Noah and the Flood. Fact or fantasy? - DFWstangs Forums
View Poll Results: Noah and the Flood
It is a true literal story. 14 82.35%
It is a true story but not to be taken literally. 1 5.88%
It is a myth. 2 11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-05-2004, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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Noah and the Flood. Fact or fantasy?

Just wonder what your thoughts are on this story. World-wide flood? How did he fit all the animals in the world on the boat? How did he gather all the animals from different continents? Where did all the water come from? What about dinosaurs, were they on the ark as well?

I have my ideas.

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-05-2004, 08:15 AM
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I take it as face value from what I have researched and seen.
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-05-2004, 11:28 AM
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Yes. There was a flood

No. All the animals in the world were not on the ark

Dinos were on the ark

Water came from the sky, from underground wells and all kinds of places. The "firmament" Whatever that is. I need to go read again. LOL

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-05-2004, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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I bet this would get a better response on the Back Porch.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and see what the responses are since it is not on the BP.

How did he fit all the types of animals on the boat?

How did he fit dinosaurs on the boat?

How did he gather them all to one location from all the continents?

There is not not enough water on the earth to cover the planet.

So where did it come from? Genesis says that the highest mountain was 20ft beneath the water?

Is there any geological evidence of a worldwide flood?

Was it even possible for a man to build such a large vesel in ancient times?
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-06-2004, 09:15 AM
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I am sure most of you have heard of Dr. Carl Baugh at Creation Evidences Museum in Glen Rose. He has a pretty good theory on how and why the global flood happened.

Basicly he says that the earth was surrounded by a crystalized canapy of water.
Quote:
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Second, the earths magnetic field has a half life of about 1400 years. If the earth was created around 4000 BC then somewhere around 2600 BC the magnetic field would be half as strong. If you go through the geneology of Adam up to the time of the flood, you will see that the time frame is right at 1656 years or 2344 BC. It is Dr. Baugh's theory that the crystalized canapy of water was not strong enough to hold once the magnetic field weakened, thus giving us a global flood.

As far as what animals made it onto the ark. I think most every animal was on the ark including dinosaurs. There were some that were not on, case in point, the bible mentions a unicorn six times in the OT. This was an actual creature that lived before the flood but for whatever reason it was not on the ark.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-06-2004, 10:13 AM
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I voted it is a true literal story.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-06-2004, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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The animals all fit because he did not have to take all varieties of each species. He took a pair of dogs, a pair of goats, seven sheep, etc... Speciation, is what gives us 50,000 breeds of the dog species today, and pig and sheep, not evolution. Natural selection does work in the creationists eyes but it not a vehicle for trans-speciation.

Did you know the average size of a dinosaur was no bigger than a small dog. That makes it very believable that he could fit dinosaurs on the ark. What about the brontosaurus, how did he fit those huge monsters aboard? The Bible never claims that these animals were full grown adults. They could have been adolescence.

It is very possible that the seperation of Pangea (when the continents where one land mass) occoured during the great flood. Genesis speaks of God's gathering of all the water into one place, that could very well be the description of Pangea. The seperation of the continents, coupled with the firmament breaking open could have very easily flooded the earth.
*There is more explination due here but I haven't sufficient time to type.

I'll respond later to my other questions.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 01:14 PM
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Question....Not that I don't believe but this just popped into my head. Where did all the water go?
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 02:51 PM
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When it rained for 40 days it took about a year and a half before Noah was able to find land. It took that long before the waters receeded enough for dry land to begin to appear. I am quite sure it took many more years after that for the rest of the land masses to appear. Besides, the oceans at that time were more than likely smaller seas, lakes and ponds since it had never rained before Noahs time.
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
When it rained for 40 days it took about a year and a half before Noah was able to find land. It took that long before the waters receeded enough for dry land to begin to appear. I am quite sure it took many more years after that for the rest of the land masses to appear. Besides, the oceans at that time were more than likely smaller seas, lakes and ponds since it had never rained before Noahs time.
So what it just evaporated? And what's this about it had never rained before noah's time? I've never heard that before.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by dan962000
So what it just evaporated? And what's this about it had never rained before noah's time? I've never heard that before.
Evaporated, soaked into the ground, created larger rivers, streams and oceans.

