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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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A book you should all read.

Whether you're interested in running or not.

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidde.../dp/0307266303
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 05:42 PM
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Whether you're interested in running or not.

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidde.../dp/0307266303
I had to get it. Looks interesting.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 08:36 PM
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Bought.

Will update after reading.


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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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I had to get it. Looks interesting.
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Bought.

Will update after reading.
You two were the reason I started this thread.

I have more time now, so here's a brief synopsis: Big dude (6'4, 250+) has nagging injuries from running, talks to Drs, they tell him to stop running. He's not satisfied with that answer, so he starts searching. Finds Aztec descendants who have near orgies on homemade corn beer, then run for 2 days straight. Along the way he learns the truths about humans and running, meets barefoot freaks and party kids, and ends up being able to run 50+ miles at a time.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 09:53 PM
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You two were the reason I started this thread.

I have more time now, so here's a brief synopsis: Big dude (6'4, 250+) has nagging injuries from running, talks to Drs, they tell him to stop running. He's not satisfied with that answer, so he starts searching. Finds Aztec descendants who have near orgies on homemade corn beer, then run for 2 days straight. Along the way he learns the truths about humans and running, meets barefoot freaks and party kids, and ends up being able to run 50+ miles at a time.
Yeah, the interview with him was pretty cool.

"They never even know how long a race will be until they step up to the starting line—the distance is only determined in a last-minute bout of negotiating and could stretch anywhere from 50 miles to 200-plus."

That's amazing.



I have a feeling I'll transition back into more running soon with the time change. I just don't like riding when it's dark.
(gotta go get the ankle x-rayed tomorrow though... so it might be a bit longer )


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Last edited by Strychnine; 11-22-2009 at 10:03 PM.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2009, 12:48 PM
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Looks pretty good. I might pick it up as well.

Don't talk about it! Be about it!
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2009, 08:17 AM
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Holy shit 200 miles!
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-28-2009, 10:57 PM
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The book came in days ago but w/ Thanksgiving stuff going on I didn't have a chance to get to it. I finally opened it up this evening after the TTU / Baylor game. I figured it would be good motivation for the ride @ White Rock in the morning.

About 8 chapters in right now and it's pretty interesting.

For some reason this passage irked me. There's a bit of artistic license put to use in the oversimplified reasoning here (obviously the downfall of the runner was not totally caused by shitty diet), but I understand what he's getting at so it's all good... starch addicted locals or not.
"There's a village called Mesa de la Yerababenua," he said. "Do you know it, Salvador?"
"Mm-hm," Salvador murmured.
"Do you know what happened to it?"
"Mm-HM," Salvador replied, his inflection conveying "Hell, yeah."
"Many of the best runners were from Yerababuean," Angel said. "They had a very good trail which would let them cover a lot of distance in one day, much farther than you could get to from here."
Unfortunately, the trail was so good that the Mexican government eventually decided to slick it up with asphalt and turn it into a road. Trucks began showing up in Yerababuena, and in them, foods them Tarahumara had rarely eaten - soda, chocolate, rice, sugar, butter, flour. The people of Yerababeuna developed a taste for starch and treats, but needed money to buy them, so instead of working their own fields, they began hitching rides to Guachochi, where they worked as dishwashers and day laborers, or selling junk crafts at the train station in Divisadero.
"That was twenty years ago," Angel said. "Now, there are no runners in Yerababuena."




Is there any truth [read: legit science] to the chia seed stuff? Maybe some homemade iskiate is in order?


.

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Last edited by Strychnine; 11-28-2009 at 11:21 PM.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 08:24 AM
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OK, I got through 15 chapters before I had to force myself to go to bed.

I knew just a little of the history of ultras, starting with the Western States horse race being completed by a guy on foot, then evolving... but I'm up to the part where Dr. Vigil was on the course at Leadville in '94 watching and the two Tarahamura runners just picked up their pacer and headed back up the hill at 60 miles chasing down Ann... and were laughing about it.

The history about Zatopek (the Czech runner) is also amazing.


"Ask nothing from your running, and you'll get more than you ever imagined."


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Audentes Fortuna Juvat

Last edited by Strychnine; 11-29-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Strychnine View Post
The book came in days ago but w/ Thanksgiving stuff going on I didn't have a chance to get to it. I finally opened it up this evening after the TTU / Baylor game. I figured it would be good motivation for the ride @ White Rock in the morning.

About 8 chapters in right now and it's pretty interesting.

