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post #1 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Do you like God?

Whatever your god may be? Seems that if you really got through the whole nitty gritty god thing and actually wanted to get to the know the entity, he wouldn't be the type of whatever you'd actually respect or like or want to hang out with. In fact, he sounds mostly like an insecure mean little kid. Would any of you worship the little brat at Wal Mart that desperatly needs to be cracked upside his head with an aluminum baseball bat? Why worship god just because he is god? Even if there is one, does that make him worthy of respect or worship? Just because someone has power doesn't mean you need to respect or fear them. Fear has got to be the most boring human emotion, and responsible for so much mucking about that it's hard to understand why so many people buy into it. So many people on this planet just polishing the brass on the Titanic.
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post #2 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 10:24 AM
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Actually, God is exactly the type of person I would want Him to be. Unconditional love, undeserved salvation, tends to my daily needs, loved me before I loved Him, gives me free will, allows me to have a piece of mind- knowing what my future holds, judges fairly, comforts, forgives... what more could I ask for?

People like Muslims fear God. They make it so that they're not worthy to even be in His presence. With Christians, it's more of a father-to-child relationship. God and I have a personal relationship that matches no other. That is the way it should be. No one shares the same beliefs I have and that is perfectly alright. If it was all the same, it wouldn't mean as much.
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post #3 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 10:25 AM
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All are supposed to fear, love and trust God. Not because He makes you. He gave you free will to make the decision on your own.
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post #4 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:06 AM
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I think your God is what you make him. I love God and thank him every day for some little insignificant something that makes me smile.............even if it is just the fact that I am here to see some of the beautiful and entertaining stuff I see on a daily basis.
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post #5 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:18 AM
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Wow, you have a really fucked up sense of what it means to love and appreciate God. No wonder you hate Him.
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post #6 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Wow, you have a really fucked up sense of what it means to love and appreciate God. No wonder you hate Him.
Yeah, no shit. Eric, think about all the good shit you see every day. It is easy to focus on the bad because is is everywhere, but everything was created by something and you should give thanks and credit to that something.

Look at your wife and then thank god she took a chance on your silly ass.
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post #7 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:26 AM
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Revisiting the thread, I realize I hadn't answered the question. Yes, I do like God. I love Him and appreciate the great things he has provided for me, including a bunch of great friends like you idiots.
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post #8 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Actually, God is exactly the type of person I would want Him to be. Unconditional love, undeserved salvation, tends to my daily needs, loved me before I loved Him, gives me free will, allows me to have a piece of mind- knowing what my future holds, judges fairly, comforts, forgives... what more could I ask for?

People like Muslims fear God. They make it so that they're not worthy to even be in His presence. With Christians, it's more of a father-to-child relationship. God and I have a personal relationship that matches no other. That is the way it should be. No one shares the same beliefs I have and that is perfectly alright. If it was all the same, it wouldn't mean as much.


I don't see the unconditional love thing, traditionally speaking. If god loved you no matter what, why would he send you to hell for something as simple as not believing in him? It's like god has a god complex. Is a diety that is so insecure with itself really worth my worship?



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Originally Posted by Jester
I think your God is what you make him. I love God and thank him every day for some little insignificant something that makes me smile.............even if it is just the fact that I am here to see some of the beautiful and entertaining stuff I see on a daily basis.
I don't believe in god, I'm just looking for some perspective from people who do. Sometimes I get confused about why people would believe in god, and even more confused about why people would worship him even if he did exsist and create all of creation. It's been that kind of morning for whatever reason. Maybe it's the muscle relaxers for my back.


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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Wow, you have a really fucked up sense of what it means to love and appreciate God. No wonder you hate Him.

I don't hate god, unless not believing in something is hating it. I do hate organized religion, christianity in particular. If I lived in the middle east I'm sure I'd have ire towards them as well, but it really just comes down to the environment you're surrounded with on a daily basis.




