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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Where did religion come from?

The following question was posed to me by another member. I'd be interested in everyone's comments.

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Do you even know why religion in any form was even created. Whether Buddist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Roman Mythology, etc???
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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My thoughts:

Religion is to loose a term to just start a discussion such as this. Therefore, we first must define our terms. The definition of religion to which I will be referring will be: An institutionalized belief system grounded in the beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader or deity.
Religion, speaking specifically of the advent of Judaism, was created by God through his prophets unto the Hebrew nation. With out any reference material I am going to say that, the greater part of this formation of the Jewish “institution” occurred with the Exodus and continued up until the completion of the Temple. Feel free to correct me if I am misstating the facts.

Religion, speaking in the broad scope of the matter, was likely an occurrence of man’s attempt to attach meaning to those things which he was unable to explain or comprehend.
-OR- It evolved as mankind struggled to answer unanswerable questions. The lack of revelation with regard to these questions in turn caused a psychological void. This void was naturally filled by reliance on omnipotent being/beings.
Most of the secularists out there would have you believe that the whole encompassing umbrella of religious philosophy found its formation in such a way. I will concede that most of them did. What I will not surrender is that all found their beginning out of a need to explain or a need to lean on that proverbial god crutch. There is far too much proof of real God to be ignored. I believe fully that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. His name is YHWH, ALMIGHTY, Everlasting, Jesus.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 09:57 AM
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Religion was formed to control people.

I wish I was the head of a religion.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
man’s attempt to attach meaning to those things which he was unable to explain or comprehend. -OR- It evolved as mankind struggled to answer unanswerable questions.
That right there I believe is the answer. Simply, all the religions in the world were created to explain the unexplainable. That is why I am glad I serve a God who is not about "religion" or about "controling people". My God does not want religion, He wants a relationship. He wants you know know Him, not know about Him.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
That right there I believe is the answer. Simply, all the religions in the world were created to explain the unexplainable. That is why I am glad I serve a God who is not about "religion" or about "controling people". My God does not want religion, He wants a relationship. He wants you know know Him, not know about Him.
good stuff
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 01:20 PM
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Actually religion was formed because people wanted answers, and no one could give them those answers.

They also needed a set or rules to live by, basic moral code per say. Because there was no structured government.

What is the oldest religion?
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 01:27 PM
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very true matt.

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Big Matt
Actually religion was formed because people wanted answers, and no one could give them those answers.

They also needed a set or rules to live by, basic moral code per say. Because there was no structured government.

What is the oldest religion?
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 02:13 PM
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I'll give you a hint...

It's not Christianity, Islam, or Judaism
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 02:28 PM
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 02:32 PM
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I'll define it even further,

A diety based religion...
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 02:38 PM
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 02:41 PM
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no that's Islam...

And that was formed after Judaism (Jewish), and Christianity...
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 03:50 PM
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Although the God of the bible has been around longer, Hinduism is the oldest world religion.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:28 PM
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Hinduism is the oldest, with a close second being Zoroastrianism or Mythology.

Hinduism - 1500 BCE, before common erra
Mythology both Greek and Roman - 1300ish BCE
Zoroastrianism - 13th or 14th century BCE
Judaism - 1400 BCE (moses recorded the Torah)
Buddhism - 800 BCE
Christianity - 30 CE
Islam - 610 CE
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Big Matt
Actually religion was formed because people wanted answers, and no one could give them those answers.

They also needed a set or rules to live by, basic moral code per say. Because there was no structured government.

See you agreed with me on something. Although I would not take it as far as you probably do.


Judaism 1400 BC (Before Christ)

There was a semblance of Judaism long before Moses came along.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:42 PM
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BCE is Before Common Era

and the reason it is 1400 is because that is when it was documented. That would be when it started...
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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A semblence of Juaism came before the Law was given to Moses. Therefore I suggest to you that this image of Judaism is older than Hinduism.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:54 PM
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there were followers, with nothing documented, so the actual dating is wrong.

