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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-24-2004, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

I've been told he was not born on this date. Does it say in the bible that he was born on December 25th?



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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-24-2004, 04:20 PM
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Nobody knows when Christ was born. Celebrations of Chist birth weren't until 200 AD.

From what I remember, Dec 25th was chosen by a Roman emperor (Constantine?) to "eliminate" the pagan Winter Solstice celebration.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-24-2004, 04:53 PM
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Christ was born in Aug. I believe. They where on their way to be enrolled [census] when Mary went into labour.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-24-2004, 05:06 PM
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I have always heard sometime in the Sept. early Oct time frame before it started to turn cold. It could have been on or near Rosh Hashanah around 4-6 BC.

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-24-2004, 08:23 PM
 
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Does it say in the bible that he was born on December 25th?
No. Much debate about when, but it was NOT December 25. I was, but Christ was not.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 03:19 AM
 
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i honestly don't know, don't really care though, just thankful that the lord lives in us all. even those we consider evil, or bad. i don't believe with the orthodox churches way of doing things. im a gnostic christian. gnosis meaning "a seeker of truth" I believe christ lives in us all, a so called inner-christ being. we should celebrate his life everyday through the way we live our lives. i still have problems and things i must face. but the lord jesus, with mother and father god will help me. peace be with all. love one another. we're only here for a short time.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 06:36 AM
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just thankful that the lord lives in us all. even those we consider evil, or bad. ... but the lord jesus, with mother and father god will help me.
Interesting, God lives in everyone, not just those who are believers and not only is there a Father God but here is a Mother God also. Not sure where you got those beliefs from but they are interesting nonetheless.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 08:33 AM
 
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I'm interested to know why you believe that. Scripture reference or...?
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 01:02 PM
 
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why is it so hard to believe that there is a mother god. in this world every male species has a female counterpart correct. i did not post to be bashed on. this is what i believe. yes, i believe god lives in us all. some what of a trinity belief i guess. i will be honest, i have been a walking, talking theological study. it has been proven over and over that the orthodox church when translating the scriptures left some important books out. they did this to keep thier respectable power. even jesus said he lives in us. in our heart, mind, and soul. im not here to push my beliefs onto anyone. just thought that would be important for people to know. i believe we can all learn from other prophets. buddha, krishna, mohammed, jesus. like i said im a seeker of truth. what i believe brings peace to my heart and mind. and i know jesus is with me. i believe we all go to heaven and this is the only hell we will ever experience. if god is all love, why would he send us to a place where we would suffer. also satan has always been referred to as "the fallen angel" the word angel is someone of light, love, peace, what have you. add fallen to that, and it just cancels out everything an angel is. im truly sorry if i offended anyone. I do believe the books of the old testament, and new testament. but i also read the nag hammadi library. search it online and read some of it.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 01:05 PM
 
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also, god i believe lives in us all. i just believe those who are evil in this world, killers, rapists, plain out people who don't respect life are just dark entities. i am open to discussion. but i will not tolerate being bashed for my beliefs. i will respect everyones beliefs and i wish for them to respect mine. please, all i ask is keep a open mind. i see everyone as my fellow brothers and sisters.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 01:33 PM
 
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I'm interested to know why you believe that.

Not sure where you got those beliefs from but they are interesting nonetheless.
I think you're overly sensitive if you interpret that as "bashing" you.

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even jesus said he lives in us
What He said was "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by Me". So that leaves us with what? Either Jesus was Lord, liar or lunatic.

A: He was/is what He claimed to be.
B: Liar. (Self explanatory)
C: Lunatic, he thought he was God's son but wasn't.

