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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Ephedra

There has been alot of discussion about ephedra based products here. I've taken Xenadrine, Ripped Fuel, Hydrocut in the past.

But, for those still taking it, please read the July 2002 Men's Journal article "This is Todd Weger's Brain On Ephedra".

Here was a Army Airborne stud, scored 300 outta 300 on his APFT test (90 push ups in two minutes, 90 sit ups in two minutes and run 2 miles in 12 minutes, no rest, done in 14 minutes). Basically, one fit mutha'.

He was taking Ultimate Orange which has 40mg of Ephedra and 500 milligrams of caffeine. I know most the above supplements have a lot less.

But, after reading how the took 1/2 his brain in 4 separate operations, my remaining Ripped Fuel was flushed down the toliet.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:27 AM
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I would be interested in reading that article but it sounds like this guy really abused ephedra. He is way over the safe daily limits. Isnt the recommended to be no more than 25 mg of ephedra alkaloids a day?

Sorry for the guy though. Just make me watch my supps and body even closer.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
I would be interested in reading that article but it sounds like this guy really abused ephedra. He is way over the safe daily limits. Isnt the recommended to be no more than 25 mg of ephedra alkaloids a day?

Sorry for the guy though. Just make me watch my supps and body even closer.

Karen
That was the "recommended" dose for Ultimate Orange from the article. Also, from the article, it appeared that he didn't take it every day, definetly not multiple times. But then again, it was an article.

I can understand the concern the article brought up though, which is Ephedra/Caffeine constrict the blood vessels. Since most (alot) of the use is "pre-workout", it is counters the body's natural ability to "open up" the blood vessels during periods of physical stress.

Which appeared to be the case of what happened to Todd Weger, in the article. He had some Ultimate Orange and went to the gym. He was on the treadmill and just blacked out.

I've almost cut out all the caffeine from my diet, just working on that last 80MG I need to wake my butt up in the morning.

This doesn't appear to be an isolated case, but you really have to look at each one individually. I've known alot of "cardio" fit people that have had heart attacks. My dad at 59 developed an aneurism in his thoracic aorta. Healthiest man I know.

So, this could have been something waiting to happen, the ephedra/caffeine combo may have helped it be realized earlier in his life.

But, it also serves as a good warning against the "well if 2 pills works, 3 pills will work better" syndrome!
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 02:39 PM
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A friend of mine was hospitalized for abusing Ripped Fuel. Nothing like the article you are talking about, but he took so much on a constant basis that it basically ate a hole in his stomach lining. The subject of ECAs is certainly not to be taken lightly. I'm still using them myself on occasion, but like Karen, I'm constantly monitoring myself to esure I'm not the next "Oops".

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 06:35 PM
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I'm taking hydroxycut, and it says to take 9 a day after you've been on it 3 weeks or longer.

I've been on it 3 weeks, and I take 6 at the most, sometimes only 4...so I think I'm safe...

I believe that a 'serving' is 3 capsules, and in 1 'serving' there is 20mg of ephedrine... so I am taking, at the MOST, 40 mg of ephedrine per day...spread out. 2 before breakfast, 2 before lunch, 2 before dinner...Sometimes only breakfast and lunch though, because it makes me wired before I go to sleep.

Am I safe? I have no history of heart troubles in my family, and the only time I EVER feel jittery is if I have an empty stomach, and it is VERY slight. No irregular heartbeats, and no other problems...

Thanks
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 06:38 PM
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What supplement do you guys recommend. I just started working out again, a few yrs ago I took Phosphagen HP and it seemed to work pretty well. Im just trying to get lean and build a little defintition.
Also if anyone wants to work out at 24 hr in Plano let me know.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnQ
I'm taking hydroxycut, and it says to take 9 a day after you've been on it 3 weeks or longer.

I've been on it 3 weeks, and I take 6 at the most, sometimes only 4...so I think I'm safe...

I believe that a 'serving' is 3 capsules, and in 1 'serving' there is 20mg of ephedrine... so I am taking, at the MOST, 40 mg of ephedrine per day...spread out. 2 before breakfast, 2 before lunch, 2 before dinner...Sometimes only breakfast and lunch though, because it makes me wired before I go to sleep.

Am I safe? I have no history of heart troubles in my family, and the only time I EVER feel jittery is if I have an empty stomach, and it is VERY slight. No irregular heartbeats, and no other problems...

Thanks
Shawn
Just listen to your body. Everyone will be different. When I was taking Ripped Fuel, I did 2 caps in the morning when I woke up. I get up rather early at 4:30am to make swim practice and sometimes I wouldn't get to bed until 11:00pm.

Just make sure you take regular breaks from taking it.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:06 PM
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I went three weeks, took one off, and just started again...

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnQ
I went three weeks, took one off, and just started again...

Shawn
Don't know what to tell ya' Shawn. Read the article and make your own decision. Scared the shi** outta me.

But then again, something about removing half my brain always seems to effect me.

I read the article and I can tell ya' I won't be stuffin' any ephedra in my mouth for a long time.