For some reason this passage irked me. There's a bit of artistic license put to use in the oversimplified reasoning here (obviously the downfall of the runner was not totally caused by shitty diet), but I understand what he's getting at so it's all good... starch addicted locals or not.
"There's a village called Mesa de la Yerababenua," he said. "Do you know it, Salvador?"
"Mm-hm," Salvador murmured.
"Do you know what happened to it?"
"Mm-HM," Salvador replied, his inflection conveying "Hell, yeah."
"Many of the best runners were from Yerababuean," Angel said. "They had a very good trail which would let them cover a lot of distance in one day, much farther than you could get to from here."
Unfortunately, the trail was so good that the Mexican government eventually decided to slick it up with asphalt and turn it into a road. Trucks began showing up in Yerababuena, and in them, foods them Tarahumara had rarely eaten - soda, chocolate, rice, sugar, butter, flour. The people of Yerababeuna developed a taste for starch and treats, but needed money to buy them, so instead of working their own fields, they began hitching rides to Guachochi, where they worked as dishwashers and day laborers, or selling junk crafts at the train station in Divisadero.
"That was twenty years ago," Angel said. "Now, there are no runners in Yerababuena."



Is there any truth [read: legit science] to the chia seed stuff? Maybe some homemade iskiate is in order?
I've made iskiate, my local farmers market has chia seeds, and I haven't noticed it to be some super stim. It has helped my regularity, and the extra omega-3s won't hurt.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 06:35 PM
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I've made iskiate, my local farmers market has chia seeds, and I haven't noticed it to be some super stim. It has helped my regularity, and the extra omega-3s won't hurt.
So, tell me... how many barefoot runs have you been on ?



Sidenote: Just hit chapter 25 (on top of the bus in Creel), want to nail Jenn Shelton.



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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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So, tell me... how many barefoot runs have you been on ?



Sidenote: Just hit chapter 25 (on top of the bus in Creel), want to nail Jenn Shelton.

None, although it is intriguing. Closest I would ever come is VFFs.


And yes, I do, too.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 07:18 PM
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None, although it is intriguing. Closest I would ever come is VFFs.


And yes, I do, too.
Have you ever tried the VFFs? Or maybe Frees?


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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:45 PM
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OK, just finished it.

Damn.

Inspiring, entertaining and above all, thought provoking. Damn fine read, sir. Thanks for the recommendation. Awesome narrative with a good amount of history and some physiology and anthropology thrown in... even some delving into the human psyche. Can't beat it.
As soon as my ankle is healed up I'll definitely have some new things to think about on the first run in a while.

BTW, I'm a sucker for quotes, and this one is just awesome:
"I always start these events with very lofty goals, like I'm going to do something special. And after a point of body deterioration, the goals get evaluated down to basically where I am now - where the best I can hope for is to avoid throwing up on my shoes."

- Nuclear engineer and ultrarunner Ephraim Romesberg, sixty-five miles into the Badwater Ultramarathon

Also, when they were making their way from the meeting point to Urique, and Luis sprinted ahead to get a pic of Arnulfo and Scott then commented, "This one is going to make me cry when I get back home. It's like getting Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle in the same shot."... I had to find it. Here it is if you were curious.



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Audentes Fortuna Juvat

Last edited by Strychnine; 11-29-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 12:32 AM
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well i guess it's just me
my dad gave me this book , both of us being runners
i used to run cross country in HS

anyways i thought it was getting too boring about 1/4 of the way in, not developing fast enough - too much fucking character buildup.
So I skipped to a little farther than halfway and it started getting better.
I set it down about 3/4 of the way through, too bored to keep reading it.
I guess at some point i just got so uninterested i just didn't care how it ended with the ultimate race or whatever.

It might be the way the author writes... I just find it takes him too long to get any where likes its a high school book report - wordy, with a lot of unecessary info about the characters
the book itself starts to become the ultramarathon , just to get to the good shit.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
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OK, just finished it.

Damn.

Inspiring, entertaining and above all, thought provoking. Damn fine read, sir. Thanks for the recommendation. Awesome narrative with a good amount of history and some physiology and anthropology thrown in... even some delving into the human psyche. Can't beat it.
As soon as my ankle is healed up I'll definitely have some new things to think about on the first run in a while.

BTW, I'm a sucker for quotes, and this one is just awesome:
"I always start these events with very lofty goals, like I'm going to do something special. And after a point of body deterioration, the goals get evaluated down to basically where I am now - where the best I can hope for is to avoid throwing up on my shoes."

- Nuclear engineer and ultrarunner Ephraim Romesberg, sixty-five miles into the Badwater Ultramarathon

Also, when they were making their way from the meeting point to Urique, and Luis sprinted ahead to get a pic of Arnulfo and Scott then commented, "This one is going to make me cry when I get back home. It's like getting Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle in the same shot."... I had to find it. Here it is if you were curious.

