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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thinking out loud.

I was just stopping by the forum and was reading a few threads and wanted to share some thoughts which I am sure several of you won't care about but this is more for me then you.

I hear people talk about how they use to be "Christianís" and how some church or experience "burned" them and they found the enlightened path to not believing etc...
To that I say if I am mad at my brother b/c he made some mistake and hurt me but I have a family reunion coming up I still go... I go because I want to see my father, I don't hold my whole family accountable for my brothers mistake and I am not foolish enough to think that my brother is incapable of making mistakes...after all he is a man.
Side point if I didn't go..the only person I am hurting by not going is myself...

Where man isinvolved there will be problems, but place the blame where it belongs.

An other thing I hear a lot of is how Christians are wasting their life or time by following the bible/going to church etc...but I have to disagree with this completely.
In fact I can't even follow this line of thinking...unless we start talking about the westboro Baptist church...but then that just goes to my first point.

How can a message of peace, kindness etc be construed as a wasting your life...we all know the Christ message, and regardless of if you believe he was God etc how can you even attempt to argue his words...or that of the Ten Commandments...
The point being the message is completely solid while the practice of the message is flawed...
just like Mohamed Gandi said..."I like their Christ, and I donít like their Christians"
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
I was just stopping by the forum and was reading a few threads and wanted to share some thoughts which I am sure several of you won't care about but this is more for me then you.

I hear people talk about how they use to be "Christianís" and how some church or experience "burned" them and they found the enlightened path to not believing etc...
To that I say if I am mad at my brother b/c he made some mistake and hurt me but I have a family reunion coming up I still go... I go because I want to see my father, I don't hold my whole family accountable for my brothers mistake and I am not foolish enough to think that my brother is incapable of making mistakes...after all he is a man.
Side point if I didn't go..the only person I am hurting by not going is myself...

Where man isinvolved there will be problems, but place the blame where it belongs.

An other thing I hear a lot of is how Christians are wasting their life or time by following the bible/going to church etc...but I have to disagree with this completely.
In fact I can't even follow this line of thinking...unless we start talking about the westboro Baptist church...but then that just goes to my first point.

How can a message of peace, kindness etc be construed as a wasting your life...we all know the Christ message, and regardless of if you believe he was God etc how can you even attempt to argue his words...or that of the Ten Commandments...
The point being the message is completely solid while the practice of the message is flawed...
just like Mohamed Gandi said..."I like their Christ, and I donít like their Christians"

I can appreciate what you are saying. One thing to remember is that for some people, as soon as you use the term Christian, your comments fall on deaf ears. Had you mentioned Buddhism or Hinduism and their creeds, which are similar as far as being "peaceful" goes, instead of Christianity, then you would probably get people sympathizing with your point. By design, the world is against Christians, and moving that way faster all the time. My point is the hate for Christianity is based in irrationality. (mahatma gandhi btw)

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
I can appreciate what you are saying. One thing to remember is that for some people, as soon as you use the term Christian, your comments fall on deaf ears. Had you mentioned Buddhism or Hinduism and their creeds, which are similar as far as being "peaceful" goes, instead of Christianity, then you would probably get people sympathizing with your point. By design, the world is against Christians, and moving that way faster all the time. My point is the hate for Christianity is based in irrationality. (mahatma gandhi btw)

Thanks for the correction, didn't think I had that right...oops.

I agree with you about the world being against Christians, but to take it further it is against man.
Men were designed to be cultivators, the Bible is clear that all which man is to cultivate will rise up against him...including his fellow man.

A side point to this, I feel one of the main issues with the world today is that men are cultivating all the wrong things...or in some cases nothing at all...they don't even know what it means to be a man or how that is played out.
Instead of cultivating a relationship with God, a women, a family we have filled it with sports, video games, porn, booze, alcohol etc...

I have heard the old saying "the greatest trick the devil every pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" I say bullshit.

There is so much evil it is clear the devil (what ever that is to you) is here...his greatest trick IMO is keeping you just happy enough never to do anything with your life or to keep you just sad enough so you don't take action within your life...they lead to the same place...a numbing existence somewhere b/w joy and pain....

Last edited by SVT93Style; 11-25-2007 at 07:59 PM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
Thanks for the correction, didn't think I had that right...oops.

I agree with you about the world being against Christians, but to take it further it is against man.
Men were designed to be cultivators, the Bible is clear that all which man is to cultivate will rise up against him...including his fellow man.

A side point to this, I feel one of the main issues with the world today is that men are cultivating all the wrong things...or in some cases nothing at all...they don't even know what it means to be a man or how that is played out.
Instead of cultivating a relationship with God, a women, a family we have filled it with sports, video games, porn, booze, alcohol etc...

I have heard the old saying "the greatest trick the devil every pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" I say bullshit.

There is so much evil it is clear the devil (what ever that is to you) is here...his greatest trick IMO is keeping you just happy enough never to do anything with your life or to keep you just sad enough so you don't take action within your life...they lead to the same place...a numbing existence somewhere b/w joy and pain....

