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post #1 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Question Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

So when I went to see The Passion weeks ago, I was sitting next to these two guys and one of them brought up evolution . . . the other says "You believe in evolution and you're seeing this movie???"

My GOD!!! How can people be so close minded!!!! I'm sorry, but Genisis (sp?) is a good story, but honestly, evolution makes alot more sense. It's doesn't make me less of a christian for thinking so. IMO: Evolution is just God's doing.
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post #2 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 12:52 PM
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Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Who Needs 8


I'm sorry, but Genisis (sp?) is a good story, but honestly, evolution makes alot more sense.
So you think Genesis is just a Story? If so, then what makes you not think the story of Jesus is just a tall tale?
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post #3 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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So you think Genesis is just a Story? If so, then what makes you not think the story of Jesus is just a tall tale?
Because there is living proof by witnesses of Jesus: Roman and Jewish Temple Records of Jesus' existence . . . Who knew Adam and Eve??? Where are they're remains??? Where is Eden??? (I know there are no remains of Jesus, but his disiples remains have been found . . . ie. St. Peter).

I'm sorry, Evolution makes alot more sense, but some higher power still created Evolution.
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post #4 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 05:45 PM
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post #5 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 07:19 PM
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Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Who Needs 8
So when I went to see The Passion weeks ago, I was sitting next to these two guys and one of them brought up evolution . . . the other says "You believe in evolution and you're seeing this movie???"

My GOD!!! How can people be so close minded!!!! I'm sorry, but Genisis (sp?) is a good story, but honestly, evolution makes alot more sense. It's doesn't make me less of a christian for thinking so. IMO: Evolution is just God's doing.
I dont buy into the lie of evolution but I understand where you are coming. There are many sincere christians who believe in evolution, I dont feel it has anything to do with a persons salvation.

I will say this however, when God said that He was going to make man in His image, He did not create a slug crawling out of a cesspool, He created a modern man with an intelligence.
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Originally posted by whiteboy
its all bs story!!
Jeremy if you dont watch your mouth in here I will see about getting you banned from in here. I am aware that your from Garland but that is no excuse, pick up a dictionary and learn some real english. All your doing is proving how ignorant you are.
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post #6 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-21-2004, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by MoonDog
I will say this however, when God said that He was going to make man in His image, He did not create a slug crawling out of a cesspool, He created a modern man with an intelligence.
How do you explain Dinosaurs and other pre-historic animals what lived long before Humans??? You think that's all made up??? lol
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post #7 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-22-2004, 06:35 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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How do you explain Dinosaurs and other pre-historic animals what lived long before Humans??? You think that's all made up??? lol
They assume that they lived long before man. Everything that science comes up with in regards to evolution and dating is based on assumptions. If these asumptions were proven to be false then the whole world of evolution would crumble. We have gone round and round on dating methods and I really dont want to get into it again.

Yes, I believe there were dinosaurs but I also believe that man was here at the same time. There have been found dinosaur footprints and human footprints within the same layer of rock. It has been posted many times that dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible, "Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee". God saids that this large animal, which happens to discribe no animal alive today, was made at the same time as man.

I am not trying to say that believing in evolution is a bad or wicked thing. I am just saying that if God made man in His own image then it is hard for me to believe that God made a hapless slug and told this slug to be fruitfull and multiply and subdue the earth and have dominion over the fish, birds and every other living thing on earth, but your going to have to wait 4 billion years until you evolve into something more productible.
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post #8 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-22-2004, 08:30 AM
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Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Who Needs 8
So when I went to see The Passion weeks ago, I was sitting next to these two guys and one of them brought up evolution . . . the other says "You believe in evolution and you're seeing this movie???"

My GOD!!! How can people be so close minded!!!! I'm sorry, but Genisis (sp?) is a good story, but honestly, evolution makes alot more sense. It's doesn't make me less of a christian for thinking so. IMO: Evolution is just God's doing.
Micro Evolution yes, Macro evolution No!
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post #9 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-22-2004, 02:29 PM
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Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Who Needs 8


My GOD!!! How can people be so close minded!!!! I'm sorry, but Genisis (sp?) is a good story, but honestly, evolution makes alot more sense. It's doesn't make me less of a christian for thinking so. IMO: Evolution is just God's doing.
Micro-Evolution is God's doing and it dosent go against Genisis. So where is the conflict?
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post #10 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-22-2004, 02:31 PM
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Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Jeremy if you dont watch your mouth in here I will see about getting you banned from in here. I am aware that your from Garland but that is no excuse, pick up a dictionary and learn some real english. All your doing is proving how ignorant you are.
Ditto, if that is all you can contribute, then dont bother contributing at all
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post #11 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 03:12 PM
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Do you believe in an original sin?

Do you believe that death is a result of this sin?

So there was no death prior to orignal sin?

If there were no death nor sickness prior to sin than how did the evolutionary process take place?

Is evolution not dependant on millions of years of death, mutations, suffering, and mistakes?

Is this how God creates? With death, mutations, suffering, and mistakes?

Was Jesus a liar when he spoke of the Creation, or Adam, or the Flood?

Was he mistaken when he refered to himself as the second Adam?

Although the Creation account is not essential for salvation, I personally feel that you are on dangerous ground when you suggest that the Bible is flawed or allegorical.

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post #12 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 03:13 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Who Needs 8
How do you explain Dinosaurs and other pre-historic animals what lived long before Humans??? You think that's all made up??? lol
You believe that dinosaurs are a million gajillion years old. LOL


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post #13 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 03:20 PM
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Josh
million gajillion
For those that do not know...

million gajillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000

LOL - I like that Josh!
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post #14 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 03:29 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by Josh
You believe that dinosaurs are a million gajillion years old. LOL

I thought they were closer to quadruple-million-gajillion-bajillion-super-duper-blooper-thousand years old? Are you trying to confuse me?
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post #15 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 04:28 PM
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Just because you believe the we evolve or more precisely adapt to our environment does not mean you believe that we came from a slug. God gave us the ability to find ways to survive. Genetically as well as mentally.
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post #16 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dan962000
Just because you believe the we evolve or more precisely adapt to our environment does not mean you believe that we came from a slug. God gave us the ability to find ways to survive. Genetically as well as mentally.
And what you are speaking of is micro-evolution. This indeed does happen.

Macro-evolution does not happen and has never been proven to happen yet people are taught that it is a fact and a common accurance. That is what we are talking about here.
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post #17 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 08:08 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you believe in Evolution and be a Christian??

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Originally posted by MoonDog
I thought they were closer to quadruple-million-gajillion-bajillion-super-duper-blooper-thousand years old? Are you trying to confuse me?
LOL at you guys
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post #18 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 11:29 PM
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post #19 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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I guess you people don't believe that 2+2=4!!! Because everything in the Universe(sp?) can be proven mathmatically. But I guess you guys were also the same people that failed algebra I three times in high school.

All that doesn't mean I'm a non-believer.

My Mother is a retired high school Algebra I and II teacher, so I know those types well.
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post #20 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
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Because everything in the Universe(sp?) can be proven mathmatically.
Prove it then...
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post #21 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Who Needs 8
I guess you people don't believe that 2+2=4!!! Because everything in the Universe(sp?) can be proven mathmatically. But I guess you guys were also the same people that failed algebra I three times in high school.

All that doesn't mean I'm a non-believer.

My Mother is a retired high school Algebra I and II teacher, so I know those types well.
Where you are getting that information?
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post #22 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Who Needs 8
I guess you people don't believe that 2+2=4!!! Because everything in the Universe(sp?) can be proven mathmatically. But I guess you guys were also the same people that failed algebra I three times in high school.

All that doesn't mean I'm a non-believer.

My Mother is a retired high school Algebra I and II teacher, so I know those types well.
Not sure what your post is trying to say. That evolutionists can understand algebra and Creationists can't?

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post #23 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 05:28 PM
 
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I just cant wait till we find some sort of life on another planet. That will throw some people in the religious hippocracy for a loop. I have to agree with some people in here in that I tend to mix the two together..theology, and evolution. I think we are too complex, and everything works too well for us to have JUST been an evolutionary mistake. BUT I do believe that we are a stage in evolution which was controlled and created by God. We may have even been one of his "fuck ups" what if there are 1,000,000 other planets in the universe with life like us..I think there could, and SHOULD be...awful waste of space when you look at it that way if we are the ONLY beings around. ( besides animals etc..) The bible and all of the history of God and Jesus and the like was written BY MAN though..and whos to say they didnt mix up their own spice here in there? I dont trust people...and you CANT trust people. I just put my faith towards knowing someone is watching and I have alot of questions to ask when I get to MY final destination.
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post #24 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Who Needs 8
I guess you people don't believe that 2+2=4!!! Because everything in the Universe(sp?) can be proven mathmatically. But I guess you guys were also the same people that failed algebra I three times in high school.

All that doesn't mean I'm a non-believer.

My Mother is a retired high school Algebra I and II teacher, so I know those types well.
Wrong, I got straight A's in Algebra I, Algebra II, Algebra III and Trigonometry.

Not once did we go over anything pertaining to the universe.

You have been reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy haven't you?
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post #25 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 07:50 PM
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post #26 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
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What I ment by bringing up the mathmatics was that Carbon Dating is mathmatically proven, which is why Dinosaurs DID live before humans, UNLESS we just haven't found human remains to prove otherwise.

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post #27 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-25-2004, 03:24 AM
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You are the wiener. LOL

First of all algebra is based on mathematical facts which are absolute. What algebra is not based on are assumptions. Assumptions are what you are deriving your facts on with Carbon-14. To have an accurate dating method with Carbon-14 one must first know the ratio of C14 to that of C12. We know what that ratio is presently, roughly 1 C14 atom for every Trillion C12 atoms. What we do not know is if this ratio has been constant through out history. This is the assumption that makes C14 unreliable to those who believe that this ratio has been constant. It is very accurate with in say, about 4000 years, but not beyond that.

Second, Carbon-14 dating is only used to date objects that are within thousands of years old. It only has a half life of 5700 years, so you can't possibly use it to date something millions of years old. To get a false reading of millions or billions of years old you make a bad assumption using Potassium/Argon.
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post #28 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-25-2004, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WyLdMuStAnGT95
I just cant wait till we find some sort of life on another planet. That will throw some people in the religious hippocracy for a loop. I have to agree with some people in here in that I tend to mix the two together..theology, and evolution. I think we are too complex, and everything works too well for us to have JUST been an evolutionary mistake. BUT I do believe that we are a stage in evolution which was controlled and created by God. We may have even been one of his "fuck ups" what if there are 1,000,000 other planets in the universe with life like us..I think there could, and SHOULD be...awful waste of space when you look at it that way if we are the ONLY beings around. ( besides animals etc..) The bible and all of the history of God and Jesus and the like was written BY MAN though..and whos to say they didnt mix up their own spice here in there? I dont trust people...and you CANT trust people. I just put my faith towards knowing someone is watching and I have alot of questions to ask when I get to MY final destination.
Man you don't know what you want to believe do you. LOL

Let me get this straight, you don't want to believe what the Bible says because it was written by man but you are willing to believe in evolution? You do know that evolution was not handed down from God right? It is also written down by the hand of a man. So which will you chose; something written by man as dictated by GOD or, an unproven erroneous theory written by man alone?

As for ET. Not saying it is impossible that life may exists outside of our planet but it is very unlikely. The Bible simply does not address it. However, I can say with the utmost certainty that there is no intelligent life out there.
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post #29 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-25-2004, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Who Needs 8
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Carbon Dating is mathmatically proven,
Yes, based upon assumptions. You need to read up more on carbon dating.
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post #30 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
Do you believe in an original sin?

Do you believe that death is a result of this sin?

So there was no death prior to orignal sin?

If there were no death nor sickness prior to sin than how did the evolutionary process take place?

Is evolution not dependant on millions of years of death, mutations, suffering, and mistakes?

Is this how God creates? With death, mutations, suffering, and mistakes?

Was Jesus a liar when he spoke of the Creation, or Adam, or the Flood?

Was he mistaken when he refered to himself as the second Adam?

Although the Creation account is not essential for salvation, I personally feel that you are on dangerous ground when you suggest that the Bible is flawed or allegorical.
No offense but you do know that man has changed the bible over the years right..the most widely accepted version of the bible was constructed by King James...and i wouldnt doubt that he changed stuff in it to suit himself...I would also like to know, what makes you guys so sure your religion is correct compared to another who believes in one "higher being"..just some food for thought. Can you prove your god more right than another religion who also has prophets and all that..
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post #31 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
No offense but you do know that man has changed the bible over the years right..the most widely accepted version of the bible was constructed by King James...and i wouldnt doubt that he changed stuff in it to suit himself...I would also like to know, what makes you guys so sure your religion is correct compared to another who believes in one "higher being"..just some food for thought. Can you prove your god more right than another religion who also has prophets and all that..
And no offense to you but you did know that the sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in Qumran dating back to around 500 BC read exactly as the KJV that was written over 2000 years later, right? So to say that man has changed the bible over the years to suit himself is stating something that is incorrect and without basis.