My ass just went back to as natural as I can be.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2002, 11:30 PM
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Well, I've always been known for learning the hard way...so I'll keep eatin the damn things, hehe

I'm still a young buck (19), maybe it's a little easier on me??

Shawn

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2002, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnQ
Well, I've always been known for learning the hard way...so I'll keep eatin the damn things, hehe

I'm still a young buck (19), maybe it's a little easier on me??

Shawn
Its called "invincible man syndrome". I went through it in my teens and twenties as well. Strokes only happen to old people, cancer only happens to old people, I'm going to live for ever.

Mostly true, you are more likely to die in a car accident, the a disease in your teens and twenties.

Once I past 30, I started to come to grips with my mortality. Maybe something to due with getting married, having kids and getting that first term-life insurance policy.

When you start figuring out, ok, if I died unexpectedly, how much of a policy do I need to make sure my wife won't have to go to work, the family has enough to afford a decent house, college, weddings (I have two to pay for!), etc.

Enjoy your youth! Hell, I can't believe I'm already 38 (39 next month). Just doesn't seem right. Seems like yesterday, I was crossing the platform to pick up my HS diploma.

I would say that you are probably ok, if the rest of your exercise and diet at good-to-great.

Make sure you aren't filling your face with Taco Bell, not working out, and going to play 2 hours of pickup basketball after popping a couple!
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2002, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra

Make sure you aren't filling your face with Taco Bell, not working out, and going to play 2 hours of pickup basketball after popping a couple!
That last line kind of lost me a little...

I know I shouldn't do the taco bell (but I do anyways on occassion, lol)

Should I not work out after taking them? I thought that was the point?

And basketball is probably a bad idea, right?

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2002, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnQ


That last line kind of lost me a little...

I know I shouldn't do the taco bell (but I do anyways on occassion, lol)

Should I not work out after taking them? I thought that was the point?

And basketball is probably a bad idea, right?

Shawn
Sorry, wasn't clear...

What I meant is, that if you are going to use them, make sure your diet isn't for shit. I do Taco Bell, the bean burritos aren't too too bad (the rest is for shit, nutrition wise). I've been known to eat an occasional 23oz porterhouse steak at Salt Grass as well.

If your diet is good/great, you are working out, then you are doing everything to protect yourself from the *potential* side effects of Ephedra.

But you still need to listen to your body (aniexty, blood pressure, palpitations, etc.) to make sure.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2002, 04:12 PM
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Ok, that's a bit more clear...

BTW, I work out 6 days a week, with cardio on AT LEAST 4 of those days, consisting of either running a few miles, or playing pickup basketball.

My job is rather physically demanding as well, so I figure I'm in pretty good shape.

I dont feel hardly anything from the pills...I just seem to sweat more and I can workout longer, so I guess I'm good to go!

However, they are a little pricey, and I dont think I will buy another bottle after I finish the one I have, not worth the possible side effects. I also feel that I can achieve the same results without them, they are just a little bit of an edge.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-04-2002, 06:50 PM
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I found a cure to all of the Ephedra problems for someone who likes taking supplements.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2002, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by UGIVEMEGAS
I found a cure to all of the Ephedra problems for someone who likes taking supplements.
I'm not a workout buff or anything, but I've always shyed away from taking any type of suppliments. I'm just too afraid of what may happen if my body reacts to the stuff. That guy that was taking that Ulitmate Orange stuff sounds pretty freakin insane, I'd like to be that fit, but at the cost of my brain, stomach lining, or whatever, its just not worth it to me IMHO.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2002, 04:59 PM
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1/2 you're brain? You'd be dead.... The company that made that orange shit stopped making it because of alot of complaints. Just dont over do it and you'll be ok. I use enough to get my fat burning then i start to taper of the hydroxycut and just keep up with regular workouts.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2002, 08:07 PM
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Re: Ephedra

Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra


He was taking Ultimate Orange which has 40mg of Ephedra and 500 milligrams of caffeine. I know most the above supplements have a lot less.

But, after reading how the took 1/2 his brain in 4 separate operations, my remaining Ripped Fuel was flushed down the toliet.
I read the same article. To date 12 people have died from ephedra.

Ever hear of alergic reactions? Imagine, 12 people died out of how many millions are taking the product?

You got 12 people that had a chemical reaction to it and got screwed.

Thats like saying X amount of people have died from driving mustangs. Does that mean you should trade in your mustang and start riding the bus? Nope.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2002, 08:22 PM
 
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That article was crap.
Whatever happened to taking it within its SAFE dosage range? Has anyone read the article in the newest flex about ephedra?
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-09-2002, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Re: Ephedra

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Evil


I read the same article. To date 12 people have died from ephedra.

Ever hear of alergic reactions? Imagine, 12 people died out of how many millions are taking the product?

You got 12 people that had a chemical reaction to it and got screwed.

Thats like saying X amount of people have died from driving mustangs. Does that mean you should trade in your mustang and start riding the bus? Nope.
Actually, it has been 40 cases that have been directly linked to Ephedra and about 900 bad reactions (which include heart attacks, strokes and siezures).

Dietary supplements have less regulations attached to them in this country than the hair dryer in your bathroom.