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Originally Posted by Jester
Yeah, no shit. Eric, think about all the good shit you see every day. It is easy to focus on the bad because is is everywhere, but everything was created by something and you should give thanks and credit to that something.

Look at your wife and then thank god she took a chance on your silly ass.

Why should I give thanks or credit? I didn't ask to be here. My parents got horny on a cold winter night back in 1976 and here I am. Lucky me.


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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Revisiting the thread, I realize I hadn't answered the question. Yes, I do like God. I love Him and appreciate the great things he has provided for me, including a bunch of great friends like you idiots.
I love you too, man.
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post #9 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by talisman
I don't hate god, unless not believing in something is hating it.
Sure you do. You started this thread so everyone would know.
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post #10 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Sure you do. You started this thread so everyone would know.


Nah, all my animosity is directed at the human species. I'm misanthropic, but don't have the energy to go around hating things that I don't think exsist. If I was going to do that I'd have to start drinking energy drinks with words like EXTREME on the label, and that would completly subvert my punk rock anti corporate fuck the advertising slogans philosophy.
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post #11 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 12:24 PM
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Fair enough.

I think the animosity comes from you believing that we came from "something" but don't think Christianity or any other "religion" describes it as you would. So you chastise believers. Plus - you're self-admitted anti-establishment! And boy, is Christianity establishment.

I may be way off the mark here. You can point fingers at me, I can point back. lol
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post #12 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Fair enough.

I think the animosity comes from you believing that we came from "something" but don't think Christianity or any other "religion" describes it as you would. So you chastise believers. Plus - you're self-admitted anti-establishment! And boy, is Christianity establishment.

I may be way off the mark here. You can point fingers at me, I can point back. lol


I really don't have any idea. I WOULD love to know, honestly. Who wouldn't? But I think beyond life there is no more for us than there is for ants. Just an eternal void of nothing where we will never be able to realize that everything we ever did is in vain. I'm okay with that.
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post #13 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 12:36 PM
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The Devil seems to be more of a good time.



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post #14 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
I really don't have any idea. I WOULD love to know, honestly. Who wouldn't? But I think beyond life there is no more for us than there is for ants. Just an eternal void of nothing where we will never be able to realize that everything we ever did is in vain. I'm okay with that.
You really think our existence here is that insignificant?
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post #15 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
You really think our existence here is that insignificant?

Yes. It's the nature of the human mind to keep the body going 24/7. For some, it's hard to believe that after their time here that they will no longer exist. Therefor a heavenly existance is easily believed for some.

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post #16 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 03:52 PM
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So your belief is that you experience cognizance, joy, sadness, hope, disappointment, self consciousness, and empathy simply due to an extensive list of very precise chemical reactions that have taken place over several million years?

You find yourself on the only place in all of existence that we are aware of that can support those chemical reactions, in a temperature range that allows those reactions to take place, with all the external mechanisms required to maintain these complicated functions for not a few brief seconds - but for a hundred years or more.

And this is all incidental? We have no purpose?
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post #17 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
So your belief is that you experience cognizance, joy, sadness, hope, disappointment, self consciousness, and empathy simply due to an extensive list of very precise chemical reactions that have taken place over several million years?

You find yourself on the only place in all of existence that we are aware of that can support those chemical reactions, in a temperature range that allows those reactions to take place, with all the external mechanisms required to maintain these complicated functions for not a few brief seconds - but for a hundred years or more.

And this is all incidental? We have no purpose?


Just because the vast gulf of space hasn't shown us evidence of life beyond this planet doesn't mean we are the only beings out there. The sheer vastness and inevitable chaos that we could never comprehend pretty much precludes it. We've made it to the moon. In the cosmic scheme of things that is like walking to your mailbox. Yes, I believe that our lives are 100% meaningless. It doesn't mean I like it, but it also doesn't mean it rings any less true. All this will pass. Is there anything really that bad or horrifying about nothingness?
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post #18 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 04:23 PM
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The laws of physics are well-defined, and the fact that there is a place(s) that is able to take advantage of those mathematical rules to create and sustain conscious life is a miracle.