There is a verse: "Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." That along with the theory of the crystalized canopy encompassing the earth, it is believed and tought throughout the church that it never rained before the flood. I believe there is another verse somewhere but it escapes me right now.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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In the theory I am suggsesting the continents split during the flood. When the continents split it opened up a void making room for the water to be contained.

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Listen

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 10:43 PM
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I voted as a myth. I see it as a moral fable invented by frustrated storytellers trying to explain concepts that they could not comprehend or understand. So they made something up.

The point of the fable is to "Do what God says...Otherwise you will die." and give validity to the answer "Because God said so"

In addition, it also shores up the standard Christian defense of the bible "Anyone can do anything with God on their side" to the point that anyone questioning the factual accuracy of the bible will be met by this stock line which does no good other than closing minds.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-07-2004, 11:56 PM
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So are you saying that anyone who believes the Bible is any less than literal is close minded?

There are other religious texts throughout history from different cultures that have stories about a global flood (Babylonians come to mind), which just adds to the validity of the Bible. The flood is no more a myth that a meteor hitting the earth and sending the world into a global ice age.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2004, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Good point Moondog,
Macro-Evolution, the prolifiration of dinosaurs, all theories.

The Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories
Quote:
The Flood

In ancient times the sea made the watermarks on the mountains and ranges. For example Mt. House, Mt. Waterloo, Mt. Hann all have these watermarks, they are right on top. The reason for this flood was men killed the old woman's third son, the one she loved.

This old lady went down and speared the 'eye' of the sea. It is said that she was staying on Nowulu Island. The son was dear to her. They told her "They have killed him; already they have taken his life", they told her. "Ah", she said. She wept once and did not weep again. "I'll finish them" she said. She went over to a place called Garajin and there she speared and poked the small 'hole"in the sea. The sea went back and back exceedingly, it sucked it right out. The place was left hard and dry and the fish were flapping about on the hard (bottom) place for there was no water. At that time the mountains were made.

We say, the present tides don't rise like this. For this sea travelled across like a range to them. The mountains sank beneath it. Then she finished them. They were drowned. While still there was no water, that is at the time when it disappeared, she picked up turtle and fish and took them up to the top of the hill at Nowulu The place is called Nowulu, it's an island, that the place she climbed up to. Here she remained and dug for water right on the top Then that one - the sea - was travelling and all the mainland was underneath it. That was the time it went back. That time it finished them; it drowned all those men. Only those who climbed right on top, over there, only those may be living. Then they returned this way. that was the sea that drowned all the men of that generation on the earth. Then (that time) they made themselves into turtle and fish and now those of that generation are living creatures in the sea. They were people first but they made themselves sea- creatures. The sea drowned them all.
Quote:
The Bundaba Flood Story
As told by Jimmy Bird.
Long, long ago there was a great flood. It originated from the fact of some children who found the 'winking' owl in a tree and plucked out all its feathers. They forced a grass reed through its nose and treated the bird most shamefully. The bird flew without wings, into the heavens and showed himself to Ngowungu, the Great Father. Ngowungu became very angry and decided to drown the people.

Later the people saw a small cloud rising which grew bigger and bigger till it spread all over the sky. The thunder began to roll and crash and the people were greatly afraid.

With the rain and thunder was a terrible wind which broke great limbs off trees and rooted up others. During this terrible storm there was a noise above the awful crashes of thunder. This noise was coming from the north. The salt water, the sea, came pouring over the ranges from the north. The flood rose higher and higher till all the land was covered except the tops of two or three mountains.

From further west a man and his wives with a dog were battling their way in a canoe when a bird with a leaf in its mouth flew in front of them showing them the way to Mt. Broome. They eventually reached Mt. Broome and landed there where some other survivors were.

Then Djabalgari, the great left-handed man incised his little finger and let the blood trickle down into the flood waters. The waters began to go down and eventually disappeared off the country. All other people were drowned.
Quote:
A Western Desert Tradition
(contributed by W.H. Douglas)

KURANGARA
Long ago, in the Creation country across the sea to the west, some people saw these red-legged birds strutting along with their heads moving up and down. Whenever the people approached them they moved forward always keeping the same distance between themselves and their followers.

