?Homosexuality? I need help. - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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?Homosexuality? I need help.

I dont know where to begin so I will just start to type. I have a passion in my heart that burns for God and Christ. I think about it all day every day, I see God all around me in Joy and in Suffering. I believe that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God, I feel it is a perversion of God's plan, and to me seems unatural because it is used only for pleasure and not for creation. I believe that sex is a gift from God that was meant to be "had" only in the bonds of a marriage between a man and a women, I believe God is a lover and a persuer of the human sole just a we (men) are persuers of a women, and God showed us this through this gift. In a homosexual or hetrosexual relationship the consiquences of sex before marriage are numerous and we see this all around us, Kids having Kids, Disease, Heartbreak etc....I don't believe that God wants to keep us from the pleasures of sex but he doesn't want us to experience the pains that surround it when people use his Gift in a way that is wrong.

I do not hate homosexuals, there are those that would call themseleves our brothers and sisters that would hold up sign's that say "God hates gays" "It's abomination in the eyes of God" but I say God loves homosexuals, but at the same time the lifestyle is sinful, just as some have problems with drugs, or alcohol, etc....it is the same thing to me.

My problem lies in people saying that homosexuality is genetic. If this is the case then this is a complete mockery of the word of God. For how could God create something and condem that person for something which they have no control over? That is like saying God dispies people with brown hair or freckles, there is nothing you can do about that? I personally believe that people who are homosexuals have an identity crisis, they are not sure of who or what they are. When you read about homosexuals or you hear someone call into "LoveLine" and say they are gay, the first thing that Doctor Drew asks is "where you abused when you were younger" and nine times out of 10 they say yes. I feel that something tramtic has happen to this person at a key point in there development and this cause this identiy crisis.

I need help in understanding this issue. Please express your views and help undestand both sides.
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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 01:14 PM
 
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it is not genetic. its a moral dilema that is very sad.
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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Could you elaberate on this a little more...
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 01:20 PM
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Touchy subject... homosexuals are sinners just like us. Homosexuality is a sin, but a forgivable one. Just like any other sin, they need to repent and turn towards God. Let them know that there is hope for change. It is not genetic by any means. How could a choice be genetic? If I say blonde-haired women attract me more than brunettes, that wouldn't be genetic. It's just a choice. And given our free will, each of us has our own choice. It's up to each one of us to make the right one. As Christians, we should also show others what God wants of them.

God tells us His intention for human sexual relationships is limited to heterosexual union between man and woman in marriage (Genesis 1:27-28; 2:18, 23-24). Godís plan is for us to be one flesh in marriage, male and female.

Hoped that at least helped a little.
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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 01:27 PM
 
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naturally as human beings we are attracted to the opposite sex. this is how God made us. homosexuality is not natural and not instinctive. homosexuality is talked about, seen, and the thought of it is put into the minds of those who become homosexual people and the way they are brought up and raised(many without fathers) plays a big role. I believe a father has a huge role in giving a young man growing up his sexual identity. why isnt homosexuality natural? i dont think its natural because of this....put a man and woman together alone on a deserted island who were never educated at all. its natural they will hav sex and children. put 2 men on this island who have never been exposed and educated about homosexuality and they wont even consider touching eachother. do you see any natives in south america and africa or tribes and societies that live in traditional ways have issues with homosexuality? no. because they arent aware of it to begin with and in todays world we are taught in schools how it is ok to be gay. the more civilized a society is, the more homosexuality there seems to be. look at the United States. hmmm. now look at huge city of millions in China that still lives in very traditional ways and I bet you the amount of homosexuals you see there will be very little compared to a big modernized city here in the US. so basically to sum it up what I'm trying to say here is that people are not born gay. they are given the impression that it is ok and most importantly just exposed to it. thats just my opinion and belief
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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 03:41 PM
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I am just going to throw this out there and see what people think. First I want to say that I have a brother that is gay so I totally understand how God says that we are supposed to hate the sin but love the sinner.

Second, I believe that it is possible for a person to be born with to much estrogen (in the case of a male) that would lead them to make incorrect choices regarding sexual relations, but this does not make it any less of a sin. Case in point, I knew a guy about 10 years ago that was taking testosterone because he had to much estrogen. He recognized that there was a problem and got it corrected, he make the right decision. I believe people can be born with this "defect" because there is sin in the world but like everything, there is an answer to the problem. Jesus Christ can and will heal a person from these physical and mental defects if they would just ask. Many people may not know that Dennis Jernigan (whom I believe to be one of the greatest praise and worship leaders of our time) was a homosexual until God saved him and delivered him from his sin.