What kind of "proof" are you looking for? I guess it really doesn't matter since no matter what we say as "proof", not you nor anyone else is going to believe. A person will only believe when the Holy Spirit draws him to do so.
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post #32 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by MoonDog
And no offense to you but you did know that the sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in Qumran dating back to around 500 BC read exactly as the KJV that was written over 2000 years later, right? So to say that man has changed the bible over the years to suit himself is stating something that is incorrect and without basis.

What kind of "proof" are you looking for? I guess it really doesn't matter since no matter what we say as "proof", not you nor anyone else is going to believe. A person will only believe when the Holy Spirit draws him to do so.
this just goes to show how ignorant you are..did i say i didnt believe..i actually believe in god so you must be the poster child for downsyndrome cause all i was doin was sparking some debate..so please dont try and preach to me about "proof" when you have no idea where i stand. All im saying is you dont know that EVERY SINGLE word in the bible is gods word or what was added ok..and you still managed to not answer any of the good questions i asked..how do you knwo your religion is right..have you studied IN DEPTH all of the other world religions..cause i bet they say the exact same htings you say about ancient scrolls found and what not..so try and think "outside the box" and not be so ignorant
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post #33 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
this just goes to show how ignorant you are..did i say i didnt believe..i actually believe in god so you must be the poster child for downsyndrome cause all i was doin was sparking some debate..so please dont try and preach to me about "proof" when you have no idea where i stand. All im saying is you dont know that EVERY SINGLE word in the bible is gods word or what was added ok..and you still managed to not answer any of the good questions i asked..how do you knwo your religion is right..have you studied IN DEPTH all of the other world religions..cause i bet they say the exact same htings you say about ancient scrolls found and what not..so try and think "outside the box" and not be so ignorant
Sounds like your doing the preaching...
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post #34 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
this just goes to show how ignorant you are..did i say i didnt believe..i actually believe in god so you must be the poster child for downsyndrome cause all i was doin was sparking some debate..so please dont try and preach to me about "proof" when you have no idea where i stand. All im saying is you dont know that EVERY SINGLE word in the bible is gods word or what was added ok..and you still managed to not answer any of the good questions i asked..how do you knwo your religion is right..have you studied IN DEPTH all of the other world religions..cause i bet they say the exact same htings you say about ancient scrolls found and what not..so try and think "outside the box" and not be so ignorant
Faith.
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post #35 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Assumptions Assumptions Assumptions . . . . You guys DO realize that it is only ASSUMED that the bible is the Word of God, right???

Is there Proof otherwise???
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post #36 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-27-2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
this just goes to show how ignorant you are..did i say i didnt believe..i actually believe in god so you must be the poster child for downsyndrome cause all i was doin was sparking some debate..so please dont try and preach to me about "proof" when you have no idea where i stand. All im saying is you dont know that EVERY SINGLE word in the bible is gods word or what was added ok..and you still managed to not answer any of the good questions i asked..how do you knwo your religion is right..have you studied IN DEPTH all of the other world religions..cause i bet they say the exact same htings you say about ancient scrolls found and what not..so try and think "outside the box" and not be so ignorant
You just proved your ignorance by your intellegent reply, grow up. Young punk kids.
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post #37 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-27-2004, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
You just proved your ignorance by your intellegent reply, grow up. Young punk kids.
Yes maybe i should reply with intellegent replies like yours
Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
I thought they were closer to quadruple-million-gajillion-bajillion-super-duper-blooper-thousand years old? Are you trying to confuse me?
now please shut up and stop acting all high and intelligent cause the fact is you assumed i dont believe in god and went on saying how theres nothing you can do to convince me when infact i do believe and i do follow one religion. i merely tried asking you for your reasons in believing in yours and you obviously cant tell me so maybe you need to spend some more time figuring that out..
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post #38 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-27-2004, 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Hawse771
Yes maybe i should reply with intellegent replies like yours


now please shut up and stop acting all high and intelligent cause the fact is you assumed i dont believe in god and went on saying how theres nothing you can do to convince me when infact i do believe and i do follow one religion. i merely tried asking you for your reasons in believing in yours and you obviously cant tell me so maybe you need to spend some more time figuring that out..


I never assumed anything. You are the one assuming. You said you wanted proof,

"I would also like to know, what makes you guys so sure your religion is correct compared to another who believes in one "higher being"..just some food for thought. Can you prove your god more right than another religion who also has prophets and all that.."

Your statements imply that you do not believe. "What makes you guys so sure", Can you prove your god". Are these questions from a believer?

I said that there is nothing that I can say or do to prove to you or anyone else that there is a God, only the Spirit of God can draw you to him. I can show you that God exists but unless the Spirit draws you, you wont believe. That is a true statement whether you believe it or not. There is no assumptions on my part.

Anyone can "believe and follow one religion". My question to you mister smarty pants. Is Jesus Christ the Lord of you life?

Last edited by MoonDog; 03-27-2004 at 08:38 PM.
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post #39 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-27-2004, 11:59 PM
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[IMG] Is Jesus Christ the Lord of you life?
no way jose.
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post #40 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-28-2004, 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by MoonDog


I never assumed anything. You are the one assuming. You said you wanted proof,

"I would also like to know, what makes you guys so sure your religion is correct compared to another who believes in one "higher being"..just some food for thought. Can you prove your god more right than another religion who also has prophets and all that.."

Your statements imply that you do not believe. "What makes you guys so sure", Can you prove your god". Are these questions from a believer?

I said that there is nothing that I can say or do to prove to you or anyone else that there is a God, only the Spirit of God can draw you to him. I can show you that God exists but unless the Spirit draws you, you wont believe. That is a true statement whether you believe it or not. There is no assumptions on my part.

Anyone can "believe and follow one religion". My question to you mister smarty pants. Is Jesus Christ the Lord of you life?

SIGH..i guess ill say it one more time and maybe it will sink in..I WAS ASKING THE DANG QUESTIONS TO SPARK DEBATE AND MAKE YOU THINK A LITTLE. so please go back and reread what i wrote the first time...notice how i put "just some food for thought" And for your information i am lutheran...so to your last question yes. All i wanted to know from all of you is how do you know your religion is right compared to lets say Mormans, Jews, Muslims..etc And you ASSUMED i was not christian by me asking..so stop trying to say you didnt cause go back and look at your response to me i believe it was somethin along the lines of "nothing i can say will convince you non believers." so yes you did assume i do not believe in god so please dont back track and change your story..you were wrong so face it. Ill think twice before trying to start a debate in this forum again as it is not a "RELIGION" discussion forum as it states..it is a you're wrong unless you are christian forum and were gonna beat it into your heads cause we think were better type deal...so watch how many people you tell are going to hell and what not because not everyone follows your beliefs..if you cant deal with it then this section of the board will come down as it is not a CHRISTIAN forum..it is for all religions..so dont think you own the place

and just fyi this is not all directed at you moondog just the first part..the last part was for whoever i noticed was going on in the guidelines thread telling people they will burn in hell and what not..
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post #41 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-28-2004, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
SIGH..i guess ill say it one more time and maybe it will sink in..I WAS ASKING THE DANG QUESTIONS TO SPARK DEBATE AND MAKE YOU THINK A LITTLE. so please go back and reread what i wrote the first time...notice how i put "just some food for thought" And for your information i am lutheran...so to your last question yes. All i wanted to know from all of you is how do you know your religion is right compared to lets say Mormans, Jews, Muslims..etc And you ASSUMED i was not christian by me asking..so stop trying to say you didnt cause go back and look at your response to me i believe it was somethin along the lines of "nothing i can say will convince you non believers." so yes you did assume i do not believe in god so please dont back track and change your story..you were wrong so face it. Ill think twice before trying to start a debate in this forum again as it is not a "RELIGION" discussion forum as it states..it is a you're wrong unless you are christian forum and were gonna beat it into your heads cause we think were better type deal...so watch how many people you tell are going to hell and what not because not everyone follows your beliefs..if you cant deal with it then this section of the board will come down as it is not a CHRISTIAN forum..it is for all religions..so dont think you own the place

and just fyi this is not all directed at you moondog just the first part..the last part was for whoever i noticed was going on in the guidelines thread telling people they will burn in hell and what not..
Quote:
I guess it really doesn't matter since no matter what we say as "proof", not you nor anyone else is going to believe. A person will only believe when the Holy Spirit draws him to do so.
The you nor anyone else in this statement does not nessesarily mean you, but is meant to mean people in general. You were assuming what I meant. Nowhere does this call you or anyone else a non-believer. It seems as though you are trying to twist my words. There are people who say they are christians that dont believe the whole bible. You have even said yourself:
Quote:
No offense but you do know that man has changed the bible over the years right.
Even though this is an incorrect statement (as pointed above), it is proof that you yourself do not believe everything that is contained in the Bible. This is not an assumption, this is stating fact. Had you said, is it possible for man to change the bible over the years, then I would be assuming you dont believe the Bible is true.
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what makes you guys so sure your religion
Once again, this quote by you implies that you are a non-believer, (even though I never said you were) you were grouping yourself amoungst the non-believers by saying you guys and your religion.

