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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-17-2005, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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what do you all think of this theory?

Picture the first oak tree; the first one ever created. What do you see? I bet if you could go up to that tree and cut off a branch, you would see rings in the cross section of the wood, indicating the age of the tree. Therefore, the tree was created as though it had a history, eventhough it did not. In the same way, maybe God created earth as though it had a history, eventhough it did not; as though it had been around for 4.6 Billion years. It would have all the characteristics, like layers in the crust, areas of Precambrian rock, fossils, the whole thing. A history to study that was not real.

Does that make since? and while were at it, did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-18-2005, 10:35 PM
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That sounds interesting. I've never thought of it that way.



they did have belly buttons.
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-18-2005, 10:46 PM
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they did have belly buttons.
Why would they have them? They never had an umbilical cord.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-18-2005, 10:57 PM
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the first oak tree didn't just appear... it came from a seed and grew from there... developing it's rings as any other tree would.

that being said, where the seed came from would be a different question. evolution amoungst the plants as well perhaps

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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-19-2005, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Slow Five-O
the first oak tree didn't just appear... it came from a seed and grew from there... developing it's rings as any other tree would.

that being said, where the seed came from would be a different question. evolution amoungst the plants as well perhaps
Biblically speaking, the first tree could not have come from a seed and grew from there. If everything was created in 6 days, with Adam being created on the 6th, then are you saying that Adam was walking around for years waiting for trees to grow so that he would have some shade or some wood to build a home? What did he eat for food?

I see nothing wrong with this theory. Take the fish and loaves of bread story, Jesus feed somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 people with just a few fish and a few loaves of bread. How could this be unless there was fish and bread that was created with age. You think people sat around eating fish eggs and flower? No one went out and baked more bread and caught more fish.

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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-19-2005, 03:25 PM
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Why would they have them? They never had an umbilical cord.
Well the pictures show them with one, right??
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-20-2005, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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ha ha. Yea I had a camera back then too. I used the video camera on my razor cell phone to film Moses presenting the 10 camendments. Well it was actually 15, and then he dropped one of the tablets. now there are only 10. the FBI is still deciphering the pixels to determine what exactly was on the other 5. I'll keep u updated.
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-20-2005, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
Biblically speaking, the first tree could not have come from a seed and grew from there. If everything was created in 6 days, with Adam being created on the 6th, then are you saying that Adam was walking around for years waiting for trees to grow so that he would have some shade or some wood to build a home? What did he eat for food?
Unless the 6 days equals billions of years.

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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-20-2005, 08:39 PM
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Last I checked, when someone says "and the evening and the morning was the first day" it is meant as a 24 hour period not 2.5 billion years. But thats ok Jay, your entitled to your opinion. No one really knows for sure, only in the end will we all know as we are known.

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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-20-2005, 08:54 PM
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True true.

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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-22-2005, 12:58 PM
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It makes sense, If you can believe that God created Adam and Eve as adult people, then it should be no shock that He can create an earth that appears to be millions of years old or even skeletal remains of creatures that never were (I don't know).
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-23-2005, 04:56 PM
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Im on with the seed theory. But at the same time was Adam born a baby? And Eve was a rib to a baby? God created man and then woman.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-24-2005, 10:39 AM
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With that in thought...why couldnt God make a 20 year old tree with a 20 ribbed life? The trees history would just be irrevelent. Same as Adem and Eve. In fact we have to know that trees and such were in full bloom as it were if you concider the Garden of Edan. Same for the animals too. God made all the animals and birds of the air and Adam named them. All in my understanding...without a history. Then came the seeds and the birth of . Cane and Abel. And so on. Cool thoughts though.
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-24-2005, 11:06 AM
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who says that God actually created Earth in six 24 hour periods? Earth days are different from Cosmic days. If God is truly the highest supreme being, then he is so throughout the universe, not just on Earth. A day on Pluto isn't the same as a day on Earth, or any other planet really because of the different revolutions around the solar system.

As far as belly buttons go, I never thought about that. I do know that God told Adam, "for if you eat of this tree, you surely shall die", but then Adam lived another 500 something years after eating from the tree. So really, the conception of time, could be all wrong. I really doubt ol' Adam was running around Earth for over 500 years with the great heathcare benefits that had at that time. lol

I think that the Bible is meant to be metaphoric.

