Originally Posted by Mateo5.0
you aren't stupid. But you might as well believe in Nostradamus.
Nostradamus was most likely a fraud. His prophecies were incredibly vague and could be attributed to any event in the future. Also, people have forged his prophesies and then said, "look, it came true on this date," yet Nostradamus never made that prophecy at all. I couldn't care less about Nostradamus.
I think it's amazing that all this history has been written down for over two thousand years, albeit changed countless times over....
Oh really? Please explain how history has been changed countless times over. And I'd especially like an explanation as to how people changed history to meet these prophecies when no one has understood these prophecies until the late 70's - early 2000's.
Yes, I know that it's hard to believe it, but your fellow man of the faith has betrayed you on this one. From generation to generation, two thousand years worth of knowledge and theology- Changed and re-translated many, many times over not only to cement the peoples faith, but to re-assert power that might be lost if not published and worshiped. Not to mention, the main reason behind religious expansion was to control the minds of the people.
You actually believe this crap, don't you? LOL That's too funny. Please allow me to make your belief look like ridiculousness.
First of all, I must say, which is it? Did history change or did the Bible change? Because you first assert that history has been altered many times, then you say the Bible has been altered many times. Which is it? Both?
Next, let's get into how the Bible HAS NOT changed and how we can prove it.
1. There are over 27,000 original copies of the original manuscript scrolls. They are basically identical.
2. These scrolls come from TONS of different countries or origin, which means EVERY person that EVER copied the original scrolls would've had to have met up with everyone ELSE that copied a scroll, and changed that scroll to meet the changes in the other scrolls.
3. These scrolls are so meticulously copied that if one letter is incorrect, they will burn the entire scroll so that nothing is tainted. They count every letter of every word, and the number of words in each scroll. It's extremely maticulous. I'll give a link to an explanation for this at the bottom of this post.
4. Over the years, EVERY scroll EVERY found would have to be collected into the same place and modified in its original form on the original parchment paper in order to change the Bible without anyone knowing, yet not one of the scrolls has evidence that they were altered in any way.
5. The original Hebrew & Greek NEVER change on these scrolls, and therefore, can be accurately translated, as they have for a couple thousand years now.
6. In 1948, we found the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Middle East, hidden in caves off the shores of the Dead Sea. These scrolls were untouched for over 2000 years, and they contain only the Old Testament books of the Bible. When compared to the scrolls we have had for over two thousand years, they are exactly a like, proving that not one Old Testament scroll has been changed in over two thousand years. These Dead Sea scrolls have been dated to 300BC, approximately.
7. The New Testament scrolls are compared with scrolls we found around 900 AD, which again, were not modified one bit. We have tons of scrolls to compare with, all of which agree with each other. From time to time, you find missing scripture which most likely happened due to someone copying from a torn scroll or something to that extent, but that is rare. The other thousands of scrolls are identical, regardless of the few incomplete scrolls.
Here is a link to an explanation for this. It's not long, and it shows how it is utterly impossible to pull of a modification of the original scrolls that make up the Old and New Testament and gives 100% proof that we have the accurate, unchanged scrolls today.
On top of that, we can go back to the old Strong's references to get the single meaning of each word in the Hebrew and Greek, and you can compare this to the original ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek dictionaries to see that it is correct. Then, you can go back to the 1611 King James Version (the original) and see that the words are translated almost exactly like they're supposed to be, with the exception for VERY VERY few little translated words that were simply a misunderstanding of the translators due to the passage not making sense. For instance, the fourth horseman in prophecy is riding a green horse, but they translated it to be a pale horse from the "pale green" possibility of this word. They see horses day in and day out and didn't understand how a horse could be green. So they translated it "pale" instead. They didn't realize it was symbolism, and the color was symbolic, not literal, so they made a mistake on that one. But those are few and far between. VERY very few. 99.999999999% of the words are completely translated correct and can be checked out with any ancient Hebrew or ancient Greek dictionary.
In other words, our Bible scrolls and the King James Version is pretty much 100% accurate and unchanged, without a doubt. The NASB is the next best modern translation. The rest of the Bibles lack a bit, because the translators took liberties with the translated words, and that was really stupid. However, regardless of what they changed through translation errors, it didn't change the overall message and it definitely never changed the prophecies I've stated in these posts. Therefore, you have absolutely no leg to stand on with your accusation. Every Bible scholar in the world would laugh you out of a debate if you said this. They all know they're accurate, and that's why your view on a modified Bible is not a view held by any of the major Bible scholars.
But besides the fact that the church has a sketchy past, what with burning people, drowning them, massacring millions, and charging them gold to get into heaven. Why on earth would you believe that they haven't been altered? But no let's all believe that in no way, fashion or form, that the "prophecies" have not been altered. Let's all sit back and-
^I guess that explains it all...
Wow, the delusion continues further.
Alright, let's assume for a moment that the church DID change the original Bible manuscripts (which, as we've seen, is impossible). How, pre-tell, did people in the 1500's change the Bible to FIT these prophecies that would not come to pass till 1776, 1948 and 1967? I ask, because we know the Bible hasn't changed since the 1611 with the introduction of the King James Version. We have other Bibles earlier than that to confirm this, and the scrolls as well. How on earth would these people change prophecies 200-400+ years before they came to pass? How would they know? They couldn't! Your theory is completely and utterly ridiculous. Seriously...you should think these things through and do some studying before you make ridiculous off-the-top-of-your-head comments like this. It just shows how you really haven't researched this stuff and that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. You're just thinking up possible explanations that make sense to you and would appear to make these prophecies look fraudulent. Sorry, but your arguments are ridiculous...
And it's entertaining to read them and make associations with worldly historic events, and especially easy when they give you a road map to do so. All these are meant to do is cement your faith with the rest of the ideology and hopefully "secure your place in heaven". Guess what? Heaven is on earth (it is written), and how you live determines your heaven, not your afterlife (not written). The Bible is a great book with many lessons that apply to our modern lives, but beyond that it is mostly fiction and/or metaphor. A lot of it is based on true, historic events that really happened. But most of it is not.
That's funny, because historians say that the Bible is one of the most accurate and best history books we have, and it has yet to be disproven. We have found countless evidences of events and time periods in the Bible with completely accuracy to the texts. In fact, we know the Bible was written in exactly the time periods and the places it says it was written because the terminology changes by the culture. Daniel was written while the Jews were in Babylon. Low and behold, there is Babylonian sayings in Daniel. So we know he was actually there when he wrote it at that time period. You really have ABSOLUTELY NOT ARGUMENT here. You've been completely disproven on your points. Get over it.
It is humbling to realize how many priests, kings, popes, translators that the writings have passed down through- NOT EVEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT MOST OF THE LANGUAGES SPOKEN BACK THEN ARE NOW DEAD.
Hebrew is not dead by any means. Ask any Jew to speak it for you. The only thing that's changed is that it's old Hebrew. Most any Hebrew speaker can give you a pretty darn good translation of the Hebrew scrolls from the Old Testament.
Also, ancient Greek is WELL documented and easily translatible. What's laughable is that you actually think you know something about this stuff when it's blatantly obvious that you don't.