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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Who believes in Karma? Or What goes around comes around?

just curious

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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 10:52 AM
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 11:22 AM
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 11:23 AM
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I totally believe in it. I think of it with everything I do. Some things I decide I can live with the backlash but most of the time I'll put myself in the other person's shoes and it usually changes where I stand. From lost money to gossip to whatever - it all comes back around.

If it's not true, it helps me cope when I've been shat on.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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So now, I ask. What is the concept? I know the technical definition. But why is that you seem to get back what you put out? Why do things always seem to come back to you? We can argue about physical things but, what about this type of stuff? What governs these things?

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 11:52 AM
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"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

When it applies to physics, yeah.



Why? If I treat someone bad will I get it back one day? Why?
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:08 PM
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Mathematics only pertains to the physical realm?
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:23 PM
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Sometimes I belive in karma...other times I don't...
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
Mathematics only pertains to the physical realm?

You have an equation that explains why when I ridicule someone for locking themselves out their car, I wind up doing the same thing the next day?

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
So now, I ask. What is the concept? I know the technical definition. But why is that you seem to get back what you put out? Why do things always seem to come back to you? We can argue about physical things but, what about this type of stuff? What governs these things?

What governs these things? Fate! *another topic in itself* No single person can give the definitive answer to this question but you only have to look at history to make a solid judgement. Take Sadam, Hitler, and Stalin, they were all terrible people who lived by a code of ethics unsurpassed today. They sewed a bad seed and reaped a bad harvest.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
You have an equation that explains why when I ridicule someone for locking themselves out their car, I wind up doing the same thing the next day?
Yes.

Re^aP = S(e^w)
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 01:34 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
Yes.

Re^aP = S(e^w)

Not bad `ol bird one!
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by cobrajet69
What governs these things? Fate! *another topic in itself* No single person can give the definitive answer to this question but you only have to look at history to make a solid judgement. Take Sadam, Hitler, and Stalin, they were all terrible people who lived by a code of ethics unsurpassed today. They sewed a bad seed and reaped a bad harvest.
So is it safe to assume that certain aspects of human life can't be explained by science and tangible proof?
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
So is it safe to assume that certain aspects of human life can't be explained by science and tangible proof?

Absolutely! I'll give you an example: LOVE
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 02:45 PM
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I believe in what goes around comes around but maybe from a little different perspective.

As a Christian if i'm doing "good" things then i'm probably somewhere close to God's will for my life and that's always a good thing. If i'm doing "bad" things - acting improperly - then sin is probably occurring and we know that the wages of sin is death. In other words, God may forgive me of the sin but may also allow the consequences of the sin to stay. I get "bad karma".

So to me i'm creating "good karma" when i'm doing as God would have me do. Sometimes I fail

There are literally dozens of verses in the Bible directing us on how we should live. If we are in His will then we will receive His blessings as He sees fit. This is what "comes around".
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by cobrajet69
What governs these things? Fate! *another topic in itself* No single person can give the definitive answer to this question but you only have to look at history to make a solid judgement. Take Sadam, Hitler, and Stalin, they were all terrible people who lived by a code of ethics unsurpassed today. They sewed a bad seed and reaped a bad harvest.

What tha heck is fate?

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 03:23 PM
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BTW, I don't believe in Karma one bit.

How do you explain people being incarcerated for decades for crimes they did not commit?

How do you explain slave masters getting rich off of the hard work of their slaves?

The prisoners and the slaveowners both got treatment they did not "earn", positive for one, and negative for the other.

It's another way of keeping populations in line. If everyone is doing good for everyone else (and expecting the same in return), then you will have a peaceful society.

Frankly, I believe it is an extension of the message of Christianity, except that Karma affects how you will be dealt with in this world, while Christianity affects how you will be dealt with in the afterlife. Both seek to create harmony and good will towards other people, for the betterment of civilization.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
What tha heck is fate?

fate noun

1. That which is inevitably destined

2. A predestined tragic end


fate verb


1. To determine the future of in advance


*but then you knew that, didn't you*

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:22 PM
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Since we are showing definitions. I would like to show why I don't believe in karma. Karma is not the same thing as "What goes around, comes around."

==============
kar·ma (kärma)
n.
The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny.
==============

This is used by Hinduism and Buddhism to determine what happens after life.

Christianity teaches that there is no works we can do to earn a place in heaven.
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:26 PM
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should've been a poll

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:54 PM
 
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I believe it does in one way or another. May take a long time, but eventually we pay for our sins and are rewarded for our good deeds.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 01:42 AM
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same here. no karma, but you get what you deserve

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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The point of this topic was to ask the question "How is this obvious "Law of Reciprocity" governed?

You might not believe in the ideology called "karma" but, somehow you know that one always "gets what they deserved"

Was this concept part of the random beginnings that Evolutionists propagate? What governs it?

Can you Atheists, tell me what this is?

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
Can you Atheists, tell me what this is?
You are asking atheists to explain believing in something!? Bah!
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
The point of this topic was to ask the question "How is this obvious "Law of Reciprocity" governed?

You might not believe in the ideology called "karma" but, somehow you know that one always "gets what they deserved"

Was this concept part of the random beginnings that Evolutionists propagate? What governs it?

Can you Atheists, tell me what this is?
Why evolutionists or aetheists?

Almost every religion on this planet has a definition for their version of karma. How else could we live with ourselves with people that commit murder, steal, rape and lie and yet live without being ever found guilty of their crimes? We invented a way where it will be dealt with in the next chapter (eventually answering to God, being reincarnated, etc.). This goes for Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, atheists and agnostics.

It's human character that demands it be dealt with, if not this life, the next.
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Why evolutionists or aetheists?

Almost every religion on this planet has a definition for their version of karma. How else could we live with ourselves with people that commit murder, steal, rape and lie and yet live without being ever found guilty of their crimes? We invented a way where it will be dealt with in the next chapter (eventually answering to God, being reincarnated, etc.). This goes for Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, atheists and agnostics.

It's human character that demands it be dealt with, if not this life, the next.
No, no. I'm not talking about the different religious descriptions of what this phenomena is called.

I'm asking you (yes you) to explain from the stance that you've taken on Evolution and the beginnings of life, to explain how this phenomena came to be. Is it a product of evolution? Do our cells somehow control this? Can you explain this, or it is safe to say that somethings can't be explained with logic or science?

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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
No, no. I'm not talking about the different religious descriptions of what this phenomena is called.

I'm asking you (yes you) to explain from the stance that you've taken on Evolution and the beginnings of life, to explain how this phenomena came to be. Is it a product of evolution? Do our cells somehow control this? Can you explain this, or it is safe to say that somethings can't be explained with logic or science?
Why would an evolutionist explain karma at all? Karma is from Hinudism and Buddhism, both religions that believe in reincarnation. To believe in karma would be to believe in reincarnation, you can't pick and choose pieces of a philosophy or religion. Buddism doesn't rule out evolution, but it also isn't required .

I don't think evolutionists believe in reincarnation. The concept of evolution is based chiefly on cause and effect, organisms changed and adapted to new surroundings.

In evolution, there is no direct evolutionary trail, which would be required for evolutionists to believe in a karma philosophy. Evolution would be more like a series of blind paths. Some reaching some new evolutionary platform, some going no where. Cause and effect exists, but karma doesn't.

You are attempting to take two ideas and combine them, which makes no sense at all.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Why would an evolutionist explain karma at all? Karma is from Hinudism and Buddhism, both religions that believe in reincarnation. To believe in karma would be to believe in reincarnation, you can't pick and choose pieces of a philosophy or religion. Buddism doesn't rule out evolution, but it also isn't required .

I don't think evolutionists believe in reincarnation. The concept of evolution is based chiefly on cause and effect, organisms changed and adapted to new surroundings.

In evolution, there is no direct evolutionary trail, which would be required for evolutionists to believe in a karma philosophy. Evolution would be more like a series of blind paths. Some reaching some new evolutionary platform, some going no where. Cause and effect exists, but karma doesn't.

You are attempting to take two ideas and combine them, which makes no sense at all.
Actually no. I could care less if we ever used the word "karma" in this thread again. What I'm trying to do is get you to explain the concept behind those religions theology.

Cause and effect does not explain how things come back on people.

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
Actually no. I could care less if we ever used the word "karma" in this thread again. What I'm trying to do is get you to explain the concept behind those religions theology.

Cause and effect does not explain how things come back on people.
You started this post about karma. The discussion doesn't go the way you want to so you change the topic.

You are reading what you want to read. I explained it to you.

