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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-12-2003, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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I want to gain strength, help me out.

I want to gain strength this summer. I don't care about getting cut or anything, just want to get strong. Like on bench and squat.

What would be the best sets and reps for me to do?

Should I do the same reps and sets on the suplamentary lifts as well or what?

Thanks
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-12-2003, 02:54 PM
 
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-12-2003, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Also, how should I vary up the sets, reps, and weight?
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-12-2003, 04:03 PM
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It really depends on your body. I personally like to vary weight/reps, where others swear by staying heavy all the time.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 06:16 AM
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I got strong by lifting heavy all the time. Use only core movement.

Chest: Incline Press or Flat Bench Press alternate with dumbells every other workout but stay really heavy. Don't sacrifice form though.

Back: Bent over rows/Wide grip pullups (alternate days for deadlifts)

Shoulders: Barbell presses. Behind the neck. Start very light until you get the form down and don't go past the arms being parrallel with the floor when you lower it on the reps. And shrugs for the traps

Legs: Squats or Presses

Arms: Barbell curls (biceps), Close grip Bench press (Triceps) and seated dips for the tris again.

DO NOT COMPROMISE YOUR FORM!!!!!

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
DO NOT COMPROMISE YOUR FORM!!!!!
Best advice ever.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 10:53 AM
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i love doing "Mass movements".. everyone likes differnt ones.. but the cores are all the same;
EVERY chest work out i do flat bench.. 5-6 sets ( including 2 warm up sets).. and then add " other movements" ie incline or dumbell press..

shoulders... Seated dumbell press.. GREAT mass movement. and it helps you have more controll then barbell, but i used to LOVE doing the barbell behind the neck.. STanding military in front is good too.


back.. Bent over rows is good.. so are dumnbell rows.. my " mass movement" is one arm rows with the hammer strength machine as i can do BIG WEIGHT movments and not put strain on my lower back.
legs....SQUATS!!! if you cant squat for some reason.. legpress..

triceps.. Skull crushers and close grip bench.

biceps.. 2 arm or alternate curls.

calfs.. DONKEYS!!

i know im forgetting something..

form is VERY important.. so are negatives.. the only time i cheat is if i have done my set CLEAN.. and maybe i will cheat up a curl so that i can get a GOOD clean negative.. but DONT cheat unless you can do it clean... once you can do all your sets perfectly.. then you have earnet the right to get a little "down and dirty"
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning


shoulders... Seated dumbell press.. GREAT mass movement. and it helps you have more controll then barbell, but i used to LOVE doing the barbell behind the neck.. STanding military in front is good too.



i know im forgetting something..
I loved behind the neck barbell presses too! I bet you could do alot! I could only do 150lbs

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon X
I loved behind the neck barbell presses too! I bet you could do alot! I could only do 150lbs
right now i cant do shit.. i WAS repping 3 plates.. that was many moons ago..
at my peak i was doing sets of 8-12 on STANDING in front military press im such a pussy now
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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What kind of sets and reps should I be doing?

4x6

5x5

With as much weight as I can do properly?

After warm ups, naturally.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2003, 11:10 AM
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it depends on the person.. i like the " go heavy.. for higher reps"..
now.. im not talking 15-20 reps.. but i feel even on a mass movement you want to hit 6-12 reps for a least a few sets... then go to for your 6-8 rep sets. and then a few low reps to failure..
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 12:24 AM
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"i WAS repping 3 plates.. "

Do you mean 135 lbs? or 315lbs? Usually when someone says 3 plates it is on the bench, and it is 315lbs.

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01-0800
"i WAS repping 3 plates.. "

Do you mean 135 lbs? or 315lbs? Usually when someone says 3 plates it is on the bench, and it is 315lbs.

Scott.
I know exactly what 3 plates means
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning
I know exactly what 3 plates means
White_lightning uses three 5 lb plates on each side. Don't let him fool you.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning
I know exactly what 3 plates means

Your first trip through the buffet?



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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 10:06 AM
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Just remember that you don't really need to gain size to gain strength, size and strength are two different things.

A good strength building workout for someone who hasn't lifted in a while and just wants to get back to doing heavy weights is one that slowly increases the weight and reps, with each workout slowly getting heavier or adding more reps...

Try this:

Pick an arbitrary weight for Squat that you are comfortable doing 10 reps with, let's say 185 lbs. Make sure your squat form is correct, feet at about shoulder width or slightly wider, toes at about a 30 degree outward angle, keep your head up at all times, keep your back straight, go nice and deep so your thighs are parallel with the floor at the bottom.

Do 185 lbs. for 10 reps
195 lbs. 8 reps
205X6 reps
215X4 reps

Next week add one rep to each set.

Week after add another rep (185 for 12 reps)

The next week add ten lbs. to each set and start the rep count over. Its ok if you can only do 8 or 9 reps on the workout where you add weight for the first time, if that is the case just start with 8 or 9 and add from there.

You will get strength fairly quick, adding 10 lbs. back to your squat each month or so. You aren't really gaining much mass either, just training the muscle you have to handle the weight...

Last edited by AL P; 05-15-2003 at 10:09 AM.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 10:09 AM
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more weight, less reps. i say start out with your body weight on bench (if you can) and do 5 sets of 6 - 8 reps. on squat, do at least 225lbs, 5 sets, 6 - 8 reps
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning
triceps.. Skull crushers and close grip bench.
Ok, I've never been able to feel a good burn from close grip bench, someone run it down for me, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I love the hell out of skull crushers, but don't even bother with close grip because I just can't feel it.
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 11:59 AM
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Ok, I've never been able to feel a good burn from close grip bench, someone run it down for me, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I love the hell out of skull crushers, but don't even bother with close grip because I just can't feel it.
Close grip... lets see. Grab the bar so that when you bring the bar down your hands are just on the outside of your rib cage..
DONT push it like benchpress with elbows down, keep your elbows IN and close to your body. bring the bar down to the base of your pecs..
i Use Close grip for my warm up.. right now im doing 135x12 and then 2 sets of 225.. once i get some strengh back i should be able to work back to 8-10 reps of 315.. i dont use it for a builder personaly.. more of a Good warmup.


and Got boost at leat my 3 plates have LESS calories then your 120339801293 beers!!!
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 12:06 PM
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here you go! GOOD link.

how to do close grip bench press
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 12:25 AM
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I say stay away from bench because it can be taxing on your rotator cuffs....You have to be consistent but inconsistent with your weight...Consistent with your program...but change your weight...You must keep your body guessing so that it won't become complacent and weak... I personally believe that incline bench and free weight flys on the incline bench for your upper body....Light free weight squats/lunges using perfect form and some kickboxing/karate for the lower will get you the strength you need plus keep you from breaking bones...What people don't realize is that your bones, tendons, and your ligaments have to be fit before your muscles...Thats why a lot of pro athletes are always injured at least to me...Make sure you're breathing during your exercise...Oxygen is the key to success and quicker results...Everyone else has different solutions but we're all similar in being....CONSISTENT with your workouts and adequate rest...

What has worked for me in the past:

I would just work out one body part each day....

If I was working out my bi's then for 45-60 minutes, I would do bi-cep excercises only...3minute rest between sets

I would start out heavy as possible but work down on weight towards the end of my workout making sure I would get full range of movement throughout each rep...

I would not do that body part for a week....Upper body one day and Lower body the next... Ex. Biceps on Monday, Quads on Tuesday...ect.

I would work out about 5 days a week but for short periods which worked very well for strength...1 hour a day tops...That body part would swell so big that sometimes I couldn't walk or lift my arms...

Being very intense is also the key...You have to force yourself to believe that you can endure it. You have to workout like your pissed off mad.....Somebody pissed on your Mustang!

Let me know if that works for anybody....send me a pm...Later

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 01:11 AM
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no offence.. but.. if you want Size and Strength in the chest.. Nothing builds it like Flat barbell bench.. I personaly find incline and flys put more stress on my rotor cuff then flat bench.. bottom line.. if you want big strength gains.. flat bench is where its at when it comes to chest.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 01:14 AM
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Well if you want your muscles to be more defined and bigger then you do incline...If you're going to do flat bench then arch your back on the pad...that will give you faster results...It doesn't matter just trick it up....later

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaolin
Well if you want your muscles to be more defined and bigger then you do incline...If you're going to do flat bench then arch your back on the pad...that will give you faster results...It doesn't matter just trick it up....later
umm no...
incline is more of an ' upper chest" movement.. if you even believe its possible to isolate sections of your chest.( some people dont).. If Isolation IS possible.. INclined would do Nothing for your lower chest, minimal for Pectoralis major.. and alot for your upper pectoralis minor...
you cant get " definition" by focusing on incline.. definition comes with Low body fat.. you can so nothing but HUGE mass movements and diet to hell and be defined and shredded.

The topic was strength.. nothing hits chest and builds bulk and strength like Flat bench..

as for arching your back on the pad.. Arching it as in pushing up with your feet??? LOL who ever tought you to bench needs to go back to school..
(1) that SERIOUSLY over compresses your lower back which is BAD..
(2) that in essence moves pressure to more on your shoulders then purely chest...

not to be an ass. .but looks like somone needs to do more research before giving advice that could possibly cause somone else to get hurt in the gym.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 09:18 AM
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yeah, arching will not help at all. the only time i arch is when im on bench without a spotter and i need help getting the weight up. arching will add to your momentum a bit. its the opposite movement from an incline though, on incline your pushing slightly up toward your head, when arching your back causes you to push down, away from your head. i stay stick with flat back bench, and so chest fly excercises. or just drink a lot of beer and grow you some man boobs.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaolin
Well if you want your muscles to be more defined and bigger then you do incline...If you're going to do flat bench then arch your back on the pad...that will give you faster results...It doesn't matter just trick it up....later
Definition is a product of low body fat, muscle tone, and little or no subcutaneous water retention. There isn't one single exercise to produce more or less than any other. Getting there is more about diet, cardio, and hydration.

Conversely, muscle atrophy (growth) is also a product of several factors suchg as diet, muscle stimulus, and adequate rest. Again, there is no one lift that will produce more or less growth than another, as a variety of excercises/set/poundages is necessary to create new growth.

If you can get it done without bench more power to you, but flat bench with proper form is a core exercise that any serious program shouldn't be without.

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning
umm no...
incline is more of an ' upper chest" movement.. if you even believe its possible to isolate sections of your chest.( some people dont).. If Isolation IS possible.. INclined would do Nothing for your lower chest, minimal for Pectoralis major.. and alot for your upper pectoralis minor...
you cant get " definition" by focusing on incline.. definition comes with Low body fat.. you can so nothing but HUGE mass movements and diet to hell and be defined and shredded.

The topic was strength.. nothing hits chest and builds bulk and strength like Flat bench..

as for arching your back on the pad.. Arching it as in pushing up with your feet??? LOL who ever tought you to bench needs to go back to school..
(1) that SERIOUSLY over compresses your lower back which is BAD..
(2) that in essence moves pressure to more on your shoulders then purely chest...

not to be an ass. .but looks like somone needs to do more research before giving advice that could possibly cause somone else to get hurt in the gym.
Ok....fitness guru....I'll have to show you how to arch your back during a workout....I may not be the best expert on this because I believe its either you or MonsoonX...but I know strength training because I played 4years of college football and have been through some of the most impactful pro-football training regiments...I used no steroids or growth hormones....You have what works for you and I have what worked for my team...I didn't want to come on here to argue with "Mr. 24hr fitness"...LOL's...So don't take offense alright stud rocket...! I see you know your stuff and all your points have been taken...Whats up MonsoonX....I'll be rolling by your house in my Coupe early next month...

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Got Boost?
Definition is a product of low body fat, muscle tone, and little or no subcutaneous water retention. There isn't one single exercise to produce more or less than any other. Getting there is more about diet, cardio, and hydration.

Conversely, muscle atrophy (growth) is also a product of several factors suchg as diet, muscle stimulus, and adequate rest. Again, there is no one lift that will produce more or less growth than another, as a variety of excercises/set/poundages is necessary to create new growth.

If you can get it done without bench more power to you, but flat bench with proper form is a core exercise that any serious program shouldn't be without.
I was put on a regiments of Incline bench and using free weight and the incline strength machines along with doing Power cleans....So it made me strong as an OX...It made my chest especially the upper part which is the larger part HUGE...as you can see, I don't have time to break it down to the details about diet, cardio, and hydration...We should be aware of those details already....I was just stating the basics about brute strength training not making yourself beautiful specimens...What I mean by tricking it up is to do heavy weight and light weight...sometimes in the same workout...Your body will get used to the same regimen and you will never surpass that plateau...Agreed...you guys have pushed me out into working out with you all....Damn I didn't want to have to do this...

Last edited by Cobra Commander; 05-16-2003 at 08:26 PM.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 11:46 PM
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define stong as an ox.. with doing flat bench.. i got up to repping 315 17 times.. 405 for sets of 6.. and a max of 485.. and i dont consider myself "strong as an ox".. you must be a monster.

oh. and with my routine.. i was still able in incline dumbell press the 130s for sets of 12.. guess you are right using Flat bench as your major mass movement didnt work for me!
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 12:46 AM
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A monster? No...but a heavy hitter...Yes

Well that was a few years ago when I was an athlete...I've let myself go by not working out anymore so you got me there...You and MonsoonX have got me thinking about getting back into that again...I just got to get myself out of wanting to spend my spare time wrenching on these damn mustangs....Thanks for the inspiration....Later

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 01:39 AM
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Re: A monster? No...but a heavy hitter...Yes

Quote:
Originally posted by Shaolin
Well that was a few years ago when I was an athlete...I've let myself go by not working out anymore so you got me there...You and MonsoonX have got me thinking about getting back into that again...I just got to get myself out of wanting to spend my spare time wrenching on these damn mustangs....Thanks for the inspiration....Later
im just getting back into it myself.. the last 2-3 years have been on and off.. im comming off a 9 month " off run" .. last week, my 3rd week back.. i was back up to benching 315 for 6.
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 04:29 PM
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You should arch your back doing bench, that is perfect powerlifting form. What no one said is that AT NO TIME should your ass leave the bench. The arch in your back changes the angle your arms to your pecs slightly, you use more of your lower pecs to do the movement (stronger). So the mid part of your bakc should be in the air, your ass and shoulders should be on the bench.

For ultimate strength on the flat bench you should also keep your feet flat on the floor and keep your elbows in to include the tricep at the bottom of the movement.

Now if you are training and want to isolate your chest then you can do all that silly shit like keep your elbows out or put your feet up on the bench. I keep my elbows out when working out, because I want to train my pecs on flat bench and make them do the work... but if I ever try to max out then its elbows in for max power, bringing the triceps into the equation adds that explosive power out of the bottom that the pecs can't give.
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 10:32 AM
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Let me sum this up because all people give good info.

Brandon- You're gonna have to read all the advice given here, do your own research and then find what your body responds to the best.

I think that we all agree that you need heavy weight with CORE strength movements. I outlined them in my first response. Those movements pack on the mass and strength because they require multiple muscles to get the weight moved.

Personally I love the flat bench, you get strong and big. But it will eventually hit a wall with growth. When you hit that wall switch to incline dumbell presses for a few weeks and when you get back to the flat you'll be stronger. Why? Because you've targeted more of the shoulders and upper chest with the incline. It takes more than just strong pecs to bench alot of of iron.

So find you a good model workout. I would suggest one from strength athletes and not what's in Musclemag. Notice the difference in strength athletes and bodybuilders. Strength athletes have far more strength and explosive power than the bodybuilders but do not have the definition of bodybuilders. It's all in the work and diet.

Some people will never be huge w/o year and I mean years of serious lifting and eating good.

Shaolin,WL and Al P are all naturally big boys. While you and I are small framed. So remember that and work out accordingly

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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:43 AM
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JC.. i agree... thats why i do flat and incline on the same day
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by White_lightning
JC.. i agree... thats why i do flat and incline on the same day
I do also but, I guess I was saying use the incline first when you're fresh and can get heavy. Go to flat bench when you're already tired instead of the reverse, to break the plateau.

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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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I do also but, I guess I was saying use the incline first when you're fresh and can get heavy. Go to flat bench when you're already tired instead of the reverse, to break the plateau.
yeah.. i agree...
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