Back to my brother, he knows that it is wrong but he is so bound by it that he cant break the habit that he has created for himself. Mainly because he is trying to do it on his own instead of asking for God to help him. I have talked to him many times and he knows what the bible says about it but I am not really sure that he believes totally that Gods power is immeasurable and miracles still happen today.

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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the respones guys.
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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 04:51 PM
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This can be a tough subject for Christians and people in general. I'm no Bible scholar, but for my recollection nowhere in the Bible does it say that to have homosexual feelings or thoughts is wrong. It does say that the act of homosexual sex is a sin. But then again it also says that premarital heterosexual sex is sinful also. Now the Bible does tell us to keep our minds and thoughts on things that are Holy and pure. It tells us not to look at another with lust. (that goes for hetero or homosexuals) But we all know that there are times you see a beautiful girl and whats one of the first things that pops into your head? Probably something that shouldn't be there. So in that sense, any lustful thoughts are sinful regardless of sexuality.

So is Homosexuality genetic. I don't know. But I'm not going to say it's not possible. Think about it like this. Some people have a problem with anger. They get mad easily, they may take it out on others, and even get violent when they get mad. Now, that person was born and grew up with an anger problem. True, some might have learned it growing up, but there are many times people grow up in loving households and end up angry people. Perhaps that anger or ability to anger easily is something they were born with. Now, anger in it's self is not a sinful emotion. But it can be taken to a sinful place when one lets it run the show and doesn't put it under control. For many that does not come easy and they have to work at it and ask God for help. Eventually some people can rid themselves of their anger/rage with Gods help. Others never really get rid of it, they just learn to control it and keep it under wraps.

The same scenario can apply with alcoholism. A person can not know they are an alcoholic until they take their first drink. Then they end up with a problem because they can control their urge to want alcohol. Therefore it is not evil to assume that homosexuality may be an affliction someone is born with. Am I sure? No. It's possible. But no matter what, Jesus can heal them and give them strength to stand up to their addictions/ urges and help them defeat them.
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 05:19 PM
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I have a friend I've know for 20 yrs. I couldn't stand him for a long time because he is gay. Then I learned more about him and his childhood. The rest of the kids would be playing with toy guns and GI Joes and he would play with dolls. I could go own with more examples, but the point is he was different from the get go. I've watched him over the years and being gay is a terrible life, he believes in Jesus and I know he would change if he could. There is a differece between perversion and homosexuality. One's sin the other is in my opinion a birth defect.
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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 12:56 AM
 
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i believe that homosexuality can occur two different ways. i do believe that a person can be born a homosexual. i think that there is more to homosexuality than we know. if a person is born with aids, spina bifida, hydrocephalis or any other disease we take the proper steps to either "fix" what is wrong or repair to the best abilty of the doctor(s). to me, homosexuality can be the same way, we just do not notice it as quickly. "how can God let someone be born with something like this?" how can God let someone be born with the other diseases i listed? why do bad things happen to good people? the answer is the same. because of the sin that is in this world. it has an effect on all of us. sickness and disease (of any kind ) are just examples of that. now, wether the disease (homosexuality) is because of imbalances or molecualr structure or something being "off" i am not sure. not a doctor. i do know that homosexuality WAS considered a disease of the mind by the medical association until either the late 70's or 80's, i do not remember.
there is also the issue of generational curses that would not make a person gay at birth, but would make it alot easier for that person to become gay if in a certian environment.
the other way i believe, is that a person can be a product of their environment. these are just examples, not prejudices. but, a kid in south central LA has a good chance of not graduating high school and working mim wage his entire life. a kid in beverly hills has a good chance of going to college and getting a good job. and so on. a person raised in a homosexual environment has a good chance of being gay. or if people continualy feed your mind by saying you are gay. because of feminen manurisms.
then again, a person can also choose to be gay. we have free will. a person can choose to have sex with animals, trees, and food, why not nother man?
do any of these circumstances make it right on these eyes of God? no. if a man is a serial killer and gets convicted for killing thousands of people and is found to have a mental dissorder, is he put bake out on the streets as a free man because he couldn;t help it, he was born that way? i mean come on, how dare we judge a person, if that is the way they are born.
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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 01:24 AM
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In the grand scheme of things I do not believe god placed me on this earth to judge others. With that said I accept all people for who they are. In the end the path to the promise land is filled with saints and sinners. Just as the path to hell is filled with evil people and relatively good people who lacked the relationship with god.
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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:36 AM
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your a homo in the closet!!! lol

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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:37 AM
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your a homo in the closet!!! lol
You're...
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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:39 AM
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its 330 IN THE MORNING MR ENGLISH TEACHER! WHO CARE'S

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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:40 AM
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No profanity in here, please...
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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:43 AM
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WERE all adults. i think these panseys can handle a f-bomb!

