Atheism: Is there no evidence that God exists? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Atheism: Is there no evidence that God exists?

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 09:05 AM
He's no good to me dead.
 
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Is that you in the video?
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 11:07 AM
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
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Good vid, but it supposes that atheist will think and argue rational points, when they usually do not.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 11:11 AM
not exclude
 
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He doesn't seem to understand evolutionary pressures well enough to apply it appropriately. I can correctly state that morality may not originate from a god and that it is an evolutionary benefit to the survival of the species. He tries to say that in doing so I admit that evolution is not the source because something must change to be a result of evolution.

Two flaws in this: 1) Yes, evolution means change. But not all aspects of life change and some change across a species at different rates. When something standard remains beneficial to the species, it is going to have little to no selective pressure for the inherent action (moral) to change.
2) Rarely is killing young offspring going to be beneficial to the survival of a species. The only cases in the animal kingdom where you will see infanticide is when it is to focus rearing energy toward the dominant males' genepool. Therefore, little reason to see it change across the species period.

The spin on trying to tell someone that they think it is okay to torture infants is sad and just that, a spin. As I mentioned earlier, this "moral" is standard within the human species as there have been no instances for us, as a species, where hindering the developement of our offspring would be beneficial.

However, as I was doing earlier, you can apply it across the animal kingdom in showing that this "moral" is not standard when you have species committing infanticide.

Now, undoubtedly Theists are going to have problems with this analogy because most do not believe that God gave morality to animals thus separating humans. They will further disagree that morality could ever be a natural occurence.

Nevertheless, all this leads him to an incorrect summation in his "Atheist syllogism" simply because he does not better understand the mechanisms he is arguing.

A better one:
I don't believe in a god because there is no evidence one exists. Morals are not adequate evidence as there are other explanations for their existence with their own supporting evidence.

Last edited by exlude; 11-29-2007 at 11:30 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 12:59 PM
lol, this place sucks now
 
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First the dolphins, now this guy in a dark garage with a video camera.




Do all religions believe in the same god?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:12 PM
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His argument assume moral universalism. However, his argument disregards moral relativism. Is it not his belief in God, that is linked to his moral universalism views? Isn't this video and example of "begging the question"?


I don't know the philosophical arguments. However, I disagree with the contention that it is always immoral to torture little children.

What does he mean by torture anyway? The strait definition:

Torture
1 a: anguish of body or mind : agony b: something that causes agony or pain
2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining


According to this whippings and spankings are a form of torture.

How about killing or the methods used to kill children? The USA kills kids in war. Maybe not by design, but it happens often enough and can be justified. How about things designed to kill, but often just damage. Fire bombing, napalm, cluster bombs, land mines, and nuclear radiation poisoning all come to mind. I think itís fair to say these methods can amount to torture. In principle, all of these actions are often consider right behavior under certain conditions, even when they affect little children. This is just the USA. Dare we look at history throughout the world?

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
His argument assume moral universalism. However, his argument disregards moral relativism. Is it not his belief in God, that is linked to his moral universalism views? Isn't this video and example of "begging the question"?


I don't know the philosophical arguments. However, I disagree with the contention that it is always immoral to torture little children.

What does he mean by torture anyway? The strait definition:

Torture
1 a: anguish of body or mind : agony b: something that causes agony or pain
2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining


According to this whippings and spankings are a form of torture.

How about killing or the methods used to kill children? The USA kills kids in war. Maybe not by design, but it happens often enough and can be justified. How about things designed to kill, but often just damage. Fire bombing, napalm, cluster bombs, land mines, and nuclear radiation poisoning all come to mind. I think itís fair to say these methods can amount to torture. In principle, all of these actions are often consider right behavior under certain conditions, even when they affect little children. This is just the USA. Dare we look at history throughout the world?
for the fun of it was his expression, for the fun of it...
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:37 PM
lol, this place sucks now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang
for the fun of it was his expression, for the fun of it...

can you answer my question please?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockwrkOrangeS4
First the dolphins, now this guy in a dark garage with a video camera.




Do all religions believe in the same god?
no
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:55 PM
lol, this place sucks now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillystang
no
so all the other religions that don't believe in the same god as you also feel that it is okay to torture children for the fun of it?
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 04:59 PM
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The guys a quack. His arguments were doomed as soon as tortured babies rolled off his tongue.

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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockwrkOrangeS4
so all the other religions that don't believe in the same god as you also feel that it is okay to torture children for the fun of it?

No, the way I see it is ideas are shared....look at the Roman empire for example it was made up of several diferent continents...several religions.
When you hear truth you recognize it as truth.

But more for me, the Bible is clear that all Gods children will know his commandment b/c he has written them on our heart as if they were stone tablets...
This is why when you steal...you "know" your doing something wrong...then you choose to steal etc..
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockwrkOrangeS4
so all the other religions that don't believe in the same god as you also feel that it is okay to torture children for the fun of it?
I don't follow your logic
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