News this morning - DFWstangs Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
News this morning

Did you see the news this morning where they are discussing in Austin a convention about the controversy of having evolution in our school text books. Of coarse they had to let a ignorant evolutionist speak on the news saying letting intelligent design in our text books would be like putting UFOs in our text books. Ignorant idiot! But they did let a creationist have his comment saying (somewhat)"every theory has its flaws, but it seems evolution is the one theory that is tried to be put up on a peddle stool and its supporters always avoid its flaws or fail to admit it or question it" and of coarse they do b/c the only way evolution could happen would be an act God.

PS: I am not talking about adaptation. Im talking about monkey in to man, rocks into fish. That sort of crazy talk.
The Punisher is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 10:13 AM
Geaux Saints!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: "The Boot"
Posts: 6,161
Re: News this morning

Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Did you see the news this morning where they are discussing in Austin a convention about the controversy of having evolution in our school text books. Of coarse they had to let a ignorant evolutionist speak on the news saying letting intelligent design in our text books would be like putting UFOs in our text books. Ignorant idiot! But they did let a creationist have his comment saying (somewhat)"every theory has its flaws, but it seems evolution is the one theory that is tried to be put up on a peddle stool and its supporters always avoid its flaws or fail to admit it or question it" and of coarse they do b/c the only way evolution could happen would be an act God.

PS: I am not talking about adaptation. Im talking about monkey in to man, rocks into fish. That sort of crazy talk.
Do you have a link to the story?
Kris is offline  
post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
here is part of the article
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,57893,00.html

But I saw it on TV
The Punisher is offline  
 
post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 10:55 AM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
There is no theory to explain the creation of life. However, there is data that supports the concept of evolution. We see it all the time. Millions of years ago, as the continents were breaking up, there were animals that were stranded on their individual continents. Of course, they were unable to breed together at that point. We see their descendants today, and they are species that are nothing alike, and unable to breed together. However, they still share the same common ancestor. That's evolution.

Strains of drug-resistant bacteria also provide evidence for evolution. The only bacteria that get to breed are the ones not killed by the drug. This has been shown over and over again. That's evolution.

Fish didn't come from rocks. Fish came from proto-fish. haha

Evolution is a concept that is not going away, because it is true and based in fact. However, I feel they should be providing multiple viewpoints for the creation of life, since it is an unavoidable question, and one which no one knows (nor will EVER know) the answer for certain.
46Tbird is offline  
post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird


Evolution is a concept that is not going away, because it is true and based in fact.
Danny, now dont make me make you eat your own words. Evolution is not based on facts but assumptions.
The Punisher is offline  
post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 01:26 PM
Geaux Saints!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: "The Boot"
Posts: 6,161
This might be a good discussion. Oh, by the way, thanks for the link, made for some interesting reading during lunch.
Kris is offline  
post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
well, evolution is based on assumptions and most of it is not even scientific, but a belief system.

Danny, I think you may have meant micro-evolution or adaptation, which yes there is evidence for it. But evolution there is none that can be proven, just assumed.
The Punisher is offline  
post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 05:05 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Danny, now dont make me make you eat your own words. Evolution is not based on facts but assumptions.


Okay, I ASSUME that fish in the ocean were born when a female fish's eggs were fertilized by a male fish's sperm. But I guess that's not a FACT since I wasn't there to witness it, and no other human was there to witness it, and God didn't jot down exactly how it happened for us all to read. Is that what you mean when discerning fact from assumption?

Evolution DOES happen. There are genetic markers that can be traced if there is DNA/RNA that can be analyzed. Every known species shares a direct ancestor that may or may not coexist with their modern descendants. There is fossil and genetic evidence for this.

Let's make it religious. Are you disputing the fact that bones and other biological material that can be found in ice and sedimentary rock can be older than anything mentioned in the Bible? Because I think that earth rocks really CAN be 4.6 billion years old, and that today's complex organisms are descendants of earlier extinct simple organisms.

That doesn't take away the fact that God made us, it means that the Old Testament was written by men that didn't have scientific explanations for what they saw. To this day we don't have explanations for everything we see. But the fact that we don't know everything doesn't also mean we don't know anything.
46Tbird is offline  
post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird


Okay, I ASSUME that fish in the ocean were born when a female fish's eggs were fertilized by a male fish's sperm. But I guess that's not a FACT since I wasn't there to witness it, and no other human was there to witness it, and God didn't jot down exactly how it happened for us all to read. Is that what you mean when discerning fact from assumption?