There were millions of these birds, and they were much taller than they are today. The men followed them to discover where they were all going. The birds walked east and eventually led the men to the coast of Australia. They stepped out of the sea where Fremantle is today, then turned north and walked up the coast. The men continued to follow them. When they reached the point just below where Port Hedland is now situated the great flood came.

The sky opened and the water poured down in a great deluge. Many people were drowned, but some were saved on mangrove boats. They paddled towards the ranges in Central Australia, the Mardudjara people (now camped at Jigalong) leading the way. They were the first people to take dogs to the centre of the continent.

At last they reached the MacDonnell Ranges, but then the receding waters turned to ice. By this time, another group of people had come into the north of Australia, so this southern group was trapped. At this stage, the 'Watt Kutiara' the itwo gods' came into action and began digging a way through the ranges, but this method proved too slow and the people would have perished before they could be freed. So, the Wati Kutjara blasted their way through, cleaving the ranges apart (as at Stanley Chasm) and so opened an escape route. The people surged forward with great relief and passed through the opening to salvation. However, they were faced with a great disappointment, for beyond the range there was only a great empty land.

Other stories.

Quote:
Maya (southern Mexico and Guatemala):
The Puzob, an industrious dwarf people, were the first inhabitants of the earth. God destroyed them with a flood because of their carelessness in their observation of custom. They heard that a terrible storm was coming, so they put some stones in a pond and sat on them, but the dwarfs were all destroyed. Jesucristo sent down four angels to investigate what was happening on earth. They removed their clothes and bathed, whereupon they became doves. Some other angels were sent down; they were turned into buzzards when they ate the dead. [Horcasitas, p. 194]

In the first period of the world lived the Saiyamkoob, "the Adjusters," a dwarf race which built cities now in ruins. They worked in darkness, as the sun had not yet appeared. When it did, they turned to stone, and their images can be found in the ruins. Food for the workers was lowered by rope from the sky, but the rope was cut, the blood ran out of it, and the earth and sky separated. This period ended with water over the earth. The Tsolob, "the Offenders," lived in the second period. These, too were destroyed by a flood. The Maya reigned during the third period, but their period was also ended by flood. The fourth and present age is peopled by a mixture of all previous races. [Alexander, 1920, p. 153]

After people were created, the sky fell upon the earth, and the waters followed them. The world was destroyed. The four Bacab gods managed to escape and now hold up the four corners of the sky. [Horcasitas, p. 191]

Two floods had destroyed humanity. Three people escaped a third and final flood in a canoe. [Horcasitas, p. 191]
Quote:
Roman:
Jupiter, angered at the evil ways of humanity, resolved to destroy it. He was about to set the earth to burning, but considered that that might set heaven itself afire, so he decided to flood the earth instead. With Neptune's help, he caused storm and earthquake to flood everything but the summit of Parnassus, where Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha came by boat and found refuge. Recognizing their piety, Jupiter let them live and withdrew the flood. Deucalion and Pyrrha, at the advice of an oracle, repopulated the world by throwing "your mother's bones" (stones) behind them; each stone became a person. [Ovid, book 1]
Quote:
Welsh:
The lake of Llion burst, flooding all lands. Dwyfan and Dwyfach escaped in a mastless ship with pairs of every sort of living creature. They landed in Prydain (Britain) and repopulated the world. [Gaster, pp. 92-93]
Quote:
Lithuanian:
From his heavenly window, the supreme god Pramzimas saw nothing but war and injustice among mankind. He sent two giants, Wandu and Wejas (water and wind), to destroy earth. After twenty days and nights, little was left. Pramzimas looked to see the progress. He happened to be eating nuts at the time, and he threw down the shells. One happened to land on the peak of the tallest mountain, where some people and animals had sought refuge. Everybody climbed in and survived the flood floating in the nutshell. God's wrath abated, he ordered the wind and water to abate. The people dispersed, except for one elderly couple who stayed where they landed. To comfort them, God sent the rainbow and advised them to jump over the bones of the earth nine times. They did so, and up sprang nine other couples, from which the nine Lithuanian tribes descended. [Gaster, p. 93]
Quote:
Cherokee (Great Lakes area; eastern Tennessee):
Day after day, a dog stood at the river bank and howled piteously. Rebuked by his master, the dog said a flood was coming, and he must build and provision a boat. Furthermore, the dog said, he must throw him, the dog, into the water. For a sign that he spoke the truth, the dog showed the back of his neck, which was raw and bare with flesh and bone showing. The man followed directions, and he and his family survived; from them, the present population is descended. [Gaster, pp. 116-117]
Obviouslly there is something to this story. IMO,This type of evidence provides much more creedance to the fact that it happened than most secular theories.
Here is a link to many flood stories from around the world.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2004, 04:39 PM
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To a point, yes I believe that anyone who believes the bible is literal history to have closed their mind to other possibilities.

