Does the Bible condone slavery? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2003, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
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Does the Bible condone slavery?

Some of you have been following the thread dealing with same-sex marriage. In it is a debate that started between myself in and another member on whether slavery is condoned by Holy Scripture.


Quote:
Originally posted by mrbean
The bible condones slavery. Should we go back to that too?

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18: "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)
What are your thoughts on this. I'll provide mine after further research.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2003, 08:00 AM
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Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?

Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
Some of you have been following the thread dealing with same-sex marriage. In it is a debate that started between myself in and another member on whether slavery is condoned by Holy Scripture.




What are your thoughts on this. I'll provide mine after further research.
I have not been following nor have I read any of the thread, but I will. With that said, through poverty the Israelites sometimes sold themselves or their children; magistrates sold some persons for their crimes, and creditors were in some cases allowed to sell their debtors who could not pay.

These passages by no means say that God condones slavery. All it says is that there are certain laws and rules concerning slaves. They have rights also. Nothing more, nothing less. To say these verses are saying that God thinks slavery is OK is pure idiocy.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2003, 03:42 PM
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Re: Re: Does the Bible condone slavery?

Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
I have not been following nor have I read any of the thread, but I will. With that said, through poverty the Israelites sometimes sold themselves or their children; magistrates sold some persons for their crimes, and creditors were in some cases allowed to sell their debtors who could not pay.

These passages by no means say that God condones slavery. All it says is that there are certain laws and rules concerning slaves. They have rights also. Nothing more, nothing less. To say these verses are saying that God thinks slavery is OK is pure idiocy.
The only slavery that I know of that God condones is slavery to sin
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2003, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
These passages by no means say that God condones slavery.
You're kidding, right?

Did you read the passages?
Quote:
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
you may buy slaves

you may = condone

you may buy slaves = condoning slavery

That's pretty cut and dry.

Personally, I think slavery was a terrible chapter in American history. That doesn't mean that slavery is not condoned in the Bible. Feel free to say that you don't condone slavery, but please don't tell me the Bible has the same stance.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-16-2003, 10:09 AM
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God knew that back in the day that people were going to have slaves whether He allowed it or not so instead He created laws concerning servanthood. He is saying in this passage that the Hebrews were not to have other Hebrews as servants, but those from others nations, if they were to have them at all. It is incorrect to say that the bible or God "condones slavery", in the modern connotation of that phrase.

God's perfect will would be that all men be free, but the He does not run the affairs of world governments. He has given man free reign to do what is right in his own eyes. God will someday rule on earth, but for now His role is to act as an advisor to mankind.

Also, if you would like to get technical, the word slave is only used one time in the Bible and it wasn't even in the original texts, it was added to make the passage clearer to read. The hebrew word used everywhere else is "ebed" which means servant. A servant is not necessarily a slave. A servant has rights, a slave does not.

The real reading of Lev 25:44 is "Servants and maidservants, who exist, are part of and among the heathen who are neighbors; of them you buy, servants and maidservants."

These servants had certain rights, amoung which was that they were to be free after 6 years. They were not hunted down like animals and taken against their will. They were bought and sold because of poverty, crimes, debt. This was a way for them to continue in society while taking care of they debts and or family.

Last edited by MoonDog; 08-17-2003 at 08:34 AM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-17-2003, 10:24 PM
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Question

Josh, do you believe everything you read in the bible? If not where do you drawl the line to what you choose to believe, and what you don't?

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-19-2003, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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I read and apply the Bible literally, yes. But that is not to say I take everything in wooden literal sense. For example if I suggested that it was raining cats and dogs outside, would you suppose that there are actually cats and dogs falling out of the sky?
I don't think that anyone can read and fully understand, in depth, the Bible just by picking it up. Yes, you can understand the basic tenants which are necessary for a relationship with God i.e. Creation, Immaculate Conception, Justification, Salvation, etc... However, to really understand the Bible you have to perfect the art and science of Biblical interpretation. You have to recognise several things to do this, the context in which the text is written, to whom the passage was written, the history involved, cultural issues, idiomatic differences, I could go on. People study the Bible for years just to understand it. The Bible is studied more than any other book in history. Consider any clergy member; my Pastor for instance has his undergrad in Theology, a Masters of Divinity, and a Phd. in Theology. That is 8 years of formal education, not to mention his daily and weekly study. All this education for one book. While he can answer most questions asked, he can't answer them all. There is just so much there.
So to address your question, I believe fully in the infallibility of the Bible. I believe it is the living breathing literal Word of God. There are gray areas in the Bible, however these are limited only by my own lack of knowledge, such as this issue.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2003, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
I read and apply the Bible literally, yes. But that is not to say I take everything in wooden literal sense. For example if I suggested that it was raining cats and dogs outside, would you suppose that there are actually cats and dogs falling out of the sky?
I don't think that anyone can read and fully understand, in depth, the Bible just by picking it up. Yes, you can understand the basic tenants which are necessary for a relationship with God i.e. Creation, Immaculate Conception, Justification, Salvation, etc... However, to really understand the Bible you have to perfect the art and science of Biblical interpretation. You have to recognise several things to do this, the context in which the text is written, to whom the passage was written, the history involved, cultural issues, idiomatic differences, I could go on. People study the Bible for years just to understand it. The Bible is studied more than any other book in history. Consider any clergy member; my Pastor for instance has his undergrad in Theology, a Masters of Divinity, and a Phd. in Theology. That is 8 years of formal education, not to mention his daily and weekly study. All this education for one book. While he can answer most questions asked, he can't answer them all. There is just so much there.
So to address your question, I believe fully in the infallibility of the Bible. I believe it is the living breathing literal Word of God. There are gray areas in the Bible, however these are limited only by my own lack of knowledge, such as this issue.
couldnt have said it better
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2003, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Josh
I read and apply the Bible literally, yes. But that is not to say I take everything in wooden literal sense. For example if I suggested that it was raining cats and dogs outside, would you suppose that there are actually cats and dogs falling out of the sky?
I don't think that anyone can read and fully understand, in depth, the Bible just by picking it up. Yes, you can understand the basic tenants which are necessary for a relationship with God i.e. Creation, Immaculate Conception, Justification, Salvation, etc... However, to really understand the Bible you have to perfect the art and science of Biblical interpretation. You have to recognise several things to do this, the context in which the text is written, to whom the passage was written, the history involved, cultural issues, idiomatic differences, I could go on. People study the Bible for years just to understand it. The Bible is studied more than any other book in history. Consider any clergy member; my Pastor for instance has his undergrad in Theology, a Masters of Divinity, and a Phd. in Theology. That is 8 years of formal education, not to mention his daily and weekly study. All this education for one book. While he can answer most questions asked, he can't answer them all. There is just so much there.
So to address your question, I believe fully in the infallibility of the Bible. I believe it is the living breathing literal Word of God. There are gray areas in the Bible, however these are limited only by my own lack of knowledge, such as this issue.
Don't forget about the Holy Spirit shedding light on the true meaning of scripture. Without the Spirit of God opening your eyes to the Word of God, you can have no true understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2003, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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