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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2005, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Answer me this

Let me first clarify that I am a practing Christian and a believer. I believe it is natural to have questions that turn into doubts becuase it is in our human nature and our sinful nature as well. Usually these doubts (at least for me) arise out of ignorance and then are later answered by someone that is further in there walk.

If God is ominpresent, all knowing, and all powerful. Why can't he snap his fingers (today or thousands of years ago when the problem first occured) and fix the state of the world and the human conditon?
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 12:27 PM
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(supposedly) because we have free will..........BS answer if you ask me...but that is what I have heard when I asked the same question....sounds like a cop out answer to me........................

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 08:49 PM
 
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I believe God could fix all the worlds problems... and I believe He will eventually. I agree that it is about free will. Letting someone choose between good and good isn't much of a choice is it?

I've been watching others for a long time now. Almost without exception those who are given their every desire turn out poorly. Those who never experience pain, sorrow and punishment, whether deserved or not seem weak to me. This life is a learning process for us. What will you get out of your trials? Will you learn and grow from them and help others during their trials? Or will you simply blame God for the collective choices of the human race?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2005, 04:49 PM
 
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God fixed the world once with a flood. He fixed it again with his son. Asking him to fix the world is a cop out, by us! We must affect change through our ministry to others and our own actions.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-22-2005, 12:54 AM
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ive been ahving this thought lately.... maybe its just not that simple....
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-22-2005, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
God fixed the world once with a flood. He fixed it again with his son. Asking him to fix the world is a cop out, by us! We must affect change through our ministry to others and our own actions.
I don't really see how any of that really fixed anything. In fact, fixing anything by letting it get so bad that the only way out is to destroy it and start all over is kind of irresponsible.

If I had a puppy that I picked out and then proceeded to let it get sick to the point that it died, I would go to jail or at least face some type of fine. If I had a child and then proceeded to neglect it to the point of it getting sick and dying, I would go to jail for a very long time.

If God/Allah/Buddah/Vishnu/Jehova is going to claim responsibility for the world, I think he should at least keep up the yard. How many of us actually asked to be here anyway?

Buying dogs kills.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-22-2005, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDGabe
I believe God could fix all the worlds problems... and I believe He will eventually. I agree that it is about free will. Letting someone choose between good and good isn't much of a choice is it?

I've been watching others for a long time now. Almost without exception those who are given their every desire turn out poorly. Those who never experience pain, sorrow and punishment, whether deserved or not seem weak to me. This life is a learning process for us. What will you get out of your trials? Will you learn and grow from them and help others during their trials? Or will you simply blame God for the collective choices of the human race?
i agree with this....also without pain or sorrow, we would never turn to God for answers or help, we wouldnt need to, so why would we. isn't this ultimately what God wants?

Who needs please when we've got guns?
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 1BAD2K
i agree with this....also without pain or sorrow, we would never turn to God for answers or help, we wouldnt need to, so why would we. isn't this ultimately what God wants?


Yeah. What an attention whore.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-25-2005, 02:02 PM
 
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If I had a puppy that I picked out and then proceeded to let it get sick to the point that it died, I would go to jail or at least face some type of fine. If I had a child and then proceeded to neglect it to the point of it getting sick and dying, I would go to jail for a very long time.
And you don't see any difference between a puppy/child and a human adult? At what point in your life will you no longer need your diaper changed?

Quote:
If God/Allah/Buddah/Vishnu/Jehova is going to claim responsibility for the world, I think he should at least keep up the yard
He gave the yard to us. If a boss gives the responsibility to an employee should he have to babysit to make sure the job gets done? God gave us the ability to get the job done.

Quote:
How many of us actually asked to be here anyway?
If you truly feel that way why haven't you committed suicide?
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 12:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick '91 GT
(supposedly) because we have free will..........BS answer if you ask me...but that is what I have heard when I asked the same question....sounds like a cop out answer to me........................
doesnt sound like a cop out to me. what if all your friends were only your friends when you made everything perfect for them? just like God, you want your friends to love you for you and not what you can do for them.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 12:28 AM
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And you don't see any difference between a puppy/child and a human adult? At what point in your life will you no longer need your diaper changed?
LOL!

