9/11 and the Koran and the Bible - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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9/11 and the Koran and the Bible

Thought this was interesting....
IRAQ - VERY INTERESTING - DID YOU KNOW?

1. The garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon,which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq, means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 01:41 AM
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oo I LOVE stuff like this....awsome find

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SVT93Style
The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.
Ummm, actually, the Quran does not say that...

9:11- But even so, if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity- they are your brethren in Faith: thus, do we explain the Signs in detail for those who understand.

And did you know that part of Iraq was part of the promised land that God gave to Abraham's family? Israel originally went as far west as the Mediterranian to as far east as Kedemoth and as far north as the Sea of Galilee to as far south as the Wadi of Egypt.

This place is going to be a mess when Jerusalem is rebuilt and I'm glad I won't be around when God comes to give the land back to His people.

Last edited by Denny; 09-21-2004 at 03:09 AM.
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 03:13 AM
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The Promised Land...

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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)
I could also comment on this. A literal translation of the verse says:
Quote:
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Behold! I see four men loose, walking in the middle of the fire, and there is no harm. The form of the fourth resembles a son of god.
Throughout the OT angles are refered to as "sons of God". The verse literally says a son not the Son like Jesus is refered to in the NT. For if you go on and read:
Quote:
Dan 3:28 Nebuchadnezzar spoke and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who has sent His Angel and has delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and have changed the king's words, and have given their bodies that they might not serve nor worship any god except their own God.

Just because a verse reads "son of God" does it automatically mean Jesus. We all are called adopted sons of God when we become born again.

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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !
I can't comment on the rest of the post, but this is all bunk.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/quran.asp
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 08:17 AM
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This is one of the reasons why I have a hard time buying into organized religion. Too many of you guys believe everything you read.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by talisman
This is one of the reasons why I have a hard time buying into organized religion. Too many of you guys believe everything you read.

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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 02:54 PM
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Maybe you don't believe enough of what you read.
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
This is one of the reasons why I have a hard time buying into organized religion. Too many of you guys believe everything you read.
I dont care much for organized man-made religion either. Thats why I choose to follow Jesus instead.

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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 10:58 PM
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Maybe you don't believe enough of what you read.
Considering I've spent alot of time reading the bulk of your posts, I doubt thats true.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
This is one of the reasons why I have a hard time buying into organized religion. Too many of you guys believe everything you read.
The only incorrect text posted was that of the Koran. All the Biblical references are true. Has nothing to do with organized religion what-so-ever. This would just fall under the umbrella of human gullibility. No different than the alleged Nostradamus prophecies of 9/11 or John Kerry's speech where he supposedly quoted John 13:6 instead of John 3:16.

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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 09:08 AM
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The only incorrect text posted was that of the Koran.

Exactly, and it is framed at the end as the 'big payoff.' And it was swallowed. Completly. All I'm pointing out is how easy it is for people with no idea of actual facts to be led.
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Didn't type it, just passed it on.

Didn't type it, just passed it on.
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 11:41 AM
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Didn't type it, just passed it on.

As the person who is just 'passing it on,' you are responsible for checking the credibility of its contents. This ain't CBS.
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 12:56 PM
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He's CBS, we're the document experts.

Make your own conclusions, but don't think that just because someone believes it, that they're delusional. The events described in the New Testament were not imagined.
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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 01:54 PM
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He's CBS, we're the document experts.

Make your own conclusions, but don't think that just because someone believes it, that they're delusional. The events described in the New Testament were not imagined.
Says who?
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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 02:06 PM
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Says who?
Says evidenciary support, that's who.

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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 04:43 PM
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Says evidenciary support, that's who.
I would offer a rebuttle to that statement but there is no such word as evidenciary.
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 09:57 PM
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I believe he meant evidentiary.

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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 02:20 AM
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I believe he meant evidentiary.
Then what evidentiary support does he speak of? At first I thought he meant evidentiary but then he doesn't fit in his statement.
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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 06:52 AM
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I would offer a rebuttle to that statement but there is no such word as evidenciary.
Ignoratio elenchi!

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 06:58 AM
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Then what evidentiary support does he speak of? At first I thought he meant evidentiary but then he doesn't fit in his statement.
First, the burden of proof is on you to show support for your argument. You present your arguments for a lack evidence for an acurate New Testament account. Then, I will issue my rebuttles.

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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 10:27 AM
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You guys act like you're going to change each others minds. Give me a break.
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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 10:43 AM
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First, the burden of proof is on you to show support for your argument. You present your arguments for a lack evidence for an acurate New Testament account. Then, I will issue my rebuttles.

