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post #1 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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question for the anti god folks....

do you celebrate CHRISTmas? if so, please explain why you celebrate the birth of Jesus..............

Had a discussion on this at work today, and wanted to see the consensus here.

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post #2 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 07:32 PM
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do you celebrate CHRISTmas? if so, please explain why you celebrate the birth of Jesus..............

Had a discussion on this at work today, and wanted to see the consensus here.


Christmas was a pagen holiday before it was a celebration of the so called birth of christ.
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post #3 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by talisman
Christmas was a pagen holiday before it was a celebration of the so called birth of christ.


soooooooo do you celebrate it? Or just evade it like the original question.

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post #4 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
soooooooo do you celebrate it? Or just evade it like the original question.
You sure do seem to be getting more and more hostile lately. Making me reconsider how I should address you. I'm trying to be amiable thus far.

I'm athiest and I celebrate Christmas. It has about as much meaning to me as New Years, which I also celebrate. They are both man made constructs in my eyes after all (god, years). It's just tradition, and a damn good excuse to party.
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post #5 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
soooooooo do you celebrate it? Or just evade it like the original question.
So do you celebrate the original pagan holiday?
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post #6 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-17-2007, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro88LX
do you celebrate CHRISTmas? if so, please explain why you celebrate the birth of Jesus..............

Had a discussion on this at work today, and wanted to see the consensus here.
I don't celebrate CHRISTmas, but I do celebrate Yule. I'm down with the hip lingo though, I can say "Merry christmas" like everyone else, but I'll keep spreading the Yuletide cheer.

Tell me, do you decorate a christmas tree?

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post #7 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 12:01 AM
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you mean the pagan ritual of setting up a tree and decorating it? Of course, but I make it a tree to honor Christ and as such..is not pagan anymore.

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post #8 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro88LX
do you celebrate CHRISTmas? if so, please explain why you celebrate the birth of Jesus..............

Had a discussion on this at work today, and wanted to see the consensus here.
Why do Christian's think if you not a Christian, you are an athiest? Jews, Muslims, & even LDS Christians don't observe Christmas but they beleive in God.

The pagan holiday of Christmas is so bastardized, commercialized and abused it's sickening. The theme of Christmas is the sound of cash registers, that retailers rely on for 40% of thier yearly sales. Corporate America laughs all the way to the bank during Christmas.

What do elves, Santa Claus, Christmas trees, "Flying" reindeer have to do with the birth of Christ? Nothing, it's all lies You do know Christmas trees are specifically forbiden in the Bible, right?

Jeremiah 10
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not


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post #9 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Christmas was a pagen holiday before it was a celebration of the so called birth of christ.
LOL! I just learned that on Supernatural, who says tv cant be educational And that JHC was born in the Fall

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post #10 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
you mean the pagan ritual of setting up a tree and decorating it? Of course, but I make it a tree to honor Christ and as such..is not pagan anymore.
Making an idol is forbidden, according to the bible. Whether it's an idol to a pagan god, or jesus, it's still an idol.

Perhaps you should rethink decorating that tree, hmm?

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post #11 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 05:59 AM
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jesus wasn't born on christmas day
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post #12 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 06:11 AM
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If Christmas was not Christian, Christ and Mass would not be the roots of the name.

The question is about the date that is used to observe the birth of Christ.

Christmas is a Christian holiday.

Winter Solstice is a pagan holiday.

The Roman Catholic Church celebrates Christmas on Dec 25th shortly after the Winter Solstice because Jesus is the light of the world and it is obvious that the days are growing longer on Dec 25th. Most Christians follow the same calendar. This was chosen to supplant the pagan holiday, not to adopt it.

Some Eastern Rite Churches celebrate Christmas in January 6th. So much for the pagan holiday… So much for Christ being born on a specific day.....

The Roman Church often moved feasts and dates to correspond to pagan dates to supplant the pagan religion liturgy. The Eastern Church was not in contact with the barbarians of Europe to the extent that the Roman Church was so there is a greater assimilation of Roman holidays to pagan holidays.

The Greeks and the Romans do not celebrate Easter on the same day.

A good example of playing with the calendar to affect the lives of the community, take the Peace of God. The Church forbid warfare on feast days. The Catholic Church has a feast of some sort on almost everyday of the calendar. Does this mean that the Church condones warfare? Or is the Church trying to replace one thing with another?

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post #13 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 06:32 AM
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Oh yeah,

Feast of Saint Nicholas is December 6th and he is from present day Turkey and not the North Pole.

Legend has it that he threw 3 purses of gold coins into a poor mans home to be a dowry for his daughters under cover of night. I guess this is where we get Santa Claus coming at night to leave presents.

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post #14 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockwrkOrangeS4
jesus wasn't born on christmas day
x2

Also, just because you are an atheist, doesn't mean you are "anti-god". How can we be "anti-god" when we don't believe in god.

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post #15 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 07:08 AM
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Israeli meteorologists tracked December weather patterns for many years and concluded that the climate in Israel has been essentially constant for at least the last 2,000 years. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible states that, "broadly speaking, weather phenomena and climatic conditions as pictured in the Bible correspond with conditions as observed today" (R.B.Y. Scott, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1962, p. 625).

The temperature in the area of Bethlehem in December averages around 44 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) but can drop to well below freezing, especially at night. Describing the weather there, Sara Ruhin, chief of the Israeli weather service, noted in a 1990 press release that the area has three months of frost: December with 29 F. [minus 1.6 C.]; January with 30 F. [minus 1.1 C.] and February with 32 F. [0 C.].

Snow is common for two or three days in Jerusalem and nearby Bethlehem in December and January. These were the winter months of increased precipitation in Christ's time, when the roads became practically unusable and people stayed mostly indoors.

This is important evidence to disprove a December date for Christ's birth. Note that, at the time of Christ's birth, the shepherds tended their flocks in the fields at night. "Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields," wrote one Gospel writer, "keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:8). A common practice of shepherds was keeping their flocks in the field from April to October, but in the cold and rainy winter months they took their flocks back home and sheltered them.

One commentary admits that, "as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact, which casts considerable light upon this disputed point" (Adam Clarke's Commentary, Abingdon Press, Nashville, note on Luke 2:8).

Another study source agrees: "These humble pastoral folk are out in the field at night with their flock—a feature of the story which would argue against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted it" (The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary, Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1971, note on Luke 2:4-7).
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post #16 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlude
I'm athiest and I celebrate Christmas. It has about as much meaning to me as New Years, which I also celebrate. They are both man made constructs in my eyes after all (god, years). It's just tradition, and a damn good excuse to party.
+1

Why do some Christians question it when I buy presents and give them as Christmas gifts (which is the Christian thing to do)?

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post #17 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 08:18 AM
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YULE was celebrated long before Christmas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule
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post #18 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlude
You sure do seem to be getting more and more hostile lately. Making me reconsider how I should address you. I'm trying to be amiable thus far.

I'm athiest and I celebrate Christmas. It has about as much meaning to me as New Years, which I also celebrate. They are both man made constructs in my eyes after all (god, years). It's just tradition, and a damn good excuse to party.
I don't think it is that there is more hostility, if you pay attention to who I am addressing, you will see that I meet the tone of the question or comment. I surely have not been hostile to you, throughout our discussions, even gave you a compliment in another thread. See, what bothers me is when people come in here (this forum) and make one comment and then leave....just to "get at the Christians"..for one, this is juvenile, and two, one cannot respond because it is usually a stupid comment. It is not like the discussions that you and I engage in for instance. So if I come across that way, it is unintended. But there you go, thats the reason....


Now to address an earlier question:

No, setting up a tree, even though it has pagan roots, is not bad. As long as the intention is right. An idol by definition is thus:

i·dol (dl)
n.
1.
a. An image used as an object of worship.
b. A false god.
2. One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
3. Something visible but without substance.



None of these apply. The tree is simply like a gift. It is not worshiped, because I can't wait to put it away each year (one of those pre lit nightmares)

It is obviously not a god of any kind...if it were I would be tempted to pray to it for a new Vortech, which I know would be as close as I would get to getting one.

We don't adore it in any way, it just looks nice from outside with the windows open.

The last one is tricky....it is visible , but HAS substance. We put ornaments that reflect our family and things we have done/accomplished together. So in that regard, it has much substance...


Anyway, there it is....

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post #19 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:33 AM
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hanukkah is so much better than xmas
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post #20 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Why do Christian's think if you not a Christian, you are an athiest? Jews, Muslims, & even LDS Christians don't observe Christmas but they beleive in God.

The pagan holiday of Christmas is so bastardized, commercialized and abused it's sickening. The theme of Christmas is the sound of cash registers, that retailers rely on for 40% of thier yearly sales. Corporate America laughs all the way to the bank during Christmas.

What do elves, Santa Claus, Christmas trees, "Flying" reindeer have to do with the birth of Christ? Nothing, it's all lies You do know Christmas trees are specifically forbiden in the Bible, right?

Jeremiah 10
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not


Scott

i said ANTI GOD in the thread title.....

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post #21 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro88LX
i said ANTI GOD in the thread title.....
What is anti-God? Since athiest don't believe in God, they can't be anti-God. I don't believe in ghosts, so I can't be anti-ghost. Did you mean anti-Christian?

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post #22 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro88LX
i said ANTI GOD in the thread title.....
I don't think many people, if any, are anti-god.
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post #23 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 04:30 PM
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I'm anti-religion. If I believed in god, I think he'd be a lot cooler dude than most world relgions paint him out to be. I'd say most religions make him look like more of an alcoholic step father than anything else.
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post #24 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Now to address an earlier question:

No, setting up a tree, even though it has pagan roots, is not bad. As long as the intention is right. An idol by definition is thus:
The tree is an idol. It is a representation of an object/being of worship. The act of decorating the tree is a pagan rite. You can hide behind the textbook definition if it makes you feel better, but you cannot deny where the origins of the practice came from.

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post #25 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 04:39 PM
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The tree is an idol. It is a a representation of an object/being of worship. The act of decorating the tree is a pagan rite. You can hide behind the textbook definition if it makes you feel better, but you cannot deny where the origins of the practice came from.

I did no such thing.. I freely admitted that is where its origins are, same with "easter eggs". What you are failing to grasp is that it is not set up as
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
a representation of an object/being of worship.
So you can say that if it makes YOU feel better, but it is neither set up as a object, nor a being of worship.... I think you are barking up the wrong "tree"

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post #26 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 04:53 PM
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I'm not anti-God. I was raised Christian, but nowadays my personal stance on things is this: Who really knows? Maybe the Christians are right. Maybe the Jews are right. Maybe the Muslims have it right. Heck, maybe they all have it partially right or perhaps they are all dead wrong. Faith is one thing, but the simple FACT of the matter is that none of us really know for sure what exactly happened and what happens when we die. None of us have been on the other side (if there is one) and can talk about it today. Just like none of us know for sure that heaven doesn't exist. I personally like the idea that some kind of awesome being created the universe, and that we get to heaven when we die, but I would never claim to know for sure. I think a lot of these books that religions are based so literally on were really just a book of morals and guidelines joined up with creative stories to add interest and example, much like Aesop's Fables. By not fully backing and not denouncing any of the religions, I'm kinda keeping my options open. I'm wise enough and comfortable enough to admit that I really don't have a clue. I'd consider myself foolishly cocky if I insisted that I somehow know exactly what the truth is. BUT, I give religious peeps the benefit of the doubt - not labeling them as foolish or cocky but just realizing that they have chosen to believe in something. A lot of people can live better with something to believe in. Me, I don't need it. I'm totally fine with not knowing or picking one thing to believe in.


Anyway, with that said, YES, I do celebrate Christmas. I have two trees in the house. I have 3 or 4 nativity scenes set up. I listen to Christmas songs that talk about Jesus. Hey, I'm pulling for the guy! If he's the real deal, that's great. It's convenient, my family (parents and grandparents, etc) are into it, and it encourages happiness and kindness and all that fun stuff. If that pisses anyone off, I don't give a crud. I'm not worried about all the deep meaning of it and I'm not trying to win the Christain of the year award or the athiest of the year award. I also don't care if it's a silly commericalized thing. So what? You just do you and Imma do me.
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post #27 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
What is anti-God? Since athiest don't believe in God, they can't be anti-God. I don't believe in ghosts, so I can't be anti-ghost. Did you mean anti-Christian?

Scott
by anti God, i meant those that dont believe God exists

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post #28 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not anti-God. I was raised Christian, but nowadays my personal stance on things is this: Who really knows? Maybe the Christians are right. Maybe the Jews are right. Maybe the Muslims have it right. Heck, maybe they all have it partially right or perhaps they are all dead wrong. Faith is one thing, but the simple FACT of the matter is that none of us really know for sure what exactly happened and what happens when we die. None of us have been on the other side (if there is one) and can talk about it today. Just like none of us know for sure that heaven doesn't exist. I personally like the idea that some kind of awesome being created the universe, and that we get to heaven when we die, but I would never claim to know for sure. I think a lot of these books that religions are based so literally on were really just a book of morals and guidelines joined up with creative stories to add interest and example, much like Aesop's Fables. By not fully backing and not denouncing any of the religions, I'm kinda keeping my options open. I'm wise enough and comfortable enough to admit that I really don't have a clue. I'd consider myself foolishly cocky if I insisted that I somehow know exactly what the truth is. BUT, I give religious peeps the benefit of the doubt - not labeling them as foolish or cocky but just realizing that they have chosen to believe in something. A lot of people can live better with something to believe in. Me, I don't need it. I'm totally fine with not knowing or picking one thing to believe in.


Anyway, with that said, YES, I do celebrate Christmas. I have two trees in the house. I have 3 or 4 nativity scenes set up. I listen to Christmas songs that talk about Jesus. Hey, I'm pulling for the guy! If he's the real deal, that's great. It's convenient, my family (parents and grandparents, etc) are into it, and it encourages happiness and kindness and all that fun stuff. If that pisses anyone off, I don't give a crud. I'm not worried about all the deep meaning of it and I'm not trying to win the Christain of the year award or the athiest of the year award. I also don't care if it's a silly commericalized thing. So what? You just do you and Imma do me.

fair enough.

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post #29 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
I did no such thing.. I freely admitted that is where its origins are, same with "easter eggs". What you are failing to grasp is that it is not set up as

So you can say that if it makes YOU feel better, but it is neither set up as a object, nor a being of worship.... I think you are barking up the wrong "tree"
IT (the tree) is not the object/being of worship... hence the "representation of" portion of the definition. The tree is recognized pretty much the world over as a symbol of christmas. It represents christmas. Christmas is the celebration of Jesus' birth. Jesus is (or I should hope, if you truly call yourself christian) a being of worship and adoration. Making the tree a representation of Jesus.

An idol.

You can't shush it away, doing so doesn't change the fact it's forbidden in the bible you claim is the unerring word of God. What it does do, is make you feel better. Less guilty. And certainly easier than "being those weird people on the block that don't put up any decorations or a tree."

If you're ok with that, then more power to you! No one is suggesting you cease the practice. But you do need to be aware of what it is you're actually doing. (I'm using "you" in the royal sense, by the way)

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post #30 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro88LX
by anti God, i meant those that dont believe God exists
That by definition would be atheist, which does not imply anti-God.

Anti-God implies a conscious opposition, which requires a belief in "God."

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post #31 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 06:14 PM
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by anti God, i meant those that dont believe God exists
Your speaking non-sense, define ANTI

Anti: 1. against 2. hostile to 3. operates against. (Webster's)

To be against God, or hostile to God, or operate against God, means you must first believe in God. How can you be hostile towards something that doesn't exist (in the mind of an athiest)?

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post #32 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 07:31 PM
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The tree is an idol. It is a representation of an object/being of worship. The act of decorating the tree is a pagan rite. You can hide behind the textbook definition if it makes you feel better, but you cannot deny where the origins of the practice came from.
It's an icon, not an idol. You used the incorrect word "idol" in your original post/argument. Idols cannot be made to God, because that would require the Creator's image to be crafted by those He created, and no one is privy to that information. Christmas trees are not "worshipped" either, at least not by Christians. Decoration and celebration are not the same as worship.
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post #33 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Your speaking non-sense, define ANTI

Anti: 1. against 2. hostile to 3. operates against. (Webster's)

To be against God, or hostile to God, or operate against God, means you must first believe in God. How can you be hostile towards something that doesn't exist (in the mind of an athiest)?

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ok, to clarify once again....those people against the idea that there is a god.......is that better?....fuck........... some of y'all are reading a little too far into this.

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post #34 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 09:11 PM
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ok, to clarify once again....those people against the idea that there is a god.......is that better?....fuck........... some of y'all are reading a little too far into this.
doesn't God not like cursing?
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post #35 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 10:11 PM
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It's an icon, not an idol. You used the incorrect word "idol" in your original post/argument. Idols cannot be made to God, because that would require the Creator's image to be crafted by those He created, and no one is privy to that information. Christmas trees are not "worshipped" either, at least not by Christians. Decoration and celebration are not the same as worship.
Excellent point! I dont think it will satisfy though

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post #36 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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doesn't God not like cursing?
its just a word..............

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post #37 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro88LX
its just a word..............
just like fucking a girl outside of marriage is just an action?
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post #38 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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just like fucking a girl outside of marriage is just an action?
that is the worst comparison i have ever heard lol.

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post #39 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:20 PM
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that is the worst comparison i have ever heard lol.
im all up on my pain meds and more or less bored and trying to antagonize someone
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post #40 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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im all up on my pain meds and more or less bored and trying to antagonize someone
well go fuck around in the seb vs jkd thread then asshole!!!!! LOL

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post #41 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:33 PM
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well go fuck around in the seb vs jkd thread then asshole!!!!! LOL
too much reading to catch up on
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post #42 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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too much reading to catch up on

looks like you don't have anything better to do anyways............It makes for some good and pretty funny reading lol

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post #43 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-18-2007, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
It's an icon, not an idol. You used the incorrect word "idol" in your original post/argument. Idols cannot be made to God, because that would require the Creator's image to be crafted by those He created, and no one is privy to that information. Christmas trees are not "worshipped" either, at least not by Christians. Decoration and celebration are not the same as worship.
Ok, now you're just waxing semantics.

Idol and Icon can be used interchangeably in many cases. However, Icon is typically an image, a depiction, not a representation.

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, definition #3 for Icon is synonymous with Idol.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/icon
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/idol

And while that is the case, idol still more clearly defines what a christmas tree is. You see, because as I already explained prior to the post you quoted, the tree itself is not the object of worship/devotion. It represents Christmas, of which the focus is Jesus. Thus the christmas tree is an idol of or for, Jesus.

You people conveniently forget, the idol is not what is being worshipped, yet you always seem to parrot the same line. "Oh we don't worship a tree!"

You've been duped.

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post #44 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-19-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Ok, now you're just waxing semantics.

Idol and Icon can be used interchangeably in many cases. However, Icon is typically an image, a depiction, not a representation.

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, definition #3 for Icon is synonymous with Idol.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/icon
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/idol

And while that is the case, idol still more clearly defines what a christmas tree is. You see, because as I already explained prior to the post you quoted, the tree itself is not the object of worship/devotion. It represents Christmas, of which the focus is Jesus. Thus the christmas tree is an idol of or for, Jesus.

You people conveniently forget, the idol is not what is being worshipped, yet you always seem to parrot the same line. "Oh we don't worship a tree!"

You've been duped.

It's almost like you have a formula that states if A=B, then C must be an Idol. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. I agree, you can find points of concern with many Christian practices, but this is reaching. The main thing behind an idol is intent, or the state of the heart. An idol is to be worshiped. And that is just not going on. We don't say that yellow ribbons are an idol, or even an American flag. But like Mr. said, without worship, they are icons, or symbols. What you are saying would make the flag an object of worship as we say the pledge or sing the anthem. I think a better point for you would be to address the idolistic nature of commercialism in Christianity. That is idolistic if I have ever seen it.

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post #45 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-19-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
An idol is to be worshiped.
See, this is where your logic fails. No, an idol is NOT worshipped. An idol is a representation (either literal or symbolic) of something that is worshipped. In this case, Jesus is that which is worshipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
But like Mr. said, without worship, they are icons, or symbols.
An icon is an image or depiction of that which is worshipped. ie: the pictures of Jesus with the glow around his head = icon. Statues of the crucified Jesus = icon. Statues of the virgin mary = icon. In the latter two cases, they can also qualify as idols, in that Jesus is worshipped, as is the virgin mary in some denonminations.

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Last edited by DarkWolf; 12-19-2007 at 11:08 AM.
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post #46 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-19-2007, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04

i·dol (dl)
n.
1.
a. An image used as an object of worship.
b. A false god.
2. One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
3. Something visible but without substance.


..

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post #47 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-19-2007, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Ok, now you're just waxing semantics.

Idol and Icon can be used interchangeably in many cases. However, Icon is typically an image, a depiction, not a representation.

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, definition #3 for Icon is synonymous with Idol.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/icon
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/idol

And while that is the case, idol still more clearly defines what a christmas tree is. You see, because as I already explained prior to the post you quoted, the tree itself is not the object of worship/devotion. It represents Christmas, of which the focus is Jesus. Thus the christmas tree is an idol of or for, Jesus.

You people conveniently forget, the idol is not what is being worshipped, yet you always seem to parrot the same line. "Oh we don't worship a tree!"

You've been duped.
You have been duped if you think on such a simple level as to think a Christmas tree is an idol of, or for, Jesus. Stick to subjects you know about, which theology is definately not one of.
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post #48 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-20-2007, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
..
Quote:
Main Entry: idol
Pronunciation: \ˈī-dəl\
Function: noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French idle, from Late Latin idolum, from Greek eidōlon image, idol; akin to Greek eidos form — more at idyll
Date: 13th century
1: a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god 2 a: a likeness of something b obsolete : pretender, impostor
3: a form or appearance visible but without substance
4: an object of extreme devotion ; also : ideal 2
5: a false conception : fallacy
..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
You have been duped if you think on such a simple level as to think a Christmas tree is an idol of, or for, Jesus. Stick to subjects you know about, which theology is definately not one of.
Oh lookie there! Clever.

Well, you go right ahead and keep thinking that. And after you're done patting yourself on the back, before you go high five your fellow dupees, perhaps you should do a little research and learn about christians that haven't been duped, who reject the whole christmas "thing".

Here, these should get you started:
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2...igion/re13.txt
http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn6...christians.htm
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/...xmas/celeb.htm

What's that saying I hear christians prattle off a lot? Oh yeah, truth is not determined by how many people believe it.

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post #49 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-20-2007, 12:33 PM
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You're an idiot if you mistakenly think you know how and why I, along with other Christians, view the celebration of Christmas. You obviously know nothing about actual Christian views on a personal level, especially on my level, so quit trying to support your fallacious views through links. You treat Christmas however you must, but don't presume that you're learned enough speak for anyone else regarding the how and why of their treatment of the holiday.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 12-20-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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post #50 of 140 (permalink) Old 12-20-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
I'm anti-religion. If I believed in god, I think he'd be a lot cooler dude than most world relgions paint him out to be. I'd say most religions make him look like more of an alcoholic step father than anything else.
So for you to believe in a god, does that mean he would have to be made in an image you create?

I find it interesting that you say most religions paint him to look like an alcoholic step father. I view God as a loving father whom I disappoint. Does this mean you have not "seen" my God or you are creating your own image for what I see.

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