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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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American Atheists....

Interesting article.

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/...30&top_story=1

30 Million atheists in America, nearly double the amount of Jews, but we will always be labels as "anti-god" How can we be "anti-god" when we don't believe in god.
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 09:50 AM
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<--- One of the 30 million

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 09:56 AM
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I started reading the article, but it went too far left of my screen for me to even scroll.
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way Cool Jr
Interesting article.

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/...30&top_story=1

30 Million atheists in America, nearly double the amount of Jews, but we will always be labels as "anti-god" How can we be "anti-god" when we don't believe in god.
Actually, the article states 30 million in the last census answered "no religion". While that includes athiests, that doesn't imply only athiests.

Never the less, that number is double what it was in the 1990 census. In contrast, only 2.8 million claim to be Jewish, and 53 million claim to be Catholic (the largest christian denomination in America).

It's going to be interesting to see how things shake out in the 2010 census According to the article, some polls show that young American's are turning away from religion in record numbers, because of Bush and his overreaching religious agenda, and general incompetence.

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 12:26 PM
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Young Americans are also turning away from getting a job and supporting themselves in record numbers, opting instead to sponge off Mommy and Daddy. Is that because of someone else too?
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Young Americans are also turning away from getting a job and supporting themselves in record numbers, opting instead to sponge off Mommy and Daddy. Is that because of someone else too?
If Mommy and Daddy are allowing it, then yes, it's because of Mommy and Daddy spoiling their children.

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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 01:33 PM
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It's because left leaning political correctness has made them all victims of something...they want everything handed to them.


"He called me something, I can't work"

"I can't express my feelings at work"

"I am asked to do too much"

"I am stressed out because of work and it's affecting my marriage"

" My people were oppressed a hundred years ago, now give me something"


Our grandfathers would have laughed at this crap.....

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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf
If Mommy and Daddy are allowing it, then yes, it's because of Mommy and Daddy spoiling their children.
Nah....it couldn't possibly be just because the effers are lazy, now could it???
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 02:02 PM
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Newspaper today or yesterday:

Young people are using less drugs, although prescription pain killers are the drug of choice.

Dang it Bush, you're hurten our young people and driving them pain killers to numb life. We need some legislation. OK, Dems, let's beat this one to death in congress for the next 15 years.
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
It's because left leaning political correctness has made them all victims of something...they want everything handed to them.


"He called me something, I can't work"

"I can't express my feelings at work"

"I am asked to do too much"

"I am stressed out because of work and it's affecting my marriage"

" My people were oppressed a hundred years ago, now give me something"


Our grandfathers would have laughed at this crap.....
The above excuses could all be summarized by:

"I am a whiney _____" (insert bitch or bastard as appropriate)
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Nah....it couldn't possibly be just because the effers are lazy, now could it???
And who enables them to be lazy?

That's right. Mommy and Daddy. But in this day and age, parents don't want to take responsibility for how their children are raised, so it's understandable that you aren't grasping this concept of the parents being at fault.

Quote:
It's because left leaning political correctness has made them all victims of something...they want everything handed to them.


Going back to parental responsibility, lazy parents beget lazy children.

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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf
And who enables them to be lazy?

That's right. Mommy and Daddy. But in this day and age, parents don't want to take responsibility for how their children are raised, so it's understandable that you aren't grasping this concept of the parents being at fault.





Going back to parental responsibility, lazy parents beget lazy children.

You, like many others, place the blame anywhere but where it belongs. I, and many other parents I know, take full responsibity for how our children are raised. Some of the kids are just lazy....but like you, they'll blame anyone but themselves. Don't feel too bad, you're not the only blind boy out there today.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
You, like many others, place the blame anywhere but where it belongs.
You, like many others, know jack shit about me... yet try to come off clever with bold claims.

Quote:
I, and many other parents I know, take full responsibity for how our children are raised.
That would make you a rarity in this day and age.

Quote:
Some of the kids are just lazy....but like you, they'll blame anyone but themselves. Don't feel too bad, you're not the only blind boy out there today.
Failure.

