Force factor - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
Force factor

Anyon try force factor pills............................................. ..............
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
well i have a 2.99 s&h only priced 14 day trail force factor
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 09:21 PM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
It's main ingredient is L-arginine aka N.O., which has been shown over and over to have 0 effect on the human body when taking orally. It's an NO product and anyone that does their homework on supplements wouldnt be spending money on that product.

If you think im wrong, please show me a study that proves otherwise we taken ORALLY. I have never seen one and i can provide many studies that show it does nothing.

I've put a lot of time in the "pre workout" ingredient area.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 09:32 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE View Post
It's main ingredient is L-arginine aka N.O., which has been shown over and over to have 0 effect on the human body when taking orally. It's an NO product and anyone that does their homework on supplements wouldnt be spending money on that product.

If you think im wrong, please show me a study that proves otherwise we taken ORALLY. I have never seen one and i can provide many studies that show it does nothing.

I've put a lot of time in the "pre workout" ingredient area.
Are you saying....you take NO Canseco style, anally?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 11:49 PM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
Are you saying....you take NO Canseco style, anally?
I dont take it at all. It works in hospitals only intravenous.
Supplement companies take intravenous studies and use them in advertisement to take advantage of customers. Happens all the time.

Even when good researched items are used, most of the time when they're put in a supplement it's way under dosed from what the study was done on, yet the study will still be used for marketing...

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
I ordered some to try it out it was only 2.99 for 2 wk bottle. But have to call this no. 18774927243 to cancle the next order
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
Hey grey horse what good diet pill do u offer. Not for me for the lady
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 08:33 AM
I Я Invizabul
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 4,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINCOLN BOY View Post
Hey grey horse what good diet pill do u offer. Not for me for the lady
Pokulski-Blatz is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokulski-Blatz View Post
What is that cheese
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 10:21 AM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINCOLN BOY View Post
Hey grey horse what good diet pill do u offer. Not for me for the lady
For her if she doesnt want too strong of strong stimulant i would go with the CytoLean V2. It's on sale right now as well. It's a great product and you cant find it cheaper.
My wifes using it too.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
English Master
 
LINCOLN BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,136
Do you just sell over the internet, do u not have a local store
LINCOLN BOY is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 11:09 AM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINCOLN BOY View Post
Do you just sell over the internet, do u not have a local store
warehouse is in Mckinney. The address is on the website under "contact us"

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Hired Hand
 
Big A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 36,166
I can't believe that NO products are still legally allowed to be marketed and sold the way that they are. It's flat out fraud.

Raven 2006 Yamaha R6S

"If it has horsepower or tits you're gonna have trouble with it eventually..."
Big A is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Very Interesting
 
The Big Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Around the World
Posts: 9,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven View Post
I can't believe that NO products are still legally allowed to be marketed and sold the way that they are. It's flat out fraud.
You mean like 90 percent of the supplement market?

Sorry Greg

no offense

You're only as strong as you allow yourself to be...

Lockout Workout Forums and Supplements
The Big Matt is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Lifer
 
Stangin4Lyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Matt View Post
You mean like 90 percent of the supplement market?
You don't say???
Stangin4Lyfe is offline  
post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
I wouldnt say anywhere near 90%, however the consumer should be doing a little research on their own.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-13-2010, 11:09 PM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE View Post
If you think im wrong, please show me a study that proves otherwise we taken ORALLY. I have never seen one and i can provide many studies that show it does nothing.
Could you please provide one, I'd like to read it.

Fobra is offline  
post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fobra View Post
Could you please provide one, I'd like to read it.
The rationale for putting L-Arginine in Pre-Workouts is based on research using INTRAVENOUS L-Arginine at doses of 20-30 grams. Not oral intake usually in the range of 2-3 grams.

Studies directly comparing intravenous and oral L-arginine indicate NO effect of oral L-arginine on vasodilatation, possibly attributed to variance in oral L-arginine bioavailability. (Bode-Boger et al., 1998)
Additionally, studies involving oral intake of L-arginine at dosages from 10-20grams indicate NO benefit with regards to increasing circulating NO or enhancing blood flow (Adams et al., 1995; Chin-Dusting et al., 1996; Robinson et al., 2003)

So if 20 grams does nothing, how is 1-3 grams in todays pre workouts going to do ANYTHING???

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-15-2010, 12:28 AM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE View Post
The rationale for putting L-Arginine in Pre-Workouts is based on research using INTRAVENOUS L-Arginine at doses of 20-30 grams. Not oral intake usually in the range of 2-3 grams.

Studies directly comparing intravenous and oral L-arginine indicate NO effect of oral L-arginine on vasodilatation, possibly attributed to variance in oral L-arginine bioavailability. (Bode-Boger et al., 1998)
Additionally, studies involving oral intake of L-arginine at dosages from 10-20grams indicate NO benefit with regards to increasing circulating NO or enhancing blood flow (Adams et al., 1995; Chin-Dusting et al., 1996; Robinson et al., 2003)

So if 20 grams does nothing, how is 1-3 grams in todays pre workouts going to do ANYTHING???
Interesting, although I don't take it for that reason. I take an arginine and ornithine supp from NOW Sports, not for the "pump" perse, but my trainer told me it helps with the delivery of nutrients or something along those lines. He had a better explanation that made sense when he explained it to me. The main reason people feel the "pump" on pre workout drinks is because of the caffeine and sugar. He takes about 6/day, I just take 2 pills at night with some BCAA's and Cyclin (ZMA complex) before bed.