And then after I give you a civil responce to your question, you call me ignorant and tell me to shut up. So then it becomes more than a person asking questions, it becomes a young kid acting tough on the internet attacking my character. They used to call these types of people bullies, now they are called punks.

Oh, in responce to your last statement, yes, it is wrong to go around telling non-believers that they will or are going to Hell. They already know that they are going to Hell so there is no point in telling them. We need to show them the love of God and tell them how they can get to Heaven.
But on the flip side of that, it is true, alot of people around here and millions around the world, if they never change their ways and come to the saving knowledge of Christ, will indeed go to Hell. I didn't say so, God did.

Last edited by MoonDog; 03-28-2004 at 09:27 AM.
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post #42 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-28-2004, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally posted by Josh
Man you don't know what you want to believe do you. LOL

Let me get this straight, you don't want to believe what the Bible says because it was written by man but you are willing to believe in evolution? You do know that evolution was not handed down from God right? It is also written down by the hand of a man. So which will you chose; something written by man as dictated by GOD or, an unproven erroneous theory written by man alone?

As for ET. Not saying it is impossible that life may exists outside of our planet but it is very unlikely. The Bible simply does not address it. However, I can say with the utmost certainty that there is no intelligent life out there.

So you just go through life with blinders on your eyes then..not believing or trusting in anything unless it was set down by the bible....Thats horse shit. Every human being has a pit feeling way down that really wonders why we are here and what we are here to do...its the base of all philosophy..to understand why we "DO". I dont want to live life with only one mind set..I want to know how they all piece together and how they connect us all. Its true evolution was written by us...but its a theory that we made up in our own thoughts which were given to us by God. Am I right? So how can we be punished or anything like that for only utilizing what was given to us? I think in that sense, evolution and God do mix. In any TEST, your not given the answers...you have to study and research and make up your own ways to give meaning to certain things. Life is no different. So in that perspective, Yes, I think everything is interconnected. Like energy. Theres so much we dont know yet and so much shit we already know that changes all the time...so who knows whats going to happen in the future?
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post #43 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-28-2004, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally posted by MoonDog
And no offense to you but you did know that the sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in Qumran dating back to around 500 BC read exactly as the KJV that was written over 2000 years later, right? So to say that man has changed the bible over the years to suit himself is stating something that is incorrect and without basis.

That's actually impossible btw. If it had been translated from arabic (or whatever tongue it was originally written, maybe aramiac I can't remember) into middle english literally, then it wouldn't have made any sense.

Just like you can't literally translate spanish into english. But you can get real close. But real close isn't right on the nose now is it?

Besides, the King James bible was translated during the renaissance. Do you really believe that no one took artistic freedom with the book?

And besides, insulting somebody for what they believe is what causes wars, my friend. So just have an intelligent conversation, rather than starting something that belongs in the smackatorium.

You just proved your ignorance by your intellegent reply, grow up. Young punk kids.
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post #44 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-28-2004, 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by MoonDog
The you nor anyone else in this statement does not nessesarily mean you, but is meant to mean people in general. You were assuming what I meant. Nowhere does this call you or anyone else a non-believer. It seems as though you are trying to twist my words. There are people who say they are christians that dont believe the whole bible. You have even said yourself:

Even though this is an incorrect statement (as pointed above), it is proof that you yourself do not believe everything that is contained in the Bible. This is not an assumption, this is stating fact. Had you said, is it possible for man to change the bible over the years, then I would be assuming you dont believe the Bible is true.

Once again, this quote by you implies that you are a non-believer, (even though I never said you were) you were grouping yourself amoungst the non-believers by saying you guys and your religion.

And then after I give you a civil responce to your question, you call me ignorant and tell me to shut up. So then it becomes more than a person asking questions, it becomes a young kid acting tough on the internet attacking my character. They used to call these types of people bullies, now they are called punks.