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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 06:07 AM
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Being a parent myself, I know just a little about the subject about which I speak. Regarding you personally, I don't give a rat's ass, nor is any real challenge to point out the fallacies in your statements. As I posted before, you're just one of many who falls into the "blame someone else" parade. Doesn't make you stupid by any means, just wrong in this case.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 12-13-2007 at 08:23 AM.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 06:11 AM
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Whatever happened to people taking responsibility for their own actions?


People turning away from relgion because of the President? Guess their faith wasn't that strong to begin with.

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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 06:37 AM
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The statement about it being Bush's fault was in line with cetain posts in this thread, as well as being typically naive.

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 12-13-2007 at 06:59 AM.
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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 08:21 AM
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That is so true...if your faith is based on your perception on someone elses faith, then you have to examine more than you think. We live in a "pass the buck" society..

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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
As I posted before, you're just one of many who falls into the "blame someone else" parade. Doesn't make you stupid by any means, just wrong in this case.
As I posted before, you're just one of the many who falls into the "doesn't know jack shit about me" parade. Doesn't make you stupid by any means, just wrong in this case.

And, as I said before, you are among the minority of parents that take responsibility for the way they raise their children. Take the compliment for what it is.

Quote:
The statement about it being Bush's fault was in line with cetain posts in this thread, as well as being typically naive.
Just restating what the article showed.

Quote:
That is so true...if your faith is based on your perception on someone elses faith, then you have to examine more than you think. We live in a "pass the buck" society..
Care to explain where it indicated anyone was basing their faith on someone else's? All I saw was that young people are turning away from religion. That doesn't say anything about faith.

Oh yea of quick judgement.

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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf


Care to explain where it indicated anyone was basing their faith on someone else's? All I saw was that young people are turning away from religion. That doesn't say anything about faith.

Oh yea of quick judgement.
Was it, or was it not you who said "According to the article, some polls show that young American's are turning away from religion in record numbers, because of Bush and his overreaching religious agenda, and general incompetence"?

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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:25 AM
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I did. And I ask again, what does that have to do with faith?

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post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
I did. And I ask again, what does that have to do with faith?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D

People turning away from relgion because of the President? Guess their faith wasn't that strong to begin with.
Already answered you.

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post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:33 AM
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Already answered you.
People often confuse religion with faith. While they have some overlap, religion is not faith.

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post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:34 AM
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People often confuse religion with faith. While they have some overlap, religion is not faith.
My mistake. I thought it said faith. Me iz not da goodest reedr.

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post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
As I posted before, you're just one of the many who falls into the "doesn't know jack shit about me" parade.
As I posted before, I don't give a rat's ass about you personally, or care to "know jack shit about about you". You're still wrong, nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
And, as I said before, you are among the minority of parents that take responsibility for the way they raise their children. Take the compliment for what it is.
You know nothing about the parents of the kids our child is friends with. None of them seem to shirk their responsibilities, so I don't find myself, or them, to be in any minority whatsoever. Stick to what you know about, not things of which you are ignorant. And don't forget to blame someone else for your ignorance.
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post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
As I posted before, I don't give a rat's ass about you personally, or care to "know jack shit about about you".
You keep saying this. Yet you continue to make assumptions about me. You are the definition of hypocrisy, my friend.

Quote:
You know nothing about the parents of the kids our child is friends with. None of them seem to shirk their responsibilities, so I don't find myself, or them, to be in any minority whatsoever.
Yay for anecdotes!

Unfortunately, you and your circle of friends don't amount to the hair on a rat's ass, when compared to the entire country.

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And don't forget to blame someone else for your ignorance.
You just can't give it up, can you?

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post #26 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by D
Was it, or was it not you who said "According to the article, some polls show that young American's are turning away from religion in record numbers, because of Bush and his overreaching religious agenda, and general incompetence"?
You got to laugh at someone using "an article" and "some polls" to try to back up, and still fail to make, some BS point. Our kid has been active in the youth group at our church, along with many of his friends, and Bush has been in office the entire time. He may or not like Bush, but he's got enough common sense to make up his own mind about religion and doesn't appear too concerned about some "overreaching religious agenda and general incompetance" LOL

Don't sell our youth short, many of them are not nearly as dumb as the older folks writing articles (and quoting articles) about them.
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post #27 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
You keep saying this. Yet you continue to make assumptions about me. You are the definition of hypocrisy, my friend.



Yay for anecdotes!