Fobra is offline  
post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-15-2010, 09:48 AM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
This product will storm the market in two weeks. Nothing over the counter will deliver nutrients to the cells better than SLINShot.


Here's a little teaser that has some promising blood work samples.

Figure 1. The effects of a single dose (1000mg) of SLINShot on plasma creatine clearance.




Note: Average plasma creatine concentration following intake of creatine monohydrate (60 mg/kg body weight), preceded 15 minutes earlier by ingestion of 1000mg SLINshot, the equivalent of one serving. Subjects were 11 young, healthy men.
Adapted from Jager et al. JISSN 2008, 5(Suppl 1):P4


and there's more....


Table 1 provides values for each time point of sample collection for both placebo and SLINshot trials. The area under the curve (AUC) is also presented, which uses a mathematically model to represent the sum over the course of the one hour post ingestion period. Percent difference values between placebo and SLINshot trials are included for each time point, as well as for AUC. Figure 2 provides a graphical representation of the data. As can be seen, oral intake of SLINshot provides for blood glucose disposal effects in healthy men.


Table 1 and Figure 2. Effect of SLINshot on blood glucose concentration following an OGTT.

Time Sub X Placebo Sub X SLINshot 1000mg Sub X % difference
Pre 86 79 7.5
15 min 90 83 8.5
30 min 126 84 33.6
45 min 114 94 18.0
60 min 104 86 17.5

AUC 425 342 19.5

Time Sub Y Placebo Sub Y SLINshot 2000mg Sub Y % difference
Pre 91 75 17.4
15 min 120 107 11.0
30 min 118 112 5.0
45 min 173 117 32.1
60 min 160 96 39.9

AUC 536 421 21.5






Pertaining to the above, while only two subjects were used in this initial experiment, it cannot be concluded that all individuals will respond in the same manner. Additional research, using a sample of 10-20 individuals, is needed to provide additional support for these initial findings. This is true for all herbal forms of glucose regulatory agents recommended for use in human subjects (Cefalu et al., 2008b).

Logs will be next...

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-15-2010, 11:32 PM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Never heard of plasma creatine. Been using Kre-Alkalyn for several weeks now and really like that, definitely notice that my strength goes up big time.

Fobra is offline  
post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:19 AM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fobra View Post
Never heard of plasma creatine. Been using Kre-Alkalyn for several weeks now and really like that, definitely notice that my strength goes up big time.
That's creatine levels in the blood. You're missing the study, it's not a creatine product it's an insulin mimetic. The study shows results of plasma creatine after taking SLINShot. It depletes the sugars so your body can absorb the nutrients it needs for rapid muscle growth.

This is why insulin is the most powerful hormone in the human body, much stronger than testosterone.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 11:31 PM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE View Post
That's creatine levels in the blood. You're missing the study, it's not a creatine product it's an insulin mimetic. The study shows results of plasma creatine after taking SLINShot. It depletes the sugars so your body can absorb the nutrients it needs for rapid muscle growth.

This is why insulin is the most powerful hormone in the human body, much stronger than testosterone.
Interesting, currently I use a cup of Central Market apple juice with a scoop of protein powder from Gentec with a serving of glutamine. It sounds like what your saying is that this SLINshot would replace applejuice's affect in my case (or some other fast carb like it) on spiking insulin post workout?

<---excuse me for the ignorance, I really am trying to understand this as I'm getting ready to do the Texas Shredder in Austin as a novice and this may become a part of my supp arsenal

Also, where did you get this information from?


Last edited by Fobra; 03-16-2010 at 11:40 PM.
Fobra is offline  
post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 05:11 PM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fobra View Post
Interesting, currently I use a cup of Central Market apple juice with a scoop of protein powder from Gentec with a serving of glutamine. It sounds like what your saying is that this SLINshot would replace applejuice's affect in my case (or some other fast carb like it) on spiking insulin post workout?

<---excuse me for the ignorance, I really am trying to understand this as I'm getting ready to do the Texas Shredder in Austin as a novice and this may become a part of my supp arsenal

Also, where did you get this information from?
I will post up the full white sheet from our studies and Dr. Bloomer in a couple days. It will break it down for you and explain everything.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 10:33 PM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE View Post
I will post up the full white sheet from our studies and Dr. Bloomer in a couple days. It will break it down for you and explain everything.
Cool!

Will there be more tests than 2 subjects to draw more empirical data? It also mentions a form of glucose which sounds like waxy maize.

Fobra is offline  
post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2010, 02:13 AM
Rookie
 
GRAYHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Gym
Posts: 14,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fobra View Post
Cool!

Will there be more tests than 2 subjects to draw more empirical data? It also mentions a form of glucose which sounds like waxy maize.
It's just one ingred. an insulin mimetic that has never been seen in the supplement industry.

87 LX Hatch -- Project 302 [email protected] -- 4 Sale
89 4 eye coupe (Grayhorse)
07 Harley Truck S/C
08 G-37S
LockoutSupplements.com
GRAYHORSE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome