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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2004, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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what is the difference?

Between a Cult and a Church

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2004, 11:28 AM
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Cult - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

Church - The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body.

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No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2004, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
Cult - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

Church - The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body.
well said
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2004, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
Cult - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

Church - The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body.
i couldnt say it any better.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-18-2004, 06:16 AM
 
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Going for three in a row...

Well put Randy!
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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lol yeah after I read that I thought I would look it up in the dictionary copy paste ;p ..but thanks for the answer though...does this pertain to mormons at all then?? no I am not trying to affend anyone either

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DFWminis
lol yeah after I read that I thought I would look it up in the dictionary copy paste ;p ..but thanks for the answer though...does this pertain to mormons at all then?? no I am not trying to affend anyone either
I think they may fall into the "religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false" catagory. The biggest problems with the Mormons is that they have their own book that supersedes the bible, their belief that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers, mandatory 10% giving (what happened to cheerful giving?), human spirits flying around waiting to inhabit newborns, God has a body of flesh and bones, there is not one God but many....I can go on and on.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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wow interesting you mind PM with more details on that...I very interested in other religons like this...or point me in the right direction

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 09:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by DFWminis
wow interesting you mind PM with more details on that...I very interested in other religons like this...or point me in the right direction
Go to Christian Research Institutes website: www.equip.org

You can search there for Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Islam, etc.

Good luck!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 09:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by DFWminis
wow interesting you mind PM with more details on that...I very interested in other religons like this...or point me in the right direction
You may also read from my own notes through studying the cult of Mormonism. I hope it helps...

MORMONS – Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – Founded by Joseph Smith April 6, 1830 - 9 million members in almost 130 countries – 40,000 full time missionaries -

JOSEPH SMITH – He claimed to be a prophet of God. In his 1st vision the “prophet” said God instructed him to start a new church, what was to become the Mormon church. His own testimony of this vision shows MANY discrepancies. For example, the earliest record of Smith’s “first vision” only makes mention of Jesus Christ being present, where other accounts mention the appearance of Jesus, God the Father, an angel, or even a group of angels. It is quite clear the reports at best inconsistent and leave much room for doubt. Bear in mind, many of these reports came from Joseph Smith himself. Remember Duet. 18:22 makes it clear that a true prophet of God will be accurate 100% of the time, and Joseph Smith could not come close. He predicted that a Mormon temple in Missouri would be constructed before all of the people living in 1832 pass away. This did not occur.

VISIONS – Joseph Smith had this vision in 1820 at Palmyra, NY. In it, God supposedly told him not to join any church, he said, because “they are all wrong…their creeds were all an abomination and all their professors were corrupt” (Pearl of Great Price, J. Smith 1:18,19). Three years later, he claimed the angel “Moroni” visited him and led him to some golden plates. These plates were supposedly written in “reformed eqytian hieroglyphics” (not Egyptologist or Philologist has ever seen this language). After translating these plates through a “magical pair of spectacles”, the Book of Mormon was born.

BOOKS – The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price are now considered by Mormons to be of equal authority with the Word of God “as it is translated correctly”.

BOOK OF MORMON - Smith describes it as “the most correct of any book on earth”. The flaws range anywhere from serious to silly…a serious flaw for example is one we find in Ether 3:14 “Behold, I am Jesus Christ, I am the father and the son” which is clearly against the theory of the trinity. Later on in Alma 11:44 we find a contradiction which sounds quite biblical, “Christ the Son, and God the father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one eternal God”. On the silly side is the account in Alma 44 of a man who becomes irate after being scalped and stirs up his soldiers to fight “more powerfully”, and in Ether 15 we read of a man who struggles to catch his breath after having his head cut off. The Book of Mormon has been altered over 4,000 times to compensate for Smith’s poor English as well as for the numerous errors and inconsistencies it presented. More revisions to come!

DOCTRINES AND COVENANTS – A compilation of alleged divine revelations given to the Mormon Church and it is equally problematic. Here we find the doctrine of polygamy amongst many other heretical doctrines.

