on the silly minor details? Only if God is not at all who or what he claims to be. He would know that if i really want the truth, the only person i can trust is me. If i am a sane and reasonable man, i can't just take the word of some guy yelling it out to the masses. I need to read and understand for myself. Well, if what i read and understand is different slightly than you, there is nothing wrong with that and thus i have no need for your overly large and institutionalized church, with it's hierarchy of men. I do not trust human beings they are flawed.

And thus, your church is flawed. Is it not made up entirely and comprised only of human beings? I never saw any angels or demons or aliens sitting in the pews, or giving a sermon. What we are really arguing about here, is power. Who submits to who. Who gives money to who. Who says what goes. Well i submit to only one. And he is not a flawed human being. And i really hav'nt found anything in the bible where he would have any problem with that. I don't read it as "Now Justin, you need to listen to this man. He is a little smarter than you and he can read a little better. And he spends more time at the church. So he is higher than you and you need to just do what he says".
I understand what you are saying, but as you study on your own, I pray that you will eventually see that, although men are flawed, Jesus does call us to join together. We are called to be part of the one Body of Christ not the 40,000 bodies of Christ. Any of the 3 above denominations are closer to the scripture than going it alone.

Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

As for listening to valid preachers (these words were not spoken to the masses), Luke 10:16Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.

“The community of believers was of one heart and mind….”

“I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.”

This does not even make sense if there are 40,000 denominations: If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-15-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
Christ is the standard of measure.

Nothing else, including the church, marriage, tradition or any variant or lack thereof, can get you into heaven or out of hell apart from Jesus Christ.
Amen Brother.

03 Mach1
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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-16-2008, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
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Well i agree that it says we need to come together. We differ as to where and how, sort of. You know what i mean. Anyway, how can we come together if we can not agree as to how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinsn95
Well i agree that it says we need to come together. We differ as to where and how, sort of. You know what i mean. Anyway, how can we come together if we can not agree as to how?
Slowly, the Orthodox Churches and some Anglican communities have been returning to the universal Church.

Any church that is a spin off of this.... or that.... obviously is not working towards unity of believers unless they are working to heal some wounds and return to their root denomination.

As an individual, you should start with a church working for unity.

If you want to know about people coming together instead of splintering apart,

Check out http://www.chnetwork.org/Secondaryintro.html

03 Mach1
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Last edited by Brain_Mach1; 08-18-2008 at 08:17 PM.
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