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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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for all you guys wanting to get big...

EAT...

THE most anabolic substance you can take is food... you can take all the steroids in the world and lift all the weights you want, but if you don't EAT, you're never going to add any mass... it's simple physics, your body needs fuel... energy... calories...

today I kept a journal of what I ate... I didn't eat as often as I'd like, but that's going to change.

meal 1: 5 whole eggs + 2 egg whites, three slices of buttered toast, 2 tablespoons of peanut butter

meal 2: 1 can of tuna with mustard, 1 cup of rice, 1/2 a chicken breast, 1/2 a baked yam, two big shots of flax seed oil

meal 3: 5 whole eggs + 2 egg whites, three slices of toast, 2tbsp peanut butter, 8oz 2% milk

meal 4: meal replacement shake

meal 5: one Whataburger

estimated grand totals?

3200 calories, 220g protein

NOT ENOUGH!

my goal is 4k a day with over 3k coming from whole foods. gonna be splitting it up into 7-8 meals...

I cooked up 6lbs of ground beef tonight and ~20cups of brown rice...

do yourself a favor, mix up your protein sources... I speak from experience when I tell you you'll get burnt out QUICK on 5 cans of tuna a day or two dozen eggs a day, etc.

oh, and get some ginger root caps as they aid in protein digestion, and I like mustard with lots of stuff as it helps w/ digestion.

eating is the most difficult component of building muscle... lifting weights is the fun part... sleeping is cool too (make sure you're getting your 8hrs! that's when your body takes that food and uses it to rebuild your muscles!)

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 08:43 AM
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So, how bad is it to get a lot of that from Protein shakes? I eat a ton of those a day.

I watched everything I ate the other day and I ended up with right at 3100 cal and just over 300 grams of protein. A lot of that was shakes though. I was eating or drinking or both every 2 - 2.5 hours that day.
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 08:52 AM
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You also have to remember that you can only absorb so much protein in one sitting...like 35 grams depending on your size of course.

Also, not only sleep good but take a nap if you have time, those little 30 minute to one hour naps alwasy make me feel a lot better when I am sore.

You should be as lazy as possible when trying to build mass except when in the gym.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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well, I've always been told and have always believed that real food is better... they are naturally balanced, and I'd venture that you probably absorb more.

and, it depends on what brand of shake you're buying... unfortunately, you can't always trust the label to tell you exactly what's in there. with food, it is what it is...

shakes can get expensive too...

but, I definately think they have their place... I plan on using one, but I'm going to try to get as much as I can from real food.

if you're going to be taking a lot of meal replacements, be sure to take some supplimental fiber and get some flax seed oil.

and, as always, drink lotsa water!

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 09:10 AM
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I been doing that Atkins diet shit for the past 4 or 5 days and I'm liking it. I went over to Sonny Bryan's on saturday and got a pound of brisket and ate the hell out of it all weekend. I usually take a designer protein shake in the morning, lots of meat during the day, some sausage and shit too, then a designer protein shake at night. i'm gonna throw some turkey and chicken in there later but for now I like the read meat because the fat gives me some energy.

We will see how it works, the protein has got to be pretty high, if I can get down to 195 to 197 pounds I'll be happy.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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atkins works... allows you to shed fat without burning a bunch of muscle... but damn man, it drives me crazy... good luck w/ it man!
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 10:25 AM
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I'm trying to get my calories up too, but without alot of added fat so I'm eating alot of chicken, oatmeal, and protien shakes. Eating for growth isn't much easier than dieting down when you try to stay strict. I'd love to go all out and eat pizza, peanut butter, red meat, etc, but come trimming time I don't wanna have to deal with dropping alot of bodyfat.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 10:28 AM
 
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I recently designed myself a new diet after recovering from a shoulder injury and losing 20 pounds. I am taking in about 4,300 calories per day, and about 300 grams of protein. I currently have gained about 6 pounds in 1.5 months which was my goal...~1 lb per week. That way I don't become a fatass! I am eating 4 meals and drinking 3. Eventually I will phase over to eating more of the meals, but it does get expensive.