Evolution DOES happen. There are genetic markers that can be traced if there is DNA/RNA that can be analyzed. Every known species shares a direct ancestor that may or may not coexist with their modern descendants. There is fossil and genetic evidence for this.

Let's make it religious. Are you disputing the fact that bones and other biological material that can be found in ice and sedimentary rock can be older than anything mentioned in the Bible? Because I think that earth rocks really CAN be 4.6 billion years old, and that today's complex organisms are descendants of earlier extinct simple organisms.

That doesn't take away the fact that God made us, it means that the Old Testament was written by men that didn't have scientific explanations for what they saw. To this day we don't have explanations for everything we see. But the fact that we don't know everything doesn't also mean we don't know anything.
For evolution to take place, there would have to be an addition to add to your DNA, prove to me where they have proof where that has taken place? No where because it hasnt.... And that is where evolution is just a assumption...
The Punisher is offline  
post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-10-2003, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird


Okay, I ASSUME that fish in the ocean were born when a female fish's eggs were fertilized by a male fish's sperm.
BTW, that has nothing to do with evolution..

Last edited by 281R; 07-10-2003 at 08:05 PM.
The Punisher is offline  
post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-11-2003, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
I suggest reading these two books on the matter, both giving very good evidence and truth to the lies we have be taught about evolution.

1.
The Punisher is offline  
post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-11-2003, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
2
The Punisher is offline  
post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 07:06 PM
98 SVT Cobra
 
MoonDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,109
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
There is no theory to explain the creation of life. However, there is data that supports the concept of evolution. We see it all the time. Millions of years ago, as the continents were breaking up, there were animals that were stranded on their individual continents. Of course, they were unable to breed together at that point. We see their descendants today, and they are species that are nothing alike, and unable to breed together. However, they still share the same common ancestor. That's evolution.

Strains of drug-resistant bacteria also provide evidence for evolution. The only bacteria that get to breed are the ones not killed by the drug. This has been shown over and over again. That's evolution.

Fish didn't come from rocks. Fish came from proto-fish. haha

Evolution is a concept that is not going away, because it is true and based in fact. However, I feel they should be providing multiple viewpoints for the creation of life, since it is an unavoidable question, and one which no one knows (nor will EVER know) the answer for certain.
Danny, you say all of this like it is fact. It isn't, evolution, just like creation, is a theory. It is all based on someones beliefs, thoughts or study. No one was around during the time the worlds were formed and the plants and animals came to be, so we can only speculate what happened. Some of us choose to believe what the bible says about creation and others choose to believe what science says about evolution.

There is a reason it is called the Theory of Evolution and not the Fact of Evolution.
MoonDog is offline  
post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
Some of us choose to believe what the bible says about creation and others choose to believe what science says about evolution.

. [/B]
well, I wouldnt even go so far and say that science credits evolution. In all reality, it discredits evolution.

Yes, moondog is right. Science has only to do with the facts and facts alone. Now you can interperate the evidence however you want. For instance if a few people had never seen or knew what an automobile was and all of them tested it and came up with a theory of orgin. Some might say this had to be created, there is no other way it could come about. Then others might say well it formed itself slowly over time and the heat and sand formed the glass and the metal was bent by a big flood and etc, etc. (which is just about how evolution tries to describe human orgin).
The Punisher is offline  
post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-23-2003, 12:54 PM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
The Evolution Theory is just a way of thinking and assuming for those who refuse to believe in an intelligent creator.

You would just have to look no further than your normal DNA strand. For life to have evolved spontaneously from chemicals and non-living organisms and energy and then go ahead and evolve into the more than 6,000,000,000 plants and animals on this planet is rediculous.........absolutely ridiculous

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-23-2003, 09:19 PM
You lookin' at mah EYE?!
 
DarkWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,316
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
The Evolution Theory is just a way of thinking and assuming for those who refuse to believe in an intelligent creator.

You would just have to look no further than your normal DNA strand. For life to have evolved spontaneously from chemicals and non-living organisms and energy and then go ahead and evolve into the more than 6,000,000,000 plants and animals on this planet is rediculous.........absolutely ridiculous
Except that's exactly what DNA is ... a bunch of chemicals, protiens ... things that, in and of themselves, are non-living. (To say "non-living organisms" is kind of an oxymoron, as organism implies life )

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just throwing that out there for a little more fuel on the fire Besides, we already know my stance.

