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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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trimming the chest??

I have been working out and lots of cardio and have been seeing good results for how little I do work out but I want more to be gone from the chest area. I guess I suffer from the 'man boobies' more than I like and want them gone. I really havent done anything to try and get rid of them except the cardio that I do do, which is about 45-hour of jogging a day/ 5 days a week. Whatcha suggst?

Joel
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-18-2003, 07:37 PM
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Not to be negative but for some people its genetic. You can try to keep running to burn fat but there is no such thing as spot reduction. Just keep running thats reall all you can do.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-19-2003, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96BluOvl
there is no such thing as spot reduction
Exactly, the only way to lose more in the chest are is an overall reduction in bodyfat. Keep counting your calories and up cardio, you'll get there Joel.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 12:08 AM
 
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Try this. It sounds like you've been doing the jogging thing for a while. It's time to change your mode of cardio. Switch to your next favorite cardio machine, or just walk on a treadmill, instead of running. If you're running on a track, or street, do a fast walk, maybe with little bitty dumbbells in your hand.

Here's why... Have you ever looked on a cardio machine, and seen that little chart on the side, that shows heart beat ranges for "fat burn" and "cardio", for different ages? Well, that chart is not accurate for YOU, but it's probably pretty close. Anyway, in one to three days, take your Resting Heart Rate three times a day. VERY FIRST THING in the morning, as you sit up, but before you stand up. Sometime in the middle of the day, after you've been sitting for 10-15 minutes, peacefully. And one other time, in the evening, more than three hours after working out. Take an average of those #s, yes you'll have to write them down to keep track. Once you have the average Resting Heart Rate (RHR), you're ready for this formula:

220 - Age = Max Heart Rate (MHR)
[(MHR - RHR) * Training Percentage] + RHR = Training Heart Rate

For example on a 27 year old with a resting heart rate of 64:
220 - 27 = 193
193 - 64 = 129
129 * 50% = 64.5
64.5 + 64 = 128.5
Now, do that again with 60%, and 75%. You now have your training zones, like the ones on those charts. Between 50% and 60% is your FAT BURNING ZONE, and between 60% and 75% is your CARDIO ZONE. Anything over that, you're burning muscle!! Don't go in that range!! Unless you want to look like a Marathon runner.

I'm willing to bet, when your running for 45 mintues, your heart rate is getting pretty close, if not in, that muscle burning zone... so that's why I suggest walking... ON AN INCLINE!!

Look at it this way. I, personally, can walk on an incline of 15 (highest ours go at my work/gym), and start walking at a speed of 4.0. Then eventually get down to walking at 2.2 to 2.5, for long periods of time. That right there keeps my heart rate around 155-ish, which is my 60%. Don't hold on to the railing, or anything, just let your arms swing. Gets your heart rate up.

So, first of all, a change in cardio mode will send your body into shock again, like it did when your first started running and lost some fat. Second, the walking, or whatever, with your heart rate in the right zone now, will really start to burn off fat.

Next, like mentioned above, watch what you eat, and try to get the calorie intake below what you burn off in a day.

BTW, if you want to know what good Resting Heart Rate #s are:
80+ is pretty bad, you need to work on it.
70+ is pretty average, from what I see at work
60+ is getting better, bottom range of average
50+ is you're doing really well, and in pretty good shape
40+ is really bad ass, and your heart is VERY healthy... or unhealthy if you're sick or something
Lower than 40, you MUST be a Marathon runner, or something like that! Just imagine your heart only beating 38 times in a minute. More than a second between beets.

Sorry this was long, just trying to share my knowledge! Let me know if you have any questions. This is my job.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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. OK, i will let you know what i come up with. I do walk/jog on the treadmill not on a track. But I try better than most people to watch what I eat and I also dont eat any 'bread' carbs in the evening.

Joel

When you started off with your example, you stated," 220-27" is that weight minus age?
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ProStarPony
When you started off with your example, you stated," 220-27" is that weight minus age?
It is a number that somebody came up with, not sure who or how. But that number is static, meaning it is always the same. 220 is the number for a guy, 225 is the number for a girl.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally posted by XL
It is a number that somebody came up with, not sure who or how. But that number is static, meaning it is always the same. 220 is the number for a guy, 225 is the number for a girl.

No no. 220 is baby's heart rate when it comes out of a mother's womb. There is no 225 for a girl, or static number. It's just 220.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
No no. 220 is baby's heart rate when it comes out of a mother's womb. There is no 225 for a girl, or static number. It's just 220.
This was information I got out of something I had to do for a P.E. class. It used the same exact formula, but if you were a guy you started with 220, and if you were a girl you started with 225. It was some number like that, I don't have the packet anymore. Or maybe it was different numbers. I don't know... but I remember it differing for a girl and a guy.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 01:10 PM
 
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That's what I learned in all my training, and what we use at the gym. So, just tellin ya what I'm familiar with.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
That's what I learned in all my training, and what we use at the gym. So, just tellin ya what I'm familiar with.
What training are you referring to and what do you do at this gym you work at?


Not being a smartass prick, just curious.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally posted by KevinH78
What training are you referring to and what do you do at this gym you work at?


Not being a smartass prick, just curious.
I work at 24 Hour Fitness, and certified through them with the 24/5 Certification for Personal Trainer & Nutrition, I have the PFIT cert through Baylor Sports & Medicine Institute, and I'm trying to finish up my NASM cert, too. And of course First Aid & CPR.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
That's what I learned in all my training, and what we use at the gym. So, just tellin ya what I'm familiar with.
Well you are definately correct, same exact information as I had, but there was a different number for women. It doesn't really make that big of a difference anyways.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 09:59 PM
 
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Originally posted by XL
Well you are definately correct, same exact information as I had, but there was a different number for women. It doesn't really make that big of a difference anyways.
Nope! It's not going to throw the #s off that much. Besides, to be exact, you're supposed to do that formula everyday, b/c the better "in shape" you get, the lower your resting heart gets.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-20-2003, 10:34 PM
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Contrary to what others have stated, you can do "spot reduction".


Yohimburn

Research it.

I have a bottle of it sitting on my dresser waiting for me to get a bit further down in bf before throwing this around my chest and other "stubburn" fat areas.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 02:19 AM
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do you honestly think that stuff works?
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 08:37 AM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
I work at 24 Hour Fitness, and certified through them with the 24/5 Certification for Personal Trainer & Nutrition, I have the PFIT cert through Baylor Sports & Medicine Institute, and I'm trying to finish up my NASM cert, too. And of course First Aid & CPR.
WOOT WOOT!!! You got some mad fitness skills!

Thats pretty cool man. I just went to Oshmans last night and got a Polar heart rate monitor and it is pretty damn cool. I got the A3 but after thinking about it, I am going to go swap it for the A1 and save $30. The A3 has a couple extra features that are pretty neat but I am not the hard core cardio type so I really don't need the extra $30 worth of features.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
I work at 24 Hour Fitness, and certified through them with the 24/5 Certification for Personal Trainer & Nutrition, I have the PFIT cert through Baylor Sports & Medicine Institute, and I'm trying to finish up my NASM cert, too. And of course First Aid & CPR.

Have fun working for that dump. I gave two years of my life to that company. I worked my ass off, and what did I recieve in return, ya, more work.

Get out while you can.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally posted by DarkPony
Have fun working for that dump. I gave two years of my life to that company. I worked my ass off, and what did I recieve in return, ya, more work.

Get out while you can.
LOL Yeah, I got hired thinking I was going to try to move up in the company, like Fitness Manager (since I do have a degree in Bus. Management ), but once I figured things out, nope! I'm only training part time, like in the evenings, and training just because I like to train...... certain people at least. LOL But thanks, though!!

And KevinH78, yeah, my girlfriend tried to buy me one for Christmas, but we took it back to get the one I wanted, and she has yet to order it for me, since hardly anybody around here carried the model I want. But I have friends with them, and some love it, and some rarely use it.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96BluOvl
do you honestly think that stuff works?
I didnt buy it because I thought it wouldn't.....

Seriously. Research it first. Understand what it is and how it works. This isnt something you walk into GNC and buy.

www.elitefitness.com - do a search on it. I have yet to find anyone that used it that said it didnt work for them.

I ordered the old version a year and a half ago. my ex-wife ended up using it and she said it worked for her on some stubborn fat areas.

I research everything before I buy it and stay away from crap.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 03:01 PM
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I've seen that stuff everywhere. It is a proven fact that you cannot spot reduce fat. I mean honestly I wish you could but I have not had those results.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 03:04 PM
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Shit if you swear by maybe I'll give it a try!!! I just tried the CLA crap and that stuff was a joke. what do I have to lose, right?
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-21-2003, 10:59 PM
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Suggestion..

get more size in your shoulders, back,arms and your chest will look MUCH better, keep running but work on getting some more size in your upper body, I had to work for 5 months to make my chest look good, im STILL not there BTW lol but getting closer.

