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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Leave it to God to cure sickness

Well, I was really disturbed by this conversation i overheard the other day. I was working (I wait tables) and a church group had a reservation for early that morning. They were my only table so I stuck around a lot and heard a lot of what they were saying.

Well, this absolutely boggles my mind where the logic in this was. They were speaking of a middle aged woman that needed her appendix taken out because it was deemed to burst within the next couple days. Well, she went to seek advice from the church members and they came to the conclusion that the doctors were wrong. They believed they could pray and God would take care of her sickness and heal her. What a load of crock... Do you really think that God can magically save her appendix? Why on earth would you turn to god and prayers instead of modern science where they can correct the problem without risking your life?

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 05:30 AM
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I've had my appendix out and when it gets close to bursting, you will be praying while you're driving to the emergency room. People like that are insane and give Christians a bad name. But in essence they are right, God gave the doctor the abitltiy to do the operation. God is taking care of the problem just not the way they think. Having said that, I am one that believes in the healing power of prayer, I've seen it work. If the women was stranded on a deserted Island with no way to get to a doctor and she had faith God would and could heal her, she'd get healed no doubt about it.[unless it is her time to go] It amazes me how some Christians don't give God credit for what he's done in the natural while always waiting on God to do something supernatural. What do they think God is a circus monkey, doing tricks for their entertainment, laziness and weak faith.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 09:48 AM
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Sounds like Christian Scientists. Those guys have got to be the biggest fruitcakes on the planet.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 10:31 AM
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First of all, this is not smart. We have medical teams that are prepared to handle this situation. Kind of reminds me of the joke about the guy on top of the mountain when the world was flooding.. after he died, God told him that he "sent three boats". Same deal. As for your question..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
What a load of crock... Do you really think that God can magically save her appendix?
Yes, absolutely. He doesn't have to zap the appendix to make it better, he can rely on the medical team that he has infused with knowledge to do it.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg

Well, this absolutely boggles my mind where the logic in this was. They were speaking of a middle aged woman that needed her appendix taken out because it was deemed to burst within the next couple days. Well, she went to seek advice from the church members and they came to the conclusion that the doctors were wrong. They believed they could pray and God would take care of her sickness and heal her.
Are you sure you heard them right? I'm not saying it isn't possible, because there are people like that. Are you sure they were not saying that they should pray for her for healing before she goes to the doctor for surgery? That's typically how it is done at the Churches I've been to.

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What a load of crock... Do you really think that God can magically save her appendix? Why on earth would you turn to god and prayers instead of modern science where they can correct the problem without risking your life?
Yes I do believe that God can supernaturally save her appendix. God can and does heal people today.

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.


But God does not always heal supernaturally. God mostly works through people. Like T-bird said, he can guide the doctors hands during the surgery. It is not uncommon to also pray for the doctor before a procedure as well as the patient. But Christians are not told to not go to doctors and take advantage of the modern science and medicine. They are only commanded to trust God in all that they do and go through.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by talisman
Sounds like Christian Scientists. Those guys have got to be the biggest fruitcakes on the planet.

Huh? How so?
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by breadfan35
Are you sure you heard them right? I'm not saying it isn't possible, because there are people like that. Are you sure they were not saying that they should pray for her for healing before she goes to the doctor for surgery? That's typically how it is done at the Churches I've been to.



Yes I do believe that God can supernaturally save her appendix. God can and does heal people today.

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.


But God does not always heal supernaturally. God mostly works through people. Like T-bird said, he can guide the doctors hands during the surgery. It is not uncommon to also pray for the doctor before a procedure as well as the patient. But Christians are not told to not go to doctors and take advantage of the modern science and medicine. They are only commanded to trust God in all that they do and go through.


Agreed!
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 08:54 PM
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There is a guy who used to go to the same church as me out in Florida. He had to go in and have a tumor removed inside his stomach (I think). Anyway, the whole church prayed for a healing. But at the sametime he was also instructed to keep his appointment. Once he got in the operating room and they cut him open, they found no tumor. Now some would say that there was probably a mistake made in the first place. I choose to believe that it was a miracle.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 09:50 PM
 
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There's a group of people out where I live who think like that. Some parents even refused to give their children immunizations because they believed God would prevent them from getting sick if their life was right with Him. They all get together one night a week in my neighborhood for their services. An even bigger backwards twist to this is the man who does the sermons is a Family Physician who practices medicine when he's not preaching. But I've known the family for years and went to a private Christian school with his kids, and as far as I can tell they all truly believe. It's just been in the last few years they've taken this odd side path.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 10:01 PM
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Num 21:5 And the people spoke against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Num 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Something similar to this I would guess, the symbol of the American Medical Association (AMA).



