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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Just a thought

Would you count seeing God or the supernatural in a "trip" (LSD, Acid for those who don't know what a trip is) as an experience with your faith?
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 07:35 AM
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If a LSD "trip" breaks down your innate filtering out of things you perceive and leaves your senses wide open, there is no reason to automatically discount what you have seen as imaginary. Human logical thought processes will tend to relegate such experiences to being nothing more than hallucinations however.

You will not see God Himself either on a "trip" or in an unaltered state though, for Scripture is very plain in explaining that no man can see God and live. Can you see facets of the supernatural? Very possibly.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 01-21-2008 at 09:05 AM.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 07:56 AM
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
Would you count seeing God or the supernatural in a "trip" (LSD, Acid for those who don't know what a trip is) as an experience with your faith?

What it does is open your senses to a point that I would not discount God to use it to try and save someone....if he can use a donkey to speak, why not a drug. Only thing is that it also allows the doors to be opened to demonic influence also.

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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
Would you count seeing God or the supernatural in a "trip" (LSD, Acid for those who don't know what a trip is) as an experience with your faith?
Have you ever had such a "trip"? If so, please describe your experience.

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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
What it does is open your senses to a point that I would not discount God to use it to try and save someone....if he can use a donkey to speak, why not a drug. Only thing is that it also allows the doors to be opened to demonic influence also.
Demonic influences could very possibly masquerade as being harmless entities; therein lies a potential trap for a vulnerable mind.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Demonic influences could very possibly masquerade as being harmless entities; therein lies a potential trap for a vulnerable mind.

I would go so far as to say that they do all the time...constantly..whole religions are based on "holy visions, secret tablets" etc.... that are purely demonic.

That is why scripture warns against talking to the "dead" and to test any spirit you would come into contact with. BrainC wrote extensively about this in a previous thread.

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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Demonic influences could very possibly masquerade as being harmless entities; therein lies a potential trap for a vulnerable mind.
I knew those Chocolate Chip cookies were from the dark side, but hey, G#d is based on reason alone, right?
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 01:22 PM
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^^^^^
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 01:43 PM
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^^^^^
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with no direction home...
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 01:48 PM
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with no direction home...
a complete unknown.....
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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a complete unknown.....
like a
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-22-2008, 02:15 PM
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-31-2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
Have you ever had such a "trip"? If so, please describe your experience.
Once. Among other things I renamed myself "Chrome" and at the height of my experience, 8-10 hours in, went to Egypt in my bedroom. I watched Top Gun while I was coming on, and that was pretty strange to say the least. Sounds were more vivid, and one song in particular by Square Pusher called "Beep Street" had me absolutely mezmorized. The sounds were so chrystal pure and perfect that I wanted to hear it over and over. Hours passed by in a matter of minutes at times and at other times minutes seemed to go on for days. I saw colors that I have never seen before and I was myself at one point entirely colored like mercury or liquid chrome - thus the new name. Patterns from textiles extended onto the things around them and pictures appeared three dimensional and full of life. Empty walls danced and pulsed with color, at times seeming to be covered with large pinwheels spinning and changing color from blues and reds to reds and greens aswell as other colors for which have no name.

In other words - If you freak out easily, don't do it.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 04:01 PM
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If you can't differentiate between God and a chemically induced hallucination, what does that tell you about God?
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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 04:12 PM
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I have never seen God through a chemically induced hallucination. If God chooses to reveal Himself to someone through a physical manifestation or visions, as He did with the Old Testament prophets, He will do so on His own terms and at the time of His own choosing.
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I have never seen God through a chemically induced hallucination. If God chooses to reveal Himself to someone through a physical manifestation or visions, as He did with the Old Testament prophets, He will do so on His own terms and at the time of His own choosing.
Whhooooosh.


My point being, how can tyou tell the difference?

You can't.
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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 06:05 PM
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Yes, I can
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Whhooooosh.


My point being, how can tyou tell the difference?