Oh, in responce to your last statement, yes, it is wrong to go around telling non-believers that they will or are going to Hell. They already know that they are going to Hell so there is no point in telling them. We need to show them the love of God and tell them how they can get to Heaven.
But on the flip side of that, it is true, alot of people around here and millions around the world, if they never change their ways and come to the saving knowledge of Christ, will indeed go to Hell. I didn't say so, God did.
Once again all you did was repeat yourself instead of answering my question..How is your religion more right then Jews..? How about the muslims..they have religious artifacts and stories that date back just as far as christians so how are they wrong and ours right? Deep down in the far depths of you there is doubt..but you will never admit it for you feel if you dont say it out loud than it is not true i guess..but deep down inside of EVERY single person there is the horrific thought of what if there is nothing more to life and once you die you're done..but that doesnt mean you cant still strongly believe in God..just cant say that you never wonder..or you are lying. And think about it..how many of the worlds people are christians..about 1/5th or so right? Do you honestly think God would let 4/5ths of the world go to hell because of the way they were brought up..if so you are completely ignorant and must think our creator is very cruel..a kid that is born into a muslim society for instance that lives in poverty in india or wherever would have no chance at controlling his religion..and if he died at a young age you're trying to tell me he would go to hell no matter how good of a life he lived..thats just ridiculous and you should know better..how many christians go home and beat their wives/children huh? A LOT! so no being a christian is not your ticket into heaven, (assuming it exists) If you believe so you still have much to learn in life. I suggest you do a lot more soul searching to find out what truly makes a good human being cause it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with religion...There are plenty cases of non religious people being more civilized and moral driven then that of christians..so dont brand all christians as hell bound cause that is retarded..plain and simple
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post #45 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Nickys Shotgun
That's actually impossible btw. If it had been translated from arabic (or whatever tongue it was originally written, maybe aramiac I can't remember) into middle english literally, then it wouldn't have made any sense.

Just like you can't literally translate spanish into english. But you can get real close. But real close isn't right on the nose now is it?

Besides, the King James bible was translated during the renaissance. Do you really believe that no one took artistic freedom with the book?

And besides, insulting somebody for what they believe is what causes wars, my friend. So just have an intelligent conversation, rather than starting something that belongs in the smackatorium.

You just proved your ignorance by your intellegent reply, grow up. Young punk kids.
OK, lest see if I can explain this so that everyone can easily understand. The Masoretic Text, which is the original Hebrew and Greek tests, is what has been used to create our current bible. The KJV has never been used for translation. Every Bible that we have, KJV, NKJV, NIV, American Standard, Good News, Youngs Literal, the list goes on and on, have used the Masoretic Text to translate from. The Masoretic Text dates back to around 1000 AD.

In 1947 the Dead Sea Scrolls were first discovered at Qumran. All of these tests predate Jesus to around ~100 BC, the oldest of which is the famous Isaiah 53 Scroll which dates to ~200 BC. That is only 500 years after Isaiah was actually written.

A comparison of the Masoretic Text to this earlier text revealed a remarkable accuracy with which scribes copied these sacred texts. Accordingly, the integrity of the Bible was confirmed, and has confirmed that any thought of textual alteration was untrue.

The texts from Qumran proved to be word-for-word identical to our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The 5 percent of variation consisted primarily of obvious slips of the pen and spelling alterations. There were no major doctrinal differences between the Masoretic Text and Qumran texts. This demonstrates the accuracy with which scribes copied sacred texts, and boosts our confidence in the Bibleís integrity.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
Once again all you did was repeat yourself instead of answering my question..How is your religion more right then Jews..? How about the muslims..they have religious artifacts and stories that date back just as far as christians so how are they wrong and ours right?
I wasn't merely repeating myself, I was clarifying your statements.

How is MY relationship with God more right then Jews..? How about the muslims..? I will tell you. The prophetic word that is written thoughout the OT. There are hundreds of prophetic passages in the OT dealing with the Messiah, who He is, where He will live, what He will do, even when He will come. HUH? When He will come? Thats right. In Daniel 9:25-27 it says that God has determined 490 years for His people "to finish the transgression". It goes on to say that from the rebuilding of Jerusalem unto the Messiah will be 483 years. A decree was issued in 457 BC, to rebuild Jerusalem, this is the starting point for the 483 years and goes to 27AD, the very year Jesus began His ministry.

So we KNOW that Jesus is the Messiah through Gods prophetic word. Now in the NT it says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it is by grace that we are saved and not by works. If we are not saved by doing good deeds but instead by the grace of God, how does Jesus being the Messiah come into play?