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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadfan35
Huh? How so?

They refuse any kind if medical attention, believing god will cure them if they are meant to be cured. Now, I dont believe in god, so its a moot point from my perspecive, but if I did, I think it would be pretty logical to think that god also created medical science to help save my sorry butt instead of just letting me die for something that is easily remedeed. I'd go out of my way to do anything to save anyones life. I think that people who wouldn't do the same are pretty much slapping their god in the face. But, what do I know? I'm an atheist.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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sooooo....

to reacap what you church guys think. God created people. He also created ideas and beliefs in peoples heads to come up with new technology and advances in science which will ultimatly lead to a doctor saving someones life. God is responsible for every thought and action. Is that right?

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 06:09 PM
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God gives us the knowledge we need to survive. It is up to us how we use that knowledge. You see, we only have one "right", the right to choose between right and wrong. Some people throughout the years have chosen to use the knowledge given to them for evil (wrong choice) and some have used it for good (right choice).

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-13-2004, 02:45 PM
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I choose to believe that it was a miracle.
What was the purpose of miracles???
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2004, 05:44 PM
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What was the purpose of miracles???
Build faith.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 01:24 AM
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The bible says, "by his stripes you "were" healed". "Were" being the key word. We were healed over 2000 years ago. People shouldn't be fighting to get healed, they should be fighting because they are already healed. I mean serious, who do you think has the better credentials, our creator (God) or someone that went to college for 8 years(doctor)? I'm going to lean towards God. Healing all has to do with how much faith you have. When someone doesn't get healed it is not Gods fault, God has already done his part, people have to recieve their healing through faith. The reason some people aren't healed is because a lack of faith. Praying and believing for someone to be healed needs a higher level of faith for most people because it isn't an everyday thing to see or do in most cases. There are different levels of faith. I believe it is Gods will to heal all of the time, everytime, though some Christians disagree. I know of people that will try to believe for someone to get healed and when they don't see it happen they'll say, "I guess it wasn't Gods will." Well, I believe that they are wrong and that most of the time those people just didn't have enough faith. People can confuse faith with desire when it comes to healings. Sure nobody wants to see a loved one sick or dying, but alot of times instead of believing and recieving that they are healed, they say please heal whomever and beg like they have to twist Gods arm to do it. Now I don't see anything wrong with going to a Doctor while you are believing to be healed. Because after all the Doctor is your only other option. Say for example, my dad had a heart attack about 5-7years ago. He was having problems with his arm going numb and he couldn't sleep so he drove to the hospital to get checked out. Well come to find out he was having a heart attack and the doctors put him in ICU. The next day the doctor came in and told him that a 1/3 of his heart was dead and would never work again, and my dad said to him, "I'm a believer and God has healed me". The doctor with a sarcastic face was like sure and walked off. The next day the doctor ran more tests, and said that he has never seen this happen before, and found that the 1/3 part of his heart that was dead the day before turn into just a 1/4 of his heart was dead, my dad said to him, "I told you I'm a believer." The doctor again walked off in disbelief. Then come the next day the doctor ran more tests and said I don't understand it, your heart is fully recovered and working fine. You see, my dad went to the doctor while believing that God would heal him, and God did, not the doctor. To the doctor my dads heart was unhealable, but through my dad and my families faith and prayeres he was already healed, and it came to pass.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 02:31 PM
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heres a story they once told me

Their was a boat and there was lets say 5 people, the boat hit a rock and started to sink the people then began to be rescued, but one somehow fell in the water and was driven farther from the boat. So then a lifeguard threw him a lifesaver, the man said "no my god will save me", couple of minutes passed and a helicopter with a ladder came down and told him to climb the ladder the man real religious said "no my god will save me." The man kept getting farther away, and the last choice was to point a pole for him to grab and pull himself to the boat but still he said "no my god will save me." Needless to say the man drowned.

The man went to heaven and met god, he then asked god why did you not save me, i was a loyal person, i was always at church i always gave my offering and god replied "what do you mean i gave you 3chances to be saved but you didnt take them."

point of my story is god wasnt going to come down and save him by his hand, but he did send people to help the man!

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior
heres a story they once told me

Their was a boat and there was lets say 5 people, the boat hit a rock and started to sink the people then began to be rescued, but one somehow fell in the water and was driven farther from the boat. So then a lifeguard threw him a lifesaver, the man said "no my god will save me", couple of minutes passed and a helicopter with a ladder came down and told him to climb the ladder the man real religious said "no my god will save me." The man kept getting farther away, and the last choice was to point a pole for him to grab and pull himself to the boat but still he said "no my god will save me." Needless to say the man drowned.

The man went to heaven and met god, he then asked god why did you not save me, i was a loyal person, i was always at church i always gave my offering and god replied "what do you mean i gave you 3chances to be saved but you didnt take them."

point of my story is god wasnt going to come down and save him by his hand, but he did send people to help the man!
lmao... he still dies in the end because he depended on God to save him. In this case it seems God has sent people to direct the lady away from medical attention so she can die. Go figure

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 10:33 PM
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I havent read this entire forum, but it sounds like the people from the church were "word of faith" wihich believe that if you pray enough or have enough faith , you can make anything happen. WRONG ANSWER! Nothing happens that isnt part of God s plan or will. Now it is awesome that they had faith, and pray. But, that is why God has placed doctors and nurses here. Those people put themselves above God by their faith, which is not right, because God has final and best answer. I am all about faith healing (james 5), but there is a way to do it. And nobody forget that our Jesus is able to do exceedingly and abundantly abouve all things we ask and pray.( eph 3 20). You need to use your discernment and also a little common sense. God Bless.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-26-2004, 12:05 AM
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I havent read this entire forum, but it sounds like the people from the church were "word of faith" wihich believe that if you pray enough or have enough faith , you can make anything happen. WRONG ANSWER! Nothing happens that isnt part of God s plan or will. Now it is awesome that they had faith, and pray. But, that is why God has placed doctors and nurses here. Those people put themselves above God by their faith, which is not right, because God has final and best answer. I am all about faith healing (james 5), but there is a way to do it. And nobody forget that our Jesus is able to do exceedingly and abundantly abouve all things we ask and pray.( eph 3 20). You need to use your discernment and also a little common sense. God Bless.

I'm not saying "anything is possible"(but there is alot clearly written in scripture) if you have faith and pray. There is alot of scripture to back up that it is Gods will to heal every time and none of it says through a doctor. There were doctors back in the day of Jesus, but you didn't hear of him calling the doctors to heal someone. He laid hands on the sick and they were healed. Jesus also said, "You too shall do these things, yet more abundantly". The bible talks alot about faith/healing, I just don't buy it that God sent doctors here to do the healing for him. It's just a scapegoat to say, "I guess it wasn't Gods will to heal this time." when it is clearly written that it is Gods will to heal all of the time. Believing that way will kill your faith, because during prayer all you will be doing is thinking "is it Gods will this time?" and that is not faith. God doesn't heal Jane and let Joe die just because he likes Jane better. It is all about if you have faith. I'm not saying that I wouldn't go to a doctor if I was seriously injured, but I would be praying and believing that I was healed on the way there. If I wasn't healed by the time I got to the doctor I would let the doctor do his thing, but I would still be praying and believing that I was healed.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-26-2004, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by junior
heres a story they once told me

Their was a boat and there was lets say 5 people, the boat hit a rock and started to sink the people then began to be rescued, but one somehow fell in the water and was driven farther from the boat. So then a lifeguard threw him a lifesaver, the man said "no my god will save me", couple of minutes passed and a helicopter with a ladder came down and told him to climb the ladder the man real religious said "no my god will save me." The man kept getting farther away, and the last choice was to point a pole for him to grab and pull himself to the boat but still he said "no my god will save me." Needless to say the man drowned.

The man went to heaven and met god, he then asked god why did you not save me, i was a loyal person, i was always at church i always gave my offering and god replied "what do you mean i gave you 3chances to be saved but you didnt take them."

point of my story is god wasnt going to come down and save him by his hand, but he did send people to help the man!

Well, it takes alot of faith to walk on water.(just ask Peter)lol That guy just didn't have enough faith. If you don't have the faith you need to grab the pole.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-26-2004, 12:16 AM
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lmao... he still dies in the end because he depended on God to save him. In this case it seems God has sent people to direct the lady away from medical attention so she can die. Go figure


I'm sure there is more to the story than what you heard. The lady was probably going to get prayed on and if she wasn't healed in a timely manner, go to the doctor while still believing. Also, if God sent doctors to heal for him, why do they tell people you have 6 months to live?lol I don't know it may just be me, but I have never read anything in the bible where Jesus said anything like that.lol
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-28-2004, 01:00 PM
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I'm not saying "anything is possible"(but there is alot clearly written in scripture) if you have faith and pray. There is alot of scripture to back up that it is Gods will to heal every time and none of it says through a doctor. There were doctors back in the day of Jesus, but you didn't hear of him calling the doctors to heal someone. He laid hands on the sick and they were healed. Jesus also said, "You too shall do these things, yet more abundantly". The bible talks alot about faith/healing, I just don't buy it that God sent doctors here to do the healing for him. It's just a scapegoat to say, "I guess it wasn't Gods will to heal this time." when it is clearly written that it is Gods will to heal all of the time. Believing that way will kill your faith, because during prayer all you will be doing is thinking "is it Gods will this time?" and that is not faith. God doesn't heal Jane and let Joe die just because he likes Jane better. It is all about if you have faith. I'm not saying that I wouldn't go to a doctor if I was seriously injured, but I would be praying and believing that I was healed on the way there. If I wasn't healed by the time I got to the doctor I would let the doctor do his thing, but I would still be praying and believing that I was healed.
Now you are getting defensive, which is cool. And yes there were doctors back in Christs time, but you have to remember why He was doing it. Because of God the Fathers will. If you have read the Word, you know that Christ prayed that. Now, if Christ had not done the things He did, how would we know that we can call on Him to do these things. I am not against Faith Healing, but you need to be prepared to get no for an answer (from God) and sometimes those things that have been denied in the past, could possibly or right out yes, been taken care of by a doctor. You should not dismiss the fact that there are doctors here , but maybe we need to do more reserch and find out if our doctor is a Christ follower. That would be the ultimate. Because we are hear to represent , or be a reflection of Christ. God is not limited by anything. Hope this helps
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-28-2004, 01:03 PM
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Well, it takes alot of faith to walk on water.(just ask Peter)lol That guy just didn't have enough faith. If you don't have the faith you need to grab the pole.

That is why Peter fell after the first couple of steps, because he doubted and looked down. That is why alot of Christians fail, is because they are not doing as commanded. "We should live by Faith, not by sight"
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-28-2004, 04:57 PM
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Now you are getting defensive, which is cool. And yes there were doctors back in Christs time, but you have to remember why He was doing it. Because of God the Fathers will. If you have read the Word, you know that Christ prayed that. Now, if Christ had not done the things He did, how would we know that we can call on Him to do these things. I am not against Faith Healing, but you need to be prepared to get no for an answer (from God) and sometimes those things that have been denied in the past, could possibly or right out yes, been taken care of by a doctor. You should not dismiss the fact that there are doctors here , but maybe we need to do more reserch and find out if our doctor is a Christ follower. That would be the ultimate. Because we are hear to represent , or be a reflection of Christ. God is not limited by anything. Hope this helps

Oh no, I'm not getting defensive.lol I am just explaining my point with some examples. Why should we prepare to get a "no" for an answer? The bible cleary states that "by his stripes we were healed". It doesn't say "by his stripes we are sometimes healed". We were healed over 2000 years ago, so we don't have to beg and plead to get healed, all we have to do is by faith recieve what God has already given to us. I don't believe it would be a reflection of Christ if we put more faith in doctors than in God. Also, God is limited and can not do "anything". God is limited by his own word.(example: God can not lie.) Everything that God is going to do for us is in the bible, so you shouldn't expect any more or less. So, since Gods word says that we are already healed, then you should know that if you don not get healed it isn't Gods fault, because God can not lie. I'm not saying that the faith thing is easy, but it is true. There is alot to learn when it comes to faith, and I will be the first to admit that I don't see all of my prayers answered. But, I do see most of my prayers answered. I learn alot when my prayers aren't answered, because God shows me where I went wrong in my faith and prayers. I don't want you to think I am bashing on you or trying to make you look wrong, because that is not my intentions. I am just merely trying to open your eyes to the blessings that God has given us.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-28-2004, 05:05 PM
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That is why Peter fell after the first couple of steps, because he doubted and looked down. That is why alot of Christians fail, is because they are not doing as commanded. "We should live by Faith, not by sight"

That is correct. So obviously the guy that died in the post mentioned earlier didn't have the faith or he would have walked home.lol You know that it has to take alot of faith if you see Jesus walking on water and he tells you that you can walk on water with him, and you fall in.lol I think Peter couldn't believe his eyes that Jesus was walking on water, much less have faith that he could do it too.lol
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-29-2004, 12:47 AM
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My dad saw his 300lb 6'6" cousin walk on water one night when a water mocassin dropped from a tree into their boat...

Doh!!
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-29-2004, 12:48 AM
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My dad saw his 300lb 6'6" cousin walk on water one night when a water mocassin dropped from a tree into their boat...

Now I would bet he was doing more than walking!!LOL
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