Doctors have also recently started seeing people in their 20s developing kidney stones.

Scientists at U of C, San Francisco reviewed 140 reports of serious problems with ephedra-containing products, 43 of those were not considered related to the supplement, 44 cases were, 10 deaths and 13 people were left with permanent disabilities.

I would say the death count that scientists have directly related to ephedra is much more than say, steriod use.

In the world of science, 8 years of data is not very much. Research on the effects of ephedra are just starting.

I don't care if you take it or not, that's a personal choice, just as driving my Cobra is. I pretty much have to drive and I tolerate the possibility of being killed or seriously injured for the convience of driving. Just as some people will find the effects of ephedra outweigh the potential risks of taking it.

But, you need to read all literature; good/bad/indifferent.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-09-2002, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkstar
That article was crap.
Whatever happened to taking it within its SAFE dosage range? Has anyone read the article in the newest flex about ephedra?
The article wasn't *crap*. There is a guy that had more fitness than 99.9% of the people on this board and now has 1/2 a brain, which was directly related to his ephedra supplement.

The SAFE dosage range most people assume is what the directions on the container say to take. That is what he took.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-09-2002, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96BluOvl
1/2 you're brain? You'd be dead.... The company that made that orange shit stopped making it because of alot of complaints. Just dont over do it and you'll be ok. I use enough to get my fat burning then i start to taper of the hydroxycut and just keep up with regular workouts.
Yes, you can survive with 1/2 a brain.

Another little fact, on the "safe dosage" argument... The University Of Arkansas' College of Pharmacy discover that 1/2 the ephedrine products marketed today are up to 20% inconsistent with their stated potency.

What is Xenadrine's rec'd max dosage? 4 caps a day? What if, by chance you took those 4 20%+ caps that day? A dosage 20% higher than the rec'd amount.

Like I said, its legal, so its up to personal choice (I guess even if it was illegal its still personal choice).
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra


The article wasn't *crap*. There is a guy that had more fitness than 99.9% of the people on this board and now has 1/2 a brain, which was directly related to his ephedra supplement.

The SAFE dosage range most people assume is what the directions on the container say to take. That is what he took.
First, your making the assumption that it was the ephedra itself that did the damage. Ever hear of "alergic reaction" or "chemical reaction"? Obviously, his body was not able to deal with the ephedra he was taking, had a bad reaction, and is now in a state of living with 1/2 his brain. I feel bad for the guy. I don't think it was his own fault or anything, but what if he had taken a prescribed product and had the same reaction? How was any one to know what would happen?

Your right about the product being unregulated. Because they are using herbal extracts, its not considered a *drug*. Each cap in the same bottle has varied by as much as 20%.

So, yea, you don't really know how much ephedra you really are getting. My next ECA stack is going to be NYC. Safer, easier on the central nervous system, and more themogenic than the normal ECA stack @ the same amounts.

NYC Contains: 25mg of norephedrine, 100mg of caffeine and 2.7mg of yohimbine hcl.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Yes, you can survive with 1/2 a brain.
Just read any of Whiteboy's posts... heh

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnQ

I'm still a young buck (19), maybe it's a little easier on me??

Shawn
Don't fool yourself. During my senior year of high school track, most of the sprinters and jumpers on my team all started using Hydroxycut. I never took more than was recommended, and on occasion would forget to take it for a couple days. But I have a VERY minor irregular heart beat, which surfaced due to the supplement. I was warming up at a track meet, and pretty much collapsed. I remember sinking to my knees, lowering my head towards the ground, and then nothing until I was in the ambulance. They said my eyes were open the entire time, I was just not there. The sad part... it wasn't a once and only thing. I've never had one so bad, but even last week, I blanked out. My vision gets foggy, then goes dark, and I can't really hear. Kinda shocked the shit out of me, and my coaches, when the doctors told me what triggered the heart patterns. Needless to say, I don't like the stuff. I was told to use Xynedrine when I had mono, to help maintain my BF levels, but I took MAYBE 2 a week, then I started noticing more lapses, so I threw the bottle away.


Not trying to scare you, just don't think you're invincible because you're young.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 10:47 AM
 
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This is Todd Weger, the subject of the article that is being discussed in this thread.
A friend, informed me that he had read about me online, so I googled myself and I came across this forum.
After reading the post, and some of the pithy comments, I just wanted to inform everyone that I did not "abuse" the product I was taking (Ultimate Orange).
The directions on the can stated how much I should use for the weight I was at the time, and I never used more than what the can instructed me to use!

In reading some of the post, it seems that some people have the attitude: sorry for that guy, but they would never happen to me?
Im to young, Im in great shape and healthy.
When I had my strokes, I was 29, worked out in the gym for 2 hours every other day, I was in the best shape of my life.
Iv'e actually been on a couple of talk shows discussing ephedrine, and the reoccuring theme seems to be: "ITS NOT A MATTER IF IT EFFECTS YOU BUT WHEN"!
I would like to say" Thanks for the people that actually read the article and had positive things to say about myself and my plight.
Sncerely,
Todd W.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 11:46 AM
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
Enough for me, I'll stick to coffee

That can be pretty bad for you too...

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