Negative ghost rider. Burden of proof is on you. You base your facts on a book written over a thousand years ago with no evidence to back it's claims.

I'm going to start a religion filled with text that can be interpreted 127 different ways, has stories that can't be verified and tells my readers that the higher power is responsible for all coincedental activity or lackthereof.

Last edited by Hollywood; 09-26-2004 at 11:15 AM.
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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 10:51 AM
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Negative ghost rider. Burden of proof is on you. You base your facts on a book written over a thousand years ago with no evidence to back it's claims. You think the guys over at CBS may be direct decendants of the authors of the bible?

I'm going to start a religion filled with text that can be interpreted 127 different ways, has stories that can't be verified and tells my readers that the higher power is responsible for all coincedental activity or lackthereof.

psssst. Someone beat you to it.
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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 11:09 AM
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psssst. Someone beat you to it.
I need to stop skipping posts within threads.
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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood
Negative ghost rider. Burden of proof is on you. You base your facts on a book written over a thousand years ago with no evidence to back it's claims.

I'm going to start a religion filled with text that can be interpreted 127 different ways, has stories that can't be verified and tells my readers that the higher power is responsible for all coincedental activity or lackthereof.
Your, "Says who?" implies that you think that the events in the New Testament were imagined. Therefore it is upon you to tell us what was imagined. When you tell me what was imagined than I will rebut and present the the refuting evedince.

BTW, there are 127 different interpretations of the Bible because you have 125 or so unversed readers making their assumptions of what the answer is. When/if you have a trained individual with an intimate knowledge of the book then it is very easy to understand.
A parellel might be our justice system. The law, in its raw form is difficult to understand. You ever heard of a sh!thouse lawyer? These are the guys that sit and tell you, "If that cop didn't have his marker lights on at night, while on the shoulder, you can get out of the speeding ticket." This is a person that knows something of the law but does not fully comprehend its meaning. That is why we require judges to interpret the law in court for us.

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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 12:10 PM
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Your, "Says who?" implies that you think that the events in the New Testament were imagined. Therefore it is upon you to tell us what was imagined. When you tell me what was imagined than I will rebut and present the the refuting evedince.

BTW, there are 127 different interpretations of the Bible because you have 125 or so unversed readers making their assumptions of what the answer is. When/if you have a trained individual with an intimate knowledge of the book then it is very easy to understand.
A parellel might be our justice system. The law, in its raw form is difficult to understand. You ever heard of a sh!thouse lawyer? These are the guys that sit and tell you, "If that cop didn't have his marker lights on at night, while on the shoulder, you can get out of the speeding ticket." This is a person that knows something of the law but does not fully comprehend its meaning. That is why we require judges to interpret the law in court for us.
I don't need to define what was imagined. If a book is fiction, I don't set out to prove otherwise. If a book is said to be non-fiction, then I seek evidence to prove it. I don't need to seek proof that Anne Rice's "Queen of the Damned" is fiction, because no one is claiming it's non-fiction, and no one is harmed from it's pretense.

As for the interpretation, are you saying all those denominations within christianity outside of your own are false due to mis-interpretation? Is your denomination the only one with qualified interpreters?

Using law is not exactly a parrallel comparision but close. Our law system has loop holes. Lawyers find ways around the rules by using these loopholes. At the end of the day, armed robbery is still armed robbery in criminal Justice, everybody knows that. In Christianity, a verse can be twisted to mean more than one thing or non-pertaining to the follower of that denomination even when clearly stated. Whats the verse in Deuteronomy that states a woman shall not where anything that pertains to a man? in Pentacostal, that is interpreted as blue jeans, therefore woman are not allowed to wear pants of any kind. Yet in baptistism, catholiscm, etc, say it does not pertain at all due to either being part of a story, being in the old testament or in simply in reference to something other article of clothing. The bible is full of these examples.
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 01:26 PM
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I need to stop skipping posts within threads.

I meant someone already beat you to writing the bible, but ah well.
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 05:16 PM
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I meant someone already beat you to writing the bible, but ah well.
I thought you were speaking of my CBS reference. lol.
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood
I don't need to define what was imagined. If a book is fiction, I don't set out to prove otherwise. If a book is said to be non-fiction, then I seek evidence to prove it. I don't need to seek proof that Anne Rice's "Queen of the Damned" is fiction, because no one is claiming it's non-fiction, and no one is harmed from it's pretense.
So have you proved to yourself that the Bible is fiction? If so please expound.