How come the Bible never mentions Dinosaurs? I never heard of a Trex being on the Ark with Noah and some bunnies.
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-24-2005, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LTP
who says that God actually created Earth in six 24 hour periods? Earth days are different from Cosmic days. If God is truly the highest supreme being, then he is so throughout the universe, not just on Earth. A day on Pluto isn't the same as a day on Earth, or any other planet really because of the different revolutions around the solar system.
Precisely the example I gave a couple years ago when this forum was invite only

Why can't a day to God be billions of years on Earth?

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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-25-2005, 10:51 AM
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Unlike alot of people I choose to take God at his word (and I am not talking about just you Jay or LTP). If He says He created the world in 6 days that is what He meant. I dont think He would say He did something when He really did something else, just doesn't make sense to me.

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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-25-2005, 06:02 PM
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That's what I'm not understanding Assuming a day to God is billions of years on Earth, for God to say he created the Earth and everything on it in 6 days, why's it so hard to conceive those days he's speaking of are his days, not our days.

He's not saying one thing and doing something else. He's saying "I created this in 6 days", it then comes down to whether we interpret that as our 6 days, or whether we interpret it as God's days may not be the same as our days, so his 6 days might be a much longer period of time on Earth.

We see a day as one full rotation of Earth. Applying that to other planets, one full rotation of Venus is equal to 243 days on Earth. Mercury's rotation is equal to about 59 days on Earth. Jupiter's day is equal to about 10 hours on Earth. I'd be interested in finding out how long a full rotation of the universe is... if it's ever been calculated, though I don't think it has. Is it so hard to conceive that a full rotation of the universe might take longer than 1 day on Earth?

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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-25-2005, 07:06 PM
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Why would they have them? They never had an umbilical cord.

he woulda made them just as how all the other people were gonna be

Oh! A phoneg is ringin....
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 12:31 AM
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I do know that God told Adam, "for if you eat of this tree, you surely shall die",
anyone ever think of how they communicated? there was no written language of any kind? how would they know what anything meant? i thought about that the other day

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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 06:33 AM
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That's what I'm not understanding Assuming a day to God is billions of years on Earth, for God to say he created the Earth and everything on it in 6 days, why's it so hard to conceive those days he's speaking of are his days, not our days.

He's not saying one thing and doing something else. He's saying "I created this in 6 days", it then comes down to whether we interpret that as our 6 days, or whether we interpret it as God's days may not be the same as our days, so his 6 days might be a much longer period of time on Earth.

We see a day as one full rotation of Earth. Applying that to other planets, one full rotation of Venus is equal to 243 days on Earth. Mercury's rotation is equal to about 59 days on Earth. Jupiter's day is equal to about 10 hours on Earth. I'd be interested in finding out how long a full rotation of the universe is... if it's ever been calculated, though I don't think it has. Is it so hard to conceive that a full rotation of the universe might take longer than 1 day on Earth?
Because in verse 2 of Genesis it says that the Spirit of God moved over the face of the deep, meaning He was here on earth making everything happen not out in the sky sitting on a throne watching evolution take its course.

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post #21 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 1hot302
anyone ever think of how they communicated? there was no written language of any kind? how would they know what anything meant? i thought about that the other day
If you believe that everything was created ~6,000 years ago as do I then this article from 2003 falls right in line.
Quote:
Signs carved into 8,600-year-old tortoise shells found in China may be the earliest written words, say archaeologists.
But you also have to remember that carbon-14 dates are not accurate prior to 1600 B.C.
rest of the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2956925.stm

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post #22 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 10:13 AM
 
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one full rotation of Venus is equal to 243 days on Earth. Mercury's rotation is equal to about 59 days on Earth. Jupiter's day is equal to about 10 hours on Earth.
He put us on earth not the other planets so it's logical to assume the evening/morning meant an earth "day".

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I do know that God told Adam, "for if you eat of this tree, you surely shall die", but then Adam lived another 500 something years after eating from the tree. So really, the conception of time, could be all wrong. I really doubt ol' Adam was running around Earth for over 500 years with the great heathcare benefits that had at that time. lol
So you believe that "evening/morning" was metaphorical but "you surely shall die" was literal? I believe that the death referred to was in fact spiritual in nature.

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How come the Bible never mentions Dinosaurs?
The Bible never mentions alot of things. Does that mean those things never existed? Of course not.
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post #23 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
Because in verse 2 of Genesis it says that the Spirit of God moved over the face of the deep, meaning He was here on earth making everything happen not out in the sky sitting on a throne watching evolution take its course.
Face of the deep sounds more like what one would describe as the universe, not one planet.

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He put us on earth not the other planets so it's logical to assume the evening/morning meant an earth "day".
Which would make sense if you believe that this planet is the only one that contains life in the entire universe. You may be comfortable believing that. I can't.

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post #24 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 01:46 PM
 
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Try typing "the deep", "monster" and or "creature" into google and see what you come up with. I found alot of pages about sea creatures. Didn't go very far but I didn't see any deep space references. Language evolves, ultimately we'd need to go back to the Hebrew to find out what the author meant.

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Which would make sense if you believe that this planet is the only one that contains life in the entire universe. You may be comfortable believing that. I can't.
Nicely placed red herring. It has nothing to do with whether or not there is or isn't life elsewhere in the universe.
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post #25 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 05:40 PM
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It's the void of space that's being referred to in Genesis. He brought light to the void (big bang). Genesis refers to "earth" and "Earth", the distinction is explained below (at least how I believe it to be), in a quote from my website:

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looking through Genesis, and applying 2.5 billion years to each day of creation, the scientific evidence does agree with Genesis. Let's break it down real quick. First thing you have to remember, the Hebrew word for earth meant about 3 or 4 different things. And you'll notice that in Genesis, and in other parts of the Bible, earth is lowercase, and in some places it is uppercase. That leads me to believe that when earth is lowercase, it means a generic term for ground ... and when Earth is uppercase, it is referring to a planet, or our own planet, Earth.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. [6] And God said, Let their be firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters that were above the firmament: and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and morning were the second day.
15 billion years ago, something happened which we call the Big Bang. We perceive the Big Bang as a spark of light in the void of the universe ... or an explosion that began to spread. Gasses, and debris created by this explosion started their long process of forming into stars, and planets, and eventually into solar systems, and even later into galaxies, as the universe continues to expand. The spark, or explosion brought light to the darkness. The earth in this context is the universe as a whole, where there is no form, it's merely a void. By our concept of time, this process took about 5 billion years ... but was simply 2 days to God. It's an allegory used to help man to understand the process. It's hard enough for man in this day and age to fully comprehend 5 billion years ... much less men 6000 years ago who believed the Earth was flat, and the Sun revolved around the Earth.


Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. [10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. [11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, and herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [13] And the evening and morning were the third day. [14] And God said, let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. [17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, [18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. [19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
The next two days, or 5 billion years we now see the swirling gasses, and debris coming together to form the stars, and the planets. And planets beginning to rotate, and to circle the stars, and after billions of years of molten rock, cooling and forming solid land, the planets began to produce foliage. So now we have planets experiencing days and nights, and years, and seasons. We've come through 10 billion years, and now the Earth has finally taken shape, and it too is starting to produce foliage, that will later be needed to sustain life.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. [21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and ever winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. [23] And the evening and morning were the fifth day. [24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. [25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. [31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
And so we come to the final 5 billion years, or the last 2 days. And here we have life beginning in the seas, and in the sky, and on the land. A lot can happen in 5 billion years. In 5 billion years we've had the formation of the Earth, the beginnings of life, Dinosaurs, creatures in the sea, on the land, and in the air. And eventually leading to man.
Googling "the deep" brings up a mixture of deep sea related sites, and space related sites. Not really sure why you'd google monster and creature, since neither are referred to in Genesis.

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post #26 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 07:32 PM
 
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I see no difference in the capital E/lower case e in the Bibles I have here. In any case, to convince me you'll have to go back to the original Hebrew.

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[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Simply seems logical that "deep" refers to the waters. I googled for "monsters" because the phrase "monsters of the deep kept popping up in my mind. I thought I might find a scripture verse. I'm not on my comp or I'd have used e-sword.

I agree with Moondog's interpretation that "1 day is as 1,000 years" means that our sense of time isn't God's. If in fact it means literally what it says, then we should be consistent and not interpret it to mean 1 day = 2.5 billion years. It's just not consistent.

Obviously neither of us were there so we can't say for sure.

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looking through Genesis, and applying 2.5 billion years to each day of creation, the scientific evidence does agree with Genesis
What specific evidence are you referring to? For evidence of a young earth look here.

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post #27 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 08:13 PM
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Genesis 2 literally reads:
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And the earth being without form and empty, and darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moving gently on the face of the waters.
The Hebrew word for deep is tehowm which means abyss (as a surging mass of water) or deep (the main sea or the subterranean water supply). The Hebrew word for water here is mayim which means, you guessed it, water.

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post #28 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 08:24 PM
 
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Moondog, what's your source for the hebrew translation? I just opened e-sword and they use Strong's concordance/dictionary.

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tehom (1062d); from an unused word; deep, sea, abyss: - deep (22), deeps (8), depths (4), ocean depths (1), springs (1).
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post #29 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf
looking through Genesis, and applying 2.5 billion years to each day of creation, the scientific evidence does agree with Genesis.
Sure it does Jay, if a person believes in evolution. But where do the interpretations stop? It says that Noah built an ark and it rained for 40 days, did it or did it not? Or did it actually rain for 100 billion years? Moses was in the wilderness for 40 years, but I guess it could have been , NAW!! Joshua marched around Jericho for 7 days, or was it 17.5 billion, crap I dont know.

Dont take this the wrong way Jay. I am not trying to make fun of you or your beliefs. For me, evolution just doesn't make sense.

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post #30 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JKDGabe
Moondog, what's your source for the hebrew translation? I just opened e-sword and they use Strong's concordance/dictionary.
I have a Hebrew and Greek Interlinear Bible. It is written in the original languages with a literal translation out to the side and Strong's numbers for reference. I took Hebrew and Greek about 15 years ago, so I know alittle of the language plus I have visited Israel so I learned some there also.

E-sword is a great freebie.

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post #31 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 09:34 PM
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Everyone seems to be caught up in the idea that "time" actually has to represent a unit of measurement. Time - the fourth dimension - does not have to be a constant for "God" (or Yahweh or Jehovah or whatever). What if....a day to God is simply when he accomplishes something and when he moves to another task...the day changes? Remember the Bible was written by man and therefore will be fallable. I know, I know...there is a passage in the Bible that states something to the effect of the true meaning not changing and etc etc. But with so many translations......do they all say the same thing?....no they don't. And I am almost sure (if God exists) that he doe not measure his time in days, weeks and months. Time has so many measurements. I am sure many will disagree and that's cool because none of us know for sure.

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post #32 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 11:02 PM
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Man is fallible yes, but the bible and God is not. God told man what to write so ultimately the bible is true regardless of who wrote down the words. And we are not talking about all these hokey translations going around nowadays. The original Hebrew and Greek texts still contain the true word of God. And it has already been stated many times over that the translations we have today are atleast 95% acurate to every ancient text ever found with no doctrinal changes.

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post #33 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 01:59 AM
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Sure it does Jay, if a person believes in evolution. But where do the interpretations stop? It says that Noah built an ark and it rained for 40 days, did it or did it not? Or did it actually rain for 100 billion years? Moses was in the wilderness for 40 years, but I guess it could have been , NAW!! Joshua marched around Jericho for 7 days, or was it 17.5 billion, crap I dont know.

Dont take this the wrong way Jay. I am not trying to make fun of you or your beliefs. For me, evolution just doesn't make sense.
The difference being that the recount of Genesis is God speaking about how he created everything. The story's of Noah, and Moses are human recountings of what we suspect to be historical events (though I still don't believe in a worldwide flood. However a flood of the mediterranean basin is entirely concievable, and during that time... that was the whole world to everyone concerned with the Bible.) Because they're human recountings, they are then governed by our notion of time.

And back to evolution, surely you agree that micro evolution is indeed a scientific fact. You should know from past debates that I too don't agree with macro evolution, and have always based my evolution arguments on micro evolution

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What specific evidence are you referring to? For evidence of a young earth look here.
The evidence I'm speaking of is that which suggests the universe is ~15 billion years old, and Earth is ~4.6 billion years old.

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post #34 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 06:19 AM
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You should know from past debates that I too don't agree with macro evolution, and have always based my evolution arguments on micro evolution
Yes, I am aware of this. But if I remember correctly you dont nessesarily believe that God created Adam as a man but that we have a common ancestor with the ape, right? It is my understanding that even though we are about 98% identical in terms of chemical makeup with the ape, if we were to alter our DNA structure any within that 2% range we would have a birth defect. I dont believe that we could have evolved like that and been able to survive.

By the way, I love your agruments, it makes me, and probably others, think.

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post #35 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 07:51 AM
 
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Everyone seems to be caught up in the idea that "time" actually has to represent a unit of measurement. Time - the fourth dimension - does not have to be a constant for "God"
I agree that time doesn't have to be the same for God. But now that I've figured out how to use E-Sword...

Yom (yome) is the word used for day in Gen. 1 and can mean either one specific 24 hr period or almost any given period of time. That's much like we've all heard the phrase "back in the day..." obviously that doesn't mean a specific 24 hr time slot.
But Genesis goes on to say "there was evening and there was morning, the second day". The words used for morning (boqer) and evening (ereb) are not subjective, they mean in Hebrew exactly what they mean in English.

What it comes down to is this: do you believe the Bible or not? If you believe in God why is it hard to believe He created the earth etc. in 6 literal days? If it's the scientific evidence just look around, there's good arguments on both sides. Try going to the Glen Rose Creation Evidences Museum, they have some very interesting stuff. They're holding a public dig this summer like they do every year, I'll take a day if I have time and see what they're working on this year.

It is nice to participate in a discussion without even the hint of personal attacks.
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post #36 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 11:36 AM
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Yes, I am aware of this. But if I remember correctly you dont nessesarily believe that God created Adam as a man but that we have a common ancestor with the ape, right? It is my understanding that even though we are about 98% identical in terms of chemical makeup with the ape, if we were to alter our DNA structure any within that 2% range we would have a birth defect. I dont believe that we could have evolved like that and been able to survive.

By the way, I love your agruments, it makes me, and probably others, think.
Actually what I believe is that we evolved from an original species that later split, whether through genetic mutation or divine intervention, into ape and man, not that ape's are man's ancestors... more like cousins. We got the good genes There's no "missing link", because we split from a common ancestor, rather than evolve from apes. The genetic difference is actually only about .5%, last I read. Much the same with the Horse, Donkey, and Zebra; Dog and Wolf, etc.

That first generation after the split, contained Adam and Eve. Which yes, means that I don't believe Adam and Eve were the only two people on the planet. I believe they were the mother and father of Christianity, but not necissarily of the entire human race.

And, seriously... with people like Ron Perlman, it's hard not to notice just how similar we are to apes

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post #37 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 05:05 PM
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Cool

It is nice to participate in a discussion without even the hint of personal attacks. [/QUOTE]


Very true...and good discussion here......

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post #38 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 06:11 PM
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Why do so many of you try to make God's word so hgard to understand. God said he made the earth and all on it in 6 days and rested on the 7th. What the heck are all these figures of what might be God's time. Did you folks ever think that he knew who he was communicating to. God is not the auther of confusion. He understands that he must speak to us in a figure of language that we could understand. Dont you think?
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post #39 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 06:17 PM
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I get this visual image of you telling your dog all about your trip to six flags.....and he just sits there with his head cocked to the right. Totally clueless of what you just said to him.. Your smart enough to know that your dog dont understand. Dont you think that if God said 6 days that he wanted you to understand that he meant 6 days.
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post #40 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 06:20 PM
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And 1 more thing............."and the great beast of the fields".............. It would be my guess that he was speaking about your T-Rex.
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post #41 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 06:23 PM
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And 1 more thing............."and the great beast of the fields".............. It would be my guess that he was speaking about your T-Rex.
Or Dragons.

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post #42 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 09:48 PM
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Or Dragons.
Or cows.

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post #43 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 09:51 PM
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I get this visual image of you telling your dog all about your trip to six flags.....and he just sits there with his head cocked to the right. Totally clueless of what you just said to him.. Your smart enough to know that your dog dont understand. Dont you think that if God said 6 days that he wanted you to understand that he meant 6 days.
So you don't think he could use language man would comprehend, but that would have a different meaning? Ie: He says "yo, I did this all in 6 days"... does he mean our 6 days, or his 6 days. That's the point of the discussion here. He can say 6 days, and can literally mean 6 days... but that doesn't necissarily mean our 6 days.

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post #44 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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So you don't think he could use language man would comprehend, but that would have a different meaning? Ie: He says "yo, I did this all in 6 days"... does he mean our 6 days, or his 6 days. That's the point of the discussion here. He can say 6 days, and can literally mean 6 days... but that doesn't necissarily mean our 6 days.
I'm gonna create another thread with this one, but here's another theory I have. Mind you, I am not trying to create a new theology; this is just how I make since of things and I think it is interesting discussion (not an individual trying to create new doctrine)...

This is how I expain God's Omnipresence and his existance in all points in time

I think most would agree that something that is 0-Dimensional is a point. Similarly, something that is 1-Dimensional is a line. A line is created by using an infinte number of points. Something that is 2 Dimensional (a plane) is created by using an infinite number of lines, and something that is 3-D (space) is created using an infiite number of 2-D components (planes). Here's where it get interesting... time is the forth dimension... it is created by sequentially stringing an infinite number of spaces. (the philosopher might argue that time is the only thing that keeps everything from happening all at once, but I think that actually helps my case. And a 5-D world would be created by an infinite number of 4-D's (times)

God's most finite existance is 5-D. In other words he exists at all points, all planes, all space, and all times. Now, beyond my comprehension... God exists in an infinite number of dimensions.

Interestingly, He is in control of everything too. This means that if you throw up a handful of sand and a gust of wind comes by and scatters that sand. God had been waiting there since the begining of time for you to do that so he can send that gust of wind.
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post #45 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 11:55 AM
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Or Dragons.
Or Chihuahuas. They were really big in the Mesozoic Period.

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post #46 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 05:49 PM
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Yes it r your 6 days. He is taliking to you aint he. Thats my whole point. You make God out to be a real idiot. If he is speaking to you dont you think he'd speak to where you would understand. My goodness people. He knows what your 24 hour day consist of. Made the world in 6 days. ^ 24 hr periods. Your time. He even said so. Sorry..... I just dont remember him saying, "I made the world in 6 days...Well thats 6 days my time".
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post #47 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 06:34 PM
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As I said before, He said 6 days. He did not specify whether he was talking about our days or his. It doesn't matter that he's talking to us. Had he specified his 6 days, and then said "I did all this in 6 days, or 15 billion years to you"... man at that time wouldn't begin to fathom how long that expanse of time would be... and it'd also kind of lessen God's "power" in the eyes of man... cause I mean, really... if it takes God 15 billion years to do something, how powerful and omnipotent could he really be?

No, he said 6 days. Whether it's our 6 days, or his, is up for US to interperet. What exactly aren't you understanding about that?

You don't speak of complex ideas regarding time and physics to a child just starting to learn about the world around them. Why would God be any different with man who also was just starting to learn about the world around him? Man understands 6 days, not 15 billion years. God, knowing this, and knowing that our 15 billion years is roughly equivalent to his 6 days, says to man "I did this in 6 days". It clicks. Man understands that God created everything in 6 days. Man doesn't ask whether that's our 6 days, or God's 6 days, because man doesn't understand time, the universe, and other complex ideas that would be needed to carry on such a discussion. We're only just barely starting to scratch the surface of these complex ideas ourselves.

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post #48 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 06:55 PM
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OK Jay, you may have alreay answered this question but I would like to ask it again. If man has indeed been around for ~2.5 billion years why is it that only in the last 5,000 years or so has man progressed? I mean, man had to be pretty stupid for 2.45 billion years and not evolve much, all he really did was walk around and say UGH! Then suddenly 5,000 years ago man starts making things, cities, writing, the list goes on and on.

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post #49 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 09:33 PM
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The earliest evidence we've seen of civilization is roughly 10,000-15,000 years ago. Prior to that, man was nomadic, never staying in one place. Much like animals. Moving where the food moved. It's not that man suddenly 5,000 years ago started to progress; that is when most of the great civilizations started, however. Egypt, Mayan, Aztec, Greek, China...

The last great ice age ended about 12,000 years ago. I'd suspect survival was the main goal of man, at the time, rather than tinkering with inventions of civilization. Basic hunting and gathering tools, clothing, basic shelter. Whatever they couldn't carry with them during migration, was left behind. They had no time/space for large libraries of written works, artwork of any kind beyond what they could scribble on cave walls. After the ice age ended, it was finally possible for man to settle, and start building civilizations. Meat and fish were no longer the only source of food as man could now produce crops, which allowed man to stay in one place, and still be able to survive year round.

And the estimate for the earliest neanderthal's, is not quite 2.5 billion 65 million years, though that estimate is just that, an estimate. The earliest evidence of human like remains is less than 3 million years old. Of course these are based on radiometric carbon dating, which is only accurate to ~50,000 years. When something needs to be dated that shows to be much older, there are a number of various isotope tests that can be conducted to try and reach a "best guess". Essentially taking the median age, between the maximum and minimum results.

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post #50 of 74 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 11:17 AM
 
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He did not specify whether he was talking about our days or his... Whether it's our 6 days, or his, is up for US to interperet
"Evening... morning... the next day."

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What exactly aren't you understanding about that?
That's what I'm wondering!
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