Those are good insights, especially the part about cultivation, and being numb. It's hard work taking action and "cultivating". It is much easier to do the opposite and become a spiritual vegetable. Taking action makes us look at ourselves, and that is what people don't like. It gets even easier when you have people agree with your defense of a dead lifestyle. Misery loves company, even if they haven't figured out that they are miserable yet.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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An other thought

Sorry for the post but I feel I have been going thru what is called the dark night of the soul...for sometime know and I guess I am coming to some conclusions and wanted to share to stimulate further thought.

I hear alot about proof in regards to geology, history, archeology etc...and it all seems to boil down to the same thing...faith. IMO both parties are relying on the exact same things to come to 2 conclusions...IMO you have to have more faith not to believe in a GOD, religion aside, given all the evidence.
But what I feel is left out and the two camps can't see eye to eye on is the life changing experiences of there faith...both side have them but they play out much differently.

The atheist comes to the conclusion there is no God and a feeling of setting themselves free is reached.
Where as the Christian comes to the conclusion there is a God and a feeling of being set free follows.
How do we explain these life changes, the alcoholic who has lived his whole life that way and the "finds" God to never drink again and becomes a real man and captures his life back?
I feel these instances are the most important evidence of all...

I guess what I am saying is I have read all the books, studied science, the bible, been on message board, debated friends and enemies over coffee and what if all boils down to is personal experiences...
How can one explain the "I was lost but now am found"
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
. Misery loves company, even if they haven't figured out that they are miserable yet.
I love this.

And is fits my point exactly.

I had figured out I was miserable had an life changing experience...was taken to church...the Village in highland village...was going and my life changed for ever....it was like I could no longer continue in life the way I was b/c...for lack of being a cliche, my eyes where open...I could see all the things in my life which I was cultivating and how I was the only one responsible for my own situation and life issues not God...all things have an equal and opposite reaction...and they sure did.

Then I had a falling out, which is where I kind of have been for a long time...I always still believed but was challenging everything etc...taking a step back...and to be honest there were times I wish I had never found the Village or had my life changing experience...just like the part in The Matrix when the guy is eating the steak...and says "Ignorance is bliss"....I wished I could go back...turn of the lights so to speak.

So here I am and I realize, you will never have all the answers but the ones Christ give seem to me the best around and ring truth not only in my mind but my heart ase well.

I don't like the Church so to speak, and Christianity has a lot of cleaning up to do IMO...but Christ didn't come to start a religion but rather to set us free from one..I think the best thing to do is not get caught up in what man is doing in regards to God but focus rather on God...
The church is inherintly flawed by being run by man...which goes into my family reunion example...
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:20 PM
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Well, if there were an answer to that there would be no more atheist. From a Godly perspective, it is more important to Him that one believes "by faith", although I can see your point about so much evidence. Non believers will dismiss life changing events after salvation as self hypnosis. If we had to have him drop down from the sky and walk among us (again) to believe, then that belief would not mean very much. If you have physical verification of His existence, then you could never fully allow Him to work in your life, because you could never fully trust that He would. It's like missing the first day of physics in college....you just build on what you have learned in the beginning, so if you miss the first point (His existence)..you have missed it all.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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How do you define faith?
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Also I think this sum's things up....

"Until we face our spiritual inadequacy, we are shutting our eyes to reality, like dungeon dwellers recoiling from sunlight; like burns victims smashing mirrors. (John 3:19) Christians are very ordinary people who dared confront the spiritual need the rest of us fearfully suppress. Through Jesus they somehow found the courage to push against the torrent of popular opinion and say good-bye to their favorite sins and the stranglehold of almost life-long habits. They put their life on the line and to their surprise found the warm presence of God."
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT93Style
How do you define faith?

it's not how I do, but how does God

Hebrews 11:1 "Now FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things unseen."

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flashstang04
it's not how I do, but how does God

Hebrews 11:1 "Now FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things unseen."

Thanks for that, I was not familar with that passage although I am sure I have read it.

From that I say that the substance is what fuels the hope...sure we can hope for things but when these hopes are not filled and remain empty they fade but with faith in God they are filled...gradually in my case....thru my life experience, personal struggles and gains, my studies all this is the substance to my faith....which is ever changing and can be filled and spilled.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT93Style
Thanks for that, I was not familar with that passage although I am sure I have read it.

From that I say that the substance is what fuels the hope...sure we can hope for things but when these hopes are not filled and remain empty they fade but with faith in God they are filled...gradually in my case....thru my life experience, personal struggles and gains, my studies all this is the substance to my faith....which is ever changing and can be filled and spilled.

right

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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gradually in my case....thru my life experience, personal struggles and gains, my studies all this is the substance to my faith....which is ever changing and can be filled and spilled.
On a side note, the above is what I feel the majority of Christians are missing...they only go off of what other say or tell them...very closed minded.

Nothing pisses my off more then the Christian who sticks his fingers in his or her ears while going bla bla bla bla while someone is trying to bring up something which might challenge their beliefs..(not saying I have never done this )

I feel being open minded and challenging your own beliefs is what everyone should do...always, I truly believe this is where true spiritual growth occurs..
and in my experience I keep ending up in his hands...
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-25-2007, 09:41 PM
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The more someone challenges you ..the more you have to study and research the word. This is a good thing.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." --2 Tim. 2:15.

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