So which one do you think it was? Please don't be offended, I'm interested in what/why you believe. Discussing these things helps us both refine our position, as it says in Proverbs; "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another".
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 05:47 PM
 
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i guess i believe what i believe cause when i was young i went to all types of churches. i collected all the diffrent beliefs. all i seek is the truth. i do believe jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, and then ascended into heaven. i read the nag hammadi library. things just click in my head when i read it. i also drive to san angelo to a study group we all discuss why we believe certain things. i have put deep thought, and tryed looking deep into my soul. being gnositc, i seek more of a spiritual truth, more of what role am i playing in god's eyes. what is my overall meaning for this life and what is it i must do to go back to my god's house. i love the holy bible, i love god more than anything or anyone. my beliefs have helped me realize that nothing on this earth is worth having. though i do like to have nice things. overall i understand nothing is more important than our lives on this planet. cause we are all working for god, for his glory, and for his love. i read the holy bible, but i also read other sacred texts. buddhism, and islam have many great ideologys that could help us glorify gods name.
I just said i will not tolerate being bashed on for my beliefs cause when i try to explain what i believe and why to CHRISTIANS. it's always YOUR WRONG, YOUR GOING TO HELL. now that is not very christian is it? i pretty much get critisized by christians for my beliefs the same way the jews persecuted jesus cause of who he was. and what he knew was true. If i am wrong and i do end up in hell, so be it. i will have no other choice. but this brings me strength, and love, and helps me to love and show grace upon others.

can anyone find a text in the bible in which jesus said he is the only way to the eternal father? please list your refrences.....i am up to be taught. if yall can prove me wrong then do so.

also, does anyone know of where jesus lived and what he was doing from the ages of 12-29?
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 06:58 PM
 
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:)

John 14:6

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I just said i will not tolerate being bashed on for my beliefs cause when i try to explain what i believe and why to CHRISTIANS. it's always YOUR WRONG, YOUR GOING TO HELL. now that is not very christian is it?
Actually, it is. Jesus preached grace to those who were repentant and the law (ie: "you're going to hell...") to the self righteous. He had the perfect wisdom to know which one an individual was and unfortunately we don't. That doesn't mean we should only preach one or the other though.

I repeat my earlier question: what do you believe Jesus was - Lord, liar or lunatic?
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by aGuyInOdessa
but i will not tolerate being bashed for my beliefs. i will respect everyones beliefs and i wish for them to respect mine. please, all i ask is keep a open mind. i see everyone as my fellow brothers and sisters.
Wow, you won't tolerate it? lol
You've said that twice that you didn't come here to be bashed. Yet, i've seen no one bash you. Defensive much?
post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedi
Nobody knows when Christ was born. Celebrations of Chist birth weren't until 200 AD.

From what I remember, Dec 25th was chosen by a Roman emperor (Constantine?) to "eliminate" the pagan Winter Solstice celebration.
I guess Constantine was stupid and didn't know that the winter solstice is on Dec 21 or 22.

Why didn't he knock off the pagan summer solstice, so that we don't have to freeze our butts off?

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aGuyInOdessa
i will not tolerate being bashed for my beliefs.
Sorry if you feel I or anyone else was bashing you. That was not our intent, dont be so defensive.

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Originally Posted by aGuyInOdessa
i believe we can all learn from other prophets. buddha, krishna, mohammed, jesus.
You lump Jesus in with other "prophets"? Was He not the one and only begotten Son of God? That would make Him more than just a prophet. But yes, I believe we can learn something from these other men, just not to the point to where what they say contradicts the bible. The bible may not contain all truth but it most definitly is all true.
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i do believe jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, and then ascended into heaven.
Because of this statement right here I will never tell you that you are going to hell because of what you believe.
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Originally Posted by aGuyInOdessa
can anyone find a text in the bible in which jesus said he is the only way to the eternal father? please list your refrences.....i am up to be taught. if yall can prove me wrong then do so.

also, does anyone know of where jesus lived and what he was doing from the ages of 12-29?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

From what we can tell from the Bible, Jesus was 1) living at home with His parents Joseph and Mary, along with His brothers and sisters and 2) He was learning the trade of His father Joseph, carpentry along with tending to His Heavenly Fathers business.

One last thing, no I do not believe there is a mother god. There is nothing in the bible that states otherwise. There is one and only one God.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-25-2004, 11:35 PM
 
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Personally, I believe that the Bible tell when Jesus was born, if you know what to look for. It can be caclulated using the conception and birth of John the Baptist, who was born roughly 6 months prior to Jesus. Jesus was born at the Feast of Tabernacles, which is late Sept to early Oct. http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-26-2004, 02:24 AM
 
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Sorry If I Offended Anyone. No Im Not Defensive. I Just Felt Attacked Cause Of What I Wrote. Im Sorry For Getting All Butt Hurt. Haha. But Thats Always Been The Way It Is. Can Someone Give Me A Refrence Please Of Where Jesus Was Through His Early Years Growing Up. Hardcore Evidence. I Will Not Talk About What I Believe. Cause It's Not Going To Make Since To Those Except For The Ones Who Share My Beliefs. I Believe Jesus Is Lord, Christ Savior, Redeemer Of Souls. Moondog, Thank You.