And I'd like to thank you for making my point. I never said that the Flood didn't happen. I said think that Noah and all the things given in the bible are so out of the realm of plausible reality that it more fiction than fact.

As you put it, religous texts across the world say a flood happened. Did any of them say what happened without invoking some mystical/supernatural Soap Opera? Given the evidence that the Flood happened, how would somone with no understanding of nature, meterology, geography even begin to attempt to explain it? Must be the invisible man in the sky.

My 2 yr old niece asked her dad what rain was and he said it was Angels taking a shower. She instantly accepted that as fact, similar to a lot of Christians lapping up the Bible as absolute truth without question. I see a lot of Christian beliefs in the bible (specifically the Old Testament) as someone not knowing the real answer and just making something up to appease the masses and serve their agenda of control over a population.

"Believe 100% and ask no questions, or Die. BTW, I Love You. Signed God."


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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2004, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
To a point, yes I believe that anyone who believes the bible is literal history to have closed their mind to other possibilities.

And I'd like to thank you for making my point. I never said that the Flood didn't happen. I said think that Noah and all the things given in the bible are so out of the realm of plausible reality that it more fiction than fact.
Chris, how can you say this? Do you acknowledge that there is a God? I thought you did... And if there is a God why dose He need to be put into a little box saying that "yea theres a God, but theres no way that He could interact with Noah and build an ark" Sounds like you have put God in a box.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi

As you put it, religous texts across the world say a flood happened. Did any of them say what happened without invoking some mystical/supernatural Soap Opera? Given the evidence that the Flood happened, how would somone with no understanding of nature, meterology, geography even begin to attempt to explain it? Must be the invisible man in the sky.
Chris, could you explain what an angel looks like? From Biblical text there are many people that saw them and how did they know what they were? From our creators interaction.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi

My 2 yr old niece asked her dad what rain was and he said it was Angels taking a shower. She instantly accepted that as fact, similar to a lot of Christians lapping up the Bible as absolute truth without question. I see a lot of Christian beliefs in the bible (specifically the Old Testament) as someone not knowing the real answer and just making something up to appease the masses and serve their agenda of control over a population.
Chris, this quote serves nothing. People tell their children Santa Clause exist and only to grow older they discover he dose not. Your entitled to your own opinion, but you are not Moses, Jacob, Elijah, etc.... (or any other person from the old testiment). You cannot correctly make a judgement on what they saw other than what has been written. I could tell you I saw an angel and it told me to go help some person at some place and time. Could you determine if I was telling the truth? You probably would say no. But what if I was right? Christianity is not about being controlled. Its about being set free. If your in it for any other reason you are barking up the wrong tree.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi

"Believe 100% and ask no questions, or Die. BTW, I Love You. Signed God."

Who ever told you this really dosent sound like they knew Christ. A follower of Christ ask many question and has many doubts. But its that leap of faith and seeing the your life change that brings you joy even in the times of dispair.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-08-2004, 06:40 PM
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Well, this isn't about me.

But to put it quite simply, I feel that in my walk with God I've been stood up.