You can't.
So are you saying that man has made a drug that allows them to get closer to God if used in a certain way or are you saying that people of faith are "hallucinating" without the drug?
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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Whhooooosh.


My point being, how can tyou tell the difference?

You can't.

You can tell inside..

For instance (bad example). If you are sitting in a bus next to another bus and one of them moves, looking out the window will probably not tell you exactly which one is moving. You have to feel inside which bus is moving. You can hear the engine (or not) and tell if it is your bus or not. You may also feel your wright being shifted.

It is similar in the fact that in a REAL experience....you feel it inside.

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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 08:46 AM
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The only way man can get closer to God is by accepting Him through free will. This is true whether an individual is "called" by God or if he/she takes the initiative and seeks Him. No drug or other external process devised by man will in and of itself accomplish that end.
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
Have you ever had such a "trip"? If so, please describe your experience.
At first, I experienced nothing. The first hour or so my body felt heavy. The next hour I got hyper and a ticked off feeling and it was really hard to relax and watch TV. Then all the sudden time literately stopped. I began seeing shapes on the walls and ceilings. Lights were magnificently bright and I could move them around and rearrange them any way I like. They also had trails following them and they had a profound effect on me. I went outside and everything was moving. Grass grew, stars flickered, and everything had a beat to it. I went driving around and everything was moving to the beat of the music. The music was so loud that I had to yell over it, but in reality it wasn't turned up very loud. I was amazed at the music and I felt everything, including me, was part of the music. When I got back home, I had a hard time separating my own thoughts from what I was hearing. Watching TV was IMPOSSIBLE, everything made me laugh or my mind would drift away. When I tried to focus, the TV literately melted. I turned on some techno and listened to it for awhile. When something played that had alot of base, the stereo would melt and move with the beat then take back shape, all following the beat of music. I felt incredible, like I was 16 and in love again. As I sat there, time started back up and I felt like what I had experienced happened all in minute, even though 8 hours had pasted. When I went to bed, the walls seem to breath as I drifted into sleep.

One strange feeling that I had was when I talked to someone who dropped acid with me, it seemed like we could read each others mind. Our conversations were strange at best, but it was like I could hear his thoughts and he could hear mine.
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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 09:05 AM
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Any kind of hallucynatory drug will help you get close enough to G#d to measure his actuality in standard, international, engineering units.

We must make it our highest goal to develop and set into international agreement the complete standardization of G#d as he is in actuality. This will no doubt make standardization the highest and most beautiful goal of all human beings. With this standard set, a Department of Standardization will be established to go out into the world, agreed by and into standardization, to further standardize all aspects of human life and cull and eliminate the noncompliant from the great light of the standard which is and always has been compliant in the standardization of the standard. We are living in the light of such a glorious day that has brought us to the shore of the great water of standardization illuminated by the light of the glorious standard which has now made us all compliant to achieve world wide standardization within the standards of the standard, in engineering units of course.
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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FSON
Any kind of hallucynatory drug will help you get close enough to G#d to measure his actuality in standard, international, engineering units.

We must make it our highest goal to develop and set into international agreement the complete standardization of G#d as he is in actuality. This will no doubt make standardization the highest and most beautiful goal of all human beings. With this standard set, a Department of Standardization will be established to go out into the world, agreed by and into standardization, to further standardize all aspects of human life and cull and eliminate the noncompliant from the great light of the standard which is and always has been compliant in the standardization of the standard. We are living in the light of such a glorious day that has brought us to the shore of the great water of standardization illuminated by the light of the glorious standard which has now made us all compliant to achieve world wide standardization within the standards of the standard, in engineering units of course.
How many times have you dropped? One too many????
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 01:36 PM
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Non-Compliance is not an option.
Total submittal to the standards here set forth by these self appointed standardizers of the Department of Standardization is the only standard, in engineering units.
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
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So are you saying that man has made a drug that allows them to get closer to God if used in a certain way or are you saying that people of faith are "hallucinating" without the drug?
I'm asking how one would know the difference between a hallucination and a supernatural visitation.
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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I have never seen God through a chemically induced hallucination. If God chooses to reveal Himself to someone through a physical manifestation or visions, as He did with the Old Testament prophets, He will do so on His own terms and at the time of His own choosing.
How many times have you dropped/shroomed?
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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
You can tell inside..

For instance (bad example). If you are sitting in a bus next to another bus and one of them moves, looking out the window will probably not tell you exactly which one is moving. You have to feel inside which bus is moving. You can hear the engine (or not) and tell if it is your bus or not. You may also feel your wright being shifted.

It is similar in the fact that in a REAL experience....you feel it inside.
Well a hallucination by definition involves stimulation of the sensory nodes of the brain, so you may see the bus move, you may feel it move, you may hear it move, yet it could be all a hallucination.

Unless you mean some sort of supernatural sensory perception, and then the question still stands, how can you differentiate between the supernatural and a simple hallucination?
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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 07:54 PM
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Non-Compliance is not an option.
Total submittal to the standards here set forth by these self appointed standardizers of the Department of Standardization is the only standard, in engineering units.
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 08:11 PM
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Non-Compliance is not an option.
Total submittal to the standards here set forth by these self appointed standardizers of the Department of Standardization is the only standard, in engineering units.
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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 08:11 PM
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Non-Compliance is not an option.
Total submittal to the standards here set forth by these self appointed standardizers of the Department of Standardization is the only standard, in engineering units.
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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-21-2008, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestromo
How many times have you dropped/shroomed?
The only thing more boring than someone else's drinking stories are someone's else's drug stories. Does that answer your question?
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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-21-2008, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How many times have you dropped/shroomed?
I think a better testament would be how someone recovered 100% or how God showed them through their LSD abuse.
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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-21-2008, 09:11 AM
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I just got off the phone with God and he told me "Dope is for dopes. Pass it on."
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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
I think a better testament would be how someone recovered 100% or how God showed them through their LSD abuse.

The fact that you just said "LSD Abuse" tells me that you have no idea. I've only done it once and it was amazing, but the last thing you want to do after an amazing trip is trip again.
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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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The fact that you just said "LSD Abuse" tells me that you have no idea. I've only done it once and it was amazing, but the last thing you want to do after an amazing trip is trip again.
No, I agree with you. It just takes one time. But there are others out there that drop every week. The recovery is for life! To this day I haven't been able to drive at night without seeing trails or halos around lights or wake up in the morning with the sun's rays waving at me. Houston looks like one big light fest at night. Flashbacks are horrible. Although my trip was good, I wouldn't wish it for the world again to go through it again.
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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 08:58 AM
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You may have something else affecting you. Like maybe nearsightedness (don't laugh, it happens as you age).
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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You may have something else affecting you. Like maybe nearsightedness (don't laugh, it happens as you age).
I've never thought about that. It probably would be in my interest to seek out an eye doctor for an exam. Thanks for the advise!
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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 09:27 AM
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Does the LSD permanently change your brain's communication process at the molecular level- flashbacks?

I read that Jim Morrison of The Doors fame would eat LSD "pillets" like Chicklettes.
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Does the LSD permanently change your brain's communication process at the molecular level- flashbacks?

I read that Jim Morrison of The Doors fame would eat LSD "pillets" like Chicklettes.
I don't know exactly how to answer such a broad question because I am not a doctor or expert, but I'll answer in terms of my experience, and others are welcomed to chime in their experience and thoughts or medical information.

My flashbacks can occur at any time. For instance, yesterday I was sitting at my computer and the hall light all the sudden got a halo around it. Right now, no halos around it. It seems certain things can set it off also. If I drink too much caffeine, the lights grow halos and trails and I become real anxious. I also noticed that when I was on Zoloft, it seemed to be a daily thing, so I'm guessing that medication has an effect on flashbacks. Sometimes when I listen to music, I get tranced, but no so often anymore and I think that it has more to do with my experience than anything, so I don't really count that as a flashback.

My wife said that I wasn't the same person. I've noticed that I'm quicker to anger and frustration, but thanks to counseling, I'm getting that under much better control. Also, the first mornings after I took LSD, I would hear voices like I was going skitzo. Now I don't hear any voices, but I do dream more vivid than I have ever before. I dream like crazy!

And yea, I bet he did drop them like candy! Party like a rockstar!
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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
I don't know exactly how to answer such a broad question because I am not a doctor or expert, but I'll answer in terms of my experience, and others are welcomed to chime in their experience and thoughts or medical information.

My flashbacks can occur at any time. For instance, yesterday I was sitting at my computer and the hall light all the sudden got a halo around it. Right now, no halos around it. It seems certain things can set it off also. If I drink too much caffeine, the lights grow halos and trails and I become real anxious. I also noticed that when I was on Zoloft, it seemed to be a daily thing, so I'm guessing that medication has an effect on flashbacks. Sometimes when I listen to music, I get tranced, but no so often anymore and I think that it has more to do with my experience than anything, so I don't really count that as a flashback.

My wife said that I wasn't the same person. I've noticed that I'm quicker to anger and frustration, but thanks to counseling, I'm getting that under much better control. Also, the first mornings after I took LSD, I would hear voices like I was going skitzo. Now I don't hear any voices, but I do dream more vivid than I have ever before. I dream like crazy!

And yea, I bet he did drop them like candy! Party like a rockstar!

I would be willing to bet that you have an eye condition or something. "Halos" are pretty common for such things. After I had lasik I saw halos around things for a long time. Especially at night when I would look at street lights etc. The phenomena is called a "starburst". As far as feeling hyper after drinking caffeine......hehe..well.....that kind of happens. On a side note, eye problems can explain a wide range of things from headaches to irritability.

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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
I would be willing to bet that you have an eye condition or something. "Halos" are pretty common for such things. After I had lasik I saw halos around things for a long time. Especially at night when I would look at street lights etc. The phenomena is called a "starburst". As far as feeling hyper after drinking caffeine......hehe..well.....that kind of happens. On a side note, eye problems can explain a wide range of things from headaches to irritability.
You could be right. I not in any way diagnosing myself, as stated before, I am no doctor. I guess I should have been a little more clear that I just call them "flashbacks" even though I haven't been diagnosed with having them. I could be having flashbacks or having eye problems. It probably would be in my best interested to seek professional help at this point.

On another note, I have seen people changed after having a trip, personality wise. I myself don't really see anything different (other than stated in this thread) nor do I have a different outlook on life, but I do know people that have stated that they have a different way of looking at life now that they have done acid and I have noticed personality changes in them.
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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
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I think you can learn ways to open the doors of perception without the use of drugs, and these can be personality changing also (for the better).
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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba Fett
I don't know exactly how to answer such a broad question because I am not a doctor or expert, but I'll answer in terms of my experience, and others are welcomed to chime in their experience and thoughts or medical information.

My flashbacks can occur at any time. For instance, yesterday I was sitting at my computer and the hall light all the sudden got a halo around it. Right now, no halos around it. It seems certain things can set it off also. If I drink too much caffeine, the lights grow halos and trails and I become real anxious. I also noticed that when I was on Zoloft, it seemed to be a daily thing, so I'm guessing that medication has an effect on flashbacks. Sometimes when I listen to music, I get tranced, but no so often anymore and I think that it has more to do with my experience than anything, so I don't really count that as a flashback.

My wife said that I wasn't the same person. I've noticed that I'm quicker to anger and frustration, but thanks to counseling, I'm getting that under much better control. Also, the first mornings after I took LSD, I would hear voices like I was going skitzo. Now I don't hear any voices, but I do dream more vivid than I have ever before. I dream like crazy!

And yea, I bet he did drop them like candy! Party like a rockstar!
You'd be surprised how much more powerful zoloft is than LSD, in terms of receptor agonist-antagonist effects and its half-life.

In a bipolar individual, prozac-class drugs can produce effects within minutes, and those effects are very similar to the effects of other drugs like LSD, MDA, MDMA, Mescaline, any of the alphabet soup drugs.

There are otherwise competent doctors who still insist that any such effect from antidepresseants is placebo effect, in spite of the anecdotal and the clinical evidence. That's the danger of going to a doctor instead of a psychiatrist for psychoactive drugs.

The other benefit of psychiatryists is that they can hand out class IIIs that doctors would be fined for even suggesting
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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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You'd be surprised how much more powerful zoloft is than LSD, in terms of receptor agonist-antagonist effects and its half-life.

In a bipolar individual, prozac-class drugs can produce effects within minutes, and those effects are very similar to the effects of other drugs like LSD, MDA, MDMA, Mescaline, any of the alphabet soup drugs.

There are otherwise competent doctors who still insist that any such effect from antidepresseants is placebo effect, in spite of the anecdotal and the clinical evidence. That's the danger of going to a doctor instead of a psychiatrist for psychoactive drugs.

The other benefit of psychiatryists is that they can hand out class IIIs that doctors would be fined for even suggesting
Wow, I had no idea!

Yea, I went to the doctor for having headaches. They said "Here, take this shit, see you in two months." Well, let me tell you, Zoloft is crap. I would sweat alot, have loose stools, have vivid dreams, and even made me anxious at times. But hey, no headaches. Go figure

I have not seen a psychiatrist yet (key word being YET) but I have considered it.
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post #46 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 12:05 PM
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You know, if you are having headaches and you are experiencing vision anomalies, you might have issues with pressure on the optic nerve.

Before you see a psychiatrist, if you have insurance, you'll need a referral. The other option is major moolah.

Psychiatrists are really mostly prescription writers who specialize in psychoactive drugs, and all the bits and pieces that go along with this. The stereotype of laying on a couch and telling some kook how your mother hated you and your dog molested you are way off the mark. That is more like a therapist or psychologist anyway.

Before you go to get a referral, you'll want a thorough evaluation from a decent GP. And the best way to get one is to start off with a log on your own. Keep a log of what you eat and when, how much sleep you get, note headaches and anything else like auras that signal one is coming, and take your blood pressure and pulse twice to three times a day at regular intervals. Do this for 30 days if you can.

This will do two things; it helps a decent doctor see any patterns, and it also shows them that you are serious about your condition. You'd be surprised how something like this can change a doctor's attitude from "here, take this and get lost" to "okay, I think we need to do some screening and some other things before we change".

You may not even need to see a psych at all, you may go to a migraine specialist or something. My wife takes ergotamine at the first sign of a migraine, and it prevents blindness. Without it she loses her eyesight for hours to days and suffers terribly. It took her several doctors before she found one who was willing to believe her, and probably because she kept a log like I described.
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post #47 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
Does the LSD permanently change your brain's communication process at the molecular level- flashbacks?

I read that Jim Morrison of The Doors fame would eat LSD "pillets" like Chicklettes.
I can still recall some of the visual and auditory hallucinations I experienced over 25 years ago just like any other memory. One interesting side-effect I noted from LSD was it quashed my interest in ever using any other drug, including alcohol, again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FSON
I think you can learn ways to open the doors of perception without the use of drugs, and these can be personality changing also (for the better).
Agreed. Psychedelic drugs could possibly be of some benefit however in introducing you to the concept of altered perception.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 02-22-2008 at 02:37 PM.
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post #48 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper

You may not even need to see a psych at all, you may go to a migraine specialist or something. My wife takes ergotamine at the first sign of a migraine, and it prevents blindness. Without it she loses her eyesight for hours to days and suffers terribly. It took her several doctors before she found one who was willing to believe her, and probably because she kept a log like I described.
Mine takes Lexapro....and that is pretty much the procedure that we had to go through as well. The medicine has worked wonders as long as she doesn't forget to take it. It does cause tingling and weight loss though, and she is small already. She had the same issues....blindness..vomiting....really bad stuff. They DEFINITELY want you to keep a log though.

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