DarkWolf
Graphic Design / Photography / Web Design
DarkWolf is offline  
post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-23-2003, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Except that's exactly what DNA is ... a bunch of chemicals, protiens ... things that, in and of themselves, are non-living. (To say "non-living organisms" is kind of an oxymoron, as organism implies life )

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just throwing that out there for a little more fuel on the fire Besides, we already know my stance.
I dont deny we came out of the dust of the earth, but just as a computer is built, it didnt evolve... It was designed and created. But only God's infanite wisdom could put a human or any animal together.
The Punisher is offline  
post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-23-2003, 10:14 PM
None
 
Jedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Anti-Newbie
Posts: 12,675
Religon (creation or evolution) shouldn't be taught in school, it should be taught at home.

Period.

Teach the kids to read and write and let them make up their own minds.
Jedi is offline  
post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 02:07 AM
You lookin' at mah EYE?!
 
DarkWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,316
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
Religon (creation or evolution) shouldn't be taught in school, it should be taught at home.

Period.

Teach the kids to read and write and let them make up their own minds.
Amen!

DarkWolf
Graphic Design / Photography / Web Design
DarkWolf is offline  
post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 05:49 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Quote:
Originally posted by DarkWolf
Except that's exactly what DNA is ... a bunch of chemicals, protiens ... things that, in and of themselves, are non-living. (To say "non-living organisms" is kind of an oxymoron, as organism implies life )

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just throwing that out there for a little more fuel on the fire Besides, we already know my stance.
I know what I'm saying. So think about it DW. It's ludicrous to think that proteins and chemicals could come together by undirected means and be responsible for every past and present plant and animal species on this planet. DNA/RNA is organized. All attempts to prove that life started on this planet by any natural means have failed.

Evolutionist Paul Erbrich:
"The probability, however, of the convergent evolution of two proteins with approximately the same structure and function is too low to be plausible, even when all possible circumstances are present which seem to heighten the likelihood of such convergence. If this is so, then the plausibility of a random evolution of two or more different but functionally related proteins seems hardly greater."


Sir Fred Hoyle is a well-known British mathematician, astronomer, and cosmologist. Hoyle is, also, the co-author of the book, Evolution from Space, which states:
"Once we see, however, that the probability of life originating at random is so utterly minuscule as to make it absurd, it becomes sensible to think that the favourable properties of physics on which life depends are in every respect deliberate.…It is therefore almost inevitable that our own measure of intelligence must reflect… higher intelligences… even to the limit of God. …such a theory is so obvious that one wonders why it is not widely accepted as being self-evident. The reasons are psychological rather than scientific."


Theres a 10 to the 67 to 1 chance of proteins forming to become the necessary proteins needed for a DNA strand even under the optimal circumstances. 10 to the 67th = 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #21 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 08:22 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a house
Posts: 255
In other words there is a better chance of a tornado ripping through a junk yard a fully assembling a 747 jet.

Larius is offline  
post #22 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by Larius
In other words there is a better chance of a tornado ripping through a junk yard a fully assembling a 747 jet.
exactly! lol
The Punisher is offline  
post #23 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 02:15 PM
You lookin' at mah EYE?!
 
DarkWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,316
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
I know what I'm saying. So think about it DW. It's ludicrous to think that proteins and chemicals could come together by undirected means and be responsible for every past and present plant and animal species on this planet. DNA/RNA is organized. All attempts to prove that life started on this planet by any natural means have failed.
Ahhh, gotcha. I just read your first one wrong then

BTW, welcome back

DarkWolf
Graphic Design / Photography / Web Design
DarkWolf is offline  
post #24 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-24-2003, 09:23 PM
98 SVT Cobra
 
MoonDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi
Religon (creation or evolution) shouldn't be taught in school, it should be taught at home.

Period.

Teach the kids to read and write and let them make up their own minds.
To a point I agree with you Chris. The only problem is that evolution is not going to be taken out of the schools anytime soon so creation must be taught right along with it. If the state/school doesn't teach both then that they are saying that they have an agenda and dont want the kids to make up their own minds.
MoonDog is offline  
post #25 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-25-2003, 05:38 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Quote:
Originally posted by MoonDog
To a point I agree with you Chris. The only problem is that evolution is not going to be taken out of the schools anytime soon so creation must be taught right along with it. If the state/school doesn't teach both then that they are saying that they have an agenda and dont want the kids to make up their own minds.
Yup.

