Originally Posted by Phillystang
Are you implying that that is a foreign concept or something that I made up?
1. Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
2. Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
3. Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
4. Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
I can't believe I'm responding to you, but I seem to have forgotten to share the very basis of where the Bible teaches free will and why God has to allow us to choose...
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion
over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth
, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Mankind has complete, 100% DOMINION over the earth and everything on it. Do you know what dominion means? Let's see what the dictionary says:
1. the power or right
of governing and controlling
; sovereign authority
2. rule; control; domination
3. a territory, usually of considerable size, in which a single rulership holds sway
4. lands or domains subject to sovereignty or control
MANKIND has sovereign control over the earth and everything on it. If you haven't noticed, mankind
is on the earth, and we have complete control over ourselves
too! We are sovereign!!
Sovereignty means free will
with no one else controlling you
. God does not control us, nor has He ever from the beginning of the creation!
When we had a perfect nature free of sin in the beginning, we were ruling the earth with a nature of good. When Satan lied to us and we bought it, we corrupted ourselves and the entire earth and everything in it with sin. Your leader says everything about you. Since we were the leader of everything on earth and earth itself, our sin went through us and into everything else. ALL of the earth was corrupted by sin. And every person born after Adam and Eve was born into the sin nature as well. We ruled the earth with the sin nature. Satan's nature is the sin nature. Notice the wording Satan uses in this verse:
And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain
and its glory; for it has been handed over to me
, and I give it to whomever I wish."
HANDED OVER to Satan. HANDED. How? Through the sin nature. We rule the earth through Satan's sin nature now. Before Jesus, the Jews were the saints of the Old Testament. David said that he knew his Savior and Redeemer as well as Job, and Job's the first book of the Bible ever put down on paper, probably within the first 400 years after the flood. Even Job knew he had a Redeemer in heaven.
The one way to be saved has always been to obey God. The one way to be condemned has always been to rebel against God (blaspheme the gift of the Holy Spirit). We're told the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance to come. We're told that David had the Holy Spirit come on him at a fairly young age when Samuel prophesied that David would be king. You and David are not dissimilar. You both have the Holy Spirit. You both know you have a Redeemer. David was sanctified by God without knowing Jesus, but understood that part of God was the savior. He may or may not have known Jesus' name, because Jesus' name in Hebrew is Yeshuwah, which means salvation from God, or God's salvation or "My (God's) salvation." We see Yeshuwah (Strong's #3444) all throughout the Psalms and other Old Testament books. You'd be surprized how you can swap out "my salvation" for Jesus' name and it works perfectly. So, we're not entirely sure if David did or didn't know who Jesus was. But we do know this...he had salvation before the cross, and he always had dominion over the earth as a man.
Jesus didn't JUST come to die for our sins. Jesus came to get control of the earth. Jesus came as a sinless man, and free of sin, he would've lived forever, because we're told sin causes death. But Satan had to get the king off the earth. So Satan kills Jesus, which violated the law of sin and death. This gave Jesus full ownership of all things on heaven and earth:
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."
So, the question is this: We know we had free will (dominion) in the physical realm to begin with, but when Jesus died and became the ultimate authority over all things, did He suddenly take away our free will and start forcing us to be saved? But I thought God never changed? Did He change His mind about free will and how to be saved?
Ahhhhh...but wait. Jesus is ruling in His heavenly kingdom right now, and has appointed a time for His return to the physical world to take control again. But that time has not yet come.
[ The Seventh Trumpet--Christ's Reign Foreseen ] Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, " The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever
Notice the wording: HAS BECOME the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ. Has become implies that it is not yet His kingdom. In other words, it's our kingdom still. He's still allowing us dominion (free will) to rule the earth as we please. Besides, I wouldn't blame this horrible world on Him anyway. Obviously, He's not ruling yet. Sure, He works behind the scenes in the spiritual realm and even sometimes when people pray, He will work in the physical realm. But He is working at our request, because we still have dominion. When we become Christians we are GIVEN Christ's authority over all things. But Christ Himself isn't ruling yet.
Christ is patient and wants to give everything time to come to Him. That's why He chose not to take control over the earth for another 2,000+ years after He died.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
We have to strengthen our hearts, because sinful man still rules this earth. And sinful men are against us which have a nature contrary to the sin nature. Satan wants to seduce us with the ways of the world to appeal to our sin nature. But that's not who we really are, now. But he sure wants us to believe and operate under that deception, though.
Free will has been present since the beginning according to Genesis 1:26. You can deny the Bible all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that God made this earth and gave it to us fully and completely. We own the physical realm, period, end of story. I'm not willing to just throw out what the Bible says in order to be "right" about my view. I'll stick with the truth of what it says, and it says we have dominion (free will) over the earth.