And AL P said it best: "You should be as lazy as possible when trying to build mass except when in the gym." AMEN!!!
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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this is fucking painful... I got down ~1300 relatively clean calories down before noon... my sister invited me to her companies thanksgiving party. I figured it'd be a good place to get some good food... I COULD NOT eat ANYTHING... made me nauseous!

it's now 2:30... I gotta go choke down some more food! :cry:

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 01:37 PM
 
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Forrest, that's why the liquid shakes are easier when you are trying to take in that many calories. Your body absorbs the liquid a lot faster than it can digest the food. I am drinking ~850 calorie shakes 2 hours before I eat a 700 calories lunch. I can recommend some good weight gainer products if you want. Let me know.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Mike,

funny you mention it... I wussed out and made a shake! LOL!

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-25-2002, 02:05 PM
 
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 08:29 AM
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I've been using Optimum Nutrition's Whey Protein. It is not a weight gainer type with lots of calories and one scoop is like 22 grams of protein, but it tastes great with skim milk which has 8 - 9 grams of protein per cup. I mix it with 2 cups of milk and about 1.5 - 1.75 scoops of protein. This makes about 350 calories and 53 grams of protein.

Not too expensive where I get it - there is a small discount drug store here that buys is in huge quantities in the smaller packaging and it is about $12. for that. The same stuff in the larger quantity package is the same higher price as everywhere else and much more per lb.

Anyway , I drink one of those at about 7:30AM and around 9:45AM, then I have been eating a chicken breast and drinking a partial shake for lunch which ends up being 55 grams of protein and a little over 400 cal. then at about 2:00 PM and at 4:00PM more shakes and then dinner and depending on the protein in that I may have another partial shake, or maybe just 2 cups of milk. Then around 8:00 pr 9:00 I have another shake.

At the end of the day I have taken in about 350 - 370 grams of protein and about 2500 plus calories. I can see that I need more calories there.

I was told before that the body could absorb about 47 grams of protein at a time and that the whey shakes' protein would be in the system about 2 hours so I try to spread it out to accomodate that schedule. I also heard tha tit is better to err on the high side on the protein so if I am only using 35 or 40 then I got that much there.

Yesterday I went with tuna and rice for lunch and that added more cal. and I think I ended up a the end of the day with like 3400 callories after all was done for the day.

Anyone got any suggestions for me?

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Last edited by Todd; 11-26-2002 at 08:35 AM.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 08:34 AM
 
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Todd, sounds like you are getting plenty of protein. I have found that most of the weight gainers calories are from carbs, and not protein. So when I mix a shake I add a few scoops of protein. This brings the protein content up as well as the calories. My protein of choice is the EAS Simply Protein, Rich chocolate. I believe it tastes better than the Optimum Nutrition. Just my $.02
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 08:43 AM
 
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How can I find out how many calories I need? I'm currently (as of last night) 193, and still wanting 7 more lbs.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CobraMike
Todd, sounds like you are getting plenty of protein. I have found that most of the weight gainers calories are from carbs, and not protein. So when I mix a shake I add a few scoops of protein. This brings the protein content up as well as the calories. My protein of choice is the EAS Simply Protein, Rich chocolate. I believe it tastes better than the Optimum Nutrition. Just my $.02
Yeah it probably does taste a little better, but I am on the super low $ program , so my choices are limited by the price too. I have not found anything that gives me this much for the price. I can't wait to get to where I can try some others though.

I used to use GNC's Weight gainer 1800 a long time ago and I remember that tasted great but I think I was reading abotu it lately and the numbers were not what I was looking for.

I was just looking more on optimum nutrition's site at the Meap replacements and they have this "Opti-Pro Meal Packets" and there are 20 packets for about $45.00 - that is like $2.25 a meal. Still cheaper than eating most meals I guess. and it has 260 cal, 40 grams of pro. I am assuming you mix that with milk also to add abotu 9 - 18 extra grams of proteina nd 90 - 180 more calories. Sounds like a decent deal there too. I may have to save up and spring for that to ge the carbs up some more and it being designed to replace a meal should be better for me than using a whey protein shale as a meal replacement.

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lethal
How can I find out how many calories I need? I'm currently (as of last night) 193, and still wanting 7 more lbs.
A quick search on the internet yielded this from http://www.acefitness.org

A useful rule of thumb is that in order to gain 1 pound of body weight per week, you should consume an additional 500 calories per day above the amount you typically consume. This number varies from person to person (depending on such factors as weight and metabolism), but you get the idea: Eating more than normal is a must if you want to gain weight. Boost your calories by consistently consuming three larger-than-normal meals a day plus two or more snacks during the mid-morning and mid-afternoon. Try to eat foods that are high in calories, but remember to stay away from saturated fats such as cheese, beef, butter and bacon. It's best to stick to a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet that you modify to include larger quantities. This also applies to your intake of protein. Many athletes seeking to gain muscle use protein powders and amino acid supplements. This isn't necessary if you eat the recommended amount of dietary protein (15 percent to 20 percent of daily calories), which is less expensive than buying supplements. To be sure that you are sensibly increasing your caloric intake, make an appointment with a registered dietitian who can help you plan your meals.

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 09:06 AM
 
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Todd -

Actually the EAS and Optimum protein are the same price, about $30 for the 5lb. tub. As far as the meal replacements go, I think they are a waste. My philosophy (for my body) is to gain weight without adding too much fat. In the past I have tried the Mega Mass and other weight gainers, but they are loaded with sugar. Like 50-60g per shake. I found a Labrada weight gainer called Kwik Size that has only about 4-5g per 700 calorie shake. Here is my cost breakdown for one of my shakes:

Labrada Kwik Size - 4 scoops ~$1.66
EAS Simply Protein - 4 scoops ~$0.75

Calories: 822
Carbs: 126g
Protein: 66g
Sugar: 8g

Total cost: $2.41

So for $0.16 more per shake you get a helluva lot more content. BTW, these are mixed with cold distilled water and blended. Taste is not too bad.

As far as the calories go, basically Todd is right. About 500 more than your body uses. To simplify my diet and not get into the calculations, I am using this formula to find the daily calories I need:

Desired Body Weight (lbs.) x 18 calories/lb

So I am trying to get to 240lbs., so my daily caloric intake should be around 4,300 calories.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 09:25 AM
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so based on that if I wanted to weigh about 215 I would need to be eating 3870 callories a day. sounds like a lot for a 172 lb guy.

Should you try to get there in steps though? Or jsut set the callories on high and go for it? Like maybe get set up to get to 185 or something aroud there first then step it up more after that. I am jsut worried about not using all the callories and having to work off a ton of fat later. Am I being stupid there?
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 09:56 AM
 
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No you're not stupid. You are trying to gain 40 pounds, and that is a lot. The calorie calculation depends on a lot more though, like your metabolism, how active you are, etc. It also has to do with trial and error to see how YOUR body responds. Try and find a health website that will let you calculate how many calories you actually use in one day, and then go from there.
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 10:23 AM
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Also, gaining 40 lbs. is a long process, easily a two year process unless you want to take roids. I'm talking about gaining muscle mass with little fat.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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if you want to gain a lot of muscle quickly, you're going to have to gain some fat while you do it... if you want to add muscle without gaining fat, it's going to slow the process considerably.

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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AL P
Also, gaining 40 lbs. is a long process, easily a two year process unless you want to take roids. I'm talking about gaining muscle mass with little fat.
I'm definately not wanting to get into the use of roids.

Yeah, I was thinking it was not going to be anytime soon gaining that much. That is why I was thinking maybe to make a goal of 190 or somewhere halfway at first and adjust the calories and all that to fit that and then step to the higher goal later. HEll, 190 is still about 20 lbs and I am not as lean as I'd like to be so that is a pretty hefty gain to be looking at anyway I assume.

I'm also not taking Creatine - ya think this is a good time to start that too?
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Forrest
if you want to gain a lot of muscle quickly, you're going to have to gain some fat while you do it... if you want to add muscle without gaining fat, it's going to slow the process considerably.

Forrest
Forrest - I am not afraid to gain some fat, jsut didn't want to over do that to where it was going to be too huge a battle when it came time to trim the fat off. I am certainly interested in the quickest method of gaining muscle mass. Aside from Roids of course.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Todd, just be good w/ your diet... get quality calories... low saturated fats (be sure to get fats though... get some flax seed oil and mix it w/ your shakes... you NEED fats!), no refined sugar except for directly after workout and then make it dextrose, NOT sucrose. lean meats, etc.

the way I approach a diet is I say, "what would I want my kid to eat?" would I rather him eat a bunch of fried chicken or would I rather him eat a bunch of grilled chicken? would I rather him eat cookies and cake or a big fat steak?

you have a body type that should allow you to pack on some decent muscle without adding a lot of fat...

and whatever fat you gain, you can cut off quickly... the more muscle you have, the easier it is to burn fat... a ketosis diet w/ some ephedrine/caffeine stacks and a little cardio starting in late Feb, and you'll be all cut up for spring break!

that's the theory anyhow... I store more fat than you... it'll be interesting to see just how fat I get! I plan on bulking all winter. but I don't mind carying a little extra fat as long as I've got the muscle under there... I'd rather be big than skinny!

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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I've found another benefit to real food vs. shakes... HUNGER!

after changing my diet to get a larger % from real food, I've noticed that my hunger is increasing... I guess from stretching my stomach?

I'm on my third meal today... yesterday I wussed out and had a shake...

oh... that just cued me into con to whole foods... I'm gonna be HUNGRY when it comes time to cut in spring! LOL!

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Forrest


oh... that just cued me into con to whole foods... I'm gonna be HUNGRY when it comes time to cut in spring! LOL!

Forrest
lol. Yeah, that will suck! I feel a steady diet of low carb low calorie shakes is in my future this spring. That is how I pulled off those 15 LBS I lost when I got started again. I started replacing everything with those shakes. kept the protein up but the carbs and cal's were down. I was making them with water instead of milk also. YUCK! Also didnt' do a ton of cardio either. I think with a similar diet and a bad ass cardio I should be able to remove excess fat quickly. But, I"m going to be back on here alot then trying to figure out how much food I need to not loose any muscle and what types of workouts to maintain the muscle I have built and still burnthe fat off. ARGH! too much info needed!
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-26-2002, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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actually, I think I'll be alright when it comes time to cut...

I don't do "traditional" cardio, but I modify my lifting... lighter weights, longer sets, less rest between sets, etc. turns the lifting INTO cardio... add in a little ephedrine or caffeine pre-workout? good times!

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-27-2002, 09:50 AM
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I HATE ALL YOU FUCKERS!!!!!!!!

I am trying to drop the weight not gain. I am having a problem with the diet they put me on. I can't eat chicken that often, it makes me gag sometimes, and I don't like turkey, and tuna well that is just blah, so I am stuck with those meal shake packs at least 3 a day. My breakfast is good and I like it, 5 egg whites mixed with a protein shake and a banana. Then I have a shake, then 6oz of chicken and a salad plain, then shake, work out then shake. I hate this damn diet but at least I don't gag.
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-27-2002, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cartman
I HATE ALL YOU FUCKERS!!!!!!!!

I am trying to drop the weight not gain. I am having a problem with the diet they put me on. I can't eat chicken that often, it makes me gag sometimes, and I don't like turkey, and tuna well that is just blah, so I am stuck with those meal shake packs at least 3 a day. My breakfast is good and I like it, 5 egg whites mixed with a protein shake and a banana. Then I have a shake, then 6oz of chicken and a salad plain, then shake, work out then shake. I hate this damn diet but at least I don't gag.
Well go run about 4 miles every morning and you can eat whatever you want!!
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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-27-2002, 08:03 PM
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I usually use the Myoplex Deluxe when I'm trying to pack some mass. Mesotech was pretty good shit too. Its always better to get your proteins and other vitamins naturally through food because your body transports it faster and more efficiently than supplements. I am not saying supplements don't work, but they are all called "supplements" for a reason. Keep in mind I'm not trying to get HUGE just a good size without the fat. Weight Gainers just got me fat.
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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-28-2002, 10:39 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AL P
[B]lots of meat during the day, some sausage and shit to

You eat shit during the day?

Sorry but i just had to, and the part about lots of meat, happy gimore eat your heart, i mean shit out
post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-02-2002, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cartman
I HATE ALL YOU FUCKERS!!!!!!!!

I am trying to drop the weight not gain. I am having a problem with the diet they put me on.
I feel your pain, but having been on both sides of the fence, I find it far easier/quicker to reduce bodyfat than to gain solid lean mass. Growing can be quite frustrating and takes foreeeeever. If you are willing to stay active, that fat will melt off in no time, and you are able to be a little more lenient on the diet.

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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 06:18 PM
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Man, you guys seriously make me sick, I wish I was in the position where I needed to GAIN weight.

Maybe in a few years ill be able to post that I need to gain 20 or 30 pounds
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