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #26 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 07:37 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
i know im coming into this wayyy late, but how has evolution been disproven?
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #27 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 08:07 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
i know im coming into this wayyy late, but how has evolution been disproven?
Evolution is a theory, therefore it hasn't neither been proven or disproven. But the facts show that it is highly improbable.

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #28 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 08:26 AM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
No, you're wrong. Evolution HAPPENS.

What you're saying (as I read your posts above), is that CREATION doesn't just happen. And that I agree with.

Why do you lump them together? They're not the same thing.......... not even close.
46Tbird is offline  
post #29 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
No, you're wrong. Evolution HAPPENS.

What you're saying (as I read your posts above), is that CREATION doesn't just happen. And that I agree with.

Why do you lump them together? They're not the same thing.......... not even close.
show me where it happens? If it happens it would be fact, but there is no proof that it happens and that is why it remains an atheistic excuse to not believe in God.
The Punisher is offline  
post #30 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 08:47 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Evolution is a Theory, Danny. Nothing more.
Monsoon X is offline  
post #31 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 09:23 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
Evolution is a Theory, Danny. Nothing more.

as is creation. There is, however, a lot more evidence leaning toawrds evolution vs. creation.
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #32 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
as is creation. There is, however, a lot more evidence leaning toawrds evolution vs. creation.
how can evidence (facts) lean? they can not speak for themselves. This is one of the biggest problems with evolutionist. The loudest voice is not always the right answer and the other problem is confuseing assumptions w/ fact. Please show me the evidence you have that leans twords evolution b/c I disagree! Evidence interpreted on the creation side makes much more since and when you have faith it all comes together. But please show me the leaning evidence you have..
The Punisher is offline  
post #33 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 09:52 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
how can evidence (facts) lean? they can not speak for themselves. This is one of the biggest problems with evolutionist. The loudest voice is not always the right answer and the other problem is confuseing assumptions w/ fact. Please show me the evidence you have that leans twords evolution b/c I disagree! Evidence interpreted on the creation side makes much more since and when you have faith it all comes together. But please show me the leaning evidence you have..
Genetics, the fact that we share very similar DNA strands with other mammals, a chain that shows the evolutionary process from monkey to man.. etc

just because you have faith and it all comes together doesn't mean jack to me, it's called blind faith..

now, i didn't come in here to start a war, and the flaring tempers will be kept out of this as far as i am concerned. i just came to speak my side, as are you all. i enjoy this kind of convo, it actually intrigues the mind, as opposed to most of the other junk on this site
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #34 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:09 AM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
show me where it happens? If it happens it would be fact, but there is no proof that it happens and that is why it remains an atheistic excuse to not believe in God.
I don't doubt that atheists use Evolution to "disprove" the existence of God. What I'm wondering is how you explain people that believe in the existence of God, yet also believe in using logic to put together the "Puzzle of Life". We don't know all the answers; hell, we haven't even built the border yet. However, there is strong evidence (that doesn't LEAN any one way) that indicates that over time, species change, and speciation occurs. This is Evolution, and it happens right before our eyes. Take a look at this for "proof".

JC, I love how you use the scientific term "theory" to mean it's something that has little or no factual justification. That is by no means the case; scientific "theories" remain that until there is enough evidence to deem them scientific "laws". A Theory is pretty high up on the chain in the Scientific Method. Please read this for a clarification of terms.
46Tbird is offline  
post #35 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:21 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
Genetics, the fact that we share very similar DNA strands with other mammals, a chain that shows the evolutionary process from monkey to man.. etc

just because you have faith and it all comes together doesn't mean jack to me, it's called blind faith..

now, i didn't come in here to start a war, and the flaring tempers will be kept out of this as far as i am concerned. i just came to speak my side, as are you all. i enjoy this kind of convo, it actually intrigues the mind, as opposed to most of the other junk on this site
C'mon man. We all live on this planet. Second, all life is pretty much made up of the same things. We all somehow are linked by the food chain it would be crazy if we all weren't similar in certain aspects. That just helps with survival on this planet and the use of it's resources. We would expect for a cow and a monkey to have similar DNA to have common similarities also as opposed to Bacterium and a Cow. Monkeys and Humans have similar qualities with each other so it's natural for them to have similar DNA.

