Julian Barbour: Relativity and NO Time - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,249
Julian Barbour: Relativity and NO Time

"Ernst Mach remarked “It is utterly beyond our power to measure the changes of things by time. Quite the contrary, time is an abstraction at which we arrive through the changes of things.” Thus, time as such does not exist but only change. Much of my research has been devoted to the implications of this insight. I have shown how, alongside the relativity of motion, the notion of time as change can be built into the foundations of dynamics. In fact, this idea is contained in a hidden form within general relativity. Its potential consequences for the yet to be found quantum mechanics of the universe are profound. The quantum universe is likely to be static. Motion and the apparent passage of time may be nothing but very well founded illusions."

http://www.platonia.com/index.html
http://www.platonia.com/ideas.html

Last edited by FSON; 03-20-2008 at 08:55 AM.
FSON is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 08:08 AM
Mexican Crew
 
paul_376's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Ernst Mach remarked “It is utterly beyond our power to measure the changes of things by time. Quite the contrary, time is an abstraction at which we arrive through the changes of things.” Thus, time as such does not exist but only change. Much of my research has been devoted to the implications of this insight. I have shown how, alongside the relativity of motion, the notion of time as change can be built into the foundations of dynamics. In fact, this idea is contained in a hidden form within general relativity. Its potential consequences for the yet to be found quantum mechanics of the universe are profound. The quantum universe is likely to be static. Motion and the apparent passage of time may be nothing but very well founded illusions.

http://www.platonia.com/index.html
http://www.platonia.com/ideas.html
ingles por favor

Quote:
Check your self bro , you're not that cool.

paul_376 is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 09:22 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_376
ingles por favor
Check the second link.
Casper is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 03:34 PM
He's no good to me dead.
 
Bobba Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fett's vette
Posts: 716
So would that mean that we are slowing down??
Bobba Fett is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 03:50 PM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
So would that mean that we are slowing down??
Speed according to his theory of relative gravity is an illusion created by space and mass. So nothing really moves, it just changes places. It seems counterintuitive until you examine the ways you measure the speed of a moving object using time. It is just an artificial reference point to help us average out change.

Well screw that, I can't get it to link. I can't get it to play now either.

Last edited by Casper; 03-20-2008 at 04:01 PM.
Casper is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 06:48 PM
Secular Dogooderist
 
Zarathustra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Hive
Posts: 3,031
I kind of like this. He's not necessarily saying that the clocks we see will cease to tick. What I think he's trying to say is that clocks are completely pointless and only show us illusory measurements of existence. This is coming from looking at all things that exist in a very wide panoramic view of all existence. Time is a very arbitrary measure of things as we understand them, I think.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
Zarathustra is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 06:55 PM
Secular Dogooderist
 
Zarathustra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Hive
Posts: 3,031
Also, there are many other superfluities to which man is subject to, collectively. These paradigms shroud the truth and generally classify the many things that exist into something that we are able to understand without much difficulty or thinking. In this involuntary but necessary simplification of existence, we lose the true meaning of life and things in general in the process. The metaphysical theories that have been put in place hitherto are nothing but more of that same thing. These conceptions of reality were good enough for the men that came before us, but as we progress into the future, and emerge out of the motor age, there must be a series of awakenings--and this is only another one of those illusions man has placed upon himself through the pages of history.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
Zarathustra is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 11:40 PM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Or it could be that in the effort to create a grand unification theory for physics, one shortcut to make the math work is to cancel out time from the equation.

You can arrive at a mathematical solution through a series of mathematical impossibilities.

It is not a new idea in and of itself, it goes back nearly 2500 years to Zeno and his time paradoxes.

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.vi...greek_math.htm
Casper is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 04:02 AM
Factory Issue
 
Yale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 12,295
A unified theory is absurd and unnecessary. The idea that we could have all of the pieces of the puzzle put together in a few thousand years is just vain.

Give me a dollar.
Yale is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Also, there are many other superfluities to which man is subject to, collectively. These paradigms shroud the truth and generally classify the many things that exist into something that we are able to understand without much difficulty or thinking. In this involuntary but necessary simplification of existence, we lose the true meaning of life and things in general in the process. The metaphysical theories that have been put in place hitherto are nothing but more of that same thing. These conceptions of reality were good enough for the men that came before us, but as we progress into the future, and emerge out of the motor age, there must be a series of awakenings--and this is only another one of those illusions man has placed upon himself through the pages of history.
The truth may be that there is nothing in the physical system of this universe. Grabbing onto time as a foundation of this system is but an anchor for your speeding ship or could it be water through your fingers. Try grabbing it, it's there, but not really.
There-Not There, There-Not There, There-Not There, There-Not There...

Mother Nature loves to hide. Why does she hide? What is she hiding from? If we stop looking for her, what would happen to us and Mother Nature?
FSON is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 12:18 PM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
... Grabbing onto time as a foundation of this system is but an anchor for your speeding ship or could it be water through your fingers. Try grabbing it, it's there, but not really.
"You cannot step into the same stream twice"
-Plato (paraphrased from Heraclitus)

Last edited by Casper; 03-21-2008 at 12:33 PM.
Casper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome