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post #1 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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What would it take to make you switch sides?

I am an atheist, and am often asked what would it take to make you believe in god. I tell if god came to me, and I could see and talk to him, and he could prove that he was god, then I would change my mind.

Atheists, what would it take for you to believe in god.

Christians, what would it take for you to believe there is no god?
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post #2 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:15 PM
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I just flat out don't believe in the supernatural, so it would take a pretty specific revelation/miracle to prove to me otherwise
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post #3 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:17 PM
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This will be interesting.

I'd guess an Athiest would believe if God visited them.

However, no lack of proof, no horrible tradegy, no plague, no genocide will deter the beliefs of those who have "faith".

I believe in God, but I also believe most popular religions aren't even close to accurate in how they view him.

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post #4 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:32 PM
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i belive u your going to hell!
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post #5 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
This will be interesting.

I'd guess an Athiest would believe if God visited them.

However, no lack of proof, no horrible tradegy, no plague, no genocide will deter the beliefs of those who have "faith".

I believe in God, but I also believe most popular religions aren't even close to accurate in how they view him.

Scott
Where does your knowledge of God's attributes come from?
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post #6 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
I am an atheist, and am often asked what would it take to make you believe in god. I tell if god came to me, and I could see and talk to him, and he could prove that he was god, then I would change my mind.

Atheists, what would it take for you to believe in god.
Your eyes must be opened by the Spirit of God. Faith comes be hearing.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.


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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
Christians, what would it take for you to believe there is no god?
I cannot imagine anything...
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post #7 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
Where does your knowledge of God's attributes come from?
I didn't claim I have special knowledge as to God's mission or attributes.

But when I studied history & saw how organized religion has been manipulated & high jacked for political gain & pure greed, almost from day one........even the church's themselves are corrupt....I realized most who follow the herd don't have a clue. That's also true of secular life as well.

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post #8 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I didn't claim I have special knowledge as to God's mission or attributes.

But when I studied history & saw how organized religion has been manipulated & high jacked for political gain & pure greed, almost from day one........even the church's themselves are corrupt....I realized most who follow the herd don't have a clue. That's also true of secular life as well.

Scott
By what standard of truth then can you claim the below then?

Have you ever studied the protestant reformation? Luther and the other reformers opposed the corruption and manipulation of Rome.

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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I believe in God, but I also believe most popular religions aren't even close to accurate in how they view him.
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post #9 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
Your eyes must be opened by the Spirit of God. Faith comes be hearing.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” [Stephen F Roberts]
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post #10 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:36 PM
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Nothing....even if one day they found a tomb and inside they found a body and said it was Christ's, I still wouldn't stop believing. Since I believe, I know there is an evil side as well, capable of deception.

Then again, I have the added "benefit" of supernatural experience long before I was a Christian. The idea of nothing is not an option for me.

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post #11 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:41 PM
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Maybe God uses faith as the path to Him as a means of getting man to realize there is more outside of Creation than what man can prove to exist within the limits of his five senses. Atheists seem to be driven to pigeonhole man's existence into something that can be quantified and explained by perceived rules, and will not accept that a Higher Power can exist outside of those rules without proof. Trouble is such proof would be limited to conforming to man's abilities of perception, and God can exist both within and outside of man's perceptions.
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post #12 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” [Stephen F Roberts]
Cute saying, but I don't see the relevance to any of my posts.
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post #13 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
By what standard of truth then can you claim the below then?
Like so many Christian's with narrow view points you seem to think that if I don't believe in YOUR church or YOUR religion, I must be an athiest. Got news for you, 90% of the earth's population are NOT Baptists.

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post #14 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Like so many Christian's with narrow view points you seem to think that if I don't believe in YOUR church or YOUR religion, I must be an athiest. Got news for you, 90% of the earth's population are NOT Baptists.

Scott
You didn't answer the question. If other religions aren't even close in accurate of how they view God, then, by default, your view must be more accurate or true than theirs.

Then I asked you by what standard of truth can you make that claim.
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post #15 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” [Stephen F Roberts]
So true.

I've asked my religious buddies what made them believe what they believe. They all said they let him in then they believed. I'm like wtf? So you believe in it without question then you will see? That's like me telling you to suck my dick because it's good for you and you believe me.

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post #16 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 07:13 AM
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Lol at the above post...


The only thing that would get me off the fence is if my dad tapped me on the shoulder and told me that there is a God. But since he's not going to be doing that, I'm thinking nothing will.
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post #17 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:28 AM
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As a child I believed what I was taught by my parents and my schooling.

As an adult, I realize that if pure evolution were the answer, there is nothing separating man from animals. There are no human rights, there is no good will, there is none of this since we are purely animals. This does not mean I do not believe in evolution, but I believe it is guided by a creator.

If a lion can kill the cubs of a pride because they are not his and he wants to pass his genes along, I can take a woman and kill her children so my genes are passed along. This is a part of nature.

Well, humans don't act this way, or it is not acceptable for them to do so since we know there are sociopath and such. That is because we are a higher life form. There are too many characteristics of the human nature, which Christians would say is man made in the image of God and not human creations.

I have not had a major conversion from some "evil" or destructive life because I never lived that kind of life. Think about the Prodigal Son story. The one son did not leave his father, but he was still learning about his father at the end of the story. I view myself as the second son. I get instructed and chastised, I still do wrong, but I did not have to completely leave my father in my sin.

Because I was raised with the education as a child, I know that I will not always get my way or understand God’s Plan for me, so I never strayed too far. I can’t think of anything which would make me not believe since I know I don’t understand God’s Will.

1. An individual’s act or a personal disaster won’t do it.
2. Some new found history won’t do it since it is the interpretation which would try to sway me and not a specific fact. This is how we have different Christian denominations. The fact is written, it is the interpretation that causes division.

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post #18 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by propellerhead
So true.

I've asked my religious buddies what made them believe what they believe. They all said they let him in then they believed. I'm like wtf? So you believe in it without question then you will see? That's like me telling you to suck my dick because it's good for you and you believe me.
I think what your friend's are trying to explain is Hope.

They "Hope" that the words they have heard are true. Based on this Hope they took a leap which led to Faith and other Graces. This hope does not stop there, but is starts there.

I have not read the entire thig, but Pope Benedict has his Encyclical Letter
SPE SALVI (In hope we are saved) on this link.

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post #19 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 11:37 AM
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post #20 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
You didn't answer the question. If other religions aren't even close in accurate of how they view God, then, by default, your view must be more accurate or true than theirs.

Then I asked you by what standard of truth can you make that claim.
Okam's Razor, in the absence of proof, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

Consider this, God created the entire universe right? In the observable universe (approx 22 billion light years horizon to horizon), there are at least 100 billion galaxies, each with approx 100 billion stars. Science now knows that at least 30% of stars have planets, so there are trillions of planets out there.....if even only one in a billion has intelligent life.....that's million of societies out there, some no doubt, more advanced than us. And what if these more advanced people don't look anything like us? Yet, we're made in God's image? How could WE be in God's image if there were people out there more advanced than us? So the Earth is actually just a spec in the ocean. And I'll bet that when we meet these more advanced people, they WON'T hand us a bible. But if the Bible is REALLY the universal code, you'ld think ALL planets & societies would use it, right?

Yet on Earth, you have at least 5 major religions, each divided into hundreds of sub sects & most disagree about the nature of God, which holy book to follow & the road to salvation. If we as a planet cannot agree on a doctrine of God ( and we're just one of millions of intelligent societies).....how accurate can these differing religious concepts be?

I'm going to speculate that sometime in the next 300 years we will find these other societies, and the major religions of the Earth will relegated to the history books like old Egyptian and Greek mythologies.

Scott

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post #21 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Okam's Razor, in the absence of proof, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

Consider this, God created the entire universe right? In the observable universe (approx 22 billion light years horizon to horizon), there are at least 100 billion galaxies, each with approx 100 billion stars. Science now knows that at least 30% of stars have planets, so there are trillions of planets out there.....if even only one in a billion has intelligent life.....that's million of societies out there, some no doubt, more advanced than us. And what if these more advanced people don't look anything like us? Yet, we're made in God's image? How could WE be in God's image if there were people out there more advanced than us? So the Earth is actually just a spec in the ocean. And I'll bet that when we meet these more advanced people, they WON'T hand us a bible. But if the Bible is REALLY the universal code, you'ld think ALL planets & societies would use it, right?

Yet on Earth, you have at least 5 major religions, each divided into hundreds of sub sects & most disagree about the nature of God, which holy book to follow & the road to salvation. If we as a planet cannot agree on a doctrine of God ( and we're just one of millions of intelligent societies).....how accurate can these differing religious concepts be?

I'm going to speculate that sometime in the next 300 years we will find these other societies, and the major religions of the Earth will relegated to the history books like old Egyptian and Greek mythologies.

Scott
I'm with you on this one.

I try not to judge anyone for their beliefs or even comment on them, so long as they don't try and force me to share them, or say that I'm "damned to hell" because I don't share their beliefes.

I actually envy most of them that they can believe something so completely with absolutely no proof. Just a very long work of fiction that has been passed down (and no doubt changed) for thousands of years before it was ever written down. I just can't blindly believe something just because you think I should.

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post #22 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1
As a child I believed what I was taught by my parents and my schooling.

As an adult, I realize that if pure evolution were the answer, there is nothing separating man from animals. There are no human rights, there is no good will, there is none of this since we are purely animals. This does not mean I do not believe in evolution, but I believe it is guided by a creator.

If a lion can kill the cubs of a pride because they are not his and he wants to pass his genes along, I can take a woman and kill her children so my genes are passed along. This is a part of nature.
Something bothers me with this statement. You take an extreme example, and state resolutely that we are not animals.

Yet you ignore animals such as dolphins that save swimmers from sharks, or the polar bear playing with husky dogs. And plenty of other instances where animals don't just blindly kill each other, or us, on a whim.

Well, here's an extreme example on our side: in China, families are limited to only 2 children, and some of them, if their first child is not male, will kill their first born daughter. So they can pass their name along. It's not even genes, it's pure selfishness and pride in something as intangible as one's name.

Survey says: we're not any different from animals.

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post #23 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Something bothers me with this statement. You take an extreme example, and state resolutely that we are not animals.

Yet you ignore animals such as dolphins that save swimmers from sharks, or the polar bear playing with husky dogs. And plenty of other instances where animals don't just blindly kill each other, or us, on a whim.

Well, here's an extreme example on our side: in China, families are limited to only 2 children, and some of them, if their first child is not male, will kill their first born daughter. So they can pass their name along. It's not even genes, it's pure selfishness and pride in something as intangible as one's name.

Survey says: we're not any different from animals.

The thing is we don't see obvious selfishness in animals.. we see base instinct such as fighting for ..or to keep...food, etc. We as humans are the only creatures that consciously make a selfish choice like that. What animals do does not always make sense, like the sited examples above...BUT, they are not conscious decisions. I don't believe that the bear makes a conscious decision not to attack the dogs, while a family in china does make one. They make an informed decision to "kill" as you said.

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post #24 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1
As a child I believed what I was taught by my parents and my schooling.

As an adult, I realize that if pure evolution were the answer, there is nothing separating man from animals. There are no human rights, there is no good will, there is none of this since we are purely animals. This does not mean I do not believe in evolution, but I believe it is guided by a creator.
You ARE an animal, did you realize that 98% of your DNA is the same as a chimpanzee's?

Human rights, good will, right & wrong are human concepts, born in your mind, not concrete objects, or a part of your body. All concepts of value exist only in the human mind. Gold & diamonds are valuable only because we think they are, in reality they are just rocks.

The superior abilities of the human mind are the only substantial difference between us & all other mammals. But don't get too high & mighty about our place here, humans are the only species that kills for sport & prey's upon itself. WE're also the only species that has wiped out hundreds of other species.

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post #25 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 01:08 PM
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FWIW, our "feelings" or morality, etc. can all be explained by evolutionary benefits. Just thought I'd throw that down, but that's for another thread I guess.
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post #26 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
You ARE an animal, did you realize that 98% of your DNA is the same as a chimpanzee's?

Human rights, good will, right & wrong are human concepts, born in your mind, not concrete objects, or a part of your body. All concepts of value exist only in the human mind. Gold & diamonds are valuable only because we think they are, in reality they are just rocks.

The superior abilities of the human mind are the only substantial difference between us & all other mammals. But don't get too high & mighty about our place here, humans are the only species that kills for sport & prey's upon itself. WE're also the only species that has wiped out hundreds of other species.

Scott

We also share up to 80%, and bare minimum 60% with a banana.....does that make you a fruit? Or at least a little bit? Context, context..........

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post #27 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
We also share up to 80%, and bare minimum 60% with a banana.....does that make you a fruit? Or at least a little bit? Context, context..........
Well, there are common genes among many different parts of life. I don't know if we share 60% of our genome with a banana, but I'll take your word for it in lack of evidence.

Nevertheless, if most organisms share something like 60%, then take into consideration the part we don't share. Say we look at that other 40% of which we are 0% banana, but 95% chimp.
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post #28 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 01:52 PM
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Well, there are common genes among many different parts of life. I don't know if we share 60% of our genome with a banana, but I'll take your word for it in lack of evidence.

Nevertheless, if most organisms share something like 60%, then take into consideration the part we don't share. Say we look at that other 40% of which we are 0% banana, but 95% chimp.

Well we can both site evidence validating our statistics..... so where to go from there? I don't know. Most living things don't actually share that much, especially with us...bananas and certain worms.. (excluding primates) are very close to us in terms of DNA. Am I more worm or fruit? Or am I a fruity, wormy chimp? My point is that similarity to a chimpanzee is no basis for law....or even theory imo.

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post #29 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 02:31 PM
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We also share up to 80%, and bare minimum 60% with a banana.....does that make you a fruit? Or at least a little bit? Context, context..........
Actually, I was going to mention that 60% of our DNA is the same as a tree.......but 60% is a LONG from 98%.

The context your asking for it that DNA is kinda like digital code, a series of yes/no (or 1/0) instructions. Sharing 60% DNA with a tree means : we are both carbon based lie forms, that require water, iron, sucrose, carbohydrates, similar temperature range, atmosheric conditions, etc. Thus the higher the shared %, the more similar 2 life forms are.

Scott

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post #30 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 03:10 PM
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Actually, I was going to mention that 60% of our DNA is the same as a tree.......but 60% is a LONG from 98%.

The context your asking for it that DNA is kinda like digital code, a series of yes/no (or 1/0) instructions. Sharing 60% DNA with a tree means : we are both carbon based lie forms, that require water, iron, sucrose, carbohydrates, similar temperature range, atmosheric conditions, etc. Thus the higher the shared %, the more similar 2 life forms are.

Scott
Then by your rationale..surely we would share more DNA with a dog, or a bear, than a worm and banana, which we don't.

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post #31 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 03:15 PM
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I'm not so difficult. I think if the content of the Bible made more sense to me, I'd be cool with joining "the flock". The New Testament isn't so bad, but the old one... oh my goodness. I just can't accept the tales as I've read in the bible. Also, the diversity of beliefs and organizations spawning from the same source doesn’t lead credibility to me. Oh yea, also the historical realities of how Christianity has grown and expanded throughout the world cast it in a poor light for me.

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post #32 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 04:03 PM
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Note that Jesus coming was prophesized in the Old Testament. Many of the other events in the Old Testament carry over to the New Testament as well, summed up by Isaiah who prophesied that Israel was to be a light unto the nations. The seemingly strict laws to which the early Jews were subject was likely appropriate for the time, and adherance to them forged the Covenant with God. Gentiles (like me) have it much easier; our Covenant with God only requires that we follow Jesus.
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post #33 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Something bothers me with this statement. You take an extreme example, and state resolutely that we are not animals.

Yet you ignore animals such as dolphins that save swimmers from sharks, or the polar bear playing with husky dogs. And plenty of other instances where animals don't just blindly kill each other, or us, on a whim.

Well, here's an extreme example on our side: in China, families are limited to only 2 children, and some of them, if their first child is not male, will kill their first born daughter. So they can pass their name along. It's not even genes, it's pure selfishness and pride in something as intangible as one's name.

Survey says: we're not any different from animals.
I never said a animal must kill, I said they are allowed under the laws of nature. It is in the nature of the lion to kill the cubs which are not its own. Killing to amke sure it's genes are passed in not "blindly kill each other, or us, on a whim."

If we are guided only by nature, then what China (a communist country) does is acceptable.

I do not find it acceptable, but I am Christian. A Christian views abortion as evil. A communist does not have this view since there is no God.

Great example Darkhorse!

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post #34 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1

I do not find it acceptable, but I am Christian. A Christian views abortion as evil. A communist does not have this view since there is no God.
Why do Christians view abortion as evil? Is it because it supposedly kills an unborn child? If that is the case, do Christians support the death penalty? In my opinion killing is killing, anyway you slice it.
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post #35 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
Why do Christians view abortion as evil? Is it because it supposedly kills an unborn child? If that is the case, do Christians support the death penalty? In my opinion killing is killing, anyway you slice it.

Not to derail the thread, but it is a wild stretch to equate abortion with the death penalty. Convicted felons made choices to do what they did, and have to reap what they have sown. In an abortion setting, a baby is "innocent" and has no chance to run, do right or wrong, or defend itself... there is absolutely no similarity in the two. Killing IS killing, but not all killing is murder. Murder is irrational killing, not "deserved killing". Criminals are subject to the laws of man, the unborn are not, but still pay with their lives for being inconvenient.

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post #36 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Then by your rationale..surely we would share more DNA with a dog, or a bear, than a worm and banana, which we don't.
Where are you getting your numbers, might I ask? Would just like to see them...
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post #37 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
Not to derail the thread, but it is a wild stretch to equate abortion with the death penalty. Convicted felons made choices to do what they did, and have to reap what they have sown. In an abortion setting, a baby is "innocent" and has no chance to run, do right or wrong, or defend itself... there is absolutely no similarity in the two. Killing IS killing, but not all killing is murder. Murder is irrational killing, not "deserved killing". Criminals are subject to the laws of man, the unborn are not, but still pay with their lives for being inconvenient.
So do Christians support the death penalty?
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post #38 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AdamLX
So do Christians support the death penalty?
IMHO, they shouldn't, because "Thou shall not kill". Second, Jesus said "turn the other cheek"
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post #39 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:12 PM
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Christians as a rule are to support the laws of the land, so if state or federal law mandates the death penalty there is no compelling theological reason for a Christian to oppose it. Me personally, I'm not in favor of it because the possibility of human error, however remote, might result in the killing of an innocent person.
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post #40 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
IMHO, they shouldn't, because "Thou shall not kill". Second, Jesus said "turn the other cheek"
That was going to be my original reply, but after reading his post a few times I realized he didn't answer your question.

I never remembered a footnote in the 10 Commandments stating "unless justified".
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post #41 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Christians as a rule are to support the laws of the land, so if state or federal law mandates the death penalty there is no compelling theological reason for a Christian to oppose it. Me personally, I'm not in favor of it because the possibility of human error, however remote, might result in the killing of an innocent person.
So the Laws of the Land supercede rules supposedly set forth directly by God?
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post #42 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:16 PM
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Where are you getting your numbers, might I ask? Would just like to see them...

They are easy facts to obtain.. I get my numbers from books...but if you want sources that you can check right now, you can find some references here:
http://www.thingsyoudontneedtoknow.com/dnabananas.html

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post #43 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamLX
So the Laws of the Land supercede rules supposedly set forth directly by God?

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

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post #44 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamLX
That was going to be my original reply, but after reading his post a few times I realized he didn't answer your question.

I never remembered a footnote in the 10 Commandments stating "unless justified".

In the original translation it is translated "Thou shall not murder"
Which is completely different. We can also see this translation in Gen 8, where it says Cain "killed" his brother, when in the original languages, it said that he "murdered" his brother.

Again, context....



Christ was not alluding that we should not defend ourselves or our families...what he was speaking to was revenge, and that we should let wrongs to us roll of or just "turn the other cheek"


*sheesh guys, look into these things

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post #45 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
IMHO, they shouldn't, because "Thou shall not kill". Second, Jesus said "turn the other cheek"
The Commandment actually said you shall not murder.

Turn the other cheek is an admonition against personal vengeance, not an admonition against self-defense or a state's efforts to exact restraint or punishment on one who intentionally and with malice harms other members of his society.
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post #46 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamLX
So the Laws of the Land supercede rules supposedly set forth directly by God?
Where do the laws of the land supercede any of the Ten Commandments?
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post #47 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
The old testament also says in Leviticus 11:10-12
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Deuteronomy 22:11
"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together."

Do you eat shrimp? Or clothing of a mix of fibers? The old testament says a lot of things....do you follow just parts of it, or the whole thing?
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post #48 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
The old testament also says in Leviticus 11:10-12
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Deuteronomy 22:11
"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together."

Do you eat shrimp? Or clothing of a mix of fibers? The old testament says a lot of things....do you follow just parts of it, or the whole thing?

Are you serious?

I am not an old testament Jew, I am a Gentile under the new covenant.


.....next

Really, please study these things......

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post #49 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
The old testament also says in Leviticus 11:10-12
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Deuteronomy 22:11
"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together."

Do you eat shrimp? Or clothing of a mix of fibers? The old testament says a lot of things....do you follow just parts of it, or the whole thing?
Old Testament laws applied to Israel. This is another example of one quoting the Bible but obviously not understanding it.
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post #50 of 143 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Where does it say that it only applies to Israel?

Didn't Jesus say that you must not ignore the laws and teachings of the old testament?
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