It's a GOD-GIVEN miracle that you and I exist and are having this conversation.

You don't have to believe that for it to be true.


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Is there anything really that bad or horrifying about nothingness?
Nope. But if there was really "nothing" about the nothingness you're talking about, then we wouldn't be here in the first place.
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post #19 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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The laws of physics are well-defined, and the fact that there is a place(s) that is able to take advantage of those mathematical rules to create and sustain conscious life is a miracle.

It's a GOD-GIVEN miracle that you and I exist and are having this conversation.

You don't have to believe that for it to be true.



Danny, you are one of the smartest people I know. That is a big compliment coming from me, because I think most people are fucking idiots; as I'm sure you can tell. Why does it have to be about magic and smoke and mirrors? The universe is SO big, with utterly limitless possibilities for variation. The fact that we know no other species beyond our own planet actually reduces your arguement, because we have no idea that all the things it takes for the earth to sustain us even matters to lifeforms on other plains. The possibility of silicone based lifeforms is only one of billions of possible variations that would majorly deviate from our own mode of life.
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post #20 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 04:35 PM
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I thought when I said "the only place in all of existence that we are aware of" and "there is a place(s) that is able to take advantage of those mathematical rules" that it is clear I don't think we're the only forms of life that have been created in the universe. Only that we're the only ones we're aware of.

But when I say "have been created" I mean I believe that there is a God that created us. God has a message for us, and a purpose.



"There is no smoke and mirrors, only a language which we are just beginning to learn to read."

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post #21 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
I thought when I said "the only place in all of existence that we are aware of" and "there is a place(s) that is able to take advantage of those mathematical rules" that it is clear I don't think we're the only forms of life that have been created in the universe. Only that we're the only ones we're aware of.

But when I say "have been created" I mean I believe that there is a God that created us.



"There is no smoke and mirrors, only a language which we are just beginning to learn to read."

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post #22 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Whatever your god may be? Seems that if you really got through the whole nitty gritty god thing and actually wanted to get to the know the entity, he wouldn't be the type of whatever you'd actually respect or like or want to hang out with. In fact, he sounds mostly like an insecure mean little kid. Would any of you worship the little brat at Wal Mart that desperatly needs to be cracked upside his head with an aluminum baseball bat? Why worship god just because he is god? Even if there is one, does that make him worthy of respect or worship? Just because someone has power doesn't mean you need to respect or fear them. Fear has got to be the most boring human emotion, and responsible for so much mucking about that it's hard to understand why so many people buy into it. So many people on this planet just polishing the brass on the Titanic.
you sound better damn insecure dude.
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post #23 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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you sound better damn insecure dude.



I wha?
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post #24 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
The laws of physics are well-defined, and the fact that there is a place(s) that is able to take advantage of those mathematical rules to create and sustain conscious life is a miracle.
Miracle = mathematical phenomenon?

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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
It's a GOD-GIVEN miracle that you and I exist and are having this conversation.
Says you! A 'miracle' it may be, but who are you to say it was a God given one?
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You don't have to believe that for it to be true.
And even though you believe it to be, it might not be true.

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post #25 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 07:48 PM
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I simply don't understand why God has to be a tangible being? That's some of the most selfish nonsense i've ever heard.
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post #26 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by talisman
I don't see the unconditional love thing, traditionally speaking. If god loved you no matter what, why would he send you to hell for something as simple as not believing in him? It's like god has a god complex. Is a diety that is so insecure with itself really worth my worship?
It's our decision whether or not to go to hell. We make that decision when we either accept or reject Him. He gave us free will and made the deal. All we have to do is follow it. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not an insecurity issue. It's just the one rule He gave upon entering Heaven. Besides, why would He have anyone there who rejects Him?