Does God exist? Hell I I know. But I don't see anything other than guilt and fear as reasons to believe. There is no "Love" in church, it's just a bunch of people looking to outdo each other on how pious they are and who's a better Christian. It's a bunch of bullcrap and I refuse to bring myself down to that level.


That's all I'm going to say on that for now.



*Edited by JC because of language*

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-09-2004, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
Well, this isn't about me.

But to put it quite simply, I feel that in my walk with God I've been stood up.
Chris, what are your expectations from God in your search for Him?
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi

Does God exist? Hell I I know. But I don't see anything other than guilt and fear as reasons to believe. There is no "Love" in church, it's just a bunch of people looking to outdo each other on how pious they are and who's a better Christian. It's a bunch of bullshit and I refuse to bring myself down to that level.


That's all I'm going to say on that for now.
Chris, I am not sure what so called church you are going to.. But thats not the additude that Christ portrays for His church. Read the NT in the Bible about the Church and you will find the exact oppisite of your statement above. Chris, me and Im sure a lot of other guys in this forum are devout Christians and do not share the above statement you made. And are willing to help you and be your friends in your walk in the faith. Just ask, and we will try to help and support you. And that is what a church family is really for. Not the above reason. And Im sorry you feel that way. But I pray that you will open you heart again to Christ, and find a healthy church family. My offer is still on the table, come to church with me on a Sunday. My church is not like the statement above. God has made you for a signifigant purpose, it may be big or it may be small, but however, its important. You are a person of value to the Lord.
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-09-2004, 11:49 PM
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I respect your beliefs Chris but to sit there and say anyone who believes in a literal translation of the Bible is close minded is being a little judgemental. And you say that there is no love in the church, but it is you who has come in here with a huge chip on your shoulder. Have you thought that maybe the reason you are not receiving any so called love from the church is becuase you yourself are not giving any in return? Its a two way street. Besides, why should you give a flip what the church does or doesn't do? What do they have to do with your relationship with God? God loves you unconditionally, whether you love Him or not. Why is everyone so concerned with what the church is doing instead of what God is doing? I could really careless if the church was comprised of 99.9% hypocrites, it would not change my mind about God one bit. If you ask me it is just one big copout, just one more excuse to replace God with worldly things.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2004, 01:52 PM
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I believe it actually happened... until it can be proven that it didn't.

Question on this, im not a big bible buff, But was this the only time that God actually intervened with man?

I know god is supposed to let man go at his/her on will and not interact... but in this case he obviously did?
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-11-2004, 10:59 AM
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Chris what are you expecting from God that makes you think He's stood you up?

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-11-2004, 10:53 PM
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I don't really want to go into this too deep because quite frankly the times I have mentioned my beliefs/conflictions/thoughts I've had my them picked apart and turned against me. And it has made me extremely reluctant to discuss it anymore with anyone. Not so much here, but in the "real world". Hence my negative attitude towards organized religon. That's largely why I haven't said anything in a few days about this.

What I "expected": That's a loaded statement. I never approached it with the attitude "If God is real then he'll make sure no cops are up ahead" or anything like that. All I hear from Christians is how they had this overwhelming experiance or sense of peace flow over them that connected them to God/Christ for the first time or throughout their life. It wasn't something i was looking for or expecting, but upon reflection I can't recall ever feeling anything close to that. I'm sure if I had a spiritual awakening or journey I'd notice or be aware of it. In short, I guess you can say that I never felt connected spiritually regardless of what I've done.

And please drop the "its a two way street" comments. That is absolutely insulting. You do not know me or have any idea what I felt or the leaps of faith I made, yet automatically the reason I feel detached is because I didn't love enough and prefer worldy possessions? Please. Read on because I think I was at your church.

I've been to 10 different churches over the past year, giving about a month towards each and getting a feel for the different denominations and beliefs. I went to the adult bible study a few times at each church, and the things I saw at a few bothered the hell out of me (pun not intended).

Why does the attitude of the congregation/church bother me? Because I'm immature in my knowledge of God. But i'm also stubborn that that I am not going to believe something just because someone said to believe it or go to hell. And that's exactly what happened at these churches. They didn't even know me, yet they condemned me with their words in that because I was hesitant to accept their words as Truth, I was a failure as a Christian and would be better off somewhere else.