Unfortunately, you and your circle of friends don't amount to the hair on a rat's ass, when compared to the entire country.



You just can't give it up, can you?
Sad, yes you are. Come back when you grow up and can mount a cognizant argument. No assuption there, it shows in your pathetic attempts at posting in this thread.

For the verbally challenged

cognizant:
Main Entry: cog·ni·zant
Function: adjective
Def: knowledgeable of something especially through personal experience
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post #28 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf

Unfortunately, you and your circle of friends don't amount to the hair on a rat's ass, when compared to the entire country.

Care to expound on that some?

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post #29 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:37 AM
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X2

Even in this thread, no one else seems to be outwardly disagreeing with my posts. Please do tell us more about this "minority" and exactly who considers them to be such, other than yourself LOL

Last edited by Mr Majestyk; 12-13-2007 at 10:48 AM.
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post #30 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
Care to expound on that some?
Well, let's see, we're nearing 400 million people in this country. One person, and their circle of friends, is more often far less than 1% of that 400 million.

I think it's fairly obvious that the anecdotal data point of one person and their circle of friends, is not a proper sampling needed to draw general conclusions.

Quote:
No assuption there, it shows in your pathetic attempts at posting in this thread.

For the verbally challenged

cognizant:
Main Entry: cog·ni·zant
Function: adjective
Def: knowledgeable of something especially through personal experience
Well, while we're on the subject, for the verbally challenged

assumption:
Main Entry:
as·sump·tion
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈsəm(p)-shən\
Function:
noun
4: arrogance, pretension
5 a: an assuming that something is true b: a fact or statement (as a proposition, axiom, postulate, or notion) taken for granted


Quote:
Please do tell us more about this "minority" and exactly who considers them to be such, other than yourself LOL
Parents suing video game companies, because they bought their child a Mature rated game, and are shocked it contains violence and sexuality.

Or where they go on the internet. Or what movies they go see. Or when Huckleberry Fin gets banned from a school's curriculum.

The very existence of the Parents Television Council is evidence that parents would rather not be responsible for the TV their children watch. Instead of limiting the time their children watch TV to when they can be there to monitor it, they'd rather have the "nanny" watch their kids for them.

More and more there are stories all over the country of parents that would rather have society raise their children for them. Because they're too busy. Or overwhelmed. Or tired. Or they "just don't know what to do".

But god forbid we have any corporal punishment! Or sports. Or valedictorians. Because it's just not fair to the other kids, regardless of the effort they put into it.

It's no wonder people overwhelmingly expect everything to be handed to them. It's no wonder they feel entitled. It's no wonder they're quick to sue. It's no wonder they want to take the easy way out. It's no wonder they'd rather mooch off their parents the rest of their lives. THEY WERE RAISED THAT WAY.

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post #31 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Well, let's see, we're nearing 400 million people in this country. One person, and their circle of friends, is more often far less than 1% of that 400 million.

I think it's fairly obvious that the anecdotal data point of one person and their circle of friends, is not a proper sampling needed to draw general conclusions.

Well, while we're on the subject, for the verbally challenged

assumption:
Main Entry:
as·sump·tion
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈsəm(p)-shən\
Function:
noun
4: arrogance, pretension
5 a: an assuming that something is true b: a fact or statement (as a proposition, axiom, postulate, or notion) taken for granted




Parents suing video game companies, because they bought their child a Mature rated game, and are shocked it contains violence and sexuality.

Or where they go on the internet. Or what movies they go see. Or when Huckleberry Fin gets banned from a school's curriculum.

The very existence of the Parents Television Council is evidence that parents would rather not be responsible for the TV their children watch. Instead of limiting the time their children watch TV to when they can be there to monitor it, they'd rather have the "nanny" watch their kids for them.

More and more there are stories all over the country of parents that would rather have society raise their children for them. Because they're too busy. Or overwhelmed. Or tired. Or they "just don't know what to do".

But god forbid we have any corporal punishment! Or sports. Or valedictorians. Because it's just not fair to the other kids, regardless of the effort they put into it.