I'll ask you since I know you're an athiest. Do you want to go to Heaven? I know you don't think there is one, but wouldn't you like to be there in an afterlife?
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post #27 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
It's our decision whether or not to go to hell. We make that decision when we either accept or reject Him. He gave us free will and made the deal. All we have to do is follow it. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not an insecurity issue. It's just the one rule He gave upon entering Heaven. Besides, why would He have anyone there who rejects Him?

I'll ask you since I know you're an athiest. Do you want to go to Heaven? I know you don't think there is one, but wouldn't you like to be there in an afterlife?

Do you have any proof of heaven or hell exist?

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post #28 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 11:07 PM
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Yes I like God, I love God. Sometimes it is difficult to have affections when you cannot see Him though. I find great comfort in His Word and in the beauty of His creation. He alone is worthy of all honor and glory and praise for now and forevermore!
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post #29 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 01:55 AM
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Do you have any proof of heaven or hell exist?
His Word is the only "proof" I need.
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post #30 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 08:32 AM
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I sometimes wonder why god would kill a family of 5 coming home from church in Plano.


Your lord works in mysterious ways.
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post #31 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 08:45 AM
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http://www.juststopandthink.com/movieextras_movielg.php

Don't know most of you and I am not trying to push this on anyone. But for those who are questioning our existance and would like it laid out in a pretty easy to understand way, this video was made by the church I used to attend when I lived in California. The pastor, Francis Chan, has a pretty good explanation that should hopefully help someone. It is about a 15 minute video.

Adam
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post #32 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:02 AM
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I sometimes wonder why god would kill a family of 5 coming home from church in Plano.


Your lord works in mysterious ways.
Actually, it was a machine designed by human beings and being used by a human being that killed a family of five coming home from church in Plano.
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post #33 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:04 AM
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Actually, it was a machine designed by human beings and being used by a human being that killed a family of five coming home from church in Plano.
But didn't God push it with His large, invisible hand?
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post #34 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:10 AM
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Well, how about those of us that live a morally good life without holding to your beliefs?

I have a "partition" set to the side in my brain for my afterlife. It will work just like a dream, as I figure this is really what will go down in death.
You're damned if you reject Jesus.
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post #35 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:11 AM
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Actually, it was a machine designed by human beings and being used by a human being that killed a family of five coming home from church in Plano.
The driver of the other vehicle that caused the accident lived. That vehicle was also made by human beings. People have been in car accidents and lived. Obviously. God chose that family of 5 to die.... or they would have lived. I wonder if the machines that kept that survivor alive were made by human beings... or did god keep him alive?
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post #36 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:12 AM
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The driver of the other vehicle that caused the accident lived. That vehicle was also made by human beings. People have been in car accidents and lived. Obviously. God chose that family of 5 to die.... or they would have lived. I wonder if the machines that kept that survivor alive were made by human beings... or did god keep him alive?
It's all about free will. I know you've read what I posted in the past.
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post #37 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:19 AM
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Well, how about those of us that live a morally good life without holding to your beliefs?

I have a "partition" set to the side in my brain for my afterlife. It will work just like a dream, as I figure this is really what will go down in death.

Being moral does not make you Holy, because you inherited your curse from your father, just as we all have. It is impossible for God and unholiness to coexist, therefore it had to be taken away, or wiped clean. This is what acceptance of Christ does. There will be lots of good, moral people in hell. Not because we have a unjust God, but because we, as a people, make a conscious choice to reject atonement through the saving power of an eternal perfect sacrifice. When we do this, we seal our own fate and are left (by our OWN choice mind you) to live how we please. Unsaved souls have no chance, simply because God cannot exist with it.

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post #38 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:51 AM
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I've been damned my whole life. What else is new? In the face of adversity, I just keep chugging doing right. Some may not believe that I'm as nice a guy as I am, due to my hard nature and realistic views on life, but I'm alright with who I am.




