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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Scott (Casper)

I don't know if you saw this or not.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archi...7/1184950.aspx

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Scriptural scholars are abuzz over a stone tablet that is said to bear previously unknown prophecies about a Jewish messiah who would rise from the dead in three days. But there are far more questions than answers about the tablet, which some have suggested could represent "a new Dead Sea Scroll in stone."

Do the tablet and the inked text really date back to the first century B.C., as claimed? Where did the artifact come from? Can the gaps in the text be filled in to make sense? Is the seeming reference to a coming resurrection correct, and to whom does that passage refer? Finally, what impact would a pre-Christian reference to suffering, death and resurrection have on Christian scholarship?

Such questions are being addressed this week in Jerusalem, at an international conference marking the 60th anniversary of the Dead Sea Scrolls' discovery. They're also being addressed in reports about the "Vision of Gabriel" tablet that have trickled out over the past few months.

That trickle flooded onto the front page of The New York Times on Sunday, in a story that quoted one professor as saying some Christians would "find it shocking" that Jewish scriptures prefigured Christian theology.

But Herschel Shanks, founder of the Biblical Archaeology Society and editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review, said that such a linkage really isn't surprising, let alone shocking.

"The really unique thing about Christian theology is in the life of Jesus - but in the doctrines, when I was a kid, you had little stories about the Sermon on the Mount and the people listening to this saying, 'What is this man saying? I never heard anything like this! This is different,'" Shanks told me. "Today, this view is out. There are Jewish roots to almost everything in Christian experience."

This revised view comes through loud and clear in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which chronicle the spiritual and even the sanitary practices of a Jewish sect that existed around the time of Jesus. It was the similarity to the style of the scrolls that first brought the "Vision of Gabriel" tablet to the attention of archaeologists.

How the tablet came to light
The 1-foot-wide, 3-foot-tall (30-by-90-centimeter) tablet has a checkered past: According to the tale that has been woven around the stone, it was found near Jordan's Dead Sea shore and sold by a Jordanian dealer to Israeli-Swiss collector David Jeselsohn a decade ago. A few years ago, Jeselsohn showed the stone to Ada Yardeni, an expert on ancient Semitic scripts, who consulted with another expert, Binyamin Elitzur.

Yardeni's take on the tablet, published in the Hebrew-language journal Cathedra and in the Biblical Archaeology Review, was that the text was of a style going back to the late first century B.C. or the early first century A.D. - right around the time when Jesus would be growing up.

The 87-line text was written in ink, not inscribed in the stone, and it was laid out just the way one would expect on a scroll, in two nearly even columns. "If it were written on leather (and smaller) I would say it was another Dead Sea Scroll fragment - but it isn't," Yardeni wrote.

The text appears to be a set of apocalyptic pronouncements from a personage named Gabriel - hence the name given to the text, "The Vision of Gabriel" or "Gabriel's Revelations." Biblical Archaeology Review has put the Hebrew text as well as an English translation online.

As you'll see by reading the text, there are so many gaps that it's hard to make out exactly what is being said - but even those fragments were intriguing to Israel Knohl, a Biblical scholar at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Back in the year 2000, Knohl had written a book titled "The Messiah Before Jesus," contending that there was plenty of Jewish precedent for the Christian messianic story. When Knohl read the Cathedra article and looked into the tablet further, he saw new evidence for his thesis:

He reconstructed one phrase to read, "In three days, you shall live" - which would be an eerie parallel to the Christian account of Jesus' resurrection on the third day of his entombment.


He deduced that the phrase was addressed by Gabriel to a "prince of princes" who was slain by an evil king.


Based on his previous research, Knohl even suggested that the text referred to a Jewish rebel leader named Simon, who was killed by Herod's army in 4 B.C.
Knohl laid out his case for interpreting Gabriel's vision last year in an essay for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz and wrote up a more scholarly analysis for April's issue of The Journal of Religion (which you can read by following the links from this Web page). He's also due to discuss the tablet this week during the Dead Sea Scrolls conference.

The resurrection-in-three-days angle was the attention-getter for Sunday's Times report. But many steps in the scientific analysis of the tablet still have to be verified, starting with the origins of the stone and the inked text.

Faith-based archaeology?
"This story has the big caveat of 'where did it come from?'" Mark Rose, online editor for Archaeology magazine, told me. "Someone knows where it came from, someone found it, someone sold it."

The field of biblical archaeology has had its share of controversies over artifacts that may or may not be genuine - most notably the ossuary of James and the "lost tomb of Jesus." Rose said the tablet would have to face the same kind of scrutiny - and could well end up in an archaeological limbo, neither verified nor debunked.

"You want to look at these stories as having to do with faith? Well, there's a lot of faith involved," he said.

Shanks, who was caught up in the earlier debate over the ossuary (a.k.a. the "Jesus box"), has faith that the tablet ultimately will prove genuine. Some of the most exacting judges of antiquities have been taking a close look at the artifact - and the tablet appears to be passing the tests so far.

"I don't think that you'll find any competent scholar who will call it a forgery," Shanks said.

What does it all mean?
Even assuming that the stone tablet (and the ink writing) are accepted as dating back to the first century B.C., scholars will likely struggle over how the scriptural fragments are pieced together. Perhaps the best way to firm up Knohl's textual interpretation is to find parallel texts elsewhere, as others have done with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Then there's the question of what effect the "Vision of Gabriel" might have on Jewish and Christian belief.