PEARL OF GREAT PRICE – This work is no less troubling either. It includes a doctrine that was used for years to prevent African Americans from entering priesthood and consequently being exalted to godhood in the system’s celestial kingdom. Mormon prophet Brigham Young went so far as to declare that the reason “negros” have a “flat nose and black skin” is because God had put a curse on them.
BIBLE – The Bible is a trademark of the apostate church. 2 Nephi 29:6 in the Book of Mormon calls anyone who receives theological truth from the Bible alone a fool. Brigham Young even said, “…those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a prophet or a man bearing the Holy priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books.” Mormons are taught that the Bible has been corrupted throughout the years and is no longer reliable. The dead sea scrolls prove that belief to be incorrect as they were discovered in 1946 and when compared to the current Bible translation it is obvious we have an accurate translation. There is 1,000 year gap between the Masoretic text and the dead sea scrolls and yet the are still virtually the same.

JESUS CHRIST – Once a man and worked his way to becoming a God. It is also taught the Jesus was the spirit brother of Lucifer. Another unbiblical teaching about Jesus is that after His ascension into heaven, He made a 2nd appearance to proclaim the gospel to the Americas after His ascension. Mormons believe Christ is Jehovah, the LORD, God of Israel, of the OT. Mormons however, refuse to pray to Him – even though Jehovah commands this in the OT (Deut 4:6, 2 Chron. 7:14, Ps. 5:2) and this is the same Jehovah that knows of no God besides Himself, the One worshipped by all true Christians (Ex. 34:14, Matt. 2:11). Remember, even though a Mormon will tell you they believe in Jesus Christ, Paul in 2 Cor. 11:4 says there are some that preach another Jesus. For example, while the Bible teaches that Jesus has always existed as God (Gen 1:1 and John 1:1), Mormons see Jesus as someone who worked His way up to godhood.

HEAVEN – Heaven is made up of 3 levels, and there are actually 5 different places you can go upon death. 3 levels of heaven, paradise, and perdition.
“Telestial Glory” - This degree of heaven is held for those "who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus," but who, nevertheless, did not deny the Holy Spirit. The Telestial Kingdom is for those who chose wickedness over godliness. This is the lowest level.
“Terrestrial Glory” - This level is held for those "who, though honorable, failed to comply with the requirements for exaltation, were blinded by the craftiness of men and unable to receive and obey the higher laws of God." Likewise, it is for those who rejected Christ in mortal life but accepted Him afterwards.
“Celestial Glory” - This degree is held for those who have received the Temple ordinances. They have been married in the Temple for all time and eternity and they are gods. The highest level…these will have the ability to rule over their planet and populate with their children.
“Paradise” – A holding place waiting to be judged and offered a place in one of the 3 heavens.
“Perdition” – The spirit of a person is sent to perdition where it is given a chance to repent and thus gain a higher heavenly option. Perdition, commonly known as Spirit-Prison Hell, is a temporary state even though it lasts more than a thousand years. This is clearly not the Hell spoken of in God’s Word. It is interesting to note that the Book of Mormon does not seem to agree with the Doctrine and Covenants where it clearly states there is no second chance for repentance after death. Alma 34:32 states, "For behold this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God....Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end...if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked."

ORIGINAL SIN – They deny this teaching, but rather say that men and women in reality are gods in embryo.

POLYGAMY – The “new and everlasting covenant” of plural marriage is perhaps the best example of a change in Mormon doctrine for convenience sake. In 1890, under the threat of exile to Mexico, Mormons officially abolished polygamy in the earthly realm. However in secret temple ceremonies, Mormon males continue to be sealed to multiple wives – in the heavenly realm. The practice of polygamy is now promised to those who attain the highest level, the celestial kingdom, like Brigham Young who had 27 wives and 52 children. Like their heavenly father, Mormon males hope to one day, too, rule their own personal planets and enjoy endless, celestial sex with multiple goddess wives.

PROPHETS & SEERS – The words spoken by the current “prophet, seer, and revelator” (the current president of the Mormon Church) can supersede and even contradict previous revelations. This is how the have justified the hundreds of doctrinal changes that have occurred over the years, such as their promotion of polygamy and theis exclusion of people of “dark skin” from the priesthood.

CONCEPT OF GOD – Mormons believe God is embodied or localized in space and not everywhere at the same time (D&C 130:22). They believe God is an organizer of the world, but still subject to laws of the universe. They believe God is limited in power and in knowledge. They believe God is contingent, depending on the human life lived, and one of many Gods – that we have an opportunity to become Gods.

VIRGIN BIRTH – Mormons explain this as a miraculous conception resulting from physical intercourse between God and Mary.

POLYTHEISM – There are countless gods and Jesus Christ is one of many. Even though they teach this doctrine of many Gods, even the heretical Book of Mormon is clear in proclaiming that there is only 1 God.

SALVATION – There are two types of salvation taught to the Mormon.
“General Salvation” – doctrine that everyone is going to be resurrected, after which they will be judged according to their works. In other words, everyone gets a pass into God’s courtroom but they are on their own once they get there. This of course is nothing more than salvation by works.
“Full Salvation” – doctrine that only is available to Mormons who have steadfastly obeyed the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church. Once again salvation by works, but only for Mormons. In this case, we are talking about the reward being an open path to “exaltation” or “godhood”. Since Mormons are really striving to become gods and goddesses, the general salvation is virtually equivalent to damnation.
We know these are false doctrines for many reasons, mainly because we know salvation is by grace through faith and has nothing to do with works (Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5) and the scripture only teaches one type of salvation not two (John 5:24, Acts 2:21). Mormonism’s idea of salvation makes a mockery of God’s grace and the atoning death of Christ.

APOSTACY – The Mormon church was built on the premise that the Christian church was completely taken over by Apostacy after the apostle died. He claimed that the church was completely nonexistent by the 19th century. His mission in creating the Mormon church was to restore the church. This teaching is clearly against scripture when it is clear from the mouth of Christ in Matt. 16:18 that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the church, in Hebrews 12:28 where it’s stated that the kingdom of God is unshakable, and in Daniel 2:44 where is is referred to as indestructible. It was Joseph Smith who attached Christianity saying that our sects were all wrong, our creeds an abomination, and our teachers corrupt.

TEMPLE RITUALS – Rituals know as “ordinances” are vital to Mormons because they are regarded as the only means to salvation and of course exaltation to godhood. These ordinances closely resemble those of the Masons – and Mr. Smith was himself a Mason. They begin with a ceremonial washing and anointing, afterwards each participant is given a “new name” along with a garment which supposedly has the power to repel physical and spiritual dangers. This is then followed by what is referred to as the “endowment”, essentially a distorted presentation of man’s fall showcasing Adam’s alleged acceptance of Mormon doctrine. Finally, each participant takes a series of oaths and is asked questions that must be answered properly in order to pass through a veil or curtain, thus completing the ceremony. This ceremony is expected to be completed at least once by every Mormon. For the most part however, this ceremony is performed on behalf of those who have already died! In this instance church members go through the ceremony as substitutes for the dead. Additionally they practice baptism on the behalf of the dead. Marriages are also performed in the temple, which purportedly guarantees eternal unions so that Mormons may bear children after having become gods and goddesses. Mormons will argue that these ceremonies are carried over from Hebrew tradition, but there are no instances in the Bible were such is the case.

REORGANIZED LATTER-DAY SAINTS – somewhat closer to Christian doctrine as they believe God was always God and did not work His was up to being God, and they say there is only One God. Many of the ceremonies practice by LDS are repudiated by the RLDS. They also refuse to acknowledge many of the authoritative writings of the Mormon church such as the Pearl of Great Price. While you might say they could be the “real thing”, there are still a number of things that classify them as heretical. The go along with the apostasy teaching of Joseph Smith, they maintain JS was a prophet, they hold the Book of Mormon on equal ground with the Bible, and so on.

ARE THEY CHRISTIANS? - To quote a Mormon apologist, “Latter Day Saints are Christians because they emphatically believe in Christ, use His name in their official church title, and believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon which testify repeatedly of the reality of Christ and the truth of His teachings.”
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 09:30 AM
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Here is some good information from ChristianAnswers.net

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-r002.html

And some more from Leadership U.

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/micha...mormonism.html

Good info Lee.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-20-2004, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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sweet thanks for yalls help ....I really enjoy reading on other peoples belifs and how they came about.....

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
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