In fact, and what led me to post on this thread in the first place, was that this very question was asked at an adult bible study class that I had attended about 4 times already. When I said I wasn't sure if it was true, you would've thought I was in Salem during the witch trials. I ended up leaving mid class because of the judgemental and insulting things that were said towards and about me.

So yes, to answer the unasked question, it makes me sick. It makes me angry. How would you feel if in your thirst for knowledge someone shut the door to the library in your face and said you weren't good enough? Or even worse, showing up a dealership and saying you don't know much about cars? It was quite surprising how everyone turned into a spiritual used car salesman and pitched their beliefs when I said I didn't know much.

I don't know WHAT to expect so I don't bother..I know enough not to test God, so I don't. I've had enough pain in my life to wonder if there is really a God, so the fact that I am still trying to seek it out should at least say something.

Last edited by Jedi; 02-11-2004 at 10:56 PM.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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I applaud you Jedi for you at least are seeking some truth, whatever that may be. Most of those who condemn, Christianity, God, Jesus, what have you, have never once cracked a Bible much less study it.
I can assure you this much, if you study the Bible long enough God will draw you to Him. "Draw Nigh Unto God and He Will Draw Nigh Unto You" (James 4:8) I am watching this happen as we speak, a close friend of mine who was just last year a professing agnostic, is very near to accepting Christ as his Saviour. This did not happen with going to church or a Bible study, this happened by his own searching the scriptures and one on one conversation with myself. (That is not to say it can not happen with a visit to church.) All credit is due to the proding of the Holy Spirit.

I truly am sorry for the experience you had at the with those church groups. Sounds like they are uncomfortable with the questions you ask. Perhaps it is because they don't know the answer themselves.
I find it better to have a conversation with a person, such as yourself, one on one. This keeps the person from feeling intimidated and frees them to ask any question they wish. It also avoids the chaos of 10 people trying to answer the same question at once.
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by trey85stang
I believe it actually happened... until it can be proven that it didn't.

Question on this, im not a big bible buff, But was this the only time that God actually intervened with man?

I know god is supposed to let man go at his/her on will and not interact... but in this case he obviously did?
Free will was still at play. All those that inhabited the world were given the oportunity to repent and board the ark.
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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To a point, yes I believe that anyone who believes the bible is literal history to have closed their mind to other possibilities.
The same could be argued for those who do not give a literal translation a chance. I am opened minded; I consider the problem, next the different theories/solutions, I then discard the solutions that are not possible. If I find that there are several solutions that fit the problem I go with the one that agrees with the Bible. So sure there are other possible solutions to any given problem, I just choose to go with the one the Bible says is correct. Take the evolution/creation debate; both sides have the same evidence, I choose to interpret it in a way that agrees with the Bible. That is not to say that the evedince is manipulated just interpreted to fit the model.
So I am able to be both open minded and interpret the Bible literally.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
And I'd like to thank you for making my point. I never said that the Flood didn't happen. I said think that Noah and all the things given in the bible are so out of the realm of plausible reality that it more fiction than fact.
Link to the following text.
Differences in the flood traditions are also relevant (as a proof). The Genesis record talks of there being only one race of man from the time of the flood until the tower of Babel. At the tower of Babel, God dispersed the people over the surface of the world by giving them different languages. It is therefore to be expected that the stories of the flood would contain not only profound similarities but also differences. These differences would be due to both the confusion of tongues and the varying relationships to the true God which cultures had.



Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
As you put it, religous texts across the world say a flood happened. Did any of them say what happened without invoking some mystical/supernatural Soap Opera? Given the evidence that the Flood happened, how would somone with no understanding of nature, meterology, geography even begin to attempt to explain it? Must be the invisible man in the sky.

My 2 yr old niece asked her dad what rain was and he said it was Angels taking a shower. She instantly accepted that as fact, similar to a lot of Christians lapping up the Bible as absolute truth without question.
The sole purpose of supplying the other stories was to lend evidentiary support that the flood account agreed with the Genesis account, that is to say it actually happened. It was not intended as irrefutable proof that God made it happen.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
I see a lot of Christian beliefs in the bible (specifically the Old Testament) as someone not knowing the real answer and just making something up to appease the masses and serve their agenda of control over a population.