Inherited from my father? That's almost as ludicrous as the notion that good, moral people were placed in hell by a just god. That really makes sense to you? FWIW, my dad believes, and I inherited a strong work ethic and awesome skills in life.

I guess we'll just see how it pans out. As I've said before, If someone significant greets me at the pearly gates, then I'll repent, take arms, and fight off evil for the rest of ya'll to be recieved into heaven safely. Otherwise, I guess I'll just give satan as much hell as I can.

You are missing my point about inheriting sin nature. It is passed on no matter who you are.

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post #39 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 10:26 AM
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I'm subscribing because I find this thread very interesting. I do not believe in "God" per se and I dislike organized religion... but I do not argue the fact that there may be something bigger and better out there other than "us"... I'm just not convinced it's "God" - whatever your definition of that may be.

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post #40 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 10:44 AM
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I'm subscribing because I find this thread very interesting. I do not believe in "God" per se and I dislike organized religion... but I do not argue the fact that there may be something bigger and better out there other than "us"... I'm just not convinced it's "God" - whatever your definition of that may be.
There is a God and He is a man. If you don't believe me, then strip down naked and stand in front of a mirror.
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post #41 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 11:06 AM
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I'm subscribing because I find this thread very interesting. I do not believe in "God" per se and I dislike organized religion... but I do not argue the fact that there may be something bigger and better out there other than "us"... I'm just not convinced it's "God" - whatever your definition of that may be.
What would you say when arguing the point that there is something ' bigger and better' than us?

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post #42 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 01:46 PM
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Are you insinuating that we are naturally sinners? So evil just lives within us and it is our divine warden that teaches us otherwise?

Sorry man, but in my nature ALL living things survive with instincts and sins are instilled into us by our environment.
So little toddlers lie, steal, dishonor parents, and throw tantrums because they learned it?
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post #43 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffrazr
Yes, they watched the parents do the same thing to their spouse or the kids themselves. I have witnessed this very thing countless times. I have also witnessed a husband and wife that is currently raising 7 kids that all have the most perfect manners I have ever seen. There secret was consistency, no yelling, and honesty no matter how bad their fellings get hurt. Now they will only have to worry about outside influences such as school and whatnot.
I disagree. Kids do those things on their own without having to learn it.
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post #44 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 02:59 PM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffrazr
Yes, they watched the parents do the same thing to their spouse or the kids themselves. I have witnessed this very thing countless times. I have also witnessed a husband and wife that is currently raising 7 kids that all have the most perfect manners I have ever seen. There secret was consistency, no yelling, and honesty no matter how bad their fellings get hurt. Now they will only have to worry about outside influences such as school and whatnot.

Kids are good by corrections and loving, not because they are naturally prone to do good things and be polite and upstanding....that is funny.

Crossfit.com <--- no wimps allowed
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post #45 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
v2004 rebooted.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
It's our decision whether or not to go to hell. We make that decision when we either accept or reject Him. He gave us free will and made the deal. All we have to do is follow it. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not an insecurity issue. It's just the one rule He gave upon entering Heaven. Besides, why would He have anyone there who rejects Him?

I'll ask you since I know you're an athiest. Do you want to go to Heaven? I know you don't think there is one, but wouldn't you like to be there in an afterlife?

"He" hasn't given me any reason to believe in him. Just because? I mean, how can anyone take that seriously? I think I'm a halfway decent person, no Mother Teresa and sure I'm an asshole, but I try to do the right things in life. I don't cheat on ym wife or taxes, I donate money to worthwhile causes, and try to be a good boss to work for. Why invent some half assed bullshit reason as a way to get into heaven? Wouldn't living a good life be enough?

Honestly, I'm not sure that I would like the traditional heaven much if I was to believe in it. Between the 2 choices, hell seems like it would more likely exsist to me than heaven. But I realize that isn't your question. I'm just free thinking with this whole thread, and I've never got much into my actual beliefs on here before, aside from being an athiest, so why the hell not since I am now. Tranquillity would be nice, like a a double dose of hydrocodone, but what would you be taking away from it all? In heaven, I mean, what would be the point?

