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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2007, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Does your Pastor?

Does your pastor have a high view of God? Does it show forth in his teaching?

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2007, 09:45 PM
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I watched it and then I felt like a festering cesspool of a flesh bag. So I watched part 2.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2007, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Part 2
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 03:13 PM
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This is a general statement, and not pointed at anyone in particular. I think a better question is: Do you take your doctrinal beliefs from your pastor or do you trust the Holy Spirit to discern truth to you while reading the Word of God? I think too many people today don't have make time or have the desire to study the Bible anymore, and so they just go to church once or twice a week and trust that the pastor has a perfect belief in the scriptures. Man would rather believe a man in a pulpit rather than trust the Holy Spirit inside of them to discern truth in the Word of God. That's a big problem since man is fallible.

The guy in the video says, "Jesus is not your buddy, and you and Jesus do not have your own thing going. He is God." I think that's an incredibly judgemental, arrogant statement said out of a lack of experience with the presence of the Lord. Just because this guy may not have a personal relationship as a friend of Jesus doesn't mean others don't. This guy is extremely prideful. He says he'd have to teach you for three months before he told you about the love of God in the Bible. How arrogant is that? We can't understand God's love unless this guy explains who God is for three months? How sad...

I would suspect this guy assumes no one on this planet has ever seen Jesus in person before too. I would also suspect that this guy assumes God, Jesus nor the Holy Spirit ever speaks to anyone audibly either. My wife, my mother and a few other people I know, have all had God speak to them audibly at one time...some more than others. I know people who have seen Jesus just like the disciples saw Him after He rose from the dead. Has something changed since then? No...just our hearts and perception of the possible and impossible. Everyone I know that's met Jesus in person has described Him EXACTLY the same way: "He is the kindest, happiest, most wonderful person I've ever met. No one can hold a candle to Him."

People with Multiple Personality Disorder have multiple personalities, all of which live in the spiritual realm and see the exact same things: angels, demons, false Jesuses, the real Jesus and the water of life. There are hundreds of accounts, and I have many personal accounts of this with multiples. I even have lots of chat logs with multiples to prove this. There is a book written about this subject that proves this, hands down. I've confirmed everything in His book, and used His methods (which do not include prompting people to see things) to help multiples.

Just because this guy hasn't had God talk to him, or seen Him before, doesn't mean that's the way it is for everyone. Sorry, but I don't care for his arrogance.

- Brian
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 03:28 PM
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There's a verse in the Old Testament that says something like, "They call me master, but you will call me husband" or "friend," depending on the translation. So, even in the Old Testament we are told that in the future, we will call Jesus our friend/husband. We are literally the bride of Christ. We're Christ's girlfriend. LOL

Don't you think that makes you Christ's friend? I don't know what the heck this preacher is talking about when he says Jesus isn't your "buddy," meaning "your friend."

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC
This is a general statement, and not pointed at anyone in particular. I think a better question is: Do you take your doctrinal beliefs from your pastor or do you trust the Holy Spirit to discern truth to you while reading the Word of God?
We should just do away with Pastors then, right?

Ephesians 4
10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

Pastors are one of the means in which God speaks through in caring for the flock and teaching from His Word. They have great influence over their flock and are under heavier responsibility in their position watching over the flock.

James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strict

The point was, the degree of honor for God that people have is often related to the degree that their Pastor has.

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Don't you think that makes you Christ's friend? I don't know what the heck this preacher is talking about when he says Jesus isn't your "buddy," meaning "your friend."
If you listened to all of it you would see his reference to God as heavenly Father. His point is that most "Christians" have never thought of God as nothing more than their buddy. There is no sense of the awesomeness and awe of God in most eyes. There is not a fear of God in them in the past or present. There god is just a nice Santa Claus in the sky, a cosmic Mr. Rogers if you will.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 09:07 PM
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I think the preacher's style is important for the context. The context being serious about what God is and how humble we all should be in His presence. That's the way I took it. When I pondered the purity of God during Pt 1 I realized why heaven and earth are fled away from His throne. He can only see us because Jesus blood (the Love) is covering us. God the Father is a Consuming Fire. To look at Him would absolutely destroy us. We are sinners. I have a relationship with Christ, who is also part of God. It is through Christ that I am reconciled. But even still, the Father part of God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. I know the only reason we can be reconciled to God is because He put on a flesh suit and undeservingly died in our place. Only God is good. Only God could pay the price by dying. But that also shows His love. He didn't send an angel to die on the cross...NO! He took it personally...HE TOOK IT PERSONALLY. That is the Name above ALL Names. He, being Higher and Mightier than all, died for lowly old me.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastback
I think the preacher's style is important for the context. The context being serious about what God is and how humble we all should be in His presence. That's the way I took it. When I pondered the purity of God during Pt 1 I realized why heaven and earth are fled away from His throne. He can only see us because Jesus blood (the Love) is covering us. God the Father is a Consuming Fire. To look at Him would absolutely destroy us. We are sinners. I have a relationship with Christ, who is also part of God. It is through Christ that I am reconciled. But even still, the Father part of God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. I know the only reason we can be reconciled to God is because He put on a flesh suit and undeservingly died in our place. Only God is good. Only God could pay the price by dying. But that also shows His love. He didn't send an angel to die on the cross...NO! He took it personally...HE TOOK IT PERSONALLY. That is the Name above ALL Names. He, being Higher and Mightier than all, died for lowly old me.
Agree,

When we see how high and pure and holy God is, we see that we are unclean and in need of salvation.

The sound of the jailer's keys only sound sweet when a man is locked up in a dungeon with no way out and helpless.

Most evangelism today is all about the "good news" without really letting people know the seriousness of the bad news and their offense against God. A person that doesn't see themselve as vile and disgusting in God's sight can never truly appreciate what God has done through Christ in dying for us while we were yet sinners.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
Agree,

When we see how high and pure and holy God is, we see that we are unclean and in need of salvation.

The sound of the jailer's keys only sound sweet when a man is locked up in a dungeon with no way out and helpless.

Most evangelism today is all about the "good news" without really letting people know the seriousness of the bad news and their offense against God. A person that doesn't see themselve as vile and disgusting in God's sight can never truly appreciate what God has done through Christ in dying for us while we were yet sinners.
Yeah, I beat on my chest after that video... help me God a sinner!
That's a great prayer to have. Fills you up with the Good Stuff. I think "me and Jesus got our own thing going" is a reference to being deceived about living a sinful lifestyle or such. Because Jesus is our Friend and Love , He's not going to have our "own thing" outside the Word... see what I mean?
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2007, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrianC
I think that's an incredibly judgemental, arrogant statement said out of a lack of experience with the presence of the Lord. Just because this guy may not have a personal relationship as a friend of Jesus doesn't mean others don't.
Still think so?

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastback
Yeah, I beat on my chest after that video... help me God a sinner!
That's a great prayer to have. Fills you up with the Good Stuff. I think "me and Jesus got our own thing going" is a reference to being deceived about living a sinful lifestyle or such. Because Jesus is our Friend and Love , He's not going to have our "own thing" outside the Word... see what I mean?
Just because you don't believe or experience your "own thing" with Jesus outside of the Bible doesn't mean that others don't, though.

Have you ever researched the prophetic gift before? If someone's gift is of prophecy, then they very much have the potential to have Jesus come to them in the flesh and speak to them or the Holy Spirit talk to them audibly. There's a guy named Graham Cooke: www.grahamcooke.com

He's a modern day prophet. Not the kind that predicts the future. The kind that has a relationship with God like the prophets of the Old Testament. The kind that God will speak through to congregations. The prophets in the Old Testament were always warning the Jews about coming destruction, so yes, they had to prophecy about a doom and gloom future. But Jesus is coming and doom and gloom is not our future. So, you get a more loving message, because God is pleased with His people accepting His son. His wrath is on the world on the last day, not on us. God speaks kindly to His people, urging them to not be distracted on their journey into the nature of God. He wants us to really know Him first. Knowing who God is and what His nature truly is is one of the most important things you'll ever learn, and should be the foundation of your belief and your life.

I'm not sure that you can't ask God for the gift of prophecy or if He just chooses people. Maybe if you ask for it, it means He's chosen you? I don't know. Not sure how that works just yet. Either way, though, my wife has also known a guy that had the gift of prophecy, and God spoke to this man audibly too. There are times when God would hide Himself and only speak in the spiritual realm and could only be heard through the heart/spirit. But there are times of manifestation where they hear God audibly. David spoke of these different times in the Psalms. He manifests Himself in the physical realm to teach, but He's so distracting that He's got to hide Himself so you can learn what He's taught you and really grab hold of deep truths. He has to be hidden so He's not a distraction. Look at the disciples; they had no clue what was going on, even though He was telling them flat out, "I'm going to be killed soon. Get ready for it. I tell you this ahead of time so when you see it, you'll remember I said it and you'll believe me." They still didn't understand! But once He was gone, they started remembering and understanding everything. There's purpose in all of the ways He does things.

Anyway, check out Graham Cooke. He doesn't have churches of his own. He's on the ministry team at The Mission church in Vacaville, CA. He has sort of his own ministry of helping people around the world and speaking & teaching. He takes no salary from anyone, but says that instead he loves praying in his money and trusting God to provide. He said when he was first exploring his boundries with God, he asked, "So, can I ask for a million dollars?" God says, "Sure...but I'll ask you to give it away." So Graham asks, "If I ask for 10 million dollars, can I keep a million?" God says, "Yeah, that's fine." Then Graham says, "Today, it's 10 years later and I'm happy to anounce that I've given away 10 million dollars." In other words, God provided Graham a little over a million dollars a year for 10 years without any job or anything, and Graham gave away 10 million and kept one million ($100,000 a year). I think he said you can check his tax records if you like, or something to that effect. lol

He preaches that same type of function of God too. He rarely talks about money, though. He's usually talking about blessings and love and how God is relentlessly kind to him. He says that it's God's intention to overfill us with love and blessings so that we have so much we have to give it away to others. The money was sort of a reflection of that, and showed God that Graham trusted God completely with his survival. That's total trust in God. I've heard others who have this gift of giving (or something like that). God would tell them to give everything they have away to someone (like a widow or whomever). They'd wrestle with it for a while then finally go ahead and do it. One guy did this...gave away something like $25,000 of his stuff, everything he owned. 5 days later, a guy walks up and says, "I don't know why, but God wants me to give you $50,000 dollars." Now, those guys are of a completely different ministry than Graham Cooke. But the stories are interesting from the givers. I'd love to be able to give like that. It'd be awesome. I think my new goal is to start trying to give more and more, because we can't outgive God. I want to get to the point where God's relentlessly blessing my family so I no longer worry about money anymore and I can give away money constantly to help others. That'd be awesome.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
We should just do away with Pastors then, right?
Hey, I never said anything of the sort. The Bible says how will the people know if a preacher is not sent to teach them? Pastors are just fine. But I think there are tons of pastors out there that are knowledgeable in scripture, and have no clue about how the relationship with God really works. And I think there are a lot of great pastors out there that really do understand that the relationship with God is the most important thing to upkeep first and foremost, and second is the knowledge.

Many people substitute knowledge for the relationship, as if knowledge makes them more holy or more righteous than others. But it's the relationship that matters most. Not the knowledge. God will provide the knowledge THROUGH the relationship when you study. But God most desires a personal relationship. I think a lot of pastors don't have a proper relationship with God. And I think many do. Some are called to be pastors, and others called themselves to be pastors.

I think a lot of pastors learn from what's passed down to them instead of trusting God to discern truth to them. That's dangerous. Man is fallible, as are their doctrines. God can speak to us through men, but we are to always go to the source for truth and understand, and the source is the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. The Holy Spirit will always discern truth to us and we will find those truths in the Bible.

Maybe I took what that preacher was saying out of context in some parts, but I think the statement about "before I teach you about God's love, I'd have to spend three months teaching you about other things." How arrogant is that statement? As if the Holy Spirit can't teach them?? It's of the utmost importance to each reliance on the Holy Spirit for discerning truth and reading the Bible ourselves instead of getting everything from preachers and blindly trusting that they know what they're talking about. Many do not teach this, unfortunately. I never once needed a pastor to discern truth to me. God saved me completely apart from any pastor, and God's taught me through the Holy Spirit and the Bible for years. He's used pastors to give me ideas, though, too. And then I would research things in the Bible and find out if they were true or not. But I've never needed a pastor to teach me. That's the job of the Holy Spirit and the Bible.

- Brian
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillystang
Agree,

When we see how high and pure and holy God is, we see that we are unclean and in need of salvation.

The sound of the jailer's keys only sound sweet when a man is locked up in a dungeon with no way out and helpless.

Most evangelism today is all about the "good news" without really letting people know the seriousness of the bad news and their offense against God. A person that doesn't see themselve as vile and disgusting in God's sight can never truly appreciate what God has done through Christ in dying for us while we were yet sinners.
AMEN!
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 08:44 AM
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I didn't watch the video but I think I got the idea.

Man is fallable and imperfect, however God gave each of us talents that can be used to magnify his name. From the men that wrote down his inspired word to the people that preach it in the church. In this context...the point is some of us were called to put it into print and some were called to preach it. Hopefully the ones preaching it are using true divine inspiration.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2007, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC
Hey, I never said anything of the sort. The Bible says how will the people know if a preacher is not sent to teach them? Pastors are just fine. But I think there are tons of pastors out there that are knowledgeable in scripture, and have no clue about how the relationship with God really works. And I think there are a lot of great pastors out there that really do understand that the relationship with God is the most important thing to upkeep first and foremost, and second is the knowledge.

Many people substitute knowledge for the relationship, as if knowledge makes them more holy or more righteous than others. But it's the relationship that matters most. Not the knowledge. God will provide the knowledge THROUGH the relationship when you study. But God most desires a personal relationship. I think a lot of pastors don't have a proper relationship with God. And I think many do. Some are called to be pastors, and others called themselves to be pastors.

I think a lot of pastors learn from what's passed down to them instead of trusting God to discern truth to them. That's dangerous. Man is fallible, as are their doctrines. God can speak to us through men, but we are to always go to the source for truth and understand, and the source is the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. The Holy Spirit will always discern truth to us and we will find those truths in the Bible.

Maybe I took what that preacher was saying out of context in some parts, but I think the statement about "before I teach you about God's love, I'd have to spend three months teaching you about other things." How arrogant is that statement? As if the Holy Spirit can't teach them?? It's of the utmost importance to each reliance on the Holy Spirit for discerning truth and reading the Bible ourselves instead of getting everything from preachers and blindly trusting that they know what they're talking about. Many do not teach this, unfortunately. I never once needed a pastor to discern truth to me. God saved me completely apart from any pastor, and God's taught me through the Holy Spirit and the Bible for years. He's used pastors to give me ideas, though, too. And then I would research things in the Bible and find out if they were true or not. But I've never needed a pastor to teach me. That's the job of the Holy Spirit and the Bible.
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