I was wondering how long it would take!

Is a life not a life? I don't feel that I have been granted a license to put one form of being before another. And that really isn't the point. The point is that whatever created this world has let it decay into what it has become. The end result is a world that needs it's diaper changed and the only way to change the diaper is a complete destruction...again.


Quote:
He gave the yard to us. If a boss gives the responsibility to an employee should he have to babysit to make sure the job gets done? God gave us the ability to get the job done.
Would you knowingly put imperfect beings in charge of a perfect universe who have proven over and over that they can't seem to get the job done? Let's say that god does exist and that we are actually in charge of something. According to the bible, it will all come to an end anyway. That is like the boss saying to the employees "You know, thanks for working for no salary for so long but the plug will be pulled on all of you no matter what you do or how hard you work."

Quote:
If you truly feel that way why haven't you committed suicide?
First of all, I may not have asked for this life but it was given to me anyway. Therefore, it really isn't my place to end it. The world has a way of working those types of things out without my intervention and I will embrace it when the time comes. In the meantime, I have definately found some things in this system that keep my interest enough to keep me going day to day. The promise to eternal salvation in a world that is destined to crap itself is not one of them.

Buying dogs kills.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 08:35 AM
 
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You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to convey. God put us here to learn/mature with the end result being ruling with Him in eternity. The Bible says He will create a "new heaven and a new earth". There is a reward at the end!

Quote:
The point is that whatever created this world has let it decay into what it has become.
We have let it become what it is. For people to mature they must be given responsibility. Your refusal to accept that responsibility does not change things.

Quote:
Let's say that god does exist...
First of all, I may not have asked for this life but it was given to me anyway. Therefore, it really isn't my place to end it.
So you don't believe God exists but you're using the excuse that you've been given this life to avoid suicide? Seems inconsistent to me...
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 11:06 AM
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Here is the real problem. If God was to snap His fingers and fix everything that is wrong with the world, I would bet that about 85% of the worlds population would yell and scream about how they did not want to be controlled and wanted to be free to do whatever they wanted.

Sure, there would be no more crime, but there would also be no more porn, no more foul language, no more R rated movies, no more sex outside marriage, no more Howard Stern, no more drunkeness or drugs abuse. Is this what the world really wants? I think not.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-08-2005, 07:00 AM
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To be or to become..

In order to become a better world we must make the correct choices. Sure it would be easier to just "snap your fingers" and make it better. The situation would be better but the person would not. We would make the same mistakes and wait for the next snap to come.
You have heard the old saying about If it ain't broke, don't fix it?
Well I am going to modify it some and say that "If someone else is gonna fix it,
what do I care if it gets broke."
If you knew that if you went out drunk driving and killed someone and all it took was a prayer and a finger snap and everything would be better, how many people would be more religious and less responsible.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-08-2005, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
Let me first clarify that I am a practing Christian and a believer. I believe it is natural to have questions that turn into doubts becuase it is in our human nature and our sinful nature as well. Usually these doubts (at least for me) arise out of ignorance and then are later answered by someone that is further in there walk.

If God is ominpresent, all knowing, and all powerful. Why can't he snap his fingers (today or thousands of years ago when the problem first occured) and fix the state of the world and the human conditon?
Having questions is not sinful IMO. God gave you a mind to use. Use it. As others said, free will. I don't believe we're down here as Gods puppets to be controlled by him in whatever way he feels. I think we're on earth as a test.

Don't listen to what I have to say though. I mean, c'mon, my name is poopnut for heavens sake.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-08-2005, 04:10 PM
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The original question is a good one. Here is something I found in 1Cor 13 (NLT)that helps explain a little.

It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete (finite), but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.

God's widsom is infinite. Man's wisdom is finite. I've heard many christians and non christians ponder the condition of the world today (as have I)and wonder why God doesn't do something to stop it. He did, he sent Jesus.

1Cor 18-30
I know very well how foolish the message of the cross sounds to those who are on the road to destruction. But we who are being saved recognize this message as the very power of God. As the Scriptures say,
"I will destroy human wisdom
and discard their most brilliant ideas."

So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made them all look foolish and has shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save all who believe. God's way seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven to prove it is true. And it is foolish to the Greeks because they believe only what agrees with their own wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended, and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense. But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the mighty power of God and the wonderful wisdom of God. This "foolish" plan of God is far wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is far stronger than the greatest of human strength.

Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes, or powerful, or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose those who are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important, so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom. As the Scriptures say,

"The person who wishes to boast
should boast only of what the Lord has done."
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-09-2005, 09:41 AM
 
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The way I think about it is this way....

Lets say you met your wife/husband whatever and when you first met them you held a gun to their head and said love me or you will die. They have a choice to love you or they will die. Without that threat would they have still loved you? If they love you because of the threat, how great is that love? If they love you without the threat, isnt that love greater?
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-09-2005, 09:09 PM
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everything is supposed to be based on faith i guess

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-09-2005, 09:35 PM
 
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i personally believe that we have a free will and God created us for many reasons. but one in particular i believe is that he created to prove that, us(a lesser being)by believing and relying on God (the greatest being) he show satan(a greater being) that the lesser can be much more powerful through the Holy Spirit if we just rely on him...just a thought please dont bash me
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2005, 12:51 AM
 
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I didn't read much of waht's going on. However, I do have my ideas that humans by nature are falible. And having the gift of free will enables the margin of errors to occur to be far larger than things to go as we plan.

Then again, the concept of pre-destination kinda throws things in a loop. Or is it that every choice pre deterines the next set of choices we will be given? Eitehr way, I am pretty content not knowing what will happen. Although knowing that gas prices would sky rocket might have helped me to buy stock in it before the recent boom in the past few years, LOL.

Back to my original words, the free will we are given gives us the choice to get ourselves as individuals, coiuntries, and mankind into binds that might seem impossible to overcome. And we are also given choices to be able to survive and strive on til lthings can be resolved. Life can always be great for everyone, if the world as a whole chose to.

IOW, since I'm tired and my thoguhts are slurred, we got outrselves into a huge mess these days as a world, and it's the our choices as mankind that will be able to get us on the right track again. At least I pray for it to. I don't prey for any one group to win, just that everyone in the world "wins" and there to be no wars that cause the loss of lives.


As hard as that is to think of, I believe it's possible if everyone can choose to participate in aiding mankind instead of ignoring the problems or trying to solve them w/ violence.
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2005, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmopsycle
i personally believe that we have a free will and God created us for many reasons. but one in particular i believe is that he created to prove that, us(a lesser being)by believing and relying on God (the greatest being) he show satan(a greater being) that the lesser can be much more powerful through the Holy Spirit if we just rely on him...just a thought please dont bash me

Nothing wrong with this. Very accurate actually. Satan was self willed and pridefull. He was suppose to reflect the glory of the Lord. Instead, he decided that he was greater than the Lord. His pride cost him. The bible confirms that man was created lower than the angels. So, if man, created out of dirt but with the breath of God can have faith and be obedient then the rest of the angelic beings can see that worshipping God is better than worshipping self.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 09:03 AM
 
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I don't understand what is so wrong with the world today anyways that everything needs to be fixed. ppl are working hard everyday to fix the problems that do exist, but we all have computers talking on a mustang website from the comfort of our chair, in air conditioned homes, in our free time. never have the people of the world had such luxury. its all how you look at it.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-2005, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
Let me first clarify that I am a practing Christian and a believer. I believe it is natural to have questions that turn into doubts becuase it is in our human nature and our sinful nature as well. Usually these doubts (at least for me) arise out of ignorance and then are later answered by someone that is further in there walk.

If God is ominpresent, all knowing, and all powerful. Why can't he snap his fingers (today or thousands of years ago when the problem first occured) and fix the state of the world and the human conditon?
Because he doesn't exist....never did.............you've been brain washed and conditioned to believe in something that is Fantisy.........have faith in yourself and man............thats all we got..........I have walked a million miles and found no evidence to support the "god" theory.........It's just insanity at it's best...............The Romans gods never panned out, the greek Gods never panned out, the Incan & Myan & Aztec gods never panned out, Nor has any other religions God ever been proven...............Remember the Bible was written by man and several at that and is a Control device to keep you suppressed from true Knowledge and spirituality...............Break the Cycle.............
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