Hanging out with your family, talking all about enlightenment? What else would you talk about, you'd already know everything. Most people think you become all knowing once you're in heaven, so you wouldn't be debating anything with anyone, or having even the slightest disagreements. I can't see the human animal 100% absolutely not finding something to disagree with another about, regardless of enlightenment. If there isn't anything to disagree about, what is there to talk about, or exsist about? I know our time on the earth is unimportant, but life after death seems like an overkill of unimportance. Hell actually seems like a more interesting place, though unless you were in a leadership position down there I doubt it would be fuzzy kitten type entertainment, again, traditionally speaking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
You are missing my point about inheriting sin nature. It is passed on no matter who you are.

^^^ and listening to crap like that is why I don't usually talk about my belief systems on here, or at all for the last ten years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadintx
I'm subscribing because I find this thread very interesting. I do not believe in "God" per se and I dislike organized religion... but I do not argue the fact that there may be something bigger and better out there other than "us"... I'm just not convinced it's "God" - whatever your definition of that may be.
There very well might be, but I don't think it has any particular interest in us, even if it created us; other than watching us bounce off each other like a gigantic planet sized pinball machine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang
I disagree. Kids do those things on their own without having to learn it.

Are kids born homosexuals or do they learn it? Gotcha!


I can already feel this thread sliding downward. Ah well, it was interesting while it lasted. I'm not sure why I've been thinking about this more than normal lately.
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post #46 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Are kids born homosexuals or do they learn it? Gotcha!
Born with those tendencies
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post #47 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
His Word is the only "proof" I need.
Have you heard it for yourself or have you only seen it in a book?

Shrimp'n ain't easy....
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post #48 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD
Have you heard it for yourself or have you only seen it in a book?
It's hard to explain to someone who needs physical proof. Do you think I was a believer all my life? The first several times I read the Bible, I was a sceptic. I think I finally found Him around 22 or 23. I thought I did earlier, but didn't. There were even times I knew I was a believer, but still questioned it in the back of my mind. I left not only the church, but the faith for about 5 or 6 years and then I was overwhelmed with confidence in Him almost overnight, not even looking for Him. There is now not a single doubt in my mind as to who I need to look to for forgiveness, thanks and praise. I wish I could break it down into some sort of physical evidence, that would make this job so much easier for all of us, trust me. But this is all I have for you.
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post #49 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
It's hard to explain to someone who needs physical proof. Do you think I was a believer all my life? The first several times I read the Bible, I was a sceptic. I think I finally found Him around 22 or 23. I thought I did earlier, but didn't. There were even times I knew I was a believer, but still questioned it in the back of my mind. I left not only the church, but the faith for about 5 or 6 years and then I was overwhelmed with confidence in Him almost overnight, not even looking for Him. There is now not a single doubt in my mind as to who I need to look to for forgiveness, thanks and praise. I wish I could break it down into some sort of physical evidence, that would make this job so much easier for all of us, trust me. But this is all I have for you.
I've always thought that for man to believe that we just "appeared", or to think there is no greater power, is totally narcissistic.
Evolution has an awful lot of holes in it, and has been the subject of tons of scrutiny.
For people that don't "believe", but say the bible tells a "story", I recommend they read the gospel of John. It will take about 90 minutes, and it's a little redundant, but it's because of the message that Jesus is trying to get them all to understand.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #50 of 270 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 05:56 AM
lol, this place sucks now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
I've always thought that for man to believe that we just "appeared", or to think there is no greater power, is totally narcissistic.
Evolution has an awful lot of holes in it, and has been the subject of tons of scrutiny.
For people that don't "believe", but say the bible tells a "story", I recommend they read the gospel of John. It will take about 90 minutes, and it's a little redundant, but it's because of the message that Jesus is trying to get them all to understand.
The bible isn't exactly iron clad.
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