I Just Want Everyone To Know, That I Am Not Mad Or Anything Like That. I Am Still A Walking Theological Study. I Love Studying All Types Of Religions, Cause It's Interesting Me. Nothing Is More Important That God To Me. I Still Struggle With Things On This Earth Just The Same As Anybody, The Only Real Diffrence Is I Believe There Is Both A Matriachal, And Patriachal Part To God. Maybe Cause When I Read The Bible You Can See And Understand Jesus Is All Love, Full Of Grace, He Has The Love A Mother Has For Her Children, But He Was Also Stern And Strong In The Face Of Hate And He Led His Disciples Like A Father Leads His Children Through Dark Times. We Are All Blessed By God, Yes I Believe All Followers Of Christ Have Him Within His Soul. On The Statement Of Me Putting Christ With Other Prophets. If You Read Other Religions Sacred Texts, You Will Find That We All Are Searching For The Same Thing. And That Does Not Make Us Bad People, Or Make Us Evil In Gods Eyes. He Loves All His Children Yes? I Just Believe We Can Also Learn Great Lessons Of Life Through Thier Words As Well.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-26-2004, 06:59 AM
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Can Someone Give Me A Refrence Please Of Where Jesus Was Through His Early Years Growing Up. Hardcore Evidence.
If this is what you are looking for then no, your not gonna get it. But I also do not believe that your gonna get it from reading other religious texts either simply because they do not reference Jesus at all. I do not believe the lie about Jesus running off to the Far East to enlighten the people.
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The Only Real Diffrence Is I Believe There Is Both A Matriachal, And Patriachal Part To God.
Now this is totally different then your last statement. Yes, I believe that the One True God has both maternal and paternal instincts about Him. The way you stated it before it sounded as though you believed there is both a female god and a male god.

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-26-2004, 08:25 AM
 
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i do believe jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, and then ascended into heaven
That's great. Do you believe IN or ON Christ? Even the demons believe, and tremble. They're going to be cast into the lake of fire! Believing is just the starting point, you must entrust your soul/life to and cast all your cares on Him. Please note, I'm not saying you ARE going to hell, I don't know. But you're ignoring my question which makes me wonder... it's a simple question.

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If You Read Other Religions Sacred Texts, You Will Find That We All Are Searching For The Same Thing. And That Does Not Make Us Bad People, Or Make Us Evil In Gods Eyes. He Loves All His Children Yes?
Yes, God loves everyone. But that doesn't mean "I'm ok, you're ok" or "it's all good..." because He set up the Way to come to Him. It's a simple way, just believe in Christ, repent of your sins and ask Him into your life. Simple, but the ONLY way! Why would God do that? Because He want's us to give up ourself to Him. He'll take care of us far better than we could hope to, but when we try it just gets in His way. Basically, when we say "I'm gonna do this my way" we set ourselves up as gods. Do you remember the story of Cain and Abel? It was time for a peace offering (blood sacrifice) and Cain decided his grain was good enough. Cain ended up killing Abel out of jealousy when God told him that it wasn't. It's not about what you or I think is good enough, it's about what God said.

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I Just Believe We Can Also Learn Great Lessons Of Life Through Thier Words As Well.
Life lessons? Yes. Will it save us? No.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-26-2004, 05:19 PM
 
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Ok i Really didnt read all the above posts, BUT

No Jesus was not born on December 25th, Not in December, Not even in winter. If you actually read the bible (not insulting anyone) there are multiple clues every where that hint at Spring, Shepperd were outside tending to their flocks...not in winter they dont, and they didnt walk for a day in the snow either... Christmas was Created at about 300 years after jesus' death. It was placed in december to compete with Paegan holidays b/c as you notice...there are no holidays in december.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 02:04 PM
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interesting thread
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 11:33 PM
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What He said was "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by Me".
Yeah, but in Mathew, Mark, and Luke it's written as him saying that "Through no man may you enter heaven. Only through God". It's only in John that it's written as him saying "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by Me."

Which could be considered a contradiction, or could be to mean that Jesus was God in the flesh.

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 06:40 AM
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I believe Jesus was God in the flesh. Thats what hosanna means 'God among us'.
I look at it like this, if my father sent me to Mars on a specific mission. I get there and its obiviois that I'm different, beacuse I can do things they can't. I tell them if they want to talk to or see my father that is on earth I'm the only one that can tell them how to get there. I'm the only one thats seen or talked to the father. So Jesus being God would be like me telling the martians I'm human as my father is human. Jesus came from the spiritual world [heaven] to the material world to make it possible for me to go there. Thank you Jesus!

I'm a man. I can change, if I have to, I guess.
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkWolf
Yeah, but in Mathew, Mark, and Luke it's written as him saying that "Through no man may you enter heaven. Only through God". It's only in John that it's written as him saying "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by Me."

Which could be considered a contradiction, or could be to mean that Jesus was God in the flesh.
I believe that there are/were two parts to Jesus. One being the man Jesus whom was born 2,000 years ago and second the only true God that dwelt within Jesus whom has been here since the beginning.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-10-2005, 06:07 PM
 
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i get the feeling I'm going to be alone on this one but I keep seeing the word truth on the screen in reference to your independent religious beliefs. I appreciate faith if thats the way you wish to live so be it. I don't want anyone telling me I shouldn't be an atheist, however the word truth isn't accurate as no one can know the truth until they die and as of yet no one has filled us in on this particular event or what follows.
Also I believe David Koresh was the second coming. Boy did we fuck that up!
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-10-2005, 06:14 PM
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So you believe that truth is only reletive to ones own beliefs?

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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-11-2005, 06:47 AM
 
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No I don't proclaim my beliefs to be THE TRUTH, and would just like to see that from other people who are at worst brainwashed and at best just guessing.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-11-2005, 08:30 AM
 
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I don't think you answered his question. I think most of us admit we could be wrong.
Is truth relative? In other words, is your "truth" different from mine?
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-11-2005, 09:23 AM
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No I don't proclaim my beliefs to be THE TRUTH, and would just like to see that from other people who are at worst brainwashed and at best just guessing.
What about those of us that make an informed decision?

It took me 36 years to reach my epiphany. I have been in and out of being a follower most of my life. I toiled understanding as much as I could. No matter how much I learn, it was never enough to pushed me passed the point of total submission, untill I realized that we are all expected to have faith.

Truth will only take you 90-95% of the way.
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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-11-2005, 11:53 AM
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No I don't proclaim my beliefs to be THE TRUTH, and would just like to see that from other people who are at worst brainwashed and at best just guessing.
I believe that my beliefs are indeed the truth. If I did not believe that they were then why should I believe? I believe there is an all loving God, and I believe that is the truth. What would be the sence in believing this if I also did not believe it as truth? Why believe anything? But at the sametime I am also open to the remote possibility that I could very well be wrong. And I would suppose that most everyone here believes the same way.

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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-12-2005, 08:59 AM
 
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I guess I just dont believe it to be as remote as you do. And to answer an earlier question no truth in its very nature can not be relative The truth is the truth regardless of what you or I choose to believe. I could be just as wrong as I believe you are but both of us will one day find out the truth. I have heard the argument many times that if you are wrong nothing bad comes to pass, but I end up in hell. So I guess I have more to lose but I can't believe in something just to be on the safe side, its not how I want to live my life. I certainly can't live my life based on something I believe to be false just in the off chance that I am saving my soul.
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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2005, 12:41 PM
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And I would not want you to believe something just as an insurance policy. I would want you to believe something because you truly thought it was true. Regardless of what you may think, you believe certain things because you think it is truth. If you did not think it was then you you be believing a lie, and ofcourse you dont think you are, so therefore, you believe its truth.

Everyone thinks that what they believe is the truth. But in reality, like you said, one day we all will find out who is right and who is wrong. I am very happy and content with my decision, and I have no fear of what lies ahead. But on the flipside of things, there is a small part inside of me that hopes I am wrong because I would hate to see anyone parish for their lack of belief.

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