1 Timothy 2:5 says that there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

It is by grace through Jesus Christ that God saves us. John 3:16 God loved us so much that He allowed His Son to die for us that if we would only believe in Him that would would not die but live eternally with Him.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawse771
Do you honestly think God would let 4/5ths of the world go to hell because of the way they were brought up..if so you are completely ignorant and must think our creator is very cruel..a kid that is born into a muslim society for instance that lives in poverty in india or wherever would have no chance at controlling his religion..and if he died at a young age you're trying to tell me he would go to hell no matter how good of a life he lived..thats just ridiculous and you should know better..how many christians go home and beat their wives/children huh? A LOT! so no being a christian is not your ticket into heaven, (assuming it exists) If you believe so you still have much to learn in life
Hey Lance (281r)! Your Lutheran right? Are they teaching you guys that salvation comes by good works in church these days. It doesn't matter what you believe anymore? You can be a Muslim or a Hindu or Mormon as long as you are a good little boy? Might be time to find a new church buddy.
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post #46 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Hawse771
Once again all you did was repeat yourself instead of answering my question..How is your religion more right then Jews..? How about the muslims..they have religious artifacts and stories that date back just as far as christians so how are they wrong and ours right? Deep down in the far depths of you there is doubt..but you will never admit it for you feel if you dont say it out loud than it is not true i guess..but deep down inside of EVERY single person there is the horrific thought of what if there is nothing more to life and once you die you're done..but that doesnt mean you cant still strongly believe in God..just cant say that you never wonder..or you are lying. And think about it..how many of the worlds people are christians..about 1/5th or so right? Do you honestly think God would let 4/5ths of the world go to hell because of the way they were brought up..if so you are completely ignorant and must think our creator is very cruel..a kid that is born into a muslim society for instance that lives in poverty in india or wherever would have no chance at controlling his religion..and if he died at a young age you're trying to tell me he would go to hell no matter how good of a life he lived..thats just ridiculous and you should know better..how many christians go home and beat their wives/children huh? A LOT! so no being a christian is not your ticket into heaven, (assuming it exists) If you believe so you still have much to learn in life. I suggest you do a lot more soul searching to find out what truly makes a good human being cause it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with religion...There are plenty cases of non religious people being more civilized and moral driven then that of christians..so dont brand all christians as hell bound cause that is retarded..plain and simple
Sounds like you need to read "A case for Christ"... Take a look at all the other religions in the world, all of them are a "Do" religion. Christianity is a "Done" faith. The act of salvation is done. Its your choice to believe. On the other hand, if God would send His son to die on the cross and die such a cruelty death. Do you think he would have sent Jesus to the cross and let him die that cruel death if there was another way to heaven? Why wouldnt God tell Jesus. "Jesus, come down off that cross. You dont have to die this cruel death, there is another way we can save the souls of men." That is what makes the only way to heaven is faith in Christ and the message of the cross for a Christian. You sound like you have taken a potluck theology. A little bit of this belief, and a little bit of that belief, oh I'll get to heaven. Hey, you want to find out if Christianity is the right faith, why dont you then submit your life to Christ, go join a church, and see how your life changes. You'll never see anything the same again.

Last edited by 281R; 03-29-2004 at 07:49 AM.
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post #47 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by MoonDog


Hey Lance (281r)! Your Lutheran right? Are they teaching you guys that salvation comes by good works in church these days. It doesn't matter what you believe anymore? You can be a Muslim or a Hindu or Mormon as long as you are a good little boy? Might be time to find a new church buddy.
Nope, that would be incorrect. Salvation only comes by faith. Works will follow by true belief. The Lutheran missiouri synod chuch has never thought that way.
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post #48 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 06:54 AM
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Nope, that would be incorrect. Salvation only comes by faith. Works will follow by true belief. The Lutheran missiouri synod chuch has never thought that way.
OK, just wanted to make sure. I thought they were on the up and up but the way Hawse771 was talking I was beginning to wonder. Could be like you said, he could have been taught "potluck theology" somewhere.
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post #49 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 01:10 PM
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first off..just want to say congratulations on making some truly insightful responses..only took me half a page of smack talk to get it out of you

And no i do not believe the muslims religion is correct..but on the other hand i do not believe that people that cant help their religion will go to hell..as for people living in lets say the US practicing muslim faith..who knows their fate until the day they die..one cannot say. The bible was written a long time ago so you may not know if gods will has changed..maybe he is more lenient and kind now..maybe he is more harsh and unforgiving..one cannot know. He has seen a lot of things happen since the bible was first written so he has to be influenced by whats going on in the world...
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post #50 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-29-2004, 01:22 PM
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The bible was written a long time ago so you may not know if gods will has changed..maybe he is more lenient and kind now..maybe he is more harsh and unforgiving..one cannot know. He has seen a lot of things happen since the bible was first written so he has to be influenced by whats going on in the world...
Like I said "Pot Luck Theology". None of this portrays the "Great I am" in the Bible.
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