It's no wonder people overwhelmingly expect everything to be handed to them. It's no wonder they feel entitled. It's no wonder they're quick to sue. It's no wonder they want to take the easy way out. It's no wonder they'd rather mooch off their parents the rest of their lives. THEY WERE RAISED THAT WAY.
Fairly decent rant, but be careful on your spell check there sport, and don't make assumptions based on what the media in this country or internet sites may spoon feed you. Negative reporting is often assumed by an indescriminate viewer/reader to be the norm for a much larger population than is the case in reality.

Main Entry: fin
Function: noun
Def: an external membranous process of an aquatic animal (as a fish) used in propelling or guiding the body


For the verbally challenged:

Main Entry: in·dis·crim·i·nate
Function: adjective
Def: not marked by careful distinction : deficient in discrimination and discernment
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post #32 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Fairly decent rant, but be careful on your spell check there sport, and don't make assumptions based on what the media in this country or internet sites may spoon feed you. Negative reporting is often assumed by an indescriminate viewer/reader to be the norm for a much larger population than is the case in reality.
I don't get it. Are you now denying people are overwhelmingly lazy and want everything handed to them? Are you denying that people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions?

Or, are you doing just what you're warning me against, and using your own anecdotal evidence of how you and your friends raise your kids, and assuming it's the norm for a much larger population?

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post #33 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 12:45 PM
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Some do that, but not everyone, and certainly not the majority. Some people have always tried to get out of taking responsibilty for their actions, that's nothing new or surprising. Since this is a theology forum, look at Adam and Eve as the original example of shirking responsibility. Adam blamed Eve for making him eat of the forbidden fruit, while Eve blamed the serpent for making her eat of it first. Since they were the only two humans in the world at that time, you could say in that case that the majority of people (or actually all of the people) blamed others instead of taking responsibilty for their own actions, and be 100% correct. They did not, however, continue that manner of behavior as an ongoing lifestyle.

I prefer to see the glass as half full, rather than half empty, until proven otherwise. Freeloading kids, who do exist in significant number, are however not representative of the majority, at least not yet. All I have to do is walk into any retail or eating establishment for proof that young Americans are indeed willing to work.
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post #34 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 01:08 PM
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And I agree with you to an extent. I've never suggested no one is willing to work, or take responsibility for their own actions.

Honestly, we cannot know which group makes up the majority. We can only base our conclusions on the evidence we are given. I'd probably be better off not using "minority" and "majority", as I cannot know for certain. I won't change my past statements, but I will from this point use "many" instead, if we should continue this debate.

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post #35 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 01:20 PM
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I think we are saying similar things to a point....but just to clarify.. we are nowhere NEAR 400,000,000 poulation..... last census put us at 301,139,947....

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/us.html

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post #36 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
I think we are saying similar things to a point....but just to clarify.. we are nowhere NEAR 400,000,000 poulation..... last census put us at 301,139,947....

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/us.html
My bad, I thought I'd read it was over 330 million in the 2000 census. Not sure where I got that number though.

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Last edited by DarkWolf; 12-13-2007 at 02:17 PM.
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post #37 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
And I agree with you to an extent. I've never suggested no one is willing to work, or take responsibility for their own actions.

Honestly, we cannot know which group makes up the majority. We can only base our conclusions on the evidence we are given. I'd probably be better off not using "minority" and "majority", as I cannot know for certain. I won't change my past statements, but I will from this point use "many" instead, if we should continue this debate.
I agree completely with many.....too many actually.
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post #38 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I agree completely with many.....too many actually.
On that, we agree completely

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post #39 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Young Americans are also turning away from getting a job and supporting themselves in record numbers, opting instead to sponge off Mommy and Daddy. Is that because of someone else too?
We can be thankful for that.

Consider what it does for the entry level job market.

Not to mention commuter traffic.

And then there is the personal enjoyment you get when you lay off some dingbat "single parent" who is supporting 3-4 30+ Year old "children".

"But I have a family to feed!"

"Your family consistsof 3 adults in their late 20s and a dozen cats"

"You just don't like cats"

"That's not true, if cooked right I like them very much"

"I'm going to HR!"

"Don't bother, they are on their way to see you now."

-click-
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post #40 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 03:13 PM
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I like you example Casper.

I am currently in a case with the Texas Employment Commision because of an 80 year old employee who quit. She claims I owe her for processing 2204# of raw material but I have invoices which show I only bought 1200# of raw material and 400# of it was still in the wharehouse when she came for her check!

She has to take care of her family. Her kids are almost my Mom's age!

The previous owner never checked her work.

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post #41 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf
People often confuse religion with faith. While they have some overlap, religion is not faith.
What? I don't know how how you mean that. I guess you're right to a certain degree. Faith is the disease that infects the body by means of religion. Is this what you mean?

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It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #42 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 04:28 PM
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You have that completely backwards. One does not need religion to have faith. Religion, at least in the case of Christianity, is a part of ones faith and serves no purpose without the faith the precedes it.

Do you consider the Islamic faith a disease that has infected the bodies of your Iranian forebears by the way?
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post #43 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 09:36 AM
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Religion is a meme, not a disease.

Faith is a conclusion, based on memes.
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post #44 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Religion is a meme, not a disease.

Faith is a conclusion, based on memes.
I would disagree. I have known many that have much faith while not having religion. I guess then one must ask "what is religion". For instance, I am a Christian, yet I am not religious. I know that I cannot get closer to Heaven by jumping through man made religious hoops. Being dunked and eating bread will not get you closer to the Father. Christians are saved through faith alone, and NOTHING else. On the other side of the coin..we ALL know people that are very religious, and have no faith at all. In fact, we all know people that are very religious, and may not even be Christians at all while claiming to be, relying on attendance numbers to save them in the end.

Scripture is not a religion, and one can come to faith through scripture alone.

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post #45 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
What? I don't know how how you mean that. I guess you're right to a certain degree. Faith is the disease that infects the body by means of religion. Is this what you mean?
Faith is a belief, despite any evidence, that something is true (ie: belief in God).

Religion is an organized set of rules and practices, generally based around a particular faith (or belief).

They often interweave, but they are not the same. Faith exists without religion, but religion typically cannot exist without faith.

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post #46 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
Christians are saved through faith alone, and NOTHING else.
Can you give the bible verse and bible translation please?

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post #47 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Religion is a meme, not a disease.

Faith is a conclusion, based on memes.
I like it...

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #48 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashstang04
I would disagree. I have known many that have much faith while not having religion. I guess then one must ask "what is religion". For instance, I am a Christian, yet I am not religious. I know that I cannot get closer to Heaven by jumping through man made religious hoops. Being dunked and eating bread will not get you closer to the Father. Christians are saved through faith alone, and NOTHING else. On the other side of the coin..we ALL know people that are very religious, and have no faith at all. In fact, we all know people that are very religious, and may not even be Christians at all while claiming to be, relying on attendance numbers to save them in the end.

Scripture is not a religion, and one can come to faith through scripture alone.
There are many memes, religious memes are just one category. And you have to seriously limit the definition of religion to fit your stance that you "have faith without religion".

I think I know what you meant, that you have a faith based on something other than an organized structure, but that isn't the only form religion can take. Nor is your faith the only form that faith can take.

I have to ask, how do you claim to know the minds of those with whom you disagree? Claiming that someone is religious without faith puts you in the Karnack category. Perhaps they have faith that their stance is valid?
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post #49 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain_Mach1
Can you give the bible verse and bible translation please?


Are you comfortable with KJV? I would assume that you are:


“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

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post #50 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
There are many memes, religious memes are just one category. And you have to seriously limit the definition of religion to fit your stance that you "have faith without religion".

I think I know what you meant, that you have a faith based on something other than an organized structure, but that isn't the only form religion can take. Nor is your faith the only form that faith can take.

I have to ask, how do you claim to know the minds of those with whom you disagree? Claiming that someone is religious without faith puts you in the Karnack category. Perhaps they have faith that their stance is valid?
First you would have to clarify your question. Which people are you talking about that I disagree with? I agree with many peoples "religious beliefs" in the Christian world. I am not mind reading by any means. There are many who think that they are saved by works. While it's true that "faith without works is dead", there can be faith with NO works, just as there can be works without faith.

In short, I can believe the same things that some people can, yet if they have not made a valid profession of faith, then they are not and never have been Christian. This is seen many times in people that have been brought up in the church and do what they have been "taught" because their parents did, and never receive Christ. It's akin to wearing a fireman jacket and hat....you may look the part, but you aren't equipped to fight any fires.

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