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As for the interpretation, are you saying all those denominations within christianity outside of your own are false due to mis-interpretation? Is your denomination the only one with qualified interpreters?
No, the issues that seperate most denominations within Evangelical circles are not great and most all fall within the pale of orthodoxy. Additionally, each different denomination has their own style of worship (singing, preaching, etc...) I choose Baptist because it is what I am comfortable with. I am not comfortable in a Pentacostal church because I personally think that too much attention is given to glossolalia. Yes that is a difference in both denomination and interpretation. Yet both paths lead to Jesus Christ as the Saviour of humanity.

Quote:
Using law is not exactly a parrallel comparision but close. Our law system has loop holes. Lawyers find ways around the rules by using these loopholes. At the end of the day, armed robbery is still armed robbery in criminal Justice, everybody knows that. In Christianity, a verse can be twisted to mean more than one thing or non-pertaining to the follower of that denomination even when clearly stated. Whats the verse in Deuteronomy that states a woman shall not where anything that pertains to a man? in Pentacostal, that is interpreted as blue jeans, therefore woman are not allowed to wear pants of any kind. Yet in baptistism, catholiscm, etc, say it does not pertain at all due to either being part of a story, being in the old testament or in simply in reference to something other article of clothing. The bible is full of these examples.
No it is not an exact paralell, no analogy is. Again big whoop about the jeans, no big controversial issue there. I know that was just an off the top of the head example but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any real significant difference in core doctrine.

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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 08:38 PM
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So have you proved to yourself that the Bible is fiction? If so please expound.
I don't have to prove it fiction, there's no evidence to prove it to be non-fiction, therefore it's fiction.

Quote:
No it is not an exact paralell, no analogy is. Again big whoop about the jeans, no big controversial issue there. I know that was just an off the top of the head example but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any real significant difference in core doctrine.

Of course the core doctrine will be the same, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be christianity. Your grasping for the sake of arguement by generalizing everything as if there isn't a difference. When in fact, if you follow one over another, your life, depending on the orthodox, will be vastly different than that of someone in another orthodox.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 10:49 PM
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I don't have to prove it fiction, there's no evidence to prove it to be non-fiction, therefore it's fiction.
There is proof. Which do you prefer, archeological, historical, textual, which? To be honest with you I think no matter the amount of evidence you'd still not consider it.

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Of course the core doctrine will be the same, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be christianity.
Not always the case. Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism fall outside of Christian orthodoxy, yet they'd be the first to call themselves Christian. Both these religions are so riddled with error it befuddles me that anyone can legitimize them.

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Your grasping for the sake of arguement...
Me grasping? Your chief argument for the Bible's falsity is based solely on your desire for it to be just that. I can load a stack of evidence from floor to ceiling supporting the claims of the Bible yet, your only support is your own circular reasoning?


"It is fiction."
"How do you know that it is fiction?"
"Because it is not a true story."
"Can this be substantiated?"
"I don't have to because it is fiction?"


Quote:
...by generalizing everything as if there isn't a difference. When in fact, if you follow one over another, your life, depending on the orthodox, will be vastly different than that of someone in another orthodox.
I never said there was no difference. What I thought I clearly stated was that the differences that do exsist do not amount to much. What they do divide, in most cases, is the method in which people worship. Now there are instances where in some denominations, alleged to be Christian, will throw in there own eisegesis in the mix. The old Church of Christ use to do this when they suggested that if a person did not belong to the actual Church of Christ then they could not be saved. There is nothing in scripture to substantiate this.
There are still other examples out there but the constraints of time do not allow me to go further. If you have a specific question I'd be more than happy to address it.

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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 12:44 PM
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There is proof. Which do you prefer, archeological, historical, textual, which? To be honest with you I think no matter the amount of evidence you'd still not consider it.
You have archaeological proof that God exists? This whole time the world has been arguing for nothing.

Quote:
Not always the case. Both Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism fall outside of Christian orthodoxy, yet they'd be the first to call themselves Christian. Both these religions are so riddled with error it befuddles me that anyone can legitimize them.
Jehovah's Witnesses are not of christian orthodox and neither is Mormonism. Any Jehovah Witness that tells you otherwise does not know his or her religion, same goes for Mormons.


Quote:
Me grasping? Your chief argument for the Bible's falsity is based solely on your desire for it to be just that. I can load a stack of evidence from floor to ceiling supporting the claims of the Bible yet, your only support is your own circular reasoning?
Again, show me this proof you have? You keep talking about it but i've yet to see any.
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 08:16 PM
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You have archaeological proof that God exists? This whole time the world has been arguing for nothing.