During the troubled times into which Jesus was born, Jews yearned for the rise of a messiah who would emerge as a powerful military leader and throw out the Roman-backed regime.

"You have in Christian theology a very different kind of messiah, a messiah who's going to shed blood and atone for your sins," Shanks observed. "Where the hell did this come from, baby? Are there elements of this in Jewish messianism?"

The Dead Sea Scrolls have already shown that the idea of a suffering messiah was part of the cultural milieu back then. If the tablet's text and its three-day messianic interpretation are verified, it could shrink the theological gap between pre-Christian Judaism and early Christianity even further. But that shouldn't come as a shock, Rose said.

"Is this going to redefine the relationship between Judaism and Christianity? I don't think so," he said.

Believers might say the "Vision of Gabriel" is yet another scriptural foreshadowing of Jesus' actual death and resurrection - while skeptics might say the text provides more evidence that the gospels fit into a tradition of untrue messianic tales.

What do you think? Will the "Vision of Gabriel" become a religious bombshell? Will it fizzle out? Or will it turn out to be just one more interesting twist in the saga of scriptural scholarship? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.

Update for 10 p.m. ET: For what it's worth, in today's AFP report on the tablet, Knohl is quoted as saying the text could "overturn the vision we have of the historic personality of Jesus." I suspect many of the commenters would contest that claim. An unnamed Israel archaeologist, meanwhile, is quoted as saying, "It's very strange that such a text was written in ink on a tablet and was preserved until now. To determine whether it is authentic one would have to know in which condition and exactly where the tablet was discovered, which we do not."
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-08-2008, 11:00 AM
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Here is a nice continuation piece.

Israel Knohl, a Biblical scholar at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...?itemNo=850657

The first mention of the "slain Messiah" called Mashiah ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Joseph) is in the Talmud (Sukkah 52a). In my book "The Messiah Before Jesus" (University of California Press, 2000), I argue that the story of this slain messiah is based on historical fact. I believe it is connected to the Jewish revolt in the Land of Israel following the death of King Herod in 4 B.C.E. This Jewish insurrection was brutally suppressed by the armies of Herod and the Roman emperor Augustus, and the messianic leaders of the revolt were killed. These events set the slain Messiah Son of Joseph tradition into motion and paved the way for the emergence of the concept of "catastrophic messianism." Interpretations of biblical text helped to shape the belief that the death of the messiah was a necessary and indivisible component of salvation. My conclusion, based on apocalyptic writings dating to this period, was that certain groups believed the messiah would die, be resurrected in three days, and ascend to heaven (see "The Messiah Before Jesus," 27-42).

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-11-2008, 10:19 AM
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If Knohl is correct, this is about Simon the Messiah, not any Jesus/Yeshua and not in a Joshua motif (Daniel was a Joshua motif, for instance).

The Acts of Peter and Paul have a story about Simon Magus rising from the dead after three days.

Simon as a name is centrally important to most of the Gospel of Mark and Luke. In gJohn, Simon is the one who Jesus asks three times if he loves him.

Simon is a central figure in Gnosticism, and some people have theorized that orthodoxy absorbed some of this iconography while relegating the gnostic hero "Simon the lightbearer" (simon magus) to the role of living antichrist in Acts of ther Apostles. The false prophet.

So Denny, this could be the beginning of several finds of archeological evidence which proves to people that Jesus was an interloper, Simon was the real christ, and before long millions will flock to this new "unified theory" in world religion, chastising Jesus followers and mocking them. A new pope of simon may arise and bring great wonders to the world for seven years in order to impress his flock.

Then they simonize everyone with a special mark. And bread gets more expensive than gasoline. And you know what happens next
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-11-2008, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Casper
If Knohl is correct, this is about Simon the Messiah, not any Jesus/Yeshua and not in a Joshua motif (Daniel was a Joshua motif, for instance).

The Acts of Peter and Paul have a story about Simon Magus rising from the dead after three days.

Simon as a name is centrally important to most of the Gospel of Mark and Luke. In gJohn, Simon is the one who Jesus asks three times if he loves him.

Simon is a central figure in Gnosticism, and some people have theorized that orthodoxy absorbed some of this iconography while relegating the gnostic hero "Simon the lightbearer" (simon magus) to the role of living antichrist in Acts of ther Apostles. The false prophet.

So Denny, this could be the beginning of several finds of archeological evidence which proves to people that Jesus was an interloper, Simon was the real christ, and before long millions will flock to this new "unified theory" in world religion, chastising Jesus followers and mocking them. A new pope of simon may arise and bring great wonders to the world for seven years in order to impress his flock.

Then they simonize everyone with a special mark. And bread gets more expensive than gasoline. And you know what happens next
And I didn't have to say a DAMNED thing!!!!!
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-11-2008, 11:50 AM
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I thought you'd enjoy it.

Scholarly consensus seems to be split on Knohl's interpretation of a "prince" with a "messiah". It could be he is right, or not. The rest is a stretch if he is, and dead if he isn't.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-11-2008, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Casper
A new pope of simon may arise and bring great wonders to the world for seven years in order to impress his flock.

Then they simonize everyone with a special mark. And bread gets more expensive than gasoline. And you know what happens next
I always suspected that this guy was the anti-christ - now we have proof !

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-13-2008, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeb
I always suspected that this guy was the anti-christ - now we have proof !

The debil!
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