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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 02:52 AM
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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 12:41 PM
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WERE all adults. i think these panseys can handle a f-bomb!

an F-bomb.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 10:21 PM
 
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God loves the sinner, yet hates the sin.

Homosexuality has been prooven to NOT be genetic. It's a choice you make. What is genetic is hetorosexuality. Simple.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-01-2004, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dr0pT0p
God loves the sinner, yet hates the sin.

Homosexuality has been prooven to NOT be genetic. It's a choice you make. What is genetic is hetorosexuality. Simple.

How can you say Homosexuality has been proven to not be genetic. Where did you hear, read, or see this?
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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-02-2004, 09:29 PM
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Exactly, can you post up a reference for this. I had no idea that it was proven one way or another.

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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 12:38 AM
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Not sure whether it has proven one way or the other but I'd tend to think that it could not be genetic. Natural Selection would not allow the gene to be passed on could it? Obviously, homosexuals do not reproduce so the gene is not passed on that way. Of course there are many people that are able to repress their homosexual tendencies and are in hetrosexual relationships. But that can not account for the relative explosion of homosexuality over the past few decades.
I would say that it is a psychological condition rather than a physical one.

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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 01:28 AM
 
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natural selection wouldn't allow it to pass on, but it would take a long time for natural selection to run its coarse
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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 07:05 PM
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Proof

The only solid proof that I have heard is this.

This was a pregnet lady, that was having twins. They were monogyzoic or something like that, which means they came from one sperm and one egg....opposed to have two eggs and two sperms.
One of the kids ended up being gay and the other wasn't.

Point being they would have the exact genetic code, same DNA.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 07:43 PM
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The only solid proof that I have heard is this.

This was a pregnet lady, that was having twins. They were monogyzoic or something like that, which means they came from one sperm and one egg....opposed to have two eggs and two sperms.
One of the kids ended up being gay and the other wasn't.

Point being they would have the exact genetic code, same DNA.
You can't base all instances on this. Although I believe that a good majority of gay relations is by choice I also believe that "it is possible for a person to be born with to much estrogen (in the case of a male) that would lead them to make incorrect choices regarding sexual relations". I think that there is both a mental defect (where choice is concerned) and a physical defect (where estrogen is concerned), both of which can and should be corrected.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-09-2004, 03:47 PM
 
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ok

my brother is gay.. and trust me it is genetic he has been gay since birth..
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-11-2004, 03:40 PM
 
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homosexuality reproduced?

Actually homosexuality could be passed on genetically because gay men do marry women and have children, and vise versa. This is because society forces them to live in a steriotypical role. If gays lived in their natural state man with man and women with women then they couldn't reproduce and pass on this supposed gene.
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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 05:06 AM
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I still hold to it being a birth defect not so much as a gay gene thats passed down. That doesn't even make sense to me, even though I know certian genes can skip over a generation to another. Grandfather has it, son doesn't, grandson gets it. I've know two families that had two of the children be gay, but I think thats rare. One where identical twins, both died of aids. I still think it's a roll of the dice and truly is a birth defect like any other mutation of the fetus.
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 07:06 AM
 
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Even a 'psychological' decision could be considered both physical and something with which a person was born.
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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-19-2004, 02:28 AM
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In the 1940s
When a sexologist asked homosexuals "how they got that way" only 9 percent believed they were born that way.

In 1970
979 San Fransican Gays were asked the same question and it resulted in nearly the same percentage.

In 1983, at a point when the Gay Rights movent was becoming more popularized, the number jumped to 35%.

And today, well most homosexuals would suggest that they were born that way.

I think those results speak for themselves.

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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-25-2004, 10:48 AM
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i dont think its a genetec thing, i think its by choice
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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-25-2004, 03:52 PM
 
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definitely a choice having learned this from those that were formerly gay...
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-25-2004, 04:38 PM
 
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There have been numerous studies that suggest there are differences in the physiology of homosexuals when compared to their heterosexual counterparts.

Now, some of you may denounce these studies because they do not fit your beLIEf pattern.

As mentioned earlier, even if it all boils down to 'choice', then the existence of a physiological cause in the brain, that makes some people more predisposed than others to make this 'choice'. This physiological cause could be something with which a person was born.
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-25-2004, 11:48 PM
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The only problem with this theory is that brain physiology changes with thought pattern.

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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-26-2004, 12:02 AM
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Did you know?

That in the 1940s a sexologist conducted a survey to find out "How they (homosexuals) got that way."

Of those claiming that they were born homosexual; 9% said they were born homosexual.

The same survey was conducted in the 1970s; nearly the same statisic resulted.

In 1983, amid the gay rights movment, the results expanded to 30% claiming to have been born gay.