"Believe 100% and ask no questions, or Die. BTW, I Love You. Signed God."

I am appeased by my own discovery and understanding, not by what someone tells me. Sure I borrow and awfull lot of information from other sources, but it is all tested by the guidence of the Holy Spirit. I try to never take something at face value. I go through the same "open minded" approach as I outlined above.

Last edited by Josh; 02-12-2004 at 01:17 AM.
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 12:11 PM
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Chris-

I can understand how your experiences with so-called Christians could have pushed you away. I know that on this board and sometimes in this particular forum we debate about doctrine and theology but, I hope you know that there is another side to being a Christian.

Try to understand that some people have never questioned, at least not publicly, their theology. They have never been around people that have a disbelief of mis-trust of God and His truths. Some Christians can be so cold and so "holy" (I use that term sarcasticly) that they have no love for someone who doesn't quite understand the scriptures.

Even you know enough to realize that this isn't right. Even you know that this type of attitude wasn't what Jesus was about. So I ask you, have you ever met Christians that didn't treat you like that? Do we, in the theology forum, treat you like a witch if you ask a honest question? Do I shake your hand when I see you in person or try to burn you at the stake?

Can you look at the life of Jesus and see how those actions aren't consistent with his teachings?

Ahhhhh here, listen to Paul in 1 Corinthians

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-18-2004, 04:39 PM
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I owe out an apology here. I apologize for some of my statements above. I'm not going to edit them though as seeing them keeps me a bit more grounded as I can be reminded of my weakness to generalize.

I've had some nasty encounters with Christians who are hell bent on proving they are more holy than the people who go to church across the street as well as other facets of "competition". Seeing these people at chruch after church after church really led me to apply that to the majority of people.

Then I realized something. I live in Plano.

Duh. Religous or not, that behavior is the bread and butter of a Plano-ite.

Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
I owe out an apology here. I apologize for some of my statements above. I'm not going to edit them though as seeing them keeps me a bit more grounded as I can be reminded of my weakness to generalize.

I've had some nasty encounters with Christians who are hell bent on proving they are more holy than the people who go to church across the street as well as other facets of "competition". Seeing these people at chruch after church after church really led me to apply that to the majority of people.

Then I realized something. I live in Plano.

Duh. Religous or not, that behavior is the bread and butter of a Plano-ite.

Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
Chris- sorry to hear you have had bad experiences. The Christians you are referring to i hope either are aware of the way they act after the fact and have conviction for it, are still infants in their walk with Christ and are unaware of their incorrect actions, or are at a time in their life where they have fallen away from Christ and are unaware. Don't let anyone keep you from seeking out a close passionate relationship with Jesus Christ.

God Bless.

marcus

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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
I owe out an apology here. I apologize for some of my statements above. I'm not going to edit them though as seeing them keeps me a bit more grounded as I can be reminded of my weakness to generalize.

I've had some nasty encounters with Christians who are hell bent on proving they are more holy than the people who go to church across the street as well as other facets of "competition". Seeing these people at chruch after church after church really led me to apply that to the majority of people.

Then I realized something. I live in Plano.

Duh. Religous or not, that behavior is the bread and butter of a Plano-ite.

Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
Bro, it's on the South side also. Somethings are just a by-product of humanity. But like the old cliche' says "a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch"

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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
How did he fit all the types of animals on the boat?

How did he fit dinosaurs on the boat?

How did he gather them all to one location from all the continents?

There is not not enough water on the earth to cover the planet.

So where did it come from? Genesis says that the highest mountain was 20ft beneath the water?

Is there any geological evidence of a worldwide flood?

Was it even possible for a man to build such a large vesel in ancient times?
The answer to all these questions above is sponsered by the word 'Faith'
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post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
The answer to all these questions above is sponsered by the word 'Faith'


That's not how I would answer it.

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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2004, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The answer to all these questions above is sponsered by the word 'logic'

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