A true evolutionist would not try to example "how things come back on people" since they wouldn't believe in it. The would explain it as a weak person's way of dealing with bad things instead of their belief that evolution is a series of blind paths that sometimes result in nothing and sometimes result in a jump in evolution.

Like the t-shirts say, "...is life. the rest are just details."

A pure evolutionist wouldn't look at a murder and say, "Just wait he'll get what's coming to him" and truly believe it.
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
You started this post about karma. The discussion doesn't go the way you want to so you change the topic.
I would hope that you would be able to see from my past posts that I don't behave like that. I only wished to find a word that closest described the concept of "Karma", "Reap what you sow" or " What goes around comes around" You can see how my question progressed in the 4th reply out, even before you, or anyone else with your mindset attempted to "explain" it.
Quote:

You are reading what you want to read. I explained it to you.
Yes, you attempted to explain to me the religious concepts behind the the term. Which I did not ask you to do? I asked you to explain why the concept happens in the first place.

Quote:

A true evolutionist would not try to example "how things come back on people" since they wouldn't believe in it.
So evolutionists do not not believe that treating people badly will not come back on them? Are you sure about that?

Quote:

The would explain it as a weak person's way of dealing with bad things instead of their belief that evolution is a series of blind paths that sometimes result in nothing and sometimes result in a jump in evolution.
What does this have to do with a non-tangible object?

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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 12:19 PM
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Allow me..
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
I asked you to explain why the concept happens in the first place.
It doesn't. Period, end of story.

From a pure evolutionist's POV, there is no cosmic or divine force that dishes out punishment or payment for actions done.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
Allow me.. It doesn't. Period, end of story.

Weird. I've never met anyone who didn't believe that just a little. You sure you guys just aren't being dogmatic?

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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 12:52 PM
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What's the point of believing something just a little?

Either you buy it or you don't, and according to what I have posted, I don't. I won't debate whether I'm right or wrong, but from what I've seen, there is no retribution for any action that can be without-a-doubt linked to a higher power.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
What's the point of believing something just a little?
ahhhhh like you've never been on the fence about something.

Quote:

Either you buy it or you don't, and according to what I have posted, I don't. I won't debate whether I'm right or wrong, but from what I've seen, there is no retribution for any action that can be without-a-doubt linked to a higher power.
I won't debate it either. Too much typing.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 01:10 PM
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LMBO!
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 06:45 PM
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i definately believe in karma..... Ive had things come back to haunt me and honestly I just kinda smiled and said yeah I deserved that
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
When it applies to physics, yeah.



Why? If I treat someone bad will I get it back one day? Why?
because we all don't get along is the best way to answer that question. someone may not like because of your car, your skin color, your name, your choice in music, etc.... so there is a pretty good chance that if you are mean to someone then someone else will be mean to you. the odds are stacked against it not happening.
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 12:33 AM
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ok, first things first....."karma" if it does exist is a very finicky thing but i really believe it to be THE LAW OF AVERAGES......everyone has great days, everyone has crappy days....if you have friends eventually you'll get hurt by one of them, if you drive a car long enough you'll be in a wreck (or darn near close to one)....i mean, just because you were mean or insensitive to one person doesn't cause this ripple that eventually comes back to you. i think the law of averages is self-explanatory. when someone gets in a wreck you're much more likely to say it was the law of averages than "bad karma".....what about a woman getting raped, she goes jogging at night in a dark park and i think it would be the law of averages that tells us the probability of it happening increases every time she jogs there...it's not bad karma. people that are great, honest ppl that would never hurt anyone get hurt too and suffer too. that would make the argument for karma as such "karma exists only for wrong-doers and their actions shall come back on them, but.......everyone else suffers from LIFE and it's not karma"

also....scientists HAVE been able to explain love in a scientific way and it equates to the same hormones/endorphins ? being released when you see "the guy/girl of your dreams" , some unbelievably hot person you'd jump on in a second. of course in love you like everything about the person but it always comes down to how they make you "feel" and that equates to physical emotions that are controlled by substances in your body. you can't think about the love of your life with just your brain and "feel" something for them....your body releases the hormones and such which in turn makes you feel that way.

mike meyers' sat. night live jewish lady voice/ oi, i'm all vaklempt, discuss amongst yourselves.... (sorry bout the spelling)
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