Im new here and im not trying to bug in, just went through the same thing man.
post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-22-2003, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96BluOvl
I've seen that stuff everywhere. It is a proven fact that you cannot spot reduce fat. I mean honestly I wish you could but I have not had those results.
It is NOT a proven fact. Its been widely accepted that trying to spot reduce fat using isolation excercises is simply fruitless.

Spot reducing fat via liposuction works.

Spot reducing "stubborn fat" works using Yohimbine HCL and a transdermal agent. It specifically breaks up estrogenic fat. Using it on anything other, will not produce results.

About 5-10% of users, at least from reports, dont respond to yohimburn. Though most of those are people who have used it for puffy nipples...

There are a couple of people who used on abs or love handles and did not respond..

WHY??
well in some cases it may be due to diet or exercise (particularly lack thereof)

HOWEVER, some people either dont have high concentrations of A2 or they dont respond to yohimbine.. perhaps due to difference in post/pre-synaptic receptors and/or having different receptor isoforms..

There have been some users who "thought" they did not respond well until they have looked at their before/after pics. another factor is the water retention.. which means results may not be apparent for up to 2weeks after use and the fact that water may affect perceptions of original size of fat pockets.. pictures are good and they are highly encouraged. ---(though you may have in fact not responded.. these are just some other user observations)

Pharmicuetical research information on Yohimbine.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/yohimbin.htm


I'll let you know how it worked for me. Im waiting till I get my bf % to around 18 before using it.

1 guy that used it for a 3 month period. you can see the diff.



Another pic of a female bodybuilder that uses it and swears by it.

Although there are a ton of peeps that use it and love it and see the difference, not many take pix. I WILL take pix before I start using it and afterwards.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-22-2003, 05:32 PM
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Ok good info but like I've come across, how can you isolate loosing fat from using this stuff and losing fat by just exercising? I mean how do they know that they didn't lose it just from workingout? I see your points though.

http://www.bodytrends.com/articles/s...eductiongf.htm

Very brief article but factual.

Last edited by 96BluOvl; 03-22-2003 at 05:40 PM.
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-22-2003, 08:59 PM
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Because most of the people who use it are people who seem to have the "stubborn fat pockets" that just dont seem to go away. They already excersize, work-out, diet and still can't seem to get rid of those spots.


WHAT IS YOHIMBURN ?

Yohimburn is a topical fat burning gel that specifically targets stubborn fatty deposits.

HOW DOES IT WORK?

Yohimburn's active ingredient is Yohimbine. Yohimbine binds to sites in your body called Alpha-2 (A2) receptors. Yohimbine is an Alpha-2 antagonist, which means that it blocks these A2 receptors sites. Yohimburn delivers Yohimbine to the site where it is applied. Which should be a site with a lot of A2 receptors, which we will get into later.

WHY IS BLOCKING THESE A2 RECEPTOR SITES BENEFICIAL?

If you block the A2 receptor it prevents the receptor from telling your body to stop producing Nor epinephrine (NE) at that site. The increase in NE at the site causes considerably more fatty acids to be released. This release of fatty acids, to be used for energy, is often referred to as "FAT BURNING".

WHERE ARE THESE A2 RECEPTOR SITES?

Well they are located throughout your body. But their highest concentrations are in STUBBORN FATTY DEPOSITS. It is the high number of A2 receptors in these areas that makes them stubborn.

DO I HAVE LOTS OF THE A2 RECEPTORS OR NOT?

(Is Yohimburn going to work for me)?

There is one main factor, other than genetics, that is involved in determining an individual's number of A2 receptors. It is exposure to ESTROGEN. Estrogen agonizes these A2 sites, which shuts down even further the use of fatty acids. What this means is that it stops fat burning at the site. Even worse, repeated exposure to Estrogen INCREASES the number of A2 sites. If you are a women you will tend to have a lot of these A2 sites because of the fact that women have considerably higher levels of Estrogen. Areas where these A2 sites are typically richest.. they tend to be highest in thighs, gluteus , hips and often the triceps ( the back of the arm). The high number of A2 receptors in these areas is why it is often so difficult to lose fat there.


SO, IF I AM A MAN, IT WON'T DO MUCH FOR ME?

No, quite the opposite Yohimburn can be very effective for men. However the areas where it is most beneficial are less consistent than those of women.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-25-2003, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackandBlueLX
Between 50% and 60% is your FAT BURNING ZONE, and between 60% and 75% is your CARDIO ZONE. Anything over that, you're burning muscle!! Don't go in that range!! Unless you want to look like a Marathon runner.
Good info except for this part... You don't ever "burn muscle" when doing cardio. The "cardio" and "fat burning" zones are a guide for people to control there speed or intensity on the machine. Higher HR exercise does provide more cardiovascular benefit than at a lower rate, but most people can not stay at that pace for very long. This results in less calories being burned. Lower HR exercise is less intense and usually requires more time to burn "x" amount of calories, but is more feasible for most people.
Marathon runners have no muscle because their BF levels are nill and they often burn more calories than they take in. This results in using lean tissue for fuel. Not the case for 99.9% of the population. Many people can operate at 90+% of their MHR for long periods of time without reaching the anaerobic threshold. It does not mean they are using muscle for fuel. They are however, using a lot of calories at that level.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-25-2003, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Suggestion..

Quote:
Originally posted by Canimakeit
get more size in your shoulders, back,arms and your chest will look MUCH better, keep running but work on getting some more size in your upper body, I had to work for 5 months to make my chest look good, im STILL not there BTW lol but getting closer.

Im new here and im not trying to bug in, just went through the same thing man.
Yea, i just changed my work out plan and threw in some new exercises that are going to help the rest out and I will keep ya'll posted if I like what I see.

Joel
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-26-2003, 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Bad89stang
Many people can operate at 90+% of their MHR for long periods of time without reaching the anaerobic threshold. It does not mean they are using muscle for fuel. They are however, using a lot of calories at that level.
They are also about to die.....

I'd love to see peeps using 90% of the MHR for long periods of time.

220 - 29 = 191
191 * .90 = 171.9 bpm

So 90% of my max heart rate is 172. I can maintain 163 to 165 pretty easily for 45 minutes on a Reebok fusion machine. When I get my heart rate to 172 or 173, it feels like its going to pop out my chest. I find it hard to believe many people can operate at 90% of their MHR for long periods of time. Maybe 1 to 2 minute burts, but anything more than that would be damaging to their heart.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-26-2003, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil
They are also about to die.....

I'd love to see peeps using 90% of the MHR for long periods of time.

220 - 29 = 191
191 * .90 = 171.9 bpm

So 90% of my max heart rate is 172. I can maintain 163 to 165 pretty easily for 45 minutes on a Reebok fusion machine. When I get my heart rate to 172 or 173, it feels like its going to pop out my chest. I find it hard to believe many people can operate at 90% of their MHR for long periods of time. Maybe 1 to 2 minute burts, but anything more than that would be damaging to their heart.
Completely untrue. Just because you can not does not mean that others are unable to operate at this intensity. I can work on the elliptical at 175+ for 45 minutes and I am still able to pass the talk test that we use to guage fatigue. Many of our clients work at more than 90% of their MHR and do perfectly fine. You have to remember that MHR is theoretical. It is not the absolute limit. You will not have a heart attack if you get your heart rate up too high. Your body does not allow you to do cardio at such a level that would damage your heart. We reach V02 max for a reason. Take care.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-26-2003, 10:39 PM
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I did some research earlier, and found that I was a bit off.

Apparently, my VO2 max sux. I did a test I found for using a tread mill and its horrible.

Im going to have to get my VO2 max up because as it is now, its killing my ability to run.
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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-26-2003, 10:56 PM
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V02 max

It won't take you long to get your V02 max up some. You should try a real V02 max test like the ones performed at Cooper Clinic. They suck big time. I have seen more than one person puke while doing the test. It is a great way to measure the efficiency of your cardiovascular system though. Even the one that you did is fairly accurate. I can run ~5 min flat mile for 3-4 miles. After that point I usually slow to a 6 min pace. My V02 max is pretty good, but I have seen people that blew my results away.

<--- won the Southlake Stampede 5K last year. Hoping to repeat this year. Yipeee! Like anyone cares.
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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2003, 05:25 PM
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hitting the upper chest will help visually to make the man boobs not so prominant.

Forrest <-- sufferer
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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2003, 06:19 PM
 
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Also, lean-forward Dips, or Wide Chest Press (Hammer Strenght machines or wide-grip on barbell), Decline Chest Press, and Wide Hands Push Ups are all good for "firming up" lower chest region, as well. Oh yeah, and decline flyes worked real good for me to square up my lower chest, especially the cleavage area (inner-lower chest).
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