Jehovah's Witnesses are not of christian orthodox and neither is Mormonism. Any Jehovah Witness that tells you otherwise does not know his or her religion, same goes for Mormons.




Again, show me this proof you have? You keep talking about it but i've yet to see any.
There is archeological proof that the Bible is what it claims to be. If you can prove the Bible acurate then you can assume it's claims to be the same. That is not to say that faith is not required because it obviously is. But less faith than the alternative, IMO.

I've offered no proof because you've not asked for it.

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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-03-2004, 09:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SVT93Style
And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !
Where exactly did you get that 'verse' from? Id like to know, because its not from the Quran I can tell you that.

9:11 - "But if they repent, perform their prayer, and give charity, then they are your brethren in religion. In this way we explain the verses in detail for a people who know."

Know what your talking about before you go and say stupid things like that.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasim05
Where exactly did you get that 'verse' from? Id like to know, because its not from the Quran I can tell you that.

9:11 - "But if they repent, perform their prayer, and give charity, then they are your brethren in religion. In this way we explain the verses in detail for a people who know."

Know what your talking about before you go and say stupid things like that.
Welcome to last week. If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have seen that this had already been stated.

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No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 09:19 AM
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Welcome to last week. If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have seen that this had already been stated.

Ummm... actually, it was closer to two weeks
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 11:15 PM
 
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all roads lead to heaven, only one lets you stay there!

Most ppl don't agree with this but heres my 2 cents for archaeological proof. It is widly known in the realm of science that the rotation rate of the earth is slowing down. You know, we have leap years for that. Ok so take the rate at which it is slowing down and multiply it back several hundered years. Now do it several thousand years. Now several million years. Now 4.6e9 years. What do you get. Well have yet to crunch #'s but I'm sure it would have been too fast for life to form.

Try to account for coastal erosion rate since Pangea. That'll blow your mind.

Now to that issue of those gaint lizards we call dinosaurs. Seen any bones? Well when God created the first oak tree, I think that if I had cut off a branch of the tree I'd have found rings there. Those rings would show that tree had been around for years and years when, infact, God created the tree as though it already had a history. Maybe he did the same thing to the earth.

Ok well like I said, I aint trying to start my own religion or nuthin. I just like reading interesting conversations and throwing in my two cents to see ppls reactions. Besides if you could prove it, why would they call it faith? be cool fools-
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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-07-2004, 06:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
Welcome to last week. If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have seen that this had already been stated.
Yes, I read the whole thread. Just re-stating it. This kinda stuff gets to me, because im Muslim. I hate when my religion is mis-represented by 1) Extremist groups that ave totally lost the value of Islam and 2) Ignorance.
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-07-2004, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasim05
Yes, I read the whole thread. Just re-stating it. This kinda stuff gets to me, because im Muslim. I hate when my religion is mis-represented by 1) Extremist groups that ave totally lost the value of Islam and 2) Ignorance.
Well, I am glad to see you posting here. Feel free to share your views. Although I disagree with the Islamic religion I will say that the majority of Muslims are good people with the exception of, like you said, extremists. But like most religions, including Christianity, there are going to be people that like that.

Disclaimer:
No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-08-2004, 11:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonDog
Well, I am glad to see you posting here. Feel free to share your views. Although I disagree with the Islamic religion I will say that the majority of Muslims are good people with the exception of, like you said, extremists. But like most religions, including Christianity, there are going to be people that like that.

No problem. Never really come into this forum. But there are some interesting posts. I am very knowledgeable about Islam and the Quran, and also pretty knowledgeable about Christianty. My fathers side of the family is Muslim, and my mothers, Catholic. So, I have a very good understanding of both religions from both points of view. Although I am a bit biased, of course , being Muslim.
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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2004, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasim05
No problem. Never really come into this forum. But there are some interesting posts. I am very knowledgeable about Islam and the Quran, and also pretty knowledgeable about Christianty. My fathers side of the family is Muslim, and my mothers, Catholic. So, I have a very good understanding of both religions from both points of view. Although I am a bit biased, of course , being Muslim.
Wow... that is interesting. It's a shame that some idiots are out there giving your religion a bad name. I'm still having to hear grief about the Crusades!
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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-01-2004, 01:53 PM
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If you really want to dig deep, and have some time download these. They are pretty informative.
Total there is about 15-20 hrs of info. I've watched about 12-13 hrs here and there.

http://www.drdino.com/Downloads/Debate/vids/index.jsp
http://www.drdino.com/Downloads/Seminar/mp3/index.jsp

Formerly on the Submarine USS Maryland SSBN 738G
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