In that sense, Hinduism is older as well. Let's say 3000 to 6000 BCE, because it's roots lie in Dravidianism.
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 04:59 PM
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And even then, we could go as far as to say, that Kemetic religion is even older, dating back as far as 1500 BCE writings, and even further, say 2300 BCE, which we can date back writings on the Tomb of Ptah-Hotep (5th Dynasty).
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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The pentateuch records the history of the Hebrew people. So although there are no documents dating back before Moses we can lean on the documented history contained there in. This of course dates back to the Genesis (the Beginning). Of course this will find no credence with you or other secularists.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:03 PM
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and another religion even older than Judaism, would be Andean.

South American area, there have been relics found of a 4000 year old carving of the Staff god. Which was radiocarbon-dated to 2500 BCE. This religion is one of the founding religions of most early "Indian" tribes, from the Aztecs, to the Incas.

Which suggest the earliest forms of religion to be on a completly different side of the globe.
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
The pentateuch records the history of the Hebrew people. So although there are no documents dating back before Moses we can lean on the documented history contained there in. This of course dates back to the Genesis (the Beginning). Of course this will find no credence with you or other secularists.
Of course not. Even if you want to go as far as when it may have been thought to have begun, Judaism, would be 1800 BCE, when those started to follow Abraham.

All religions talk of the begining, and how we came to be. So that is not enough credit. We need actual written material, how can you spread the word, without it?
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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I have to go plant some bushes in the back yard and get something to eat afterward. So I may be a while in response.

But keep it coming.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Big Matt
Of course not. Even if you want to go as far as when it may have been thought to have begun, Judaism, would be 1800 BCE, when those started to follow Abraham.

All religions talk of the begining, and how we came to be. So that is not enough credit. We need actual written material, how can you spread the word, without it?
Arrghh. I've got to go. Would you concede that the religious practices of the Hebrew people if the Bible were proven relevant?
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:13 PM
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the time the bible was written is relevant, the stories it contains are not.

We aren't talking truth here, we are talking religious formation. Just because it's in a book, doesn't mean it's true.
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 05:52 PM
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There is actually a Book of Enoch (who lived around 3000 BC). It is said to be quoted about 100 different times throughout the bible. Jude 1:14 is the most well know instance since Enoch is mentioned. It was also part of the canon during the early church. Now, no one is to say when this book was written but since Jude is quoting a man who lived 5000 years ago it should bare some validity.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 06:35 PM
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it's still just writings about someone from the past.

So are all the hyroglyphics which tell stories from the past.

Are they not?
post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Big Matt
the time the bible was written is relevant, the stories it contains are not.

We aren't talking truth here, we are talking religious formation. Just because it's in a book, doesn't mean it's true.
I suppose that is where our paths split than. I believe that the history recorded in the Bible (not stories) is the proof in the pudding, the Bible is relevant and true. That being said it is easily accepted that the religous practices of the Hebrew people, going back to the Creation, make it the oldest of all the belief systems. So lets just say that perhaps there is no documentation that takes us back as far as as the other religions. That is due only to a lack of evidence at this point. Too many times science and archeology have issued claims of the Bibles irrelevence only to have these claims retracted. The Bible has proven itself far to many times to be ignored.
Therefore, it is my contention that as long as the Biblcal text can withstand the scutiny of science, history, and archelogy, than it should be given the same respect of other historical documents.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Big Matt
Hinduism is the oldest, with a close second being Zoroastrianism or Mythology.

Hinduism - 1500 BCE, before common erra
Mythology both Greek and Roman - 1300ish BCE
Zoroastrianism - 13th or 14th century BCE
Judaism - 1400 BCE (moses recorded the Torah)
Buddhism - 800 BCE
Christianity - 30 CE
Islam - 610 CE
So I'm guessing you're just basing this on the oldest recorded material for religious foundations? Since no mention of Egypt, Sumaria, Babylon, nor any of the "nature" religions formed in Europe that according to archeological finds, predate 1500 bce, most going back to around 6000-5000 bce or further in the earliest traces of society (whether the earliest forms of society had some form of structured belief system isn't known, but based on burial practices it can be reasonably assumed).

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post #31 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 09:09 PM
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I was basing it on diety based religions, not "I am a god" religions, so common in early Egypt with the Pharohs, and such
post #32 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 09:27 PM
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Yes, the Pharoh's believed they were gods, or at least the avatar's of gods. But there were still gods, ie: Isis, Osiris, Ra (Re), Horus, etc.

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