Today it would be my conjecture that 90% of homosexuals would claim that they were born homosexual.

You can draw your own conclusions as to what these results indicate.

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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-30-2004, 06:46 PM
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in the bible it states over and over, MAN AND WOMEN.. not MAN AND MAN, or WOMEN AND WOMEN. it is a sin. but the bible goes by man and women... it would be kinda weird to hear ADAM AND ADAM..

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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 07:24 PM
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by quicstang99
in the bible it states over and over, MAN AND WOMEN.. not MAN AND MAN, or WOMEN AND WOMEN. it is a sin. but the bible goes by man and women... it would be kinda weird to hear ADAM AND ADAM..
Heres a little fire for you.
Quote:
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
Heres a little fire for you.
Not a big deal at all really. Let's disect the verse shall we.



Quote:
Male and female created he them;
Even if "thier name was Adam" it is clear that they were not the same gender.



Quote:
and called their name Adam
Adam in Hebrew means "man". So the verse more acurately should be interpreted "and called their name man" -or- "and called their name mankind"

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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 06:11 PM
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I know that and you know that, but I bet there are many who never even knew that verse existed. Nor did they even know what it really meant.

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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 07:53 PM
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I can't keep it back anymore, the title of this thread has been killing me for weeks.
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
I know that and you know that, but I bet there are many who never even knew that verse existed. Nor did they even know what it really meant.
No, I knew you understood it. I was just beating you to the explination.

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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 09:59 PM
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This is something that I have never understood myself. It is not natural it is not cool. I wonder now if some people say they are guy because it is supposed to be the big thing or bi because it turns some guys on. Sick
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 06:15 AM
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I wonder now if some people say they are guy because it is supposed to be the big thing ...
I say that I am a guy all the time. I like it and would never choose the alternative.

Seriously though, I know what you mean, some people may turn that way because they want to be part of a croud.

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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MoonDog
I say that I am a guy all the time. I like it and would never choose the alternative.

Seriously though, I know what you mean, some people may turn that way because they want to be part of a croud.

Or part of a crowd

Seriously though, I know what both of you mean.
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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 07:45 AM
v2004 rebooted.
 
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Homosexuality is the cool thing to do!
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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Or part of a crowd

Seriously though, I know what both of you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Homosexuality is the cool thing to do!
So does that mean that the stories I have heard about you are true?

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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 07:06 PM
v2004 rebooted.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonDog

So does that mean that the stories I have heard about you are true?
Is this the cucumber story? If so, it was 65% fabrication.
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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-06-2004, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT93Style
My problem lies in people saying that homosexuality is genetic. If this is the case then this is a complete mockery of the word of God. For how could God create something and condem that person for something which they have no control over? That is like saying God dispies people with brown hair or freckles, there is nothing you can do about that? I personally believe that people who are homosexuals have an identity crisis, they are not sure of who or what they are. When you read about homosexuals or you hear someone call into "LoveLine" and say they are gay, the first thing that Doctor Drew asks is "where you abused when you were younger" and nine times out of 10 they say yes. I feel that something tramtic has happen to this person at a key point in there development and this cause this identiy crisis.

I need help in understanding this issue. Please express your views and help undestand both sides.
I have thought about this before too and I would like to belive that it is not genetic but...
If it is not genetic to be homosexual then it is learned or influenced.
If this is true then being heterosexual is learned or influenced.
But IMO sexuality is not a conscience decision " I see men and women together, so I will like women" but it is more of an involuntary feeling and emotion: example- like when a grade school male has his first erection after seeing a woman undressing in a movie, it was not a choice but an involuntary reaction. Not something he learned. In the same way, (from gays that I have talked) many homosexuals have had no experience like the hetero person. They were never aroused by women in their youth and had never been since. They felt like they were different all their lives. No sexual attraction to women. Is it plausible for a man to go against a natural attraction towards women to be with men if it were not affected by genetics, or hormone imbalances?
As far as mockery of the Word of God...
If a person were born with no repro. organs how could that person be fruitful and multiply?
How could a person born deaf, dumb, blind, and paralyzed go unto the earth spreading the good news of Jesus?
I think it boils down to (can't remember the verse)

"To him who is given much, much is expected."

Basically doing what you can with what you have. Each of us have handicaps of different kinds, all of which we can overcome when we have faith and seek God's help. I think homosexuality is not always a choice, but a different type of handicap that can be overcome with Jesus.

I think sexuality can be influenced by both genetic and influential forces. Yes abuse can cause homosexuality, but do you think 100% of gays have been abused?
my 2 cents
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-06-2004, 03:56 AM
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and a good two cents u put in nice ..and welcome to the boards!

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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