Mine should be here today or tomorrow, still trying to finish up the new Stephen King book, it's like 1200 freakin pages, but good. I should have ordered it from amazon, but I got it from walmart.com with a left over gift card I had.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Have you ever tried the VFFs? Or maybe Frees?
Frees are all I've worn for running/workout shoes for years, since they came out. I would give the VFFs a shot, just to test my foot and lower leg strength. Plus, I've read enough supporting evidence for barefooted running naturally correcting improper form, and I'm curious how my stride would change, if any.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-17-2009, 09:35 PM
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Finally got to it. What a great book. Once I started I couldn't put it down. It really makes a compelling case for BFR. I might go try some frees to start with, or I might just try doing my warmup barefoot and my cool down.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-2009, 12:34 PM
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Mine should be here today or tomorrow, still trying to finish up the new Stephen King book, it's like 1200 freakin pages, but good. I should have ordered it from amazon, but I got it from walmart.com with a left over gift card I had.
I just finished the Stephen King book, pretty good.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 11:42 PM
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0104122310.htm

Quote:
Running Shoes May Cause Damage to Knees, Hips and Ankles, New Study Suggests

ScienceDaily (Jan. 4, 2010)
Knee osteoarthritis (OA) accounts for more disability in the elderly than any other disease. Running, although it has proven cardiovascular and other health benefits, can increase stresses on the joints of the leg. In a study published in the December 2009 issue of PM&R: The journal of injury, function and rehabilitation, researchers compared the effects on knee, hip and ankle joint motions of running barefoot versus running in modern running shoes. They concluded that running shoes exerted more stress on these joints compared to running barefoot or walking in high-heeled shoes.

Sixty-eight healthy young adult runners (37 women), who run in typical, currently available running shoes, were selected from the general population. None had any history of musculoskeletal injury and each ran at least 15 miles per week. A running shoe, selected for its neutral classification and design characteristics typical of most running footwear, was provided to all runners. Using a treadmill and a motion analysis system, each subject was observed running barefoot and with shoes. Data were collected at each runner's comfortable running pace after a warm-up period.

The researchers observed increased joint torques at the hip, knee and ankle with running shoes compared with running barefoot. Disproportionately large increases were observed in the hip internal rotation torque and in the knee flexion and knee varus torques. An average 54% increase in the hip internal rotation torque, a 36% increase in knee flexion torque, and a 38% increase in knee varus torque were measured when running in running shoes compared with barefoot.

These findings confirm that while the typical construction of modern-day running shoes provides good support and protection of the foot itself, one negative effect is the increased stress on each of the 3 lower extremity joints. These increases are likely caused in large part by an elevated heel and increased material under the medial arch, both characteristic of today's running shoes.

Writing in the article, lead author D. Casey Kerrigan, MD, JKM Technologies LLC, Charlottesville, VA, and co-investigators state, "Remarkably, the effect of running shoes on knee joint torques during running (36%-38% increase) that the authors observed here is even greater than the effect that was reported earlier of high-heeled shoes during walking (20%-26% increase). Considering that lower extremity joint loading is of a significantly greater magnitude during running than is experienced during walking, the current findings indeed represent substantial biomechanical changes." Dr. Kerrigan concludes, "Reducing joint torques with footwear completely to that of barefoot running, while providing meaningful footwear functions, especially compliance, should be the goal of new footwear designs."


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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
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Yeah, after reading up on it, I ditched my Sauconys and got some Nike Free 3.0s. My next step is the VFF's. Just have to go find somewhere that carries them to physically try a pair on.

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-06-2010, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Not having run in VFFs, I will say that after really focusing on form, it doesn't really matter what shoe I have on, running properly is much easier. I'm intrigued by VFFs, but haven't been motivated to purchase a pair yet.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-11-2010, 09:15 PM
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I just finished the book... I thought it was great.

I still don't agree with barefoort or VFF being the answer for ME, but I'm a big guy like the author and the bottom of my feet are very tender. In the past I have trained on the grass barefoot, but I have been in injury-free for the most part. I am mostly a forefoot striker and have been told my mechanics work well for being big (6'2" & 225).

Maybe after this marathon (2/14/10) I will give it a dedicated try to see if I can tell any difference from shoes to VFF.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-12-2010, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Kenny, have you tried any of the 'minimalist' shoes? Frees/NBMT100/XC waffle flats? Might be a stepping stone to VFFs or barefooting.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 08:27 AM
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Kenny, have you tried any of the 'minimalist' shoes? Frees/NBMT100/XC waffle flats? Might be a stepping stone to VFFs or barefooting.
Not since running "again." I ran in high school but then I didn't run for 15 years, and in high school I barely wore any shoe when on the track. For everything else, I wore Asics flats. Since starting again, I have tried about 10 different shoes, but I have settled on the Saucony Guide. The only problems I have from running is when I go over 15, and I think that is a breakdown of my form and not because the shoe is performing less.

I am going to try going barefoot, starting with 1/8-1/4 mile every other day for 2 weeks, then 1/2 mile for 2 weeks, etc.

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