Originally posted by tex
If science is built on itself, and is still discounted by you, then how can you say the Bible is infallable, when it has the same support system?? You're still saying that science is flawed, but the Bible isn't.
I'll say it again. I don't discount science. I love it just as much as you guys seem to. I just don't see it from an Atheistic POV. Is this too hard to understand? When we say that some of the scientic methods are flawed we give specific examples of the fallacies.
I've never just said "the dating methods are inaccurate" Why are they inaccurate JC? "I don't know....they are performed by men...they just are" No. I've said that they are flawed because they are based upon assumptions of the past and I've stated what they are. I've asked you to go beyond "it just is flawed" to giving me some proof from the bible that supports your position that it is flawed. You STILL HAVEN'T.
My religion is based upon faith. My stance isn't solely standing on empirical data. Yours is.
I don't believe in God?? How do YOU know this?? Not a single person on this message board has EVER asked me what my beliefs are. Just because I expect people to be able to use logical reasons for supporting their beliefs, I'm suddenly a pagan hater. The whole 'You're stupid, and I'm right because I said so.' I apologize if you don't like my questioning your beliefs, but don't label me without knowing what you're talking about.
You're going on a ranting tangent, Tex. Your comments in recent and in past threads says otherwise. So, either you don't believe in God or you just like taking a stance that you don't believe in for the sake of arguing. Which makes debating with you an excercise in futility because you base your point off false premises. You're also ranting because I don't voice any dislike at you having an opposing position. This is called a debate. I think I'm right. You think I'm wrong and vice versa.
Bad show, JC. I question you guys because I expect you all, as intelligent men, to be able to go beyond the typical church mantra of 'it's right because we said so.'
It's right because God said so.
After 2000 years of organized religion, there has to be something that can be used as support besides 'the Bible is right, and has never been proved wrong.' Don't forget, that none of you have ever seen it proved correct, either.
Sure we have. But this would take another thread. I do not wish to have two different conversations in this thread. Start another, if you wish.
You've seen instances of people solving huge problems in their life, but the truth be told, they did that with their own personal beliefs, not because what they believed in actually existed. The human mind is powerful enough to project it's thoughts into actions that aren't readily recognizable as being humanly possible, but that doesn't mean they're the work of a supreme being. An example:
We've all heard stories about people in situations where they save another person with feats of strength that we can't understand. There are guys who lift cars off of people being crushed, because they are so charged at the moment they don't sit there thinking that they aren't strong enough to do so. They just do it. Now saying that they were able to do so because a supreme being was working through them is a stretch, when you have nothing to prove that it's true. The only difference is that someone recorded the same theories into the Bible, and simply because they're in written form, they must be true. That's too simplistic.
Well you see, this would be your opinion on a certain subject. You and I will always differ on this Tex. I don't constantly berate you for feeling this way. But in the past all of your comments in religious threads were venemous and vile. It will always come down to the fact that I have certain beliefs that you do not.
I can't show you a picture of God, I don't have an autograph from J-dawg (Jesus) I have the word of God and evidence in my life and others that God is real. This is a stumbling block for you because of your perceived relative wisdom.
The Bible says it all: 1 Corinthians 2: 6-16
6 Yet when I am among mature Christians, I do speak with words of wisdom, but not the kind of wisdom that belongs to this world, and not the kind that appeals to the rulers of this world, who are being brought to nothing. 7 No, the wisdom we speak of is the secret wisdom of God, which was hidden in former times, though he made it for our benefit before the world began. 8 But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would never have crucified our glorious Lord. 9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him." 10 But we know these things because God has revealed them to us by his Spirit, and his Spirit searches out everything and shows us even God's deep secrets. 11 No one can know what anyone else is really thinking except that person alone, and no one can know God's thoughts except God's own Spirit. 12 And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. 13 When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. 14 But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. 15 We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all. 16 How could they? For, "Who can know what the Lord is thinking? Who can give him counsel?" F11 But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.