One thing that you need to realize about the Monkey/Human comparison is that Monkey DNA hasn't fully been sequenced so the data you hear about isn't a full comparison. Do your homework gentlemen.

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #36 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:33 AM
Crash Test Dummy
 
Monsoon X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: never never land
Posts: 21,966
Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird

JC, I love how you use the scientific term "theory" to mean it's something that has little or no factual justification. That is by no means the case; scientific "theories" remain that until there is enough evidence to deem them scientific "laws". A Theory is pretty high up on the chain in the Scientific Method. Please read this for a clarification of terms.
What you don't realize is the reason why it's high up there. They have nothing else to believe. That's why it's a "tweakable" science.

The meat of the matter is this:

It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.

Now I ask you this. Has the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics been circumvented? How is it that Evolutionists claim that organisms are becoming more ordered and complicated? Heck man, the universe is falling apart, the sun is getting old, stars colapse but here on Earth, we are getting better? C'mon Danny. Open your heart and see the truth.

______________________________
I'm just a poor negro
Monsoon X is offline  
post #37 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:33 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
C'mon man. We all live on this planet. Second, all life is pretty much made up of the same things. We all somehow are linked by the food chain it would be crazy if we all weren't similar in certain aspects. That just helps with survival on this planet and the use of it's resources. We would expect for a cow and a monkey to have similar DNA to have common similarities also as opposed to Bacterium and a Cow. Monkeys and Humans have similar qualities with each other so it's natural for them to have similar DNA.

One thing that you need to realize about the Monkey/Human comparison is that Monkey DNA hasn't fully been sequenced so the data you hear about isn't a full comparison. Do your homework gentlemen.

so since we live on the same planet, and are made of essentially the same things, why COULDN'T evolution be a plausible theory? There is PROOF of a life form millions of years old, that they have found in rocks, ice, etc. These life forms are pre-human, and give us the proof that there was life on earth far before man..

so let me get this straight, god created an earth, and single celled organisms, then waited 16 billion years to create humans? seems a little far fetched to me!
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #38 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
C'mon man. We all live on this planet. Second, all life is pretty much made up of the same things. We all somehow are linked by the food chain it would be crazy if we all weren't similar in certain aspects. That just helps with survival on this planet and the use of it's resources. We would expect for a cow and a monkey to have similar DNA to have common similarities also as opposed to Bacterium and a Cow. Monkeys and Humans have similar qualities with each other so it's natural for them to have similar DNA.

One thing that you need to realize about the Monkey/Human comparison is that Monkey DNA hasn't fully been sequenced so the data you hear about isn't a full comparison. Do your homework gentlemen.
yes, all the evolutionist talk about well there is a similar pattern in DNA in all the different creatures on earth, but ever think that maybe it was b/c we all had a common creator? This is the difference. Evolutionist will say the similarities are proof for evolution. Creationist will say we all came from the same creator. Who is right? You decide.. But evidence dosent speak for it's self. And the odds are against evolution..

BTW, evolution is a blind faith also It is just more easily accepted to sinfull man

Last edited by 281R; 07-28-2003 at 10:36 AM.
The Punisher is offline  
post #39 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:39 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
yes, all the evolutionist talk about well there is a similar pattern in DNA in all the different creatures on earth, but ever think that maybe it was b/c we all had a common creator? This is the difference. Evolutionist will say the similarities are proof for evolution. Creationist will say we all came from the same creator. Who is right? You decide.. But evidence dosent speak for it's self. And the odds are against evolution..

BTW, evolution is a blind faith also It is just more easily accepted to sinfull man
how are the odds against evolution? 1 point towards evolution would blow creationism out of the sky, where is YOUR proof?
and i would like someone to address my question above, why would "the creator" create an earth and sky, planet full of plants, and only single celled organisms, then wait billions of years to create man?
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #40 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
so since we live on the same planet, and are made of essentially the same things, why COULDN'T evolution be a plausible theory? There is PROOF of a life form millions of years old, that they have found in rocks, ice, etc. These life forms are pre-human, and give us the proof that there was life on earth far before man..

so let me get this straight, god created an earth, and single celled organisms, then waited 16 billion years to create humans? seems a little far fetched to me!
were you here millions of years ago to know life existed on earth or there was an earth?
The Punisher is offline  
post #41 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:41 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
were you here millions of years ago to know life existed on earth or there was an earth?
carbon dating my good friend..
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #42 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
I know what I'm saying. So think about it DW. It's ludicrous to think that proteins and chemicals could come together by undirected means and be responsible for every past and present plant and animal species on this planet. DNA/RNA is organized. All attempts to prove that life started on this planet by any natural means have failed.

Evolutionist Paul Erbrich:
"The probability, however, of the convergent evolution of two proteins with approximately the same structure and function is too low to be plausible, even when all possible circumstances are present which seem to heighten the likelihood of such convergence. If this is so, then the plausibility of a random evolution of two or more different but functionally related proteins seems hardly greater."


Sir Fred Hoyle is a well-known British mathematician, astronomer, and cosmologist. Hoyle is, also, the co-author of the book, Evolution from Space, which states:
"Once we see, however, that the probability of life originating at random is so utterly minuscule as to make it absurd, it becomes sensible to think that the favourable properties of physics on which life depends are in every respect deliberate.…It is therefore almost inevitable that our own measure of intelligence must reflect… higher intelligences… even to the limit of God. …such a theory is so obvious that one wonders why it is not widely accepted as being self-evident. The reasons are psychological rather than scientific."


Theres a 10 to the 67 to 1 chance of proteins forming to become the necessary proteins needed for a DNA strand even under the optimal circumstances. 10 to the 67th = 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
back at cha, dont feel like typing it again.
Creation= 1 Evolution=-2 for a foul
The Punisher is offline  
post #43 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
carbon dating my good friend..
which is assumed acurate, but cannot be proven acurate
Do I really need to back through again about carbon dating flaws?

Last edited by 281R; 07-28-2003 at 10:45 AM.
The Punisher is offline  
post #44 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:45 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
back at cha, dont feel like typing it again.
Creation= 1 Evolution=-2 for a foul
just because a 10^67 probability is what it would take, who says that it CAN'T happen? whats the probability of a man being struck twice by lightning in the same life? i know of a man whom it has happened to, so why couldn't this be so? especially in billions of years, the conditions would have had to be right at some point.
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #45 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:47 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
which is assumed acurate, but cannot be proven acurate
Do I really need to back through again about carbon dating flaws?
actually, i would like to know what kind of flaws are found in carbon dating. edjumacate me
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #46 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
just because a 10^67 probability is what it would take, who says that it CAN'T happen? whats the probability of a man being struck twice by lightning in the same life? i know of a man whom it has happened to, so why couldn't this be so? especially in billions of years, the conditions would have had to be right at some point.
what is the probability that you were created? Probably preatty good b/c it would take a very ignorant, stupid or closed anti-God person to believe that everyones life, body, heart, eyes, ears, nose, mouth, liver, kidney, sexual organs, hands, feet evolved out of a big bang and perfected itself on its own over millions of years.

I am sure the rats in my office are debating that my computer (that they dont know where it came from) evolved over millions of years and wasnt created.
The Punisher is offline  
post #47 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:58 AM
Moved to dfw mustangs.net
 
lowthreeohz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hurst-Useless-Bedford area
Posts: 20,572
Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
what is the probability that you were created? Probably preatty good b/c it would take a very ignorant, stupid or closed anti-God person to believe that everyones life, body, heart, eyes, ears, nose, mouth, liver, kidney, sexual organs, hands, feet evolved out of a big bang and perfected itself on its own over millions of years.

I am sure the rats in my office are debating that my computer (that they dont know where it came from) evolved over millions of years and wasnt created.

are you resorting to calling me a very ignorant, stupid, and closed minded person? if so, you need to step the hell back and realize what this conversation is about. Why is it so hard to beleive that things *DID* perfect themselves over time? Again, i'm asking for your PROOF that evolution is bunk. untill you can refute what i have said, and proven it to me that i am wrong.


and you have rats in your office? maybe you should talk to the person in charge of facilities.


now, i have a class to attend, i gotta work on that ignorance/stupidity thing.. talk to you guys in a while
lowthreeohz is offline  
post #48 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
actually, i would like to know what kind of flaws are found in carbon dating. edjumacate me
here is one article off the top of my head, got some more at home

linik
The Punisher is offline  
post #49 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 11:09 AM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.
Again, I am not talking about Creation - I am talking about Evolution. It is not presumptuous to say that all living things evolved into their current state, because there is a wide range of evidence for it. Now, if someone wants to try to formulate a Hypothesis on the Creation of Life, they can do that. It is part of the process that makes scientific knowledge "grow". However, all of the Creation theories (that I know of) have been shot down by the scientific community for lack of evidence. You have to make a strong case to a very intelligent group of people to have such ideas accepted.
Quote:
Now I ask you this. Has the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics been circumvented? How is it that Evolutionists claim that organisms are becoming more ordered and complicated? Heck man, the universe is falling apart, the sun is getting old, stars colapse but here on Earth, we are getting better? C'mon Danny. Open your heart and see the truth.
Bustin out the 2nd Law, huh? Old trick, and this is something I found.. written by people that have a firm grasp of the 2nd Law. In this case, "Haynie" is an expert in such matters, and he is commenting on a well known report by Creationists that the 2nd Law strictly prohibits evolution. These first 3 quotes are taken directly from the report, and the rest is his commentary.
Quote:
Haynie: There are three contentious statements here, it seems to me:

(1) "The fact is: the second law of thermodynamics strictly prohibits organic evolution, Mr. Rennie’s disclaimers notwithstanding,"

(2)"Evolutionists have attempted to downplay the problems in regard to thermodynamics and evolutionary theory. But the problems do exist, and are serious," and

(3)"Thermodynamically speaking, all isolated systems (and the Universe is accepted as an isolated system) proceed toward a state of equilibrium."

Let me speak to the last point first. It is by no means certain that the universe is an isolated system. For as far as I am aware, no one really knows what the universe is, much less whether it is an isolated system (in the sense that these terms are ordinarily defined). However, I believe Bert Thompson and Brad Harrub are correct in saying that the universe, whatever it might be, is (often) accepted as an isolated system, so that it can be treated in a specific way using standard mathematical tools.

The first point is problematic for reasons discussed above. Assuming that the Second law of thermodynamics really does describe, more or less correctly, the nature of the universe that actually exists, which is what I think, it seems to me a non sequitur to say that the Second law "prohibits organic evolution." That is, in my opinion the scientific arguments adduced by Bert Thompson and Brad Harrub are for the most part factually correct, but their conclusion is not entailed by those arguments. Theirs is a very common error in reasoning; the peer-reviewed scientific literature, by the way, is full of additional examples illustrating it.

As to the second point it may well be true, but I cannot say for sure. For how many "evolutionists" have a good grasp of the Second law? Many do not, I suspect, and some of these might therefore be inclined to avoid the subject in a debate or to parrot the view of an assumed scientific authority. Do "problems" exist, however, with regard to the science? None that I am aware of, at least with regard to points of a fundamental nature. It would appear that Bert Thompson and Brad Harrub do not have a good awareness of what their "opponents" actually think about the Second law.
http://www.ntanet.net/Thermo-Internet.htm

JC, there are a lot of things that we don't understand fully. The universe, creation, I could go on for hours about what we DON'T know for certain. But Evolution is something that happens, even if we don't exactly know how the process got started.

It's sort of like saying, "I built my Trans Am up to run 6.99 @ 100" and another person saying, "Bullshit, it's impossible to do that to a Trans Am because you don't understand how to build a car from metal, plastic, and glass!" Get it? The two ideas are totally seperate.
46Tbird is offline  
post #50 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
Boost is Good
 
The Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally posted by lowthreeohz
are you resorting to calling me a very ignorant, stupid, and closed minded person? if so, you need to step the hell back and realize what this conversation is about. Why is it so hard to beleive that things *DID* perfect themselves over time? Again, i'm asking for your PROOF that evolution is bunk. untill you can refute what i have said, and proven it to me that i am wrong.


and you have rats in your office? maybe you should talk to the person in charge of facilities.


now, i have a class to attend, i gotta work on that ignorance/stupidity thing.. talk to you guys in a while
well I was hopeing that you were not on the stupid or close minded side of it, but ignorant, I dont want to lie, but yes. Not that ignorant is an insult (of what I mean), but your decisions are based off of realative truth and not absolute truth. When you open your eyes to Christ you will see things in a different perspective. Yes we have a lot of facts and assumptions, but your mindset and how you think is how you interpret. You think in sin, you interpret in sin. But once you see the truth, and the more you search for the truth, you